Star Wars: Fall of the Order [Information Thread]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Post 3355 of the Game Thread

Wall of the Commentary


Episode III: Revenge of the Puns

(or)

Hindsight is 20/20

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Day One Commentary: A bumpy start

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

vote: Kagemusha
Random.org rocks :)

Jarema starts things off with a wildly correct vote on Kagemusha.

Random.org LOOOOOOVES Kagemusha, as it has already blessed him with the most powerful role I've ever designed for any game, ever, ever.

Vote: pevergreen

Choxorn votes for a Jedi Master, oops. This guy is ranked third, after myself and Belisarius II.

Provided by random Gods: Vote: dcmort93

Kagemusha votes for a Jedi Padawan, the tenth highest ranked member of the Jedi order. A good vote for him!

Okay, I hadn't seen abstaining or no-lynch details anywhere.

Vote: pevergreen

Surely, you do not propose that the Sith can be reasoned with?

Another vote for pevergreen... not good. Will we lose a Master this early?

Vote: pevergreen just because I can.

Umm.....

Insert obligitory random.org vote: Khazaar

Sith lord votes for Khazaar, who is presently ranked 64th and is helpless to resist.


So far:

pevergreen: (3) Autolycus, Choxorn, Diana Abnoba
Raskolnikov: (3) Renata, ACIN, dcmort93
Sasaki: (3) Csargo, Belisarius II, Yaropolk

Unvote, Vote: pevergreen

I disapprove of bandwagoning.

He says as he bandwagons. Number 2 ranked Jedi votes for Number 3 ranked Jedi...

Vote : Ibn-Khaldun

I saw him eating a banana.

Now this is what mafia is all about. Watching Andres create the best reasons to vote for someone ever, ever.

DO U KNOW THE MUFFIN MAN!?!?!?!?

And that's what that whole muffin thing was about.

At about this point, massive counter bandwagon on Raskolnikov happens, to tie it up. Actually Raskol goes into the lead for a while. But it ends in a duel.


Raskolnikov: (7) Renata, ACIN, dcmort93, Yaseikhaan, ByzKnight, Ignoramus, pevergreen
pevergreen: (7) Autolycus, Choxorn, Diana Abnoba, Belisarius II, Winston Hughes, Raskolnikov, Sprig


DUEL:

pevergreen is a Jedi Master with no boosting abilities.
Raskolnikov is a Jedi Initiate, but is insanely powerful and innately talented with the lightsaber. He has no less than two ranks of boosted saber talent, pushing him up to the rank of Knight.

Battle meditation- boosts stamina and strength (lightsaber passive +1)
Force Valor- Adds 1 level to lightsaber combat and wins drawn force battles.

If Raskol had become a Padawan and advanced to Knight, he would have been as skilled as a Grandmaster with the blade. This would have happened by night 10, but this was not to be.

pevergreen barely defeats the initiate due to still-superior rank, and also the fact that as an Initiate, Raskol had no saber form and thus pevergreen had an inherent +1 advantage against him. Just as a Padawan with virtually any saber form, Raskol would have tied pevergreen and the duel would have ended in a draw. Also possible; Raskol wins the duel outright with the correct saber form.

Would have made pever poop his pants, I'm sure, to have lost to such a novice. But he wins the day, and Raskol goes down.

At this point, everyone knows that pevergreen is of better skill than a novice, and is thus one of the highest ranked people in the game, making him an early Sith target. Not a good start for the Jedi.... just flat out lynching Raskol would have been superior.

Day Two Commentary: Random wagon!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You can congratulate me for killing beskar.

As Sasaki has done in the past (like claiming detective in an early mafia game, to keep the real detective safe) Sasaki makes himself a target on purpose, because his original role was basically a worthless Initiate. Potentially powerful, but presently powerless.

A smart tactic, as it predictably fools the Sith, and these are good players. I honestly don't know why ANYONE believes a word Sasaki says, ever. I really hope that I would have scoffed at this claim, I tend to think he's always lying to me for some purpose, or even for no purpose. I think he just likes it, frankly. And frankly, I do this kind of stuff all the time too, so... I understand it.

This is a game of information and misinformation. Townies should really take their cues from Sasaki on this stuff; I certainly have. I outright admit to lying all the time as a townie. It makes blending in as mafia easier too, if you're ever caught lying. The only downside is the "cry wolf" effect, but frankly I don't care until people start treating my claims like the bogusness that they are half of the time.

Renata, Seon, Diamondeye, Tincow, and Psychonaut and Kagemusha IIRC all fell for this nonsense. These are not silly players, these are all players who should be admired and feared, taken in by Sasaki and his lies.

I dare someone to use their win the game ability now. Who are the Sith?

I wanted to see if anyone could guess, and make themselves famous.

No takers? You're no fun.

Vote: autolycus
Pure guesswork.

Autolycus is ranked 26th or so, and is basically an untrained Initiate still. But his vote doesn't prompt a reaction from Autolycus, so it is still a good vote.

Awesome write up, pizza.

So, can someone explain the case on DE, and why is Force Breath such a scummy force power?

Until then, I'll Vote: Andres, he claimed to be the Muffin Man loony, right?" I'd might be a role block, but the way I see it we can't have a crazy person like this running around without putting some scrutiny on him. And why so openly claim it?

Joooray decides to vote for the one guy in the game you can almost be guaranteed isn't Sith, due to my foolish hosting decisions.

Forgot his coffee that morning?

Nothing. Entertaining is serious business, btw.



Well, in the previous game, those with Force Breath proved to be unlynchable.

It's a pretty boring ability compared to my awesome powers.

Andres soft claims to be powerful, but, you just know this isn't serious.

Free info for the Sith? Meh, not sure it is wise.

You're voting for Andres because you think he didn't kill someone last night? That makes no sense at all.

Vote: Joooray

TC has a point. Sadly, Joooray is presently the 4th ranked Jedi. I am not sure lynching him is wise, though due to the promotion system it isn't exactly game losing either.

Sasaki is not to be trusted, he is only to be enjoyed.

I'm not feeling the DE bandwagon.

TC sort of redeems himself here by pointing out how silly Sasaki's claims are. And he uses the force to predict that DE is innocent.

That's only 2 reasons and the second one doesn't count, because you said the first was enough for you.

EDIT: ok, ok, enough of this silly nonsense. I can't expect you guys to blindly follow me.

The case against DiamondEye consists of several elements: thread behaviour, investigation results and gut feelings.

I hereby present you the case against DiamondEye:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ehm, sorry about that.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Here it is:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Andres' job in this game was to give the host something fun to read. For that, he succeeded.

Slysnake replaces Major Robert Dump.

Raskolnikov replaces TheFlax, as per his request.

Stuck in Pi may be replacing Winston Hughes due to the laptop difficulties, but I have to run it by him first.

First of many replacements. Flax is on a trip, and MRD signed up for the game in the assembly yard but never for when the game started; probably busy, so I give it to Slysnake who got omgwthpwned right away.

Vote: Sasaki

You've boasted to killing Beskar with the expectation for us to just believe you, and you've already tried to start two bandwagons on the same day.

I do believe, however, that Double A is acting scummy, and I'm tilting towards voting him instead.

Our top-ranked Jedi votes for the deceptive Sasaki. Neither Sasaki nor Double A are worth voting for, but at least no Masters, Knights, or Padawans die if they get lynched.

So anyway, for basically no reason Double A gets lynched.

Double A - (God Emperor, classical_hero, Frozen in Ice, Cute Wolf, Sasaki Kojiro, Tincow, Renata, Ibn-Khaldun, Diamondeye, robbiecon, Yaseikhaan)


Sadly, Double A was one of the 7 super-light-side starting Jedi. These were the ones who could make mistakes with vigilante kills and there would have to be a lot of them to cause a fall to the dark side.

These are not susceptible to being turned into Sith except through Mind Control, a power no one had yet.

This one was a mistake, as are most of the early game lynches.

I do not understand what these large bandwagons were all about. It makes it very difficult to reverse them, and once they get started, unless you picked a Sith, the Sith are in virtually zero danger.

You never want to give the Sith breathing room. Pressure is applied when they have to watch the game thread like a hawk, when there are only between 1 and 5 votes for someone. Once the wagon runs away, the Sith can take a nap. They barely need to comment, and they don't have to worry about their partners or themselves.

If the suspected gives a defense worth changing your mind, how do you suddenly reverse a huge wagon in the last couple hours of the round? You can't. You shoot yourself in the foot with large wagons.

Words of Wisdom: NO HUGE WAGONS.

When you make your choice, make sure the Sith cannot affect the tally, and put 3-4 additional votes on the lynchee, to make it impossible for the mafia to escape their fate. But otherwise, let the vote tally be close, in my opinion.

Let's say there are 5 votes on a Sith, and they are the lead candidate. Well that makes it awfully tempting for them to try to save their partner, as it isn't a foregone conclusion that their partner is dead. Perhaps they are successful in reversing that wagon, but later on, it is still determined that their partner was guilty.

Don't they look guilty now, too?

You close off a lot of tactical options when you create massive wagons.

Massive wagon = fail.

That's the bottom line. You can quote me on that.

Day Three Commentary: Random counter-wagon!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

well, im going to absically be gone for the next two days so im going to put down a vote now, even though i dont really have any leads. I'm going to put down vote:diana abnoba because she is usually pretty active but seems to have been very quiet this game.

Diana being quiet always has more to do with lack of time than her alignment. I know, because I've seen her be active as mafia, and quiet as town, and vice-versa. It always has to do with free time or lack thereof.

No. But you have.

Vote: Chaotix

Psychonaut votes for the Neutral Jedi, the one who killed his Apprentice.

This causes much lulz for the game host.

Vote: Sigurd Can you clarify what was your post concerning Sasaki about?

The Dark One votes for Sigurd, ranked 42 initiate. Sigurd doesn't react negatively, so Kagemusha escapes for another day.

Sometimes OMGUS is a good idea.

May I introduce you to the cases against God Emperor and ByzantineKnight?



[snip]

BK finally voted Cute Wolf, though he was under huge pressure. It was prolly judicious choice not to BW again.


-------------------------------------------------------

tl; dr: huge FOS on God Emperor and ByzantineKnight.

-------------------------------------------------------

Meanwhile, vote: pevergreen

Raskolnikov tries hard, and misses hard.

None of these people are guilty, and pevergreen is the worst lynch of them all.


By now, there's a massive Sasaki wagon. No idea why.

Sasaki isn't a sith...

Vote: Joooray

He's acting too Joorayish.

Two people know Sasaki is innocent by now. So, Rebel Jeb (perhaps unwisely) sticks his neck out for the initiate Sasaki.

So far:

Current Leader:

Sasaki (9) - pevergreen, Sigurd, Ignoramus, Ironside, Kagemusha, slysnake, Death is yonder, Diana Abnoba, Belisarius II

Second Place:

Yaropolk (5) - Csargo, Sasaki, Beefy187, ByzantineKnight, Ibn-Khaldun

You guys are making a mistake here...

Unvote: Vote: Yarolpolk

Rebel Jeb REALLY sticks his neck out for Sasaki.


Mass counter wagon on Yaropolk for no other real reason than: your massive wagon on Sasaki left no other choice.

See? MASSIVE WAGONS HANDICAP THE TOWN! STOP DOING IT!!!



First Place:

Yaropolk (13) - Csargo, Sasaki, Beefy187, ByzantineKnight, Ibn-Khaldun, Romanic, Rebel Jeb, Frozen in Ice, Diamondeye, Chaotix, Choxorn, Cecil XIX, Yaseikhaan

Second Place:

Sasaki (8) Sigurd, Ignoramus, Ironside, Kagemusha, slysnake, Death is yonder, Diana Abnoba, Belisarius II



Yaropolk was a basic initiate, light side. One less non-recruitable down... not a great choice. You didn't leave yourselves much of a choice. There was a vote on Kagemusha... you don't always have to go for the number two choice when counter wagoning.

No one wanted to wagon the basically-proven-innocent Andres' suspect? Poor Andres. So brilliant. So ignored.

Day Four: So close, and yet, so far....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

pretendVOTE:Ignoramus

Sasaki wages his jihad against Ignoramus even while dead. Poor guy. Ah don't worry, he comes back, due to my "everyone should get a chance to have fun, sniff sniff" hosting philosophy.

No one tried to kill pever. Why not?

Ignoramus is active which is suspicious.

I'm going with Vote:Sigurd though. Mostly on feeling, his vote yesterday doesn't sit well with me.

I hope, after this game, the "they're suspicious for being more active" theory has been squashed. It's better than nothing I suppose, because Iggy was something good, but he wasn't a Sith and he wasn't a Dark Jedi, and he frankly kicked butt this game. And he probably would kick butt in other games if his sudden additional contributions didn't get him killed right away. :P

I remember one game Csargo was unusually and refreshingly talkative. I made him my bestest friend and we won and we were both townies.

VOTE: CHOXORN

DEPRESSURIZING VOTE.

No one besides me found this hilarious? I dunno it tickled my funny bone.



Ok at this point votes go random, until a sudden soup wagon appears out of nowhere.

Vote: Andres Something is certainly off with you. First you vote Nightbringer then you dont unvote and jump the Soup bandwagon.In the same post you Fos Yaseikhaan who is already dead. Like you wouldnt know better. You claimed that you were some sort of non harmfull character, but we havent witnessed anything after the funny attack of the first night.

Kagemusha sneaks by again with another post that catches no flak from anyone.

FoS: All those going after Andres.

Andres is a cunning player, but he's not the type to intentionally draw votes onto himself as mafia... at least not unless he's protecting someone else. Mafo-Andres gets silly and provocative once he's a dead mafioso, not when he's a living mafioso. His current behavior is not consistent with him being scum. Those going after him seem be leaping at the opportunity to grasp at 'easy' suspicion. It's voting without any real thought. Of all those participating, there is one person who should seriously know better...

Unvote; Vote: Kage

No flak from anyone until.... dun dun dunn dunnnnn... the metal cow rears his head to call bull on the unusual things that wouldn't normally be found suspicious.

And this is why real, thoughtful analysis wins games. It's based in logic.

Why is it bull spit? Because Kagemusha is acting like he doesn't know better, but he knows better. That indicates lies, which indicates scum.

Tincow's alarm goes off, he wins the thread.

You forgot Kagemusha.

Oh, and Andres mentions him too. Didn't articulate why as much as Tincow did.

TC is correct in his reasoning. Everyone should be voting for Kage. Now.

What?

die, Kage, die!

What???

*sigh* Okay.

unvote, vote: Kagemusha

.......WHAT!?!?!?!?


Good gravy, is the town going to figure this out on round FOUR?? Oh poop, Kage is screwed.

He refers to the Star Wars game over at twcenter.net, there I had the cover role of C3PO and he was R2D2, but I was actually Grand Moff Tarkin, so I can understand him being a bit upset about that. However, I still think that's a very easy vote and in combination with the other things you mentioned, I fell he is a good choice at some point as well.

Now Kage seems to be the person of choice Vote: Kage.

Oh man, everyone seems to have found his scum. He's bloodied! he's on the ropes! He's down for the count!!!

So i should be lynched because to me Andres is acting suspicious? Unvote and Vote: Jooray, bit anxious to get into the bandwagon?

A swing and a miss! This only makes the hornet's nest angrier!

TOWNIES!!! TOWNIES!!! TOWNIES!!!! *chanting*

That's scummy and you know it.

Not only is it scummy, Andres knows it is scummy, and now Kage knows that Andres knows that it is scummy, and Andres knows that Kage knows that it is scummy, and Kage knows that Andres knows that Kage knows that it is scummy.

It's.... quite scummy, frankly.

Which is why I'm voting for;

Vote:Andres

A very strange vote.

Nearest I can figure, he's establishing he's not Sith because Sith wouldn't do anything so strange on purpose to attract attention to themselves. The "ACIN gambit", to coin a term.

Everything is going well until:

I find myself highly agreeable with Renata's argument against Vote: dcmort. At the same time I find it odd that Renata was so willing to drop her reasoning, especially considering it makes a lot of sense. For that I am suspicious of Renata. No fingers involved however; I don't find them very suspicious.

Renata isn't even in full agreement with her argument on dcmort, or she'd be voting for him.

Hrmm....

Are we dropping the Sigurd case so soon?

dcmort's post, as soon as I saw it (and I read the thread from the beginning of the day phase) struck me as very scummy. The case on Kagemusha seems kind of thin, but the subtleties of it may just be escaping me. While I wouldn't go so far as to vote for Andres, I do agree that we need to keep an eye on him and can't just give him a free pass because he's acting silly. I find one of the best ways to deflect serious attention is by acting silly.

So..

Unvote, Vote: dcmort

You may be able to change my mind.

Chaotix is giving reasons. No one is really sure about dcmort, not even people voting for him. Meanwhile, Kagemusha reeks of scum to half a dozen people.

I agree, the case against Sigurd was flawed from the start, so I vote: dcmort

What?

Ah ****, I forgot to unvote, Vote dcmort.

Why?

Closer analysis tells me that soup was replaced. Well I guess it's

Unvote; Vote: dcmort then

Because?


So it looks like Kage escapes. And then:

Tincow is a sith. I scanned him last night, and found him to be so.

Vote: TinCow

I recommend that Andres, whom he seemed to defend, is one also. Somebody protect me tonight, and I'll scan him to check. If not, I'll be dead, and I'd recommend lynching him anyways.

Umm...yeah. Carry on sirs.

Rebel Jeb's reading of the intentionally ambiguous Investigation IV- Force Persuasion results tells him that Tincow is Dark Side and recruitable.

This means he's jedi, and not recruited yet. However, a recruitable is okay to lynch if you have no one better. That limits the Sith team's potential recruits in the endgame.

But better than a potential recruit was the big Kahuna, Kagemusha himself. Like a thousand billion times better.

And this is why relying on investigation results is bad for the town. It stops all debate, discussion, and rational thought. And, it lets every single bad guy in the game know EXACTLY what to do in order to avoid being lynched, which is: follow the town in whatever they do, en masse.

It relieves all pressure that would otherwise have been applied to Kagemusha, or others.

So, peoples, do you agree with my premise that investigators aren't all they're cracked up to be? Even when they're correct, they still kinda suck. And Tincow was having a blasty blast with this game, and almost took down the main Sith guy, and now he's dead.

I hate investigators. There are just.... so many reasons why. They actually weakened the town's game here, in demonstrable fashion. Even when they're right, they're still so cheap.



1 massive wagon on TinCow later... (all real discussion stops at this point)

Unvote, Vote: TinCow

That one's a no-brainer. If he's not Sith, we can just take care of Jeb tomorrow.

It truly is a no-brainer. Investigation results turn a once-thriving discussion and real pressure on the top Sith into an automatic dogpile on an initiate with no real powers.

Every Sith in the game has zero pressure on them now.

Is this a fair assessment? Would I have done any different? I probably would be right there in that wagon.

And yet, from a host's perspective, you can see more clearly, how crippling any investigation result is to a game of mafia, which is about psychology and bluffing and tactics and limited information. It becomes no longer about psychology and all about pressing the win button. Nothing to analyze, nothing to learn.

It contributes to the "dumbening" of the town for the duration of the round. What was once debate is now a lynch mob with no dissenting opinions. There is nothing to debate.

All Tincow can do is laugh it off. He's powerless to stop it, so he tosses in the towel and watches the fireworks.

I hate investigators. There, I said it again. I mean it, so much.

Tincow: (26) Rebel Jeb, Seon, Psychonaut, robbiecon, Andres, Renata, Csargo, Double A, YLC, ByzKnight, landlubber, Sprig, Nightbringer, Stuck in Pi, Beefy187, Joooray, Autolycus, Raskolnikov, Ibn-Khaldun, Ironside, Belisarius II, choxorn, Frozen in Ice, pevergreen, Chaotix, Ignoramus

So Tincow is lynched, 26 votes to three.

Who did Tincow end up voting for? His original case on Kagemusha. He left his vote right where it should have been. His dead fingers ended up pointing at Kagemusha, and when he was dead and he was proven innocent, the rage went on Rebel Jeb, who was simply doing his job as an investigator, which was reporting his findings.

The dead finger points at Kagemusha. The voice of reason is silenced, crushed under the weight of an investigator-induced failwagon. The dead finger of suspicion is ignored, innocent though it was.

Day Five: WHERE MY TOWNIES AT???

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Post 826: A thoughtful analysis by Tincow, correctly pointing out that Jeb's move was non-Sith. Sith don't do that. Which is why I will do that someday, and I won't be able to get away with it because I just said I would try it, but I'm gambling you'll forget. Forget! For...get!

Vote : Ignoramus

What TinCow said + your plea to ATPG not to abandon his game.

Sorry, friend, but you have a tendency to get WoG'ed in these games. In your case, being active means there's something off.

Also, it has happened before that a role with investigative powers misinterpreted his investigation results, so I'd like to hear more from Rebel Jeb before voting him. After all, it wouldn't make sense for a Sith to expose himself so early in the game by claiming a pro-town role.

I'm more thinking along the lines of innocent+wrong interpretation of a dubious investigation result.

Ignoramus becomes the prime suspect again, and stays that way for a long time.

Keep your chin up, Iggy. It will get better.

NO, NO NONONONONONONONONO don't reveal if someone can be recruited or not.

Wisdom!

For this purpose, Force Ghosts do count as living players. The dead rules don't apply to them.

Updated rule list just to make sure it's made plain there as well.

With this rule, I made the call that Force Ghosts could be used to create pro-town networks.

Why?

Because if they are treated as dead people who can't reveal stuff, or can't confirm things other people said, then what reasons can they give for voting?

If they can't say what they did while they were dead, but they just investigated someone... they would vote for them and say "look at my vote, follow it" and people would.

So, I have to treat them as living people who can PM and everything. And thus, I unintentionally created a pro-town network.

I groaned at this decision. I didn't like it. I didn't want it. But, it was the only way Force Ghost made any sense. Plus, it was the same as the previous game, Force Ghost didn't increase or decrease in power.

I had to gamble that my skills as a game host, the balancing of the game, plus the ambiguousness I added to the game, was enough to overcome a town win by brute force and informational advantages.

I still don't know, as of this writing, if I broke the game or not. The game is now half over and the Sith are doing okay. When the Master or the Grandmaster Sith dies, it also removes pevergreen from the game, which could end the influence of the pro-town network.

Is it balanced? 50 spinning plates in the air is hard to balance. This was worse.

So I believe that our 'ghost' should become an 'archive' of all informations that should not be revealed publicly

Yes, he should. Sadly, there is basically no downside to this move, except that the town might blindly follow pevergreen and pevergreen could be wrong. But it does decrease his odds of being wrong.



Oh, and right around here, the Ignoramus wagon gets ridiculous. The discussion dies... AGAIN....

"14 Ignoramus: Andres, Rebel Jeb, DE, Choxorn, Seon, Sigurd, Ironside, Sprig, Nightbringer, Khazaar, Zack, Sasaki, Belisarius II, God Emperor

6 YLC: Renata, Joooray, DIY, Jarema, BK, Csargo

1 Seon: Psychonaut"

Then people get the idea to make YLC and Iggy duel.

YLC correctly predicts he's mince meat in such a duel, and even if he won, he'd not be any less a suspect, and that he'd never be able to kill a Sith, so a duel does him absolutely zero good.

That said, I wanted to write moar duels. Me sad.


So, he makes dead certain there will be no tie at all. Of course, we still had 24 hours to wait before the round ended anyway...

So, we all had a laugh over how silly we were.

LOL,
whatever ends up happening, you have style YLC, I like that.

YLC, defiant as ever, broke the tie against Iggy blatantly, to say fleep you to the town for giving him such an opportunity. Silly gooses.

Haven't we gone over this before. A TIE ONLY BENEFITS THE SITH. How does a tie benefit us in this situation? Both here are reasonable lynches, both are good choices, pick one ore the other.

FoS: God Emperor, Frozen In Ice and Seon .

Lecturing townies about what's good for the town?

Psycho, sloppy man. If I were in the game I would have voted you for this post, I'm serious. Not because I know the answer, but because I reflexively vote this kind of behavior.

I actually thought "man that's scummy" and looked up and saw Psychonaut's name. That's the sequence of events here. That's when I laughed and told Psychonaut I would have totally voted him if I were playing. I shouldn't have done that either, so I stopped making such comments. Me and my big mouth.

So yeah, ummmm

The day ends in slightly over 24 hours from now, lest we forget this day started 12 hours ago.

Awesome.

look if you want me dead you'll need to vig me because I have force breath. Chances are I'll die the next night unless the sith just suck hardcore

THIS IS A TOWNIE THING TO SAY.

This is what all townies should say. But then, some might become Sith, so maybe they want to shush about it. Either is good. One is townie.

Ig seems ok.

Others have revealed to me, I'd suggest if you have any active force powers, you do the same. I'm not cross-revealing nor am I revealing info to the town.

Force Ghost shows his worth. Leaving Iggy around was a good move.

Djeez, how could we possibly miss that?

Unvote; Vote : Sigurd

One of my favorite posts in the game, by one of my favorite posters.

Andres: Quality over quantity.

Also, LOL at the "I didn't know YLC was bald" comment.



So, what's the situation? YLC and Ignoramus are neck and neck for the lynch, and Kage is safe. Not even in play. What happens?

No im just saying that she does not like me as a person, nothing else. My opinion is that we have to gather our forces, which pever is doing a good job already by cross checking people.

"pever is doing a good job already"

Ouch.

How do you know that pever is doing a good job? As far as I can tell, the only thing he has done is make a personal judgment call on whether Ignoramus' role claim is legit or not. That seems like a pretty low evidentiary bar in a game in which all the mafioso have cover roles, and forwarding of the actual role PMs is prohibited. This is not to belittle pever's analytical skills, but rather to question why you place so much faith in them.

Kage, man.... your scum, it is showing!

fake faith, kage is on the lynch list too.

You guys aren't sure on YLC, and you don't want Iggy dead... LYNCH KAGE!!!

Come on now! Lynches aren't set in stone!!!

Go, go go go go!!!!

You're being oddly defensive. I never claimed to know anything about your role, nor did I ask for any information from you. What prompted those comments? I have also never protested giving information to pever, nor did I question pever's opinion of Ignoramus after he made it. That post is the only time I have even commented on the pever-nexus situation, and that post was intended to question why you appeared to be happy to blindly follow pever's lead without any information. Why are you exaggerating?

Hit him! Hit him! He's dropped his guard, land a haymaker!

It was not my intention to say I had a superior understanding of the situation. My interpretation of your post was that you were placing more faith in pever's judgment call on Ignoramus than seemed warranted based on the information we have been given. That seemed unusual to me, so I questioned you about it. I apologize if you felt like I was lecturing you, that was certainly not what I was trying to do.

Kage hits back, and Tincow gets woozy. He's falling for the wounded mafia routine!

How can you not dislike a guy who smokes Marlboro LIGHT?

Anyway, Kage, you have been behaving odd in a previous round and this getting personal/upset thing is something you sometimes do when you're scum. If you're innocent, then I suggest you stop digging your own grave.

Andres doesn't buy it. Lands a body blow.

But he's giving Kagemusha advice on how to play. Andres, no man. Come on my friend, if you're explaining why he needs to change his behavior to stop appearing scummy, then he's scummy! Nail him, don't help him!

He knows how to play! But you've accidentally nailed him being scummy! HIT HIM! HIT HIM!!! BUST HIM UP!!!

/runs

No!!! Now Andres is falling for it!

Kage swings back and Andres runs away. I am dumbfounded.


So the round ends with zero votes on Kage, after several people found him scummy again.

Where is my townies at? Where dids you go???

First Place

YLC: (21) Renata, Joooray, DIY, Jarema, ByzantineKnight, God Emperor, Ignoramus, Double A, Frozen, Blackadder, Beefy, dcmort93, Psychonaut, Chaotix, Cecil XIX, Greyblades, pevergreen, Andres, Csargo, Diamondeye, Diana Abnoba

Second Place

Ignoramus: (12) Seon, Rebel Jeb, choxorn, Sigurd, Ironside, Sprig, Khazaar, Sasaki Kojiro, Belisarius II, Zack, slysnake, Ibn-Khaldun


Bye, YLC. We hardly knew ye.

Day Six: And this is why I don't listen to mafia.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Reanimated?? hmm. Beskar tell us about this.

Vote:Kagemusha

Seems like we should avoid an irreversible cascade of votes on beskar just now.

Sasaki, you're so wise. I just can't quit you.

So tell us who that is Beskar, and we would be glad to lynch him for you.

This is Diana:

30 minutes of reading the org.

3 minutes to post a comment.

Logs off.

Town or mafia, that's Diana. But it looks scummy to people when she does a flyby. They think she's not contributing. But this is what she contributes when there's a lot of people left alive. She could make a case on someone, but she thinks it will get ignored.

That's Diana. Town or mafia. There's nothing unusual about it.

Rebel Jeb told us he scanned Tincow as Sith, he was not. Now I understand it s quite likely that he could be a false scanner.

But I want him to talk:

Vote: Rebel Jeb

This is a "I haven't read every post" post. It usually means townie, I'm afraid.

Vote: Beskar

He's a Sith.

We're going to let a Sith live?

Last time I checked, we had to kill ALL of them. It doesn't matter if they're not all allied with each other.

This means "I know too much, because the solution is obvious".

Well basic townies don't think it is obvious. Chaotix/neutral knows a bit more about the game than most. The obvious move is to get rid of any Sith murderers ASAP.

Look at all these other townies rejecting that solution as "too obvious".

What's his thought process and why is it different? Why is he telling the town what the obvious solutions are?

Where's the facepalm smilie?

You don't tell people that you have Force Breath, that makes it useless and annoying.

Telling townies what to do and what not to do = scummy.

Neutrals are kind of scummy.

Purple saber, actually. Check again.

That means it was a Jedi vigilante, not a Sith. Unless you Sith happen to use purple lightsabers nowadays?

NOTICE HOW FAST HE SAID THIS.

His giant purple saber is practically falling out of his pants, throbbing at us, ready to fill us with purple glowing goodness. He can barely contain himself. He wants to shout from the rooftops how he is the purple saber guy, but that's his subconscious mind.

His conscious mind is saying "I'm not the purple saber guy".

And that's why there's a strange behavioral tic here. He's all over the writeup, and he KNOWS it was a purple vigilante, not a red Sith.

Why?

Because it's called purple information syndrome. Nobody's perfect. :D

FOS: Chaotix

This is rhetoric and not reasoning.

What's that, Sasaki Doo? You smell something, boy? Could it be..... scummy?

Have a Sasaki snack.

That said, neutral vigilante trying to go Sith ends up killing more Sith than anyone else so far. Makes me LOL to no end.

I was talking with ATPG yesterday, I knew he wasnt joking about that force power.

I like to put crucial information in the hardest to reach place, which is always right in front of people.

It's not like he could really do anything with that info 1/2 round before it was used. Nothing could stop it.

I apologize for wanting to kill confirmed Sith instead of someone who is only suspicious.

Ah, sarcasm. A townie's best friend.

It's tough to be sarcastic and lie at the same time. It feels very dirty.

Try it, because sarcasm is based on what YOU find funny or ironic. If you don't believe your lie is the truth, then you don't think sarcasm based on that lie is funny, because it's not funny to YOU, because you know what the real truth is.

Humor is an important weapon in mafia games. If the joke is off, that indicates there's something wrong with your sense of humor. Which means you're uptight, anxious, stressed, or lying.

Which means you're scum.

Here, the sarcasm works. It fits a relaxed but irritated psychological state. The sarcasm is quick, biting, and honest. That's townie. That's something you can take to the bank.

Try telling jokes about your lies, in a way that you find directly funny, not funny in a meta-sense. It's hard to tell a joke you find funny while lying, because it doesn't "ring true".

Jokes are serious business.

I think it's kind of sad that people aren't really thinking about the Sith recruitment thing anymore - do you all just put such an important mechanic out of your minds and charge heads first into oblivion? If the Sith can only recruit when one of them dies, then KILLING SITH IS POINTLESS unless you kill them simultaneously. The known Sith, in this case Beskar, dies - his Sith master recruits a townie, whom we now do not know is a Sith.

Do you not see how this does not benefit us? You all like constantly whittling yourself down uselessly? You will make no progress, ever, and the Sith will win.

Have fun town :D!

It's true, frankly.

The exchange between YLC and Chaotix is awesome, worth a re-read.

Beskar: (7) Jarema, Beefy187, Ignoramus, Zack, Frozen in ice, Autolycus, johnhughthom

Ignoramus: (6) Sprig, robbiecon, choxorn, Seon, Sasaki Kojiro, Chaotix

So, we have powerful innocent Jedi at 6, and known Sith at 7.

Well, okay, I agree. Lynch the Sith.

Soft claim. You're already under extreme suspicion. Unnecessary and makes you look scummier. Say the whole deal, or say nothing at all.

When a mafioso is under no suspicion, they can lob townie-sounding things at will all day long. This is great because it provides reasons for a townie to reveal information to the sith, or die as a consequence of not doing so, and maybe they will die anyway.

And none of this "appears" scummy. But it is, because it blends in with classical standoffish townie scum-finding methods.

These are the kinds of behaviors mafia use when they're not under suspicion to STAY that way. It doesn't always indicate scum, but question people like this, put pressure on them. Don't say why. See how they react.

Make them feel a little heat. Just to make them nervous. Maybe they'll get panicky.

I'll second that FOS; that post of classical's was totally meaningless.

Sometimes townies who are in an unfamiliar forum and aren't big talkers and don't usually play such big games post whatever is on their mind. And, it's so off from the brainwaves of everyone else, it falsely triggers suspicion.

Maybe we have evolved to distrust outsiders, and this picks up in times of stress.

Maybe that's why when things go bad, minorities are blamed. /too much social commentary.

Vote: Sigurd

I came across some new information.

At this point, Sigurd is the best lynch for today.

And this is why you shouldn't listen to Mafia.

And this is why you shouldn't listen to Mafia.

And this is why you shouldn't listen to Mafia.

Well, it is pretty obvious I am the better choice to stay alive, I already said, it wasn't my Sith lord who revived me, and said about another faction pre-this incident. Whoever revived me, did it to distract the town away from themselves.

Even if you don't believe me that I want to take revenge on whoever first nighted me, there are other things to consider:

The Rule of Two - There is currently only me and my Master. So if you don't believe what I am saying about another faction, you deprive my Master of recruiting some one else and you get to block a known sith, severely limiting my faction. (or don't block me, and allow me to hunt down the Sith who killed me in the first place)

It wasn't my Master who revived me - If it wasn't him, who else would revive a Sith? I place my bets that it wasn't a Jedi who revived me, so I leave that up to you to find out, As for the timing of the incident, my money is on Ignoramus.

This was valid though. He was trying to figure out who revived him.

It was Kagemusha, when Kage was feeling the pressure.

It worked, too.

He could have kept doing it. But Kage had no more pressure on him.

Beskar wasn't revived again. Why not?

@ Nightbringer and Joooray and frankly everyone else

Yes I know, I haven't been very active in this game so far, so sorry to all and esp. Pizza. He puts so much into his games, and that isn't fair to him, and to you all for that matter. RL is just kicking my butt lately, with my new job, working day shift and night shift, OT...don't know if I'm coming or going some of the time. It should even out in about a week or so, and I will hopefully be able to keep up with this game, cause I'm sorta lost, and behind right now.

Well, I need to vote now, before I miss another vote phase, if I can't get back on here before the phase is over, so; Vote: Ignoramus for now, unless it turns out we don't have any roleblockers to block Beskar.

Look at the delayed reaction.

See how much time it took for her to respond to criticism of her play style?

You could throw a wagon on her and she wouldn't know about it until it is too late, and her defense would also sound wrong to you, and she will die.

That's Diana. You gotta get to know her. This is who she is.

She's not at the computer except 1/50th of the day, if that much. 1/100th of every two days, maybe. That's why there's such a delay in reaction times. She's not lurking, she's NEVER THERE!

:D Loves you babe.

No rulebreak has occurred.

Why would the Sith tell pevergreen about his Master unless it was cow chips?

Of course it's not a rulebreak. It's what mafia do to mess with you. Totes legal, and lulz-worthy.

Sigurd did himself no favors by playing into it. He fell on his sword for a joke.

Argh. Something is completely off here. Where's someone very analytical like Renata or YLC when you need them?!

unvote; vote: Ignoramus

This is what Mafia post when they are having a blasty blast.

Psychonaut is loving this meaningless chaos.

Why was Ignoramus Sith again?

This is like a war that's been going on for 100 years, until finally someone says.... Hey, why are we fighting?

Why is Ignoramus a Sith? Because someone found him suspicious once, and 20 people voted for him. Now he's officially a Sith, that's why. Appeal to popularity.

Well, I already called it. But I am glad you see reason.

If anyone knows anything about me, I use the truth to my advantage. I rarely outright lie.

Dead mafia like to talk to living mafia (Ironside). Living mafia like to talk to living mafia. But only 1 or 2 posts.

unvote, vote:beskar

hmm, ignoramus is feeling like a bit too easy of a target atm.

Yep. That's why people are voting for him, and for almost no other reason.

Ignoramus: (13) Sprig, robbiecon, choxorn, CBlackadder, Khazaar, Ibn-Khaldun, Diana Abnoba, Beskar, Sigurd, Psychonaut, Ironside, Csargo, God Emperor

Sigurd: (10) pevergreen, Beefy187, DIY, Yaropolk, Autolycus, classical_hero, Diamondeye, Jarema, Seon, ACIN,

Beskar: (9) Jarema, Ignoramus, Zack, Frozen in ice, johnhughthom, Chaotix, Warman, Joooray, Sasaki Kojiro,

Notice how the Sith is currently ranked number three in votes, and the number 1 and 2 votes are both townies?

And he's a known Sith, too.

That's how awesome the case on Ignoramus was.

LOL

unvote, vote:ignoramus

It's an irresistible force! You cannot stop being attracted to it! You just said he was too easy a target, and like a moth to a flame, you're right back in it!

Alright, i didn't get a satisfactory response from Sigurd.

Sigurd is a sith lord.

I don't know if he has force breath, he wouldn't tell me.

This one is not pever's fault. Sigurd could have tried to be serious. But it is a game after all.

Did he?

Time up.

My original post was a commentary about how unsporting it was, but I thought better of it, because it is a game and I've tossed my life away as townie god knows enough times. Anything is a valid strategy in this game, except getting yourself killed as SK or neutral. Anything that could lead to your team winning is technically correct.

Sigurd dies as townie, so he can't be converted and can win with the Jedi if they win.

So who am I to say it is unsporting or wrong?

XD