Star Wars: Fall of the Order [Concluded]

I don't think lynching Chaotix is a good idea either.
Best we'll lynch a Sith master. Worst we'll lose the most powerful ally.

Lets reduce our loss to minimum by not doing anything tonight.
Lynch those suspects who survived by force breath again then we'll advance to victory.

Originally Posted by Chaotix

All right then. Here is the plan.

This is IMPORTANT for all players to read, as I am dictating your NIGHT ACTIONS.

Tonight, you are ALL to attack Double A.
You are all to use ONLY your LIGHTSABER.
You are to use TWO FORMS, so I can be sure you are not doing any other actions.
You are to PM ME the COLOR of your lightsaber and the FORMS you are using tonight. I don't care about the other forms you have, I want only the ones you are using tonight.

Everyone does this. There are no exceptions but Double A himself, and I suggest Double A refrain from doing anything or investigate if he thinks he will survive.

This way, in the write-up tomorrow, I will be able to tell exactly who followed the orders.

Anybody who doesn't follow orders is to be considered a Sith, as there will be no other explanation for any other kills. So, if you're not a Sith, follow the orders, otherwise the whole plan will fall apart. If you are a Sith, I couldn't care less because I will catch you either way.

If everybody follows the orders, I will know for certain that the Sith can use alt-color lightsabers, and I will know how to proceed. In addition, we will have prevented any night-kills except for the suspect Double A.
If the Sith disobey the orders, we will know for sure who they are.

Either way, we win. Do not fail me.

This plan is pointless for the reason pevergreen gave. In my experience, late-game exuberance like the kind you exhibit here is the sign of a mafioso who believes they have the game locked down.

Andres also has a good point. How the did Chaotix know that Beskar was Sith on N1? No way he could know if he was a real vigilante. Which means it was a lucky guess. Which means he was picking a random target on N1. So, why didn't Chaotix continue with random killings after N1? If he had no problems with it N1, he shouldn't have had problems with it on N2. Indeed, he should have felt vindicated by his method and continued. But he didn't. Beskar was a very specific and defined target and Chaotix did not make random kills after Beskar, which means Chaotix targeted him for a non-random reason. Which means Chaotix knew Beskar was Sith on N1.

Yes, kill Chaotix tonight. Then lynch him when you fail. Anyone who can use Drain Knowledge should drain Chaotix, and specify Force Breath as the ability you want to pull.

Originally Posted by TinCow

Andres also has a good point. How the did Chaotix know that Beskar was Sith on N1? No way he could know if he was a real vigilante. Which means it was a lucky guess. Which means he was picking a random target on N1. So, why didn't Chaotix continue with random killings after N1? It doesn't make sense, no matter what happened.

It would make sense if it was done in order to give him the perfect cover for the remainder of the game.

"Look, I killed a Sith."

There's the unwritten rule that mafia cannot kill mafia, but Sith killing each other is their way, so it would make perfect sense in this game.

I have no solid proof but I think Chaotix is innocent.
Information I read said that we started with one dark jedi who has resistance against the Sith.
If thats the case, he is not the Sith Master we are after. We shouldn't kill Dark Jedis until we kill all the Siths.

And his picture looks like Luke Skywalker.

Chaotix is very scummy. Since he became GM he has said the following:

Originally Posted by Chaotix

I am a Dark Jedi, but I am not a typical Dark Jedi. My goal is, and has been since the beginning, to kill all the Sith. I can achieve this goal by any means necessary. I have resistance to the Dark Side, so I can use Dark powers without danger of falling and my victory conditions changing.

The above is intended to give Chaotix an excuse for publicly using serious bad-mojo powers without getting lynched for it.

Originally Posted by Chaotix

First, the statement that the color of lightsabers used "doesn't matter" is not useful at all. It doesn't say at all why they don't matter. Basically, I think the statement was intended to say that there will be players who have the same lightsaber color, inevitably.

It doesn't say anything about red lightsabers, who are "always Sith". The problem there is we don't know if Sith always use red lightsabers. I have a way which I can determine this for sure, but I am going to need all of your complete cooperation for tonight.

Chaotix appears obsessed with lightsaber colors as some kind of awesome method of finding Sith. See below for why this is scummy.

Originally Posted by Chaotix

My ultimate goal is to determine who all of the Sith are in one fell swoop. I have a plan to do that tonight, but you must all follow my orders when I give them.

Convenient that Chaotix only proposed his foolproof plan to expose all of the Sith at once after he becomes GM and the town is only a night or two away from extinction.

Originally Posted by Chaotix

I have to say, you are now being less-than-helpful, pevergreen. I will enjoy getting to say I won this game for the town despite you hindering me the whole way.

Braggadocio. Chaotix is extremely confident at a time when the situation looks very dire from the town's perspective.

Originally Posted by Chaotix

I haven't won it yet, of course, pevergreen. You were helpful for knowing who Zan Finnay was, I'll give you that. Mostly it was me and Ignoramus doing the dirty work this whole time.

More braggadocio.

Originally Posted by Chaotix

All right then. Here is the plan.

As stated before, a silly plan that won't prove anything.

Originally Posted by Chaotix

If everybody follows the orders, I will know for certain that the Sith can use alt-color lightsabers, and I will know how to proceed. In addition, we will have prevented any night-kills except for the suspect Double A.
If the Sith disobey the orders, we will know for sure who they are.

More obsession with lightsaber colors. Sith haven't used red lightsabers in kills for a very long time. It's perfectly obvious that they can use alt-color lightsabers. Chaotix's focus on them as some kind of miracle method of Sith-detection is not only erroneous, the high level of importance he gives to it is actively scummy and looks like an attempt to use some kind of real 'evidence' to direct all town actions.

Originally Posted by Chaotix

Either way, we win. Do not fail me.

Even more braggadocio.

IMO, Chaotix is the Sith Master. The way he's setting up this ridiculous night attack plan on Double A, and specifically ordering everyone to only use sabers makes me think Double A is his saber-focused Sith Apprentice.

Another quote from his new GM stuff:

If you fall much further to the dark side of the force, you will become immensely powerful.

No vigs.

Lynch csargo again.

Take it from there.

All these plans sound splendid.

pevergreen, I'd like to know where you found that Sith can use two sets of two actions.

It sure doesn't say so in the Holocron, and even I am only capable of using two actions per night, maximum.

To Ignoramus:

ATPG has stated himself all of the characters in this game are completely new characters, but have been created from breaking down the names of existing characters. As an example: Jacin Sky. Jacin is the name of Han Solo's son, and Sky is the first syllable of Skywalker.

I am not surprised that the name Bane Anded comes from another character named Bane. It has nothing to do with my alignment.

To TinCow:

I have told you already what my victory conditions are. I have asked you to look at my actions throughout the game. I have the support of Beefy and Cecil, and pevergreen is no longer trying to help the town, as he has stated himself. If you are having second thoughts now, there is nothing I can do for you. You need to trust me to win, or you WILL lose for sure.

I am not the Sith Master or the Apprentice. If you think you can beat BOTH of them without me, you are sorely mistaken. They both likely have Force Breath, and none of you have night attacks powerful enough to scratch them. You will be dead before you get both of them, and likely before you get one. You NEED me to help you kill the Sith, because the Master is likely even stronger than me.

Your choices are basically to trust me or to die.

Kage had bunches of investigation results, and yet was killing people.

Originally Posted by Andres

Is the main reason for not lynching Chaotix that he attacked a Sith Apprentice Night 1?

If so, food of thought: if Sith Master is allowed to attack his own Apprentice (or vice versa), then attacking my partner is exactly what I would do. Not N1, of course, because that would be too obvious. Then again, and I know I'm entering the domain of WIFOM here, that would be exactly what a very ballsy mafioso would do.

Anyway, somehow, following the lead of a Dark Side Jedi who was keen to kill on the first night, doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

On night one there were four attacks. A Sith who was probably Beskar (same saber form as when he defended later on) used a double attack on someone. Another Sith, presumably the Sith Lord, used a single attack. Someone with a blue saber (probably Kagemusha) used a single attack. And Chaotix used a single attack on Beskar.

I know I was the first one to bring the idea up, but since actually reading the write-up for comprehension it does not look likely that Chaotix could be the Sith Lord. He'd have to be able to attack two separate people, yes, but also probably investigate a third for susceptibility, because he'd know he was losing his apprentice. Is *that* possible from the Holocron?

The rest, the Dark Jedi bit, there's something I keep forgetting to ask. Cecil, what was YOUR special role?

Originally Posted by Chaotix

pevergreen, I'd like to know where you found that Sith can use two sets of two actions.

It sure doesn't say so in the Holocron, and even I am only capable of using two actions per night, maximum.

In the first game, late in the game both the Jedi GM and the Sith Master were given the ability to target two different targets with two abilities on each target. I see no reason to believe it wouldn't be the same here.

Your choices are basically to trust me or to die.

More braggadocio. Convenient that you've become so crucially important to everything so late in the game. Feel like explaining why you 'randomly' vigged Beskar on N1, but then never did another random kill?

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Kage had bunches of investigation results, and yet was killing people.

-Kage was not killing people every night. Most nights usually have only two clear Sith kills.
-Kage was able to kill most players with a single action using his Force Vortex/Destruction/whatever, leaving plenty of room for investigations.

I see no evidence for anybody being able to use more than two actions per night. Anything you claim can be done with two actions per night and powerful single-action Sith attacks.

As to the claim that we know for certain the Sith use alt-color lightsabers- we DO NOT.

The Sith started killing with Force Powers as soon as they got them, and that is why we haven't seen red lightsabers for a long time. The higher-tier force powers are simply more effective than lightsabers, so there was no sense in them using them.

I am surprised. You were all willing to follow me for the lynch, but now the night comes by and you all turn your backs. I have one lightsaber/form PM so far. If you do not do this, we are set back another night.

Originally Posted by TinCow

In the first game, late in the game both the Jedi GM and the Sith Master were given the ability to target two different targets with two abilities on each target. I see no reason to believe it wouldn't be the same here.



More braggadocio. Convenient that you've become so crucially important to everything so late in the game. Feel like explaining why you 'randomly' vigged Beskar on N1, but then never did another random kill?

I haven't gotten that ability, yet, if it exists, and the Holocron suggests it doesn't. Why would the Sith Master have it?

Why am I crucial? I am the only player left who started as a Knight. Everyone else is at least 3 or 4 rounds behind me in terms of abilities. I have powerful killing abilities that can get rid of the Sith faster than having lynch the Force Breath out of them. You are simply not willing to see me on your side, so you will see something suspicious in whatever I post.

My vig kill on Beskar was "random" in the sense that I didn't know he was the Sith before I did it. In that sense, everyone I have attacked has been random, save for the second time I killed Beskar.

I won't argue with you any more, TinCow, because it would be pointless. You are only out for my blood, and not willing to see reason.

Originally Posted by Chaotix

As to the claim that we know for certain the Sith use alt-color lightsabers- we DO NOT.

So, assuming we do know they can use alt-color lightsabers (as a result of your plan for tonight), how exactly is that going to let you find all the Sith in a single night?

Originally Posted by Chaotix

My vig kill on Beskar was "random" in the sense that I didn't know he was the Sith before I did it. In that sense, everyone I have attacked has been random, save for the second time I killed Beskar.

Why didn't you make further random kills after N1?

I think he did, but they just didn't succeed right?

Originally Posted by TinCow

So, assuming we do know they can use alt-color lightsabers (as a result of your plan for tonight), how exactly is that going to let you find all the Sith in a single night?



Why didn't you make further random kills after N1?

We can assume they do use alt-color sabers if they follow my orders. In that case, we prevented THEM from killing for the night, and I can look at write-up evidence to find when lightsaber kills coincided with a drop in Sith force kills, and find the Sith that way.

I didn't make kills because people thought I was some sort of serial killer, and I didn't want to establish that reputation. I also was warned I would fall to the Dark Side if I killed innocents, and by that point I didn't want to be investigated and lynched for that, either. Now everyone knows that investigations are not foolproof, so there is no danger of that. Now that it is known that Dark Jedi are not anti-town, I am comfortable with being open with my alignment.

EDIT: And as Sasaki said, every purple lightsaber attack in a write-up is me. Most of them failed.

Originally Posted by Chaotix

EDIT: And as Sasaki said, every purple lightsaber attack in a write-up is me. Most of them failed.

Hmmm... that shows you attacked Rebel Jeb on N4 as well, which is... believable under those circumstances. I am also seeing your attacks on N1 and N4 along with two Sith attacks on both nights, as well as two Sith attacks on N3. N2 is hard to figure out, as there are two attacks but neither is clearly identifiable as Sith. Could possibly be a single Sith attack and perhaps one from Kage. I do believe the Sith started out with a single kill each, so that would seem to substantiate your alibi. I still have difficulty buying just how lucky you got on N1, but I will withdraw my FoS for now and ponder the situation some more.

In the meantime, I suggest you all send in the orders I gave, and send those PMs to me. No matter what, if everyone acts in unison then the Sith are caught.

I will post the results I come up with from the combination of the write-up and the PMs I receive for every player publicly, so you can all draw the same conclusions tomorrow for yourselves, if that will help you to trust me.

Originally Posted by Chaotix

pevergreen, I'd like to know where you found that Sith can use two sets of two actions.

It sure doesn't say so in the Holocron, and even I am only capable of using two actions per night, maximum.

To Ignoramus:

ATPG has stated himself all of the characters in this game are completely new characters, but have been created from breaking down the names of existing characters. As an example: Jacin Sky. Jacin is the name of Han Solo's son, and Sky is the first syllable of Skywalker.

I am not surprised that the name Bane Anded comes from another character named Bane. It has nothing to do with my alignment.

To TinCow:

I have told you already what my victory conditions are. I have asked you to look at my actions throughout the game. I have the support of Beefy and Cecil, and pevergreen is no longer trying to help the town, as he has stated himself. If you are having second thoughts now, there is nothing I can do for you. You need to trust me to win, or you WILL lose for sure.

I am not the Sith Master or the Apprentice. If you think you can beat BOTH of them without me, you are sorely mistaken. They both likely have Force Breath, and none of you have night attacks powerful enough to scratch them. You will be dead before you get both of them, and likely before you get one. You NEED me to help you kill the Sith, because the Master is likely even stronger than me.

Your choices are basically to trust me or to die.

Chaotix you are starting to sound like me. Thats the spirit!

Originally Posted by Chaotix

-Kage was not killing people every night. Most nights usually have only two clear Sith kills.

Or maybe it was 3 kills a night.

Originally Posted by TinCow

Hmmm... that shows you attacked Rebel Jeb on N4 as well, which is... believable under those circumstances. I am also seeing your attacks on N1 and N4 along with two Sith attacks on both nights, as well as two Sith attacks on N2 and N3. I do believe the Sith started out with a single kill each, so that would seem to substantiate your alibi. I still have difficulty buying just how lucky you got on N1, but I will withdraw my FoS for now and ponder the situation some more.

He's been attacking 13 times and killed 3 (he have dropped the saber later on to use force attacks instead), so clearly you should keep him around to kill my master like he wants to.

Evidently, he's to weak to be my master, especially since toning down your attacks are impossible.

Chaotix have you been completely honest with the town so far?

Originally Posted by Andres

Instead of everybody attack Double A tonight, everybody should attack Chaotix

Nah. But it's a good suggestion!

Chaotix; Have you ever been attacked by the Sith?

EDIT: I thought of a flaw in your plan; You cannot be sure everyone has the ability to attack. Especially not with a saber.

Originally Posted by Renata

Cecil, what was YOUR special role?

The PM was rather ambigious beyond "You're so crazy strong with the light side, you have Force Ghost from day 1! You could be the Chosen One!" I'm thinking that meant I was the strongest with the light side out of everyone, balanced by having to start out as a lowly initiate."

Tincow -

1. Holocron information provided by Joooray some days ago confirms that there was a Jedi who started very close to the dark side, but with extra-strong resistance to being corrupted by the Sith. I don't find it suspicious at all the Chaotix claims this role, it's something that's been suspected for some time.

2. Is the only evidence against his plan that it contradicts rules in a different game? I think that makes it a 50/50 shot, personally. Can you fill me in about that ability, since I wasn't in that game?

3. Your issue with his timing is sensible, but there is another explanation: Chaotix just became a Grandmaster, and there is a leadership vacuum in the town. I think it makes just as much sense for him to act this way if he is on our side.

4. It is exacly *because* the town's situation is dire that Chaotix must display confidence! That's just simple leadership. I can't argue against you if you say your mafia experience tells you otherwise, but for the life of me I can't see why the leader of the town wouldn't want to act confidant as Chaotix is. Morale is a serious issue.

It's true that Chaotix is a better lynch target than most, but without real proof that this plan is flawed we should stick with people who have less evidence in their favor. He's the only one with a plan right now.

@pevergreen: Why not quite a little more?

If you fall much further to the dark side of the force, you will become immensely powerful.

Only you can control the Dark Side and use it as you wish. All others who fall this far to the Dark Side will become easy targets of Sith corruption. Only you can resist it.

Finally, I urge everyone to send the Grandmaster the PMs he has requested. We are fast approaching the eleventh hour, and we must have unity to see through it!

Cecil > pever.

Originally Posted by Cecil XIX

Tincow -

...

I've taken a good long look at the night actions from the first few nights, and the nature of the visible actions is such that I have difficultly believing that Chaotix could have pulled off a Sith attack on N1 and N4 in addition to his purple saber hits. Under those cricumstances, everything else that is scummy about Chaotix seems to be irrelevant, as he has an alibi.

I'm going to do my best to just keep my mouth shut from here on out, as I seem to be doing more harm than good when trying to find the Sith.

He might have been recruited after that, but I find it implausible.

Cecil, since you got access to the gm messages, could you please explain why Chaotix refers to my master as the other Sith? Does he know something the town does not?

Originally Posted by Chaotix

Diamondeye was attacked by the other Sith last night. I'd say he's the most trustworthy out of anyone still alive.

Originally Posted by Ignoramus

Had a change of heart - kill Chaotix!!!

I think this entry is pretty damning...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bane

It may be a coincidence, but I don't think so. We know that Chaotix has a purple sabre - so does Bane. His name is Bane Andred - maybe a coincidence, but unlikely. Also, when Chaotix approached me to form a vig group, he claimed he was the Bane of the Sith - his victory conditions were to eliminate the Sith, but at the same time he claimed to be Dark Jedi - a perfect cover for constant vig attacks. What is more - in all 15 of the Holocron entries there is no mention of the Bane of the Sith - the role Chaotix claims for himself.

Yesterday, I noticed his name. I was thinking Bane is a pretty weird name for a good guy, but I recalled Pizza said he randomized the names. So I wouldn't go by name alone, but it's sure as crap a good cause for suspicion on him. Your other points are very good, and I agree with this plan.

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

No vigs.

Lynch csargo again.

Take it from there.

No vigs would be a good idea, if vigs screw up it'll be that much easier for the Sith to win.

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

All these plans sound splendid.

I can't tell if Kage is still acting as Big Bad or if he's just spectating now... either way, I just know he's laughing.

Originally Posted by Diamondeye

Nah. But it's a good suggestion!

Chaotix; Have you ever been attacked by the Sith?

EDIT: I thought of a flaw in your plan; You cannot be sure everyone has the ability to attack. Especially not with a saber.

I don't think he has, the first purple lightsaber defender who survived was me I think.

And I'd prefer to live. If I die, though, I guess I could make a pretty cool Force Ghost.

Originally Posted by Beefy187

I have no solid proof but I think Chaotix is innocent.
Information I read said that we started with one dark jedi who has resistance against the Sith.
If thats the case, he is not the Sith Master we are after. We shouldn't kill Dark Jedis until we kill all the Siths.

And his picture looks like Luke Skywalker.

Why have you seen Chaotix's picture?