Star Wars: Fall of the Order [Information Thread]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Post 3357 of the Game Thread

Wall of the Commentary


Episode III: Revenge of the Puns

MOAR LIGHTSABERZ EDITION

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Day Seven: What a waste of time.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Rebel Jeb, Andres, Sprig, and Beskar die. So many awesome players. I am really sad to see Rebel Jeb go this time, because he was such an awesome character and he was being useful and he was learning.

Andres because he's hilarious and he has bloodhound-like mafia senses.

Sprig because he's an excellent player, especially in the endgame. But he gets quiet when he dies, he's not used to being dead detective I guess.

Beskar because he was getting a chance to finally play the game. He died from Chaotix again!!

And now, Belisarius II becomes the Grandmaster of the Order. Let's see how he does.

Ok... here it comes... YOU OBVIOUSLY LYNCHED THE WRONG GUY last round.

LOL

You deserved it for messing with pever after beskar already messed with him. Poor guy was getting a lie told to him by a mafia, confirmed to him by a townie.

Totally lols-worthy but still, can't blame pever (for all of it).

He needs to stop listening to Sith.

And the townies too? *wink*

Keep it pg-13 please

Yes, more G-rated jokes for adults. I love it.

Sneak jokes past the censors, pizza loves it and can sense innuendo from half a foot away.

I didn't even get a fight...?

:(

I know, buddy. When none of your defenses function and the move kills you instantly, there's not a whole lot I can add to the description besides gore.

That's blood, guts, and gore, not Al Gore, obviously.

Although....

No, that couldn't work.

Guys, please look at other players as well as me. At the moment your playing into the Sith's hands, because they can just jump on(or stay off) my bandwagon and be none the more suspicious for it. The Sith must have gotten spooked by Rebel Jeb's investigative powers, and only kept him alive long enough to be used as lynch-bait.

He's been remarkably patient about all this so far.

This game will go down in history as the longest and most popular suspicion of a townie in a large game. It was even acted on with the lynch AND a duel, iirc. My my.



And now, I am scrolling down, and this is all I see, as far as the eye can see:


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Okay, now we have MASSIVE WAGON ON dcmort93.

MASSIVE WAGON leads to what? No options.



I'm scrolling down to find stuff to comment on, but all I see is post after post of "vote: dcmort93."

Ok I'm still scrolling.


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort








Scrolling......


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort




Yeah. So there was a lot of lively and informative discussion worth commenting on here, obviously.


Ok I reached the end of the page at 80 posts per page. How do you like me now? No interesting discussion, NO interesting commentary.


Open up the next page and....

Vote: dcmort

GAH!

Eehh, ATPG please don't kill me. Anyway, all jedi knows about this one, the dark jedi knows about themself and the sith probably got cover roles and if nothing else, would know about this if they can recruit (and the game hints heavily about that they can).

True. It just feels odd about him speciffically chosing a purple saber (since sith default seems to be red) at the first night. He probably have a decent power level and night attacks is a bit of rock, scissor, paper. Jedi knight Rebel Jeb got unlucky for example.
The options are "dark jedi" or a sith using purple saber on night one. A dark jedi might not need to kill as much as the sith and is laying low atm. Or is only using force power kills. Or if a sith, he could simply use other weapons as you said.

First writeup says yellow...

Ironside knows way too much about this game to be posting so rarely.

Scum flag. Any reaction from the town?



Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort



Vote: dcmort



Vote: dcmort

Hmmm..... this vote is too close to call. Better do a hand recount. Could someone please count up all the votes again and make sure I've got this right?


Tally:


First Place:

dcmort93: (32) Diamondeye, Nightbringer, Autolycus, Chaotix, Zack, pevergreen, ByzantineKnight, Seon, Yaropolk, Captain Blackadder, Nictel, Choxorn, Sasaki Kojiro, Frozen in Ice, Psychonaut, God Emperor, slysnake, Jarema, Beefy187, Death is Yonder, Ignoramus, Kagemusha, Renata, classical_hero, Belisarius II, Joooray, Ironside, Johnhughthom, Ibn-Khaldun, AntiKingWarmanCake88, robbiecon, Diana Abnoba

A Close Second:

Ignoramus: (1) dcmort93

Bored game host is unimpressed by your failwagon.



The commentary for today sucks for a reason, and it ain't me.

unvote, vote:Ignoramus

LET'S MAKE IT A TIE

Nice.





First Place:

dcmort93: (32) Diamondeye, Nightbringer, Autolycus, Chaotix, Zack, pevergreen, ByzantineKnight, Seon, Yaropolk, Captain Blackadder, Nictel, Choxorn, Frozen in Ice, Psychonaut, God Emperor, slysnake, Jarema, Beefy187, Death is Yonder, Ignoramus, Kagemusha, Renata, classical_hero, Belisarius II, Joooray, Ironside, Johnhughthom, Ibn-Khaldun, AntiKingWarmanCake88, robbiecon, Diana Abnoba, Cecil XIX

A Close Second:

Ignoramus: (2) dcmort93, Sasaki Kojiro



Gee, was he lynched?

You totally deserved to watch him not die due to force breath, too. This was just as deserved as the Sigurd lynch, resulting in townie death.

Totally self-inflicted wounds. I love you guys, but the thinking caps were not on tightly here.

Day Eight: We all love Ignoramus

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

dcmort is dead, Jedi Knight. Everyone now has a big fat L on their foreheads from yesterday, but the lesson is learned, isn't it? Massive wagon = failwagon.

Failwagons can kill Sith, but so far, it's been good at stifling discussion and ruining the Jedi in every possible way.

1/3 of the Jedi are gone now. Time to get serious!

Jesus h christ.

We are going to be lynching people for in thread stuff instead of nonsense for the rest of game ok?

vote:Zack

Sasaki leads the round once again with an intelligent observation. This isn't random, he usually has something intelligent to say that's very much worth listening to.

He sounded confident? HE SOUNDED CONFIDENT?!?!?!?! Your friends "Confidence" got who knows how many innocents killed. As I had been saying pever's scanner is a false scanner, a role not too uncommon for ATPG's games, and he can apparently vig kill if i read pever's last post right. That kind of power needs to go. Now. before more innocents get killed

And so, another victim of the Force Persuasion misreading phenomenon figures that the person feeding pever false info is Sith.

Well, that was wrong last time.

Taking bets on if it is wrong a second time, and for the same reason.

Remember, if you see bad, fail, wrong wrong wrong behavior, that's an uninformed townie. Playing badly is the most townie thing you can do. It almost proves you're not mafia.

UNVOTE, VOTE:CHAOTIX

jesus the other townies are driving me crazy.

I like how Sasaki's reaction to strange behavior is to immediately vote for it. So far, he's voted for Chaotix, and Kagemusha, and... who else?

He has a trigger happy style you just have to love. And it's pretty keen stuff too. Didn't he vote for the mafia on round 1 of the previous game, and said Niklas had some explaining to do?

Sometimes this stuff isn't luck, man.

Vote: Chaotix

Smell of a scum in the last post.

I heart beefy.

Sigh. I really think we should lynch the scanner. How long are you going to eat his BS? Pressure vote: pevergreen. Reveal your source or die I would say.

And that's why Nictel is a townie.

Because a Sith wouldn't post that.


Oh my... here comes the Joooray wagon.

And... another Ignoramus wagon.


Another dozen reasonless wagon votes on either one.

I don't understand the reason for voting Joooray at this point. Like Zack says, this seems more like repeated jeb situation than anything else.

Vote: Chaotix

Ignoramus would be a fine vote if it wasn't for Beskar's perpetual wish for having him lynched.

So, the person not following these wagons votes for a neutral who is trying to fall to the dark side.

What does that tell you? If you don't follow the crowd, and the crowd is wrong, you have a chance of being much closer to the target.

Voting yourself to prevent death by inactivity?

Think of incredibly unhelpful behavior.

Now concentrate.

And now, think of the word "townie".

Now, put the two together.... what do you get?

XD

Don't bad guys like to do two things: Blend in, and look helpful?

When they're not being helpful, they're blending in. When they're not blending in, they're revealing their perfect information syndrome or they're lecturing townies about being better townies.

Townies, meanwhile, aren't voting, voting themselves to avoid a WOG, or voting for known townies, or they're revealing their special powers very early on for no reason, or they're finding other innocent townies guilty and they weren't about to be lynched.

Bad, unhelpful behavior is what townies do. It sticks out like a sore thumb, because it's soooooo bad that only a townie could do it.

vote: Ignoramus

When the whole town is doing the failwagon, even excellent players start to clam up and there's no need to bother with having an intelligent discussion.

It's like bad behavior is contagious.


Post 1562:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053227015

Here, the reason for the repeated failures becomes apparent. Scanning twice wasn't actually why Joooray learned this, but because he scanned WHILE KILLING, so he KNEW that the scan was accurate.... which meant that he knew for a fact that "Dark Side" did NOT necessarily mean Sith.

Which was funny because (surprise!!) killing people turned him to the Dark Side and he wasn't Sith either.

Only now, at the end, do you understand....

Could you be any more suspicious? I will gladly help you on your way

Vote Remake

This works to avoid suspicion for a while, but you can't survive the game like this. And, you could get vig killed for the heck of it.

It's not a winning strategy in a game this big with vigilantes.

My name is TinCow, and I approve this message.

Case in point. Even butt-kicking Tincow isn't contributing much of anything now. Why should he lift a finger when the general consensus has already been decided?

Apathy, voting with the crowd for no reason, reasonless suspicion, it is contagious, and deadly to the town.

Heh. I find it funny that people are voting for me solely because I'm the second/third place candidate and Sasaki did it first, otherwise giving no reason.

Well you look nervous. Is it the scars? Do you wanna know how I got em?

do you really? do you really FIND IT FUNNY?

HIT HIM!!! HIT HIM!!! GET-

Why is it funny to you? What is that made you laugh while you were typing that first post?

Oh, it was more funny as in "strange" than funny as in "made me laugh". (Your second post made me laugh.)

But I suppose it's the fact that you could be so dead set on lynching me and so wrong at the same time. And the fact that townies follow you blindly without you even giving a case.

Usually even ATPG has to give something resembling a wall of text to get people to follow him.

Whenever there's an image of townies blindly following me to their doom, it's a scumbag saying it.

This is the equivalent of rolleyes.

I will vote: Ignoramus and reserve my judgement on Jooray for later.

See, when you have a huge wagon on one suspect, and a wagon on another, that limits your options.

Now we're voting for people because, and specifically because, they are not Joooray.

Think about it for a minite. It's totally foolproof. How many people in the game are not Joooray? It can't be that many.





First Place:

Ignoramus: (21) Zack, Choxorn, Khazaar, Death is yonder, ByzantineKnight, Double A, Joooray, Ironside, Nictel, Seon, Jarema, Nightbringer, Link, WEW, Autolycus, Renata, Yaseikhaan, Chaotix, slysnake, Diana Abnoba, Frozen in ice,

Second Place:

Chaotix: (5) Sasaki, Beefy, God Emperor, robbiecon, Antikingwarmancake88

Third Place:

Joooray: (2) pevergreen, Ignoramus
remake20: (2) landlubber, Captain Blackadder

Fourth Place:

Link: (1) Csargo
Frozen: (1) Psychonaut
Sasaki Kojiro (1) Diamondeye
Cecil XIX (1) Yaropolk


Abstain: remake20 (vote not bolded)



And so, Ignoramus is finally lynched because he was not Joooray, because he was suspicious for the reason of he was interested in the game.

And he survived.

I lol'ed.

Day Nine: Read my lips..... No new suspects!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

True, that was me killing Stuck in Pi. I did it as an attempt to appear elsewhere in the write-up, thus trying to proof that I can not be one of the killing Sith. I chose Stuck in Pi, because he wasn't participating at all and I didn't want to kill someone that was useful to the town.

It appears though that my action were in vain, as there seem to be not Sith kill tonight (though to possible Sith attacks), just people killing lurkers, like me. I was half expecting not to be attacked this night, either because the Sith feared I'd be protected or able to defend myself, or because they thought I'd be a good lynchbait this round. Still no attack on neither myself nor Iggy, both claimed Jedi Master, seems curious and I don't know if I can trust Iggy's claim, nor do I know what further I can do to proof that I'm not a threat to town.
I will, however, refrain from killing in the future and concentrate on investigation and protection.

Here, Joooray does what seems like a wise idea, which is openly admit to a vig kill.

But, the outrage over this move only makes things worse for him.

I could be the only jedi with Double edged light saber
Rawr!

Beefy is a deadly, deadly jedi.

Don't try and lynch Iggy again, since I think he might be telling the truth. Look for someone who is just doing enough in the game and that is a likely Sith, so that he does not need to be active enough to be suspicious. FOS: Cecil XIX.

Good contribution from the dead.

Cecil is fine. I checked him out the night before I died.

Good contribution from the force ghost.

I missed a few days. Can somebody tell me why the self confirmed killer Joooray can keep doing what he's doing without being under suspicion? Are we sure he isn't Sith? Or did I miss something?

Good question from the dead.

Was Stuck in Pi a suspect? What about Ignoramus? Is he no longer a suspect?

I like these kinds of questions. It generates "good" activity and keeps many people informed of the facts.

Facts tend to wander away from our minds after a while.

You've limited yourself to nothing more but short posts this game. It's starting to freak me out.

That's Nictel. That's how he plays. He's kind of like Khazaar in that regard.

What's the case against Ignoramus? Why is it better to lynch Ignoramus than to lynch Joooray? Do you have an opinion on other players?

:swoon:

This is why Andres is a great townie.

Running around and killing innocent Jedi at night is not "off". It's about the worst possible way to prove your innocence

"Please, ignore my red skin with black dots and my red lightsaber. I'm innocent! I-N-N-O-C-E-N-T. To prove it, I will now kill a Jedi during the night."

Lynch this clown already.

Ah yes, this sounds logical.

In fact the best way to remove the Sith is to block one until you find the other, and then kill them both at night and lynch any survivors.

Random vigs can bring you closer to that, but unless it is followed up by an equally successful random lynch/vig, they can recover.

It does at least show that one of Joooray's actions was being taken up.

Vote: Jooray. If you are getting people killed that come out as innocent and now also directly killing people who come out as townies. I think now is about the time to reveal your identity once you have been lynched.Then no one has to guess why are you causing this mess anymore.

Kagemusha doesn't want vigilantes running around. Revealed, his opinion is.

Who is most frightened of vigilantes? I do believe the Sith are, and for good reason.

vote:Ignoramus

If anyone doesn't find the above set of posts scummy, they need help.

At least this vote is based on his actual words. That's better than no reason.

Pever if you're talking to mr. Purple saber, he already got 4 kills and 2 survived, not counting any possible attacks were the saber wasn't used.
The second attack on Beskar and the second attack on dcmort93 I get, but that's one odd record there.

Is mind trick a defensive power? Since he seems to get two defense powers then.



Not seeing that part as obvious in the write up. Several of the sith attacks got "join me" or "only the dark side can fuel your victory" as part of the write up.

Vote: Joorey
Killing to prove your innocence isn't that good of a defense. And we don't know if sith can use a differently coloured saber for attack or not.

Sith want Joooray dead. That's what the deal is. They don't like vigilantes.

Looking at the write-up...

Joooray has killed at least two innocents now, and has even tried to get his victims to become apprentices. Even if he started out town, he has definitely fallen to the Dark Side by now (he even mentions it in the write-ups). He doesn't have to be a Sith to be Dark Side; rather he is probably some kind of unaffiliated dark Jedi now.

The write-up practically slams it in our faces, but nobody is voting for him. Why?

Vote: Joooray

Neutrals want Joooray dead, because they lose when they die, so they don't like vigilantes.

Of course, Joooray is neutral. So they could have been allies instead of enemies.... but I don't think Chaotix realized, or if he did, he didn't care.

So far, three non-townies are going with the "OBVIOUS PRO-TOWN MOVE" of lynching the vigilante.

Why is that? Sense a pattern, do you?

pever, when did the Mr. Purple Saber Man reveal to you? What name did he give for his character? I personally find it hard to trust him, but I am still uncertain. If we count all of the night actions conducted by someone using a purple saber he did the following:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Night 1 Kills Beskar
Night 2 None
Night 3 None
Night 4 Attacks Rebel Jeb and fails
Night 5 Attacks Dcmort
Night 6 Kills Beskar again
Night 7 Helps Kill Dcmort
Night 8 Kills Remake

All of these night actions can be plausibly explained as trying to help the town. On the power's side of things, he's used Form 3, 5, and 6, Mind Trick, and Force Push. I think having three forms means that he is pretty powerful, either a knight or a master. So if he claimed a name that lined up with a name promoted to one of these positions, then I would find it much more likely that he is pro-town. However, in most of his night actions, he is described as aggressive which doesn't help his claim. I guess in the end he seems pro-town like, but we still shouldn't put too much trust into him.

As for Jooray, his explanation fits but would also fit a Sith trying to escape being caught. I for one found the description of his battles quite Sith like, but there are a few things to note. First Ana states, "... then you are a Sith Lord" to which Jooray responds "Am I? Not quite, Ana..." I am going to hedge my bets and say this really is true, which does help Jooray's case. However, the way this is stated also makes it sound like he could be something similar...

Second, there aren't any other night kills that match what we know for sure about Jooray exactly. From the last two nights we know that Jooray has a blue lightsaber, knows Form 3, and can use Force Push/Wave and Force Lightning. Though only other kills that have any of the same traits are the following:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Night 1 Attack on Jacen Sky: Blue Saber, but Form 2 used
Night 2 Attack on Yogal Sec-barr: Force Lightning
Night 3 Attack on Sec-Sar Jor: Force Lightning

Looking at all of this put together, I find that I am more suspicious of Jooray until pever tells us more about Mr Purple Saber Man. Not sure what to think of Ignoramus.

Vote: Jooray

Chaotix has been careful not to act too scummy with his kills. He wants to be able to explain his behavior as pro-town, especially now that he revealed to pever.

This is convincing even those he hasn't revealed to that he's townie.

I do not know what I can do to prove my innocence. I told you I am Jedi Master An-Wan Dyas, and extremely important to the town. The Sith wouldn't have targeted me last night because they want to use my as lynch-bait. For crying out loud - I had a blue light sabre and lost an attack against me two nights ago. I do not have Force Breath anymore - you've exhausted that, so you will finally get rid of me this time if you want.

Just could someone please list your main suspicions against me, and I'll answer them. If the sole reason you suspect me is because I'm participating then that's pretty low.

Ignoramus' defense of himself becomes heroic at this point. How he still lives is beyond me, but it's pretty awesome.

He is now Sith bait. Come and get him, boys!

I'm not entirely sure what you aim at, but as I said, I only got my vig ability after scanning dcmort for the first time. The results I got from pizza on dcmort made me think he was Sith, they were: "Susceptible to the Dark Side, and you sense that the Dark Side is already present in this one." And as I also said before, I got carried away at that point, partly due to the circumstances in the game, partly because I didn't think far enough. Only after I investigated dcmort a second time while attacking him the night after he survived the lynch did pizza give me some hints on how to interpret my results, they were:
You are beginning to realize that susceptible to the Dark Side means that they are not Sith yet.
When someone is not susceptible to the Dark Side, but the Dark Side is present, they are either Sith or highly resistant to the Dark Side.

So, yes my investigation results were misleading, but I wasn't aware of that, when I vig-killed dcmort.

Joooray continues his heroic defense of himself.

He's trying to avoid becoming an hero.

Random thoughts:

It has been mentioned that killing brings a Jedi closer to the Dark Side. In Capo games, killing as a townie gets you promoted to Wiseguy and further. Would it be possible that there exists a mechanic which turns a Jedi Master who uses his vig ability a set number of times to the Dark Side? In short: a Jedi Master who kills enough becomes Sith? We had a vigilante killing on N1. That same person killed again (same target). Why the N1 kill? Was the Dark Side too tempting? About Joooray, I can accept that Joooray killed dcmort, given his investigation results; I don't see any good reason for killing Stuck in Pi. "To make sure I appear in the write-up, so you guys know I'm innocent" doesn't cut it for me, as an explanation. Killing Jedi is not what a Jedi Master is supposed to do. This is all speculation and hypothesis, but I think either Joooray is Sith or he's trying to become one. We all know how tempting the Dark Side can be...

Brains..... BRAIIIINNNNSSSS..... Pizza want eat big squishy brains like these.

I think we're at a point where some discussion of the game mechanics is warranted. In the previous game, the only real chance the Jedi had of winning was keeping powerful Jedi alive for most of the game so that they were strong enough to stand up to the Sith in the end. In essence, the only players that truly mattered were power roles. I know ATPG has modified the game goals to make it less rigged than the last game, but I never got any game mechanic info beyond a Jedi Initiate role PM which never changed or improved. So, I am currently unsure of how cautious we need to be about lynching potential power roles. My instinct is to say that in mafia games, the townies need to rely first and foremost on good town play, and not wait to be rescued by power roles. Such an instinct makes me perfectly happy to watch Ignoramus and Joooray get lynched. However, if the game is still a lot like the first game, playing such a scorched earth policy towards potential scum is likely to make the game unwinnable at the end.

So, the question is... what information do we have about the town's victory methods? Can we win the old fashioned way by just lynching the right people, or do we need to try and keep power roles alive to the end, like in the first game?

His caution is wise and warranted. I love the deep thought being put into this game.

This round is much more productive than the previous ones, if simply because the general IQ has been raised by about 50 now.

That's scummy. All Ignoramus has been doing is posting.

The case we had on him was the fact he was posting at all (usually inactive) and a misinterpreted investigation. Then we lynched him, and he was even attacked and didn't reveal himself to be Sith.

I'd say while it's possible, the chances Ignoramus is Sith are not high.

And you want to lynch him because he's a "distraction", Beefy? FoS: Beefy

Neutrals and Sith toss out a mix of really good townie advice, and townie-sounding advice.

Here, Chaotix' point is correct. Ignoramus is basically a suspect for no reason anymore, and not much to begin with.

First Place:

Ignoramus: (10) Nictel, Diamondeye, Seon, Autolycus, Jarema, DIY, Beefy, Choxorn, Double A, Khazaar

Second Place:

Joooray: (9) Kagemusha, Ironside, Chaotix, WEW, Sasaki, Diana Abnoba, Robbiecon, Warman, Greyblades

Third Place:

wideyedwanderer: (4) Nightbringer, CBlackadder, Frozen in Ice, Renata,

7

At least the wagons aren't insane. Options remain 5 hours before the lynch.

What's it going to be? A tie?


Yup.


Ignoramus: (10) Nictel, Diamondeye, Seon, Autolycus, Jarema, DIY, Beefy, Choxorn, Double A, Khazaar
Joooray: (10) Kagemusha, Ironside, Chaotix, WEW, Sasaki, Diana Abnoba, Robbiecon, Warman, Greyblades, Ignoramus


And, neither one died, because the weaker Jedi managed to survive with Art of Movement.

Juuuuuust barely a draw.

Day Ten: Someone besides Joooray or Ignoramus, please???

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The rounds starts off with votes of Warman, Robbiecon, and Diana.

Already we have a break from the monotony of Joooray/Ignoramus/Joooray/Ignoramus/Joooray/Ignoramus.

I am happy.

Is there a case against WeW then? This is getting mighty confusing. Ignoramus and Jooray fight to a standstill, then Jooray is attacked during the night and fights the attacker to a standstill. Did Ignoramus attack Jooray during the night or was it someone else? Last is it or there a case against Warman?

Another Kagemusha contribution.

Nice and early, avoids a lot of the grief in the later part of the round, like being forced to decide between two candidates.

Renata taught me this.


Now we have a vote on Sasaki and a vote on Frozen.... wide variety of candidates. I have a feeling we'll have a good discussion now.

Well i am going to Vote: Jooray. I cant underrstand in my right mind that if he could be among the strongest jedi right now and is on his way into turning to darkside. Why on earth we should let him live? If we attack him during night, it will only corrupt more of us, so i think he should be lynched.

Kagemusha paints Joooray with the strongest, deepest shade of scum he has on his palate.

Wrong person to go for.

Frozen votes for Beefy, and pevergreen hearts beefy.

Ignoramus- not to say that Diana hasn't been acting odd, but an active ability is hardly cause for suspicion. Most players at Knight level or higher have active abilities by now.

This is both true and reveals a bit about Chaotix.

He knows that Knights have active abilities, because he's been a knight and he has active abilities. Learned a few, in fact.

Active ability is only odd at the beginning of the game, where there are Initiates and Padawans.

Lack of an active ability probably means innocent, though. There are some stragglers without powers, like Beefy at this point had no active powers.

Unvote, vote: Chaotix

So assertive. So confident. So.... scummy.

The force is strong with you, my young apprentice...

Vote: Wideyedwanderer

His sudden activity burst did feel odd.

Jooray is at least contained for now, and it does feels doubtful that he have joined mr purple saber after tonight.

Chaotix, could you please point out the case on remake20, mr purple saber's latest dying victim? Ourside from being lurking?
Mr purple saber really feels like a serial killer with a thin excuse of sith hunting.

The double attack on Death is yonder is interesting, since the attackers doesn't seem to cooperate. If that's the case, I'm leaning towards this being evidence for two separate sith factions.

Another Sith joins an existing bandwagon. Easy to blend in if the townies make it this simple to.

I believe your reasoning completely. Killing townies doesn't tend to prove innocence though.

Please explain how using an active ability is scummy.

Tin"voice of reason"Cow everybody.


The exchange between Chaotix and pevergreen was hilarious from an omniscient perspective:

I'm not defending the other vigilante. I'm saying that Joooray is just as bad, or worse.
The purple lightsaber vigilante has killed Sith in addition to innocents, but Joooray has only gone after innocents so far.

Basically, I'm saying Joooray is saying "But he was doing it too!" and then using it as his defense. That kind of reasoning doesn't make Joooray any less guilty, he's just trying to shift blame on someone we don't know and therefore can't lynch even if we want to.

Ignore the purple vigilante, I've got his every move covered.

I think that Joooray is currently not a credible threat. I still believe his victory conditions align with ours.

I say we ignore Ig/Joooray and look at some new people. Frozen, or Diana. Either is good.

There we go... Chaotix talks about himself in the third person, and pevergreen reminds Chaotix to stop worrying about.... Chaotix.

It made me lol.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053229250

DIY puts on his thinking cap.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053229251

WEW's heroic defense.

Diana Abnoba: (6) Seon, Autolycus, God Emperor, Jarema, Ignoramus, Frozen in Ice
WEW: (6) Nightbringer, Renata, Joooray, Yaropolk, Ironside, Skooma Addict

Joooray: (4) Kagemusha, Tincow, Chaotix, Slysnake

Chaotix: (3) Beefy187, Yaseikhaan, Sasaki

Sasaki Kojiro2: (2) Robbiecon, Diamondeye

Frozen in Ice: (1) pever,



Not enough voters to end the round yet.

Diana is away and doesn't show up in time to save herself. As usual she's not exactly hovering over the keyboard.

Diana? She's often quiet, doesn't mean anything, weak reasoning.

It's scummy to defend people you can't know for sure are innocent.

"Weak reasoning" has been used all game long. What's special about this weak reasoning?

It's special because it's being criticized by a Sith. This is the "give logical reasons/look townie" strategy. It works because it blends in with other people who are positively contributing AND doesn't trigger anyone's scumdar.

It is indistinguishable from several other posts of this kind, so it works.

If I were Sith, I would not have renewed my activity. Absolutely no one besides you found my lack of activity suspicious at the time. I was not under any pressure. If I hadn't replied, it is likely your accusation would have gotten lost in the Joooray and Ignoramous cases. I chose to reply then and there because I have nothing to hide.

My claim that I wasn't on this board does indeed make sense if you had looked at my log-in times. I logged in right after ATPG's write up, but because I hadn't been paying enough attention to this game, I didn't know who to vote for, thus I decided to wait before casting my vote. Those who have played in games with me and had paid close attention to when I cast my votes would realize that I've done this quite often, regardless of my alignment.

As I said before, I had a nasty habit of missing the day phases and logging in at night when posting was closed. If I were mafia, and I had been following this game all along, I would not have failed to post/vote earlier. I am no longer new to mafia, and have played in and won as mafia before. I would not have made such a drastic mistake. Let's keep in mind that mafia generally don't miss votes, but instead lay low.

Because you are suspicious of my force breath claim, and not wrongfully so, go ahead and lynch me to prove it.

Vote: wideyedwanderer.

Another heroic defense... wideyedwanderer gives it his all.

It's hard to say how useful this is when the rest of his contributions have been rare and brief. That makes his heroic defense less convincing, because now it looks like all he cares about is surviving.

Wow, you guys really don't know how to read me do you. So many times when I'm townie, you all want to lynch me. I'm not as active in this game because of RL as I have stated before. And as for the active power I was using last night, I have been using that power since the beginning of the game. It is a protection on one player each night. So it may not be a good idea to lynch me.

Vote: WEW because I get a scum vibe from him, and also to save myself.

Delayed reaction once again by Diana.

She is always like 100 posts behind the rest of you guys. That's why she pops out of nowhere, responds to stuff from several pages ago, and then disappears again.

It gets better when there's less people around and less to read. But this is classic Diana, and people should know it by now. It's no different from Khazaar making 10 posts in a game, or Yaseikhaan making 1 post a round or every other round. It's just how it goes.

Vote Chaotix

I believe WEW. I don't believe that is is sith at least not right now. Whilst he may become one latter. I do not think he has been going out killing people.

Captain Blackadder probably understands WEW, being a less chatty player himself.

Why are you trying to lynch my Sith partner, Diana?

Beskar is having fun, but if you want a truly sadistic post-death mafioso, you need to have Andres or Kagemusha messing with you.

They are the masters of being mafia ghosts.

My favorite thing is when they pretend they're neither dead nor mafia, to trick townies who aren't paying attention into following their lead.

It's hilarious because it sometimes works.

Frozen is a decent choice, he's backed up a bit since I FoSed him a couple pages back, trying to retreat from the spotlight?

Psychonaut spreading the suspicion around. He's a master at doing this without people noticing how scummy he is.

ArpeggiateTHIS2 replaces Link

What I wouldn't give for a 60+ player game where 10 people don't drop out.

I get so tired of this. We need good active serious players, and lots of them.

Yeah, I think something is off with him.

All the Sith so far have done a delightful dance around everyone's radar. They can even talk to pevergreen without springing the trap. The mice are freely eating the cheese, and the cat doesn't notice.

pevergreen admits that catching scum by analysis or gut isn't his strong suit. I can accept that.

Vote: TinCow, he replaced Jolt who hasn´t voted in five turns in a row. I presume it´s because of the importance of the role, so I´m hoping that it´s a badguy...

No I set it up so that if I did have to replace a Sith, this kind of logic wouldn't work.

I also hated seeing 1/6th of the game disappear due to inactivity or dropouts. My game was designed for a bunch of players and the Sith are too strong, in retrospect, for the 40 player game to have been viable.

Seems the choice is either WEW or Chaotix now. As such, I will

Unvote; Vote: Chaotix

Furthermore, I think Joooray must be destroyed.

Tincow's instincts thus far have had him hop all over Kagemusha, and now two Dark Jedi.

The flood of "information" from the investigation results and talks about the viability of allying with Dark Jedi are what turn him away from these candidates. Shame he let up on Kagemusha, for TC anyway.

I rather like watching Kage go to work on the town. It's magnificent, but in all seriousness watch his behavior. I swear there are tells. You all saw the tells.

Neither. Your post is one of the reasons he still must die. You make it clear that he claims a faction other than Jedi. Third parties are not to be trusted.

Later reverses this call if and only if we can verifiably keep an eye on them. As of this writing I still have no idea if this is a good idea, but my guess is that focusing on Sith hunting is far superior to focusing on Dark Jedi hunting. Pressure on the Dark Jedi, but remind them they will stay alive if they hunt Sith, put them in a very tough position of having to help the side they know can lynch them at any time, as opposed to the side who *might* be able to murder them if they break through the Dark Jedi's defenses.

As a neutral, the call is easy; I'd support the side which is in power. Currently the Jedi are powerful and have the Dark jedi caught out. They have to help or be destroyed.

They can plot to do evil things but outright doing them is death, so they have to fall in line.

They're like rebellious soldiers. They'll fire a gun at the enemy if they're worried the enemy will kill them, or if they're worried that their superiors will shoot them if they don't shoot at the enemy. They can be useful, you just need to crack the whip.

If you don't find the Sith in time for the endgame, though, it gets real tricky as the Dark Jedi can side with the Sith and wipe out the town. It's too late to stop them then because killing Dark Jedi doesn't help the Jedi win the game.

First Place

WEW: (11) Nightbringer, Joooray, Yaropolk, Ironside, Skooma Addict, Cecil XIX, WEW, Diana Abnoba, ArpeggiateTHIS, Chaotix, Ignoramus

Second Place

Chaotix: (6) Beefy187, Yaseikhaan, Sasaki, Psychonaut, Captain Blackadder, Tincow

Third Place

Diana Abnoba: (4) Seon, God Emperor, Jarema, Frozen in Ice

Fourth Place

Joooray: (3) Kagemusha, Slysnake, Double A
Tincow: (3) Khazaar, Renata, Warman

Fifth Place

Sasaki Kojiro2: (2) Robbiecon, Diamondeye
Frozen in Ice: (2) pever, Autolycus

By now, WEW is the top lynch. Chaotix would make an excellent lynch, you need to get rid of his Force Breath to be able to truly keep him in line and threaten his life.

In this game you don't get it back once you lose it. It's already pretty ridiculous how often people get it.

The RNG is also starting to favor Force Ghost for the Jedi. I'm contemplating removing it from the random list, but I can't do that. Besides, if these guys turn Sith that helps the Sith have more Force Ghosts which can remove Jedi Force Ghosts.

Ultimately the game is still balanced because anything the Jedi get, the Sith can steal from them. That's the mental calculation I made. If it doesn't pan out, it doesn't pan out. Blame the random gods. Random choices win and lose games all the time.



Wideyedwanderer was a Jedi on the dark side of the Force. Surviving in this manner gained him another dark side point, but he's not a Dark Jedi yet.

He survived with Force Breath. The lack of deaths are leading to a situation where the Jedi, on the whole, are surviving longer as a faction and therefore gaining more advanced abilities for the endgame.

These no-lynch situations still favor the Jedi, because that means more deaths the Sith have to inflict on their own. It lengthens the game and makes it harder for them to lie and hide.

Day Eleven: How a bad lynch can be good, Part One

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Sasaki is always there to start the round. He either likes this game a lot or our schedules are really in synch. I like the former idea better so I'm just going to assume that's the case. :D

Thank you random.org.

Iggy decides to kill someone, after all the pressure that's on him.

Not only that, Belisarius II decides to protect Iggy and go light side.

These moves turn the tide back in the town's favor.

You'd think after these awesomesauce moves the town would get its act together and leave Ignoramus alone, finally, and forever, seeing as he now has the highest connection to the light side of the Force out of EVERYONE IN THE GAME and he was ATTACKED BY 2 SITH and he KILLED A SITH.

But no.... no.... he's still a suspect. I nearly wept for the lad.

Remember: if it's not logical or reasonable, it's probably townies doing it. Sorry lads, I love you guys, but it's the truth. I see it every game. Here in a remarkable amount, but it's every game really.

I swear I'm going to have my mafia partners start acting like townies who aren't paying close attention from now on. It's the only way to truly blend in, in a large game.

Besides the lurking what stands out to me is the things like "between the three, he has the worst defense" which would suggest careful and intense reading, and yet he posts very infrequently.

Sasaki makes note of Cecil's behavior.

If he had a track record of different behavior, I like this case. But as with all newbies, this is an observation of a behavior that could be typical for Cecil XIX, which he says it is.

At least it is attempting to derive motive from the possible psychological implications of his behavior, and that's why I like it. I like reasoned, psychological cases on suspects.

Not only does he post infrequently, he is also one of the last people to vote on a bandwagon from what I've seen

If this were an atypical townie behavior, or atypical of Cecil, it would be an indicator.

But this is something townies do more than mafia do. And again, we don't have a track record on Cecil yet.

That's why these cases aren't so good.

Vote Cecil XIX

He is either scum or a very unhelpfull townie both of which deserve death.

I dunno, Captain B. A lot of townies are "unhelpful", and lynching them all can lead to ruin.

Look at ACIN. he's not exactly spitting out logical cases, and Warman barely posts beyond voting. Is this considered helpful in that sense? What would happen if we spent several rounds lynching them?

Meh. You want to watch out for the players which can fool you all game long by easily blending in with the town and getting behind your guard.

Warman, ACIN, Cecil, for example, aren't actively trying to lead the town in a given direction, which gives the rest of the players more power during the daytime. It's harder for mafia to win games if they have no control over the discussion.

Psychonaut and Ironside are trying to push the discussion in a certain direction. Kagemusha has gained the trust of the most proven townie in the game. These are the dangerous mafiosi for the endgame.

"unhelpful" townies are dangerous if they sneak under the radar perpetually, but these guys can otherwise be vigged, scanned, or ignored.

Personally, I'd scan them. Mafia won't find them as threatening because they're not dominating the discussion, so they're likely to survive the night. Then you know about living people instead of dead people.

If necessary I'd vig some, scan the others. Vig the most distracting ones that are totally unhelpful in every way, and scan the rest/lurkers etc.

Given that "unhelpful" townies are still townies, they aren't a great move to remove. It's why I was all up and down defending TheStranger in the Daggers in the night game. You could tell he was innocent, just full of "personality" that clashed with the sensibilities of others. Better was to focus on actual suspects (Like Kagemusha, or Kukrikhan...)

The Grandmaster was a Dark Jedi?

And Joooray, his successor, is likely one as well.

Good job on Ignoramus for getting a Sith; I'd say there's very little chance he's not on our side now. I'd be interested to hear if he has any idea on who the Master is.

I'll go with Cecil for now, but I may change my vote later this phase.

Vote: Cecil XIX

Violating Askthepizzaguy's townie rules, volume XXXVII:

1. Asking rhetorical questions aloud that everyone knows the answer to. Comes off sounding fake, which it is.

2. Spreading suspicion onto someone (Joooray) without voting them. Which sounds scummy, because it is.

3. Good thing for town happens, must praise it. Reflexive "I'm townie" response that actual townies rarely share. Trying too hard.

4. "Our side" instead of "Jedi". Subtle, very close to the "we we we" response in psychological terms.

5. Blending in. Other people are joining the wagon on Cecil without stating reasons. Other scummy behaviors plus obvious blending in tactics sounds scummy to me.

I think the neutral thing is getting to Chaotix. He's acting like he's mafia because of his survive win condition. It messes with your head and puts you in a deceptive state.

I'm about 90 percent sure that Sasaki and Captain Blackadder is innocent or has been innocent so far.
But I cannot agree with Cecil lynch.

1.because Chaotix is on the wagon and I still think Chaotix is scummy
2.because I have this theory. If one of the member on their team is inactive, others will be active. Just to balance things out.
3.because it would be a shame to lose another lynch opportunity with force breath.

I think many people by now have force breath. So to lynch someone we must lynch them twice.
I don't think Cecil case is strong enough to get him lynched twice. Its much quicker to ask our vigilantes to take care of him.

I will Vote: Chaotix as his been scummy constantly.
His last post was scummy as well.

It was, though. I'm glad my reaction was felt by others.

I think I'll go with Psycho/pever on this. Diamondeye should know by now about relying on WoG, 'specially in a game with so many replacements.

Vote: Diamondeye

TBH a fair reaction.

It was bad reasoning to rely on the WOG to take care of suspects.

Not only would I likely replace inactive Sith, but wanting people to get wogged (likely townies) doesn't sound right.

To me it seems that Choatix is trying to deflect suspicion in any way possible to someone other than him. And on the other side of things those scans make Diamondeye seem like he is a Dark Jedi that has force breath. I'm going to go with the former for now. vote: Chaotix

Yes but a townie might also try to move suspicion onto someone other than themselves. Getting suspicion on actual suspects is one of the main goals of being a townie.

But why, exactly, is Chaotix' behavior different? What's scummy about it, and why? I'm always interested in the why.

The pressure on Chaotix here doesn't catch any Sith, but it does make Chaotix think that death is always around the corner. With less freedom to stab everyone to death willy-nilly, he's less of a problem for the town and possibly an ally.

Gotta crack that whip.

At tgiving with family and posting from phone, so you'll have to forgive my brevity.

vote: Cecil xix

Too hard to analyze from phone, following sasaki's lead.

BUT WHO WAS PHONE???

Tincow's instincts obviously aren't as good when he's not even reading the thread. I still gotta give him credit for voting, which is more than some townies can be bothered with.

Tincow is up there with Sasaki and Ignoramus and a few others for townie MVP at the moment. It's a close race.

No way are we lynching diamondeye.

Sasaki always says things with confidence and certainty that have me scratching my head.

Does he mean he's not likely to be lynched? That diamondeye shouldn't be lynched? Is he hinting that Diamondeye is a scanned townie? Is this bait for someone to fall into a trap?

I never know. It's probably something simple, but with Sasaki I'm spending time guessing what he's up to. I'm the host and I still have no idea. Sasaki is always suspicious....

i agree, i have been beginning to feel very suspicious of pever, could you post those quotes maybe?

On the other hand, pevergreen has the dubious distinction of being a dead proven townie who was slain by a Dark Lord of the Sith, that other townies still don't trust.

Rule number 1A: pevergreen is sometimes irrationally suspicious....

Still, post 1937 is almost convincing.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230479



Joooray gives another heroic defense.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230487

Also, I forgot in my previous post, Vote: Chaotix, he has also thrown me off for a while now.
I don't feel the case against DE and although I find it off-putting that Cecil comes out of hiding as soon as he is put under pressure and with a somewhat whimsy excuse, I will give him the benefit of a newcomer for now and the write-ups suggests the he survived (vig-)attack only with luck, which speaks more for low ranking Jedi than Sith Master or The Dark One. The Sith Apprentice is accounted for last night after all.

At this rate, the Dark Jedi will all kill each other off.

Man, Chaotix and Joooray really wanted each other dead.... the two Jedi who really should understand each other's motives.

Look up "Dark Jedi" on Wookieepedia and you'll understand how totally in-character it is for these guys to be doing this.

Dark Jedi are less trustworthy than a guy named Sasaki Kojiro wearing a bloody trenchcoat and twirling his mustache while chewing on a toothpick and flipping a coin over and over again in a dark alley at midnight.

Town needs to get it into its head that if we magically stumble across a sith in our voting, and they claim force breath (which they will have), well... Town, get your bleedin' act together. Force breath does not equal innocence.

Seon, you're working quite hard to discredit me. Why? Your reasoning is based off things that have been proclaimed false multiple times.

1. pevergreen is right. If you have a suspect, Force Breath shouldn't deter you from lynching them.

2. Seon is working to discredit pevergreen because townies don't know any better. They were there wayyyy ahead of the Sith trying to discredit pevergreen. Even as Kagemusha is telling me in his quicktopic about how he plans to further discredit pevergreen, Seon is out there doing it, because townies don't know better.

Townies don't know bout my force ghost.

Day Eleven: Why did I break this up into two parts? The mystery may never be solved. Part Two.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well, pever, I can only answer that I must have missed those posts. (or forgot about them completely). I thought that it was quite unusual to have a confirmed, unkillable and unlynchable townie and thought that there has to be some kind of catch.

Eh, as we know that you are confirmed townie for all eternity now, do you want my role PM?

The catch is that even with all those things in his favor, and all the info he's received, pevergreen still can't single-handedly solve this game.

I broke the townie information network this time. It can still work but it is not overpowered like it was in Capo III.

The investigations are useful, but town is slow to realize how to use them effectively. Vig killings are useful, but there's a down side. Protections are useful, but not all-powerful. Sharing information is useful, but it is still difficult to outright catch Sith this way. There is counterplay.

EVERYONE HAS FORCE BREATH

IF WE VIG PEOPLE WE BECOME MAFIA

I GIVE UP

DAYKILL:SASAKI

If you keep vig killing Jedi you fall to the Dark Side which is reversible. It is to discourage everyone from mass vigilante killings, as Sigurd bluffed in the previous game (the bluff worked). Here, the bluff isn't a bluff, there is a negative consequence to vig killing, in that if you keep it up, you fall to the dark side and your death means failure, you don't win with the town because your soul is tainted. Those you killed will win if Jedi win, because their lives were taken from them unnecessarily.

Not everyone has force breath, and once you lose it, you don't get it back.

One strategy could be to remove force breath from everyone, and vig kill people who are actual suspects.

Vote on who should be vig killed, and townies should volunteer to be lynched if they have force breath. That's one idea. Don't let a non-sanctioned vigilante kill anyone. When they fall too far to the Dark Side, tell them to stop killing, and then block them or redeem them somehow. Maybe the Sith will kill them as they are a threat anyway.

Methinks Sasaki was being sarcastic or overdramatic here on purpose. I don't think I made a broken game.

Vote: Jooray He's probably a dark jedi.

Correct!



Diamondeye: (7) Psychonaut, Ignoramus, Autolycus, pevergreen, Yaseikhaan, Beefy, CecilXIX

Cecil XIX: (6) Cblackadder, Sasaki, Chaotix, Csargo, Tincow, Robbiecon

Chaotix: (6) God Emperor, Nightbringer, ArpeggiateTHIS, Seon, Joooray, Frozen in Ice

Joooray: (2) Jarema, Yaropolk

Diana Abnoba: (1) Diamondeye

Tincow: (1) Khazaar


Vote is kind of spread out here. No mass wagons! Actual chance of lynching a neutral instead of a Jedi. Still not close on any actual mafia.

I don't believe Nightbringer is guilty.

I scanned him one night when there were lots of kills and he was inactive that night.

Correct!

Seriously, the very first investigation, Investigation I, was very very useful in determining who wasn't a starting Sith, because they were always killing at night, which is an active ability.

Shame it wasn't used more, before the Sith learned how to fool such a scan.

Needed to be combined with Investigation II to see through Cloak, but WHO would have been using Cloak in the first ten rounds? Why the Sith of course.

Investigation I was really your most accurate scan for learning anything useful early on. Investigation II - how light they are - barely mattered.

Investigation IV was really useful before the Sith learned how to fool it.

Investigation III remains the most useful of all, but Sol Jade died before he could get it and as of this writing, Ronen Durdon hasn't learned it yet.

Sure we've lynched no mafia yet, but surely ATPG won't make the game impossible for the town.
Maybe this is like God Father. If we lynch the Sith Lord (twice) we win.


Though if I am Sith, then I think i've been doing better then in God Father III.

I really would try very hard not to make it impossible on the town.

I don't like broken games, and worse is when it's my game that's broken. I'd feel like a worse failure than I did in the Chicago Soiree and the Scourge of Ephesus combined. (shudder just thinking about how much I sucked in those games.... must... blot... out.... from... mind)

Also, take note: Beefy says things like "If I am Sith, I'm awesome" in games where he's really townie. He's a strange cat, like me.

I love that people try to do serious analysis on Strawberry or ACIN.

There are players that normal analysis fails on. Reenk Roink, pevergreen, Csargo, and ACIN are four of them.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230626

Nice attempt by Nightbringer but the premise is flawed. Sith don't necessarily vote together, in fact voting together like this implies she's innocent, because it would be a rather odd move to vote with your mafia partner all the time, as it seems people make the erroneous assumption mafia do this even though they don't ever do it.

Also, any analysis of Diana Abnoba I've ever seen has been flawed. She's never been caught through analysis, but she has been falsely lynched based on bad analysis.

So remember my hints: She's always out of sync with the rest of you, trying to catch up, she's barely ever on the computer, and when she defends herself it always makes her seem scummier, and she doesn't know how to not sound that way. And that's as town, or mafia. But when she has mafia partners who can help her avoid making mistakes, she will sneak under your radar better, I'd think.

Basically, like me, if you think Diana is guilty, she's probably not. If you think she's townie, double-check your work.

ATPG you missed my vote for chaotix.

Everyone makes mistakes.

My vote is on ACIN , atpg :)

FINE! FINE!!!

I was drunk this entire time. Are you happy?

*throws beer bottle at God Emperor*

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230683

Ignoramus tells the whole tale to pever, who faithfully reports it to the town, who decides that Ignoramus is total scum for randomly killing a Sith.

Never ceases to amaze. :D

Vote:Ignoramus. So you just decide to kill someone randomly. That is clearly not Jedi behaviour. You need to go.

Obvious Sith is obvious.

Hmph I'm going to go with that, atleast either way we can get the killcount down a notch.
Vote: Ignoramus

Obvious Sith.... is obvious???

Agreed, he should have gone a couple of rounds ago, he just slipped through our net :)

Vote: Ignoramus

Obvious.... D'oh.

Okay apparently Kagemusha's vote blended right in.

Obvious Sith isn't obvious to the town, and Obvious Town isn't obvious to the town.

Vote: Ignoramus

Everyone is getting slaughtered. Could be worse.

Yes, you could kill your most light-side top ranked non-Dark Jedi Master who just killed a Sith while being attacked by two Sith during his very first kill attempt evar.

While I don't approve of Iggy killing randomly

Nightbringer, tell us which night it was that ignoramus scanned you.

Ignoramus, don't say anything about it yet.

This is a good tactic. I like what Sasaki is doing here.

2 hours remain.



Cecil XIX: (8) C Blackadder, Chaotix, Csargo, Tincow2, Robbiecon, WEW, Autolycus, Diamondeye

Diamondeye: (6) Psychonaut, Ignoramus, pevergreen, Beefy, CecilXIX, Renata

Ignoramus: (4) Kagemusha, Greyblades, slysnake2, Antikingwarmancake88
Chaotix: (4) ArpeggiateTHIS2, Seon, Joooray, Frozen in Ice

Nightbringer: (3) Sasaki2, ByzantineKnight, Yaseikhaan2

Diana Abnoba: (2) Nightbringer, Jarema

Slysnake2: (1) Yaropolk2
Tincow2: (1) Khazaar
ACIN: (1) God Emperor

Yeah no one changed the tally between here and when Cecil died.

Shot in the dark lynch of a quiet player. At least it wasn't Ignoramus and Joooray again.

Ignoramus: (4) Kagemusha, Greyblades, slysnake2, Antikingwarmancake88

Oh.



Ignoramus, everyone loves you. You are so popular.

Cecil XIX becomes a Force Ghost, and he was an Initiate who started with that power. Of the Jedi, only pevergreen and Cecil started with that power, iirc. I think only Psychonaut had it from the Sith, iirc... have to check.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Post 3360 of the Game Thread

Wall of the Commentary


Episode III: Revenge of the Puns

Gosh, this is a pretty long commentary edition!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Day Twelve- Supertownies are super-scummy: Part One

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

5 kill attempts? This is looking very grim.

vote:nightbringer

Right on cue, Sasaki comments first.

I have to admit, this kind of post usually triggers my scum button. It feels like a nervous statement of the obvious, which scum do a lot.

But it's not. Maybe Sasaki is playing games with your head.

vote: Sasaki Mostly just on principle for that last comment.

Case in point.

@renata: Us townies are in trouble I fear, don't you think fellow townies?

It's more obvious he's baiting you on purpose here, with the "us" and the "fellow" townies stuff.

Quit playing games with my head....

We should probably be lynching someone who was not a replacement and who has not recently been the aim of a known-not-town attack, for best chance at getting one of the big bads. For that first part, the list is:

a completely inoffensive name
AntiKingWarmancake
Autolycus
ByzantineKnight
Captain Blackadder
Chaotix
Csargo
Diamondeye
Diana Abnoba
Frozen in Ice
God Emperor
Greyblades
Ignoramus
Jarema
Joooray
Kagemusha
Khazaar
Nightbringer
Psychonaut
Renata
Robbiecon
Seon
wideyedwanderer

Unfortunately for my suspicions of their changed behavior, neither Sasaki nor TinCow is in that group in their current incarnations. So

unvote: Sasaki

That's 22 people not counting myself, just about getting to be a reasonable size to start looking at posts and votes as a whole.

And here, Renata knows she's a Sith. Watch her activity level suddenly spike.

It's getting down to it, probably. 33 left (plus three town votes from dead people potentially), how many of them not town?

Still, she says she stopped being busy IRL so, this could be not a fair cop. But hey, it's stuff that usually triggers my scum meter, and she's doing it just after she became scum.

Even if it isn't a reliable trigger, it's an effective one by sheer dumb luck this time, perhaps.

ill vote:diana abnoba for the reasons ive stated already. however, i would like to hear what other cases people make as there really isnt much on diana abnoba.

Yeah. The case on Diana was simply that she was posting once a day or less.

Why would she keep doing this if it was racking up votes for her, if she had any say about it?

Flawed reasons, but at least its a different suspect.

Vote: Kagemusha

Correct!

New suspects = awesomesauce.

Vote: Acin for now. .

All that town confusing behavior

This is like voting ACIN for having a completely inoffensive name.

5 attemts? Ouch, we realy need to get that down. Vote: Ignoramus

This one was just painful to watch. It is wrong in so many different ways.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053231224

Ironside antagonizes Chaotix. This might turn Chaotix even more towards the town and less friendly with the Sith... who knows.

Back from holiday now. Can anyone tell me if Renata has ever been attacked?

Oh Tincow, the combination of skill and luck you're displaying shows me that you are indeed strong with the Force.

Right as Renata turns Sith, Tincow is accidentally all over her.

I disagree. I've never seen Seon do that before as mafia. And that will gather too much attention on him.

Beefy is thinking critically here, and it's good to see him roll up his sleeves and get into the fray.

Seriously? Ignoramus is still alive?

vote: Ignoramus

Some just don't let it go. It's a good thing Double A doesn't have a vig kill ability...

He kind of did kill a Sith.

Seon- voice of reason???

Look at what you've gone and done, townies. How could you let this happen?

unvote, vote:chaotix

Picks up on Chaotix' nervous reaction to Ironside's pressure.

Vote: Joooray, I hope you will do the same.

Before he edited it out, he had posted a paraphrased version of investigation results that show Joooray is on the Dark side of the spectrum, but still not recruited.

This is basically an innocent result. He's not Sith. But once again, people make the mistake and think OMG DARKSIDE MUST KILLZ.

Vote: Joooray I think he is a Dark Jedi.

Correct!

Not even following the game too closely and she can see this. It's obvious, isn't it?

Pfft. You just told the town you're trying to create discord and you're not working in the town's interests.

If it was at all in doubt before, which is unlikely since you're a confirmed Sith, then you have removed it.

I'm going to take the same route I did with Beskar: just ignore him and he will go away.

The exchange between Chaotix and Ironside is funny to watch. Chaotix is acting super nervous here.

He's trying too hard to discredit a known, dead Sith, IMO. He's already died in disgrace, trying to further tarnish that image only tarnishes your own. It smells desperate.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053231296

Cecil XIX takes a wild stab at a suspect, and gives it his all.

Nice attempt.

So wrong.

His own case is undermined by the data he uses on Sasaki, which proves that kill numbers were high before and after Sasaki rejoined, and on the night Sasaki could send in orders, kills were lower than average.

It is a bad case, but a valiant attempt by a new player.

I would say at this point, lynching Joooray is a bad idea. Thinking about it over the past couple of days has made me change my mind.

Basically, this is our situation:

There is the town, there are the Sith, and there are any number of Dark Jedi.

The Sith are out to kill us. Period. The Sith are also clearly out to kill the Dark Jedi.

The Dark Jedi just want to survive. They are Neutral. Since the Sith are trying to kill the Dark Jedi as well, right now their best chance of survival is to team up with the town.

And if the town and the Dark Jedi get rid of the Sith together, they have both satisfied their victory conditions.

But if we lynch one Dark Jedi, if we take the policy that Dark Jedi should die, then we turn a potential ally into a certain enemy. There is no way any Dark Jedi will want to help the town if we start killing them- they're out for survival, so they'll basically become a bunch of serial killers we have to deal with.


So... I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd much rather have them on our side than against us.

In other words:

I am a Dark Jedi, and I am allied with the Dark Jedi Grandmaster.

Please don't kill me or my Dark ally. We'll play nice.

True, but anyone can become one.

Are you one?

Obvious Dark Jedi is obvious.

Has Joooray been scanned? What does that even really mean? We've been down this route three times already and our fingers have been burned by it every time. On top of that is Ironside saying he's "EVIL", that's reason enough to not go after him. Nope, not buying it, not doing this again.

vote: Diamondeye

He should have gone last round, he's been interacting weirdly, posting scummily and acting inconsistent.

1. Rhetorical questions posed to no one in particular.

2. Reminder of bad things that happened before.

3. Focusing on the Sith behavior, as if that automatically means you should do the opposite.


None of this tickles anyone's nose hairs?

Vote: Diamondeye

Just about done caring about this game.

By now, pevergreen has probably seen the Jedi Holocron data Joooray sent him. He realizes how enormous his task as a coordinator truly is, and nearly resigns in defeat.

He basically asked me in private if he could drop out. This isn't pevergreen's strong area, and he's already low on enthusiasm since he died so early.

Jooray was scanned last night. He is susceptible to the Dark side

Such a bad thing to announce publicly.

Imagine if they could recruit him tonight. What a world of hurt the Jedi would be in.

Don't let the Sith become Grandmaster. Holy poop on a stick, DON'T.

Playing with fire here. You guys are lucky Renata is Sith now. If they had picked Joooray, woe be upon ye. I'm cereal.

So was Tincow. And dcmort.

Mafia are usually on top of everything the townies "should" know and understand.

This is a good reminder, but the source is just so, so scummy. He's trying to look as townie as possible.

My apologies. Forgot the second half.
that was supposed to be "he is susceptible to the Dark side, and may already be turned to the Dark Side "

That's not what it said.... this is like the third or fourth time the exact wording of the result was replaced by paraphrasing which made the result look worse than it was.

Townies aren't learning. The scum know what the score is. The fact that they deeply understand this game should be a warning sign, an indicator of their guilt.

Alas, no....

I have no idea who to vote for now; I seriously think the town's in trouble. The inability to scan Sith makes scanning almost useless, and there are so many suspicious players that the chances of getting the right one is next to 0.

But as I have to vote:

Vote: Diana Abnoba - still suspicious in my mind.

No, scanning isn't useless!

What did the Grandmaster say about this? That the Sith Lord/Dark One had the ability to fool scans.

What use is fooling a scan into thinking you're guilty?

He's going to come out smelling like a rose! He's going to be hiding as a totally non-recruitable Light Sider!

And that's exactly what Kagemusha scanned as!

That's what Psychonaut scanned as!

You guys already found the two masters of the Sith, you just don't know it yet.

Use your logic: In Capo III, Dons scanned as innocent.

That made it possible to narrow down who they were because almost everyone else scanned as guilty after all the killing.

Here, Sith scan as total light siders, because that's how they're tricking the scans. But that's not going to be the popular scan choice! To really blend in, they should scan as Dark Side, recruitable, because more than half the players are, and it's the perfect way to hide!

But the town just doesn't get it... and understandably so.

Your scans still work, you just need to combine them with reasoning and FAITHFUL reporting of those scans.

Investigators aren't enough in my games. You must use your brains as well. I hate having the town wait for detectives to save them.

Oddly familiar. Scans don't seem to be reliable. Post/in-thread behaviour should be the basis of voting IMHO.

Supertownie Sith Lord to the rescue.

Trying too hard.

I recall him later saying he read it wrong.

Regardless, its a third varience on that investigation return. However, even without that, we know he has killed, we know he has force lightning, a dark side power.

There was no variance... it was reported wrong.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053231414

Joooray gives another heroic defense.

I heart Joooray.

Joooray is clearly either Dark Jedi or Sith. Victory conditions clearly state that Dark Jedi are not part of the town. While they appear to be not quite as bad as the Sith, they're still not on our side.

Vote: Joooray

Being afraid of 'turning the Dark Jedi against us' is a bit misleading, as they're not on our side in the first place.

Tincow seems a bit schitzophrenic on this issue. He's for/against/for/against the Dark Jedi at various points.

This is maybe the only thing he's done all game which would falsely trigger my scumdar. So he's doing well.

I swear I make a "smells like scum" or "I've got a feeling about him" envoking post every game. I only voted for ignoramus because pretending to be a vigilante is a classic mafia move and voting for jJoooray would be an even worse choice than him what with being head of the order and all.

Unvote, vote: ironsides Sorry guy but you admitted your sith and admitting you're mafia rarely works out well unless your playing a game where you cant be lynched, like beefy's Noble sons. I just dont get why you would sell out just to pin a dark jedi lable on chaotix, couldn't you do it without revealing?

What did I say about townies and their bad votes?

Greyblades is acting like a townie here.

Day Twelve: More unnecessary two-parters, Part Two

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Double post!

Ok, I just learnt a whole bunch about this game.

Summarise:

Super uber great dark one guy: Not aligned with sith, has to kill them and be only one alive to win. He can ressurect sith. Anyone that is ressurected is sith, and remains sith.

Certain lightsaber forms take you to the dark side. Form 7: Juyo II is one of the two.
Certain powers take you to the dark side.
Certain powers move you to the light side, others enable you to push someone else to it/prevent them from going to dark side.
There is a power that lets you use dark side abilities without turning to the darkside.
There is a power that lets you learn dark side powers you are attacked with.
There is absolutes at the end of the spectrum, if you hit it, you can't be converted. Otherwise you can. Very few will ever hit it.


Joooray is not a good lynch anymore.

pevergreen redeems himself as a townie leader.

This information is ALL vital to pass along. And not focusing on chaotix or Joooray increases the likelihood that the Sith will have to kill them instead of the real Jedi, and increases the likelihood that both Dark Jedi Master and Grandmaster will work with the town.

Very powerful chess move here.

That Jedi Holocron really came in handy.

It's at this point that pevergreen drops his load of information and sits down, exhausted, and not sure he can continue being a leader. He read the holocron, congratulated me on the game design, and then said he hated me.



All of these were strong compliments.

Dark Jedi have the choice of going either way.

3 factions in the game
Town (jedi)
Sith (sith master and apprentice)
Sith (dark one)

Dark jedi are between one and two.
We know what joooray is, and i think he will come towards the light side. If we take him out, we risk an unknown becoming the grandmaster, possibly a sith. Sith can become the GM.

The force is strong with you.

As of this moment, Joooray is a Dark Jedi, and a very powerful one. Do you have an actual planned course of action to convert him back to the light side within the next few turns? He either needs to be redeemed now or eliminated. Leaving him in limbo, able to go either direction depending on how the wind blows, is a very bad idea.

Correct!



At this point God Emperor points out that Andres is being suspicious.

He's a dead Jedi.

More totally townie behavior. At this rate the Sith can only be Tincow, Sasaki, or Psychonaut. I like those odds.

More like "very little light side in him", wasn't it? Without knowing how a Sith apprentice or random dark jedi would scan, you can't be certain that isn't exactly how they'd turn up. In fact this from pever:



suggests strongly that that's the case. Cecil, the "chosen one", was probably at the light side extreme. He'd have turned up entirely light. The Dark One and the Sith leader at the other end, no light at all. Everyone else, including some of the bad guys/neutrals, somewhere in between.

I do think there is a point that the Dark One himself or the Sith leader would be less likely to show up as something iffy than as something more clearly townie, which probabably does make Diamondeye unlikely to be either of those things.

Oh, and Renata now is looking awfully supertownie.

Even sharing some game-crucial information. Gosh, now it's between Tincow, Sasaki, Psychonaut, and Renata for the title of who's acting the most helpful to the town. All good players, half of them Sith.

the dark one is immune to all but 1 type of scan, that is only available to the grandmaster. Theres a bunch of GM powers.

As to keeping an eye of Joooray...don't ask the impossible. I know the roughly what he can do, and how much of it. If he attacks someone, we will know.

The darkside powers are quite obvious that they are darkside (like the force coversion - converts to sith, thats darkside. Theres a few defence ones that are darkside, but jedi dont have a way to learn them.
Jedi powers
Universal powers
Sith powers

You have to be jedi to get jedi ones, sith to get sith ones (with a few exceptions) and anyone can get universal.

Too much info here, pevergreen. I disagree any of this was necessary to reveal.

https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/...wok-mordor.jpg

No? Nothing? Not even a titter? Tough Star Destroyer.

unvote, vote:Diana Abnoba

I don't think going after Dark Jedi is a good strategy. I'm doubtful about greyblades-sith pretending to not know that ironsides is dead.

He wasn't pretending. That's pure, decent, unadulterated townie behavior right thar.

So if we now have two kind of results saying Jooray is "not strong with light side" and that "he is susceptible to the Dark side, and may already be turned to the Dark Side".
How can we monitor him? If he is susceptible ro the Dark side, wouldnt he be a perfect candidate for the Sith to convert, while the new result says he could even be turned to dark side? I cant understand why he should be kept alive. Vote: Jooray

Kage, no....

He's so scummy! Come on guys, aren't you seeing this? He's way too focused on Dark Jedi. The consensus from the townie leadership is that the Dark Jedi are fine for now.

Kage wants them dead. He likes playing dangerously.

You misunderstand the concept of recruitment in this game. The Sith won't recruit until one of them dies, and when they recruit, at least the Sith Lord can pretty much recruit almost anybody. That's what the holocron says.
Have you even bothered to read my last posts? Or why do you bring up these old scan results? Have you read what I said about the the interpretation of scan results?

Good questions. But Kagemusha misunderstands nothing.

The fact that he's "misunderstanding" ANYTHING implies that he's a scumbag.

Where's a good old fashioned OMGUS reaction? Vote the traitor!!!

unvote, vote:kagemusha

Sith are dark jedi hunting rather than scum hunting, and that post takes the cake in that regard.

can't be bothered to reread extensively and see who else has been doing it

Triggers Sasaki's scumdar for like the third time this game, always based on his ENTIRELY scummy posts.

Come on, guys, he's RIGHT THERE! HIT HIM!!! HIT HIM!!! He's making errors! Bad ones! Get him!!!

Fos Sasaki. Have you lost your logic somewhere along the way? If we have a grandmaster suspectiple to the darkside and Igno just killed a sith.Who would the other Sith convert if he had even a cell of brain left?Edit: That should answer your post also Jooray.

Now Kagemusha has slipped into lecture mode.

Kagemusha has become a super-saiyan.

So, Tincow, Sasaki, Kagemusha, Psychonaut, and Renata are all acting like supertownies, among the remaining living suspects.

Of them, three are scumbags. All three Sith.

Super-townie. It's super-scummy. I did it in Swords and D20's Three when I lectured people about No Lynch on round one due to townie power roles.

Renata told me it was scummy. She was right.

All three Sith are guilty of it here. That's why it is an indicator. There are dozens of Jedi, only three Sith, and the Sith:Jedi ratio in the "supertownie" column is 3:2 presently.

Toss in Joooray and Chaotix if you want. They're on top of this game, and they're neutral, making it 5:2 scummy versus townie in the "supertownie" category.

Townies don't know what they're doing, with a few notable exceptions. Sith and neutrals are ALL OVER this game.


And now I see three Renata posts and a Kagemusha post. The Sith are now dominating the discussion.


Diana takes the lead. She's got Force Breath and Force Ghost, and started the game with neither and was a lowly initiate with the weakest (and thusfar, least effective) protection power in the game. She already begins the game on the dark side of the spectrum.

Lynching her will make her fall further to the dark side, but that's ok because she hasn't vigged anyone yet.

Lynching inactives isn´t the worst idea, looking at people who have been replaced even though they should have been wogged probably isn´t either. The so called solid information (investigations) hane´t been all that sucsessful. Maybe it´s time for a new aproach Vote: Tincow

Points for being different. He's going after a super-townie kind of player. Tincow could have been recruited by now, too.

Joooray is trying his best to get back to the light side. And from what I read, I think its genuine.
I advice to leave Joooray alone for now

The townie info network flexes its muscles to spare Joooray.

Will Joooray be grateful? More important, will he be LOYAL?

Two. I'm not sure if it representative though, as I used Force Lightening, which could push one to the Dark Side faster than other ways, because of it being so cruel. At least that's why I deduce now afterwards.

An awfully brave thing to say to a group of Jedi. I killed one of you with Force Lightning.

This kind of honesty helps him out. I think the Jedi Order is ready to accept Joooray's plea for atonement and redemption.

Practically speaking, if it is to be between Diana and Diamondeye, then I'd rather lynch Diana. I don't believe Diamondeye is worse than a Dark Jedi, while Diana ... well, pever knows my thoughts on that. We'll see what happens.

unvote, vote: Diana Abnoba

I think Renata has more posts this round than all previous rounds combined. Not sure on that, but it's a massive spike in activity.

This really is an unusual shift, right after her conversion. Bad timing, or tell?



Diana is far in the lead now. She will be lynched, and she will survive.

I predict some vig will try to take her out, possibly succeed, and then she'll be a Jedi Force Ghost.

A better outcome than her being converted, possibly. This kind of delay also keeps the rest of the Jedi alive and well for longer, weakening the Sith's position. Just kill Kagemusha, guys.... you'd be all set.


Once he's gone, you own the remaining Sith team. But you will never win if you don't punish kagemusha for his damningly obvious Sith behavior.

I really think he pushed the envelope on purpose because he has cojones made out of unobtanium, but I swear to all that is holy, I'd have been crawling all over him for at least half of the posts he's made this game.

They violate basically all of my scum triggers that I use every game.

You're so lucky I'm not playing, Kage. *evil stare*

Day Thirteen, or: How I Made Massive Screw-ups And Learned to Deal With It.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So today, Robbiecon is slain. But only because I didn't read the Sith quicktopic all the way, I took their orders early, wrote them down, and never checked for changes. So I magically press the delete button and bring him back to life.

So, Robbiecon is proven innocent and Bip Kenner is proven not-Sith (not one of the Sith teams, anyway, since he was attacked by Sith. Could have been the other).

Because it's the endgame and this could have ruined the game for any of the Sith due to MY error, and the town gets massive advantages for this round and any round that robbie and blackadder survive, the only compensation I could offer was a Sith Force Ghost to Renata.

Sorry guys. Leaving it alone would have unbalanced the game, this was the only way. It's what I would have had to do if I noticed egregious cheating.


Anyways, let's read some gosh dang commentary.

Herp derp derp.

I think we can stop voting joooray.

People: send me stuff if you attacked someone.

Vote: Diana

Technically the writeup didn't prove Joooray was innocent, but perhaps pevergreen thought that Chaotix or Ignoramus were a Sith Lord attacking him.

If that was the logic, it was all wrong. But Sith dying is better than neutral Joooray dying. So that part is right.

pevergreen continues his subtle leadership style. Very decentralized and mostly hands-off.

A mini bandwagon forms on Diana Abnoba. Not at all unexpected. Why do you guys think she's still alive? She's total lynch bait.

imo this bandwagon is silly and is growing way too quickly. Iirc she was scanned as having used an ability (?) , which she did not explain what was, else it's about her inactivity. Just two days ago she did not even vote. Those who participated in the zelda mafia at TWC knows that her inactivity there was very similar to the inactivity she shows in this game.
People may ofc vote for her , but we are on day 15. Plenty of stuff in the game thread to go back and look at.

Autolycus is a person I have checked, and his posts are nothing but bandwagons and 'ay ay great leaders' x 3 times. He did not vote day 12 apparently, and imo, that's about the only thing that speaks in his favour. Might just as well show what it is I am thinking of.

'Our leaders' posts:

then there is a post like this which I don't know what to make of

I guess that would make the zelda game(?)... There Diana was Innocent and you were mafia. You didn't kill her, and that cost you your mafia victory . I don't exactly understand why you wish to use that in this game

This post is just... She didn't show up yesterday durring her bandwagon and the thread is closed durring the night phase. There is hardly anything on her, and she as obviously not had the chance to defend herself, unless you think she avoids this thread on purpose?

Basically this is just your mafia style imo. You follow the leads of others and else you just stay quiet to avoid detection. I don't like your playing style in this game and for now I will vote for you, but I will ofc keep searching the thread , which I would encourage everybody to do

Vote: Autolycus

So after some 6 or 7 votes on Diana for no reason, God Emperor tries to go for another option.

It's lemming time - Vote: Diana Abnoba.

Seriously, though?

Do we consider being a lemming a good thing?

*townie pizza has a grumpy face*

I'd like to vote:Nightbringer.

Please reference his shallow vote against Grayblades yesterday, among with a few other things from earlier that I'll drag up tomorrow if I have time and no one else has done it first.

Renata-Sith avoids both the Autolycus and Diana wagons, which are now almost tied.

Vote: Chaotix

There's a chain missing from his posts, like he's started at A gone to B and then to C elsewhere, but in his posts he simply goes from A to C. What are you hiding?

Psychonaut-Sith goes for the dark jedi. Things are now getting interesting. How does Chaotix react?

"What are you hiding?" seems a bit fake-sounding to me. But hey, I know the answer so maybe it's just obvious in retrospect.

For lack of better targets for vigilantes tonight, I'd take Pyscho and ACIN.

Jack Krauser says: NOW you're talking.

Psychonaut is a Sith Lord, and ACIN is a jedi who desperately wants to kill everyone he can for the lulz.

Both need to die.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053232422

DIY makes a big case on Nightbringer.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053232431

Nightbringer uses Heroic Defense on DIY. It's super effective!

Wild DIY has fainted!

Nightbringer gains 15 exp points.

What's this? Nightbringer is evolving! Press B to cancel.

Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun da dun dun dun dun dun dun dun da dun

Nightbringer evolved into Nightreaper!

Yeah, you read it right. I took that joke all the way to its natural conclusion. Betcha didn't think I knew about pokemon. Well I know all about pokemon! Why can't a dude in his late 20s like pokeman? There's nothing odd about that. In fact, you know what? Instead of doing commentary, I'm going to talk about all my favorite pokemans and why.

1. Pikachu

Because duh, everybody loves Pikachu. Pika Pika!

2. Charizard

Because fire is good and it's totally a flying dragon! The only thing that would be better is a ninja. So I nicknamed him Ninja. Wouldn't it be cool if it was a fire breathing dragon ninja!?

3. Squirtle

HES SOOOO CUTE OMG. I dont want to level him up because I dont want him to faint in battle I would just die.

4. Magikarp

Some guy sold me one and so far it sucks, but I dont have a lot of pokemans so I have to use it until I get moar.

5. Pidgey

Because it knows gust, and I like the animation it uses. It's pretty badass.

6. Metapod

If you use harden a lot you can't die! Well it takes a long time anyway. Plus he's got string shot, so that's pretty kewl too I guess. I have the bestest pokeman team evar!

Fine, I'll go back to commentary. You guys are no fun.

I had the impression that at least one of your attackers used a Dark power - so the writeup would have it look like, at least. So blaming it on vigilante killers, solely, might be naïve.



I think duels are a bad idea, becuase frankly, in order to take down the Dark One or the Sith Master, I think we'd need to send in someone as powerful as them - ie a Grandmaster or something the like - and we don't want the GM placed even near a tie since it'd be too easy to last-minute lynch him. No, I don't think duels is the way to go, although I understand the argument.

I like the case on Autolycus, but I still have this nagging suspicion about Diana, and we rid her of Force Breath last lynch, so now would be the perfect time if we really want to lynch her. I'll have to ponder this some more...



I attacked Nightbringer last night, not Renata. From his posts, you can already deduct his character name, since he clearly mentions that he is the one being attacked with an emerald lightsaber - and there are only one of those in the writeup.
I do not have the impression that Nightbringer is worth pursuing at the moment. He acts... odd, perhaps, but I think it's merely an attempt to be helpful by trying to construct cases on people, even if it comes off as quite scummy. His powers in battle were not overwhelming even if he survived, my results quite clearly dictate that we were quite equal. I started as an initiate and have only been a knight for a couple of nights (since the great promotion-fest), and I think both the Dark One and the Sith Lord would be able to easily defeat me - even outright kill me in self-defence - without revealing their true identities.

As such, I don't think there's a case against Nightbringer. I'm on the fence between Diana and Autolycus, but one I'd really like to have more attention is - paradoxically - Renata. She's told us herself she hasn't got Force Breath, so it'd be a clean lynch, but I seem to recall pevergreen advising against her lynch.
Vote:Renata. pever, feel free to explain to me in public or private why Renata should be left alone.

Renata eh? Excellent choice Diamondeye!

We all know protestvoting leads to the darkside, blurring the boundaries between light and darkness...

Vote: robbiecon

Sorry, but this vote pretty much guarantees that Khazaar is not Sith. I love it.

Remember kids, if it is voting for people who are known innocents, you got yourself a townie.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053232494

pevergreen feeds the town some info, but also does this thing where he says "wrong" about things that aren't wrong, without even stating why.

Not sure what's up there.

So, essentially, we need to kill the Dark One first, then the Sith Master, then the Sith Apprentice. The order needs be done properly, and the Apprentice needs to be killed very quickly after the Master. Sounds easy!

I know, right?

Oh, also...

Unvote; Vote: Nightbringer

Make it a choice between him and autolycus. It's absurd to lynch Diana again. She hasn't posted anywhere on the Org since Sunday. That's not intentional lurking, that's simple absence from the forums.

Tincow uses thinking. It's super effective!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053232569

Diamondeye takes issue with pevergreen's leadership style.

unvote; vote: Captain Blackadder

Too many coincidental and safe votes.

Coincidentally, he failed to kill Blackadder. This move should have raised some eyebrows, but...

You've got to be kidding me on the Diana vote...

Unvote; Vote: Autolycus

The round almost ends in a tie, but TC decides the round instead.

Diana's death would have given you another Jedi ghost, leaving Autolycus alive.

However, Tincow is trying to catch Sith with active involvement and trying to avoid bad lynches. The effort is commendable.


Wild Autolycus fainted! Tincow gains 15 exp.

Day Fourteen: I need a hero....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

23 players remaining, and of those, a few aren't bothering to vote or pay attention. Starting to look gloomy for the Jedi. I need a hero.

I have to wonder what on earth is going on around here. Do i miscount, or did i just count 6 attackers attacking people this night? Things definetely does not seem to be as they are explained to us in the thread.

I'm sorry, this just reads as fake to me. I can't help but say it. The last sentence especially.

Nothing unusual happened that night. No one else had the reaction Kage did.

It's been like this for at least three nights now, so I'm not sure why you bring this up now.

Because it's not connected to reality, meaning it is either a deception or a brain fart. And Kage isn't one to not pay attention to the game.

Anyone else seeing this? Or just me and Renata?

Vote: TinCow
for his last moment vote switch that lead to lynching important jedi

Not in a game where the Sith can recruit. That would mean that both he and the person he saved were guilty, and it doesn't make sense. He would rather wagon that person, look good, and recruit someone else.

Dark one wouldn't bother saving anyone. So this analysis is flawed, but understandable. It's only natural to consider it a scummy move, but that's the surface. Think deeper.

Yes that is true it was basically said when Cecil was attacked.

Xando quickly stood in a Makashi stance, and the hooded figure stood in an Ataru stance. They wasted no time. The hooded figure began the attack, and soon overwhelmed the young Padawan. It was all Xando could do to keep up with this menacing attacker, and very quickly, his saber was cut in half, disarming Xando. The cloaked figure prepared to unleash the final blow, but Xando reached out with the Force, and pushed the cloaked figure to the deck plating, surprising the superior fighter.

Xando fled the scene with his life, barely evading his attacker.

Fighting to a standstill means nothing in terms of power.

Nice analysis, Captain Blackadder.

@ Beefy and pevergreen: Renata, Chaotix, Ignoramus.. you have been protective of these 3 people right ? Are you completely certain that they are jedi or is it just a feeling ?

He's right to be worried. 1 Sith and 1 Neutral are part of that group.

@pevergreen; was that assassin acting on your orders? I really hope not, as I indulged in changing my target to one of your preferences. Namely, vote:Psychonaut

Heh, you guys are right on the money. Tried to take him down, failed, time to lynch him.

Force scream? What kind of wussy power is that?

Pretty much the deadliest power in the game besides Force Kill so far. It's been pretty effective.

Psychonaut sure is strong in that writeup :o The first assasin is being completely destroyed by psychonaut and his relentless blows of furry attacks.. The first assasin even loses a hand vs this sword master
The second assasin seems to esscape by mere luck...

concidering he is one of the people that are 'most likely' to be either the dark one, or the sith more, I would say this is good enough for me.

Vote: Psychonaut

YES! Now we are getting somewhere!

These vig kills are turning out to be more important than the investigations.

Vote: DoubleA.Didnt you surface on awfully convenient moment.

Too convenient a target. Double A is too apathetic to fight back.

I agree with God Emperor. Chance of Dark one being replaced is not very likely.

Actually my moneys on Kagemusha being the Dark one. I'll test my luck
Vote: Kagemusha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBwS66EBUcY

Where have all the good men gone
And where are all the gods
Where’s the street-wise Hercules
To fight the rising odds
Isn’t there a white knight upon a fiery steed
Late at night I toss and I turn and I dream of what I need

Lynch kage!

Finding the emo-sith should be our top priority.

I need a hero
I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the end of the night
He’s gotta be strong
And he’s gotta be fast
And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero (hero)
I’m holding on for a hero ‘till the morning light (‘till the morning light)
He’s gotta be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life (gotta be larger than life)

Kage is acting too cool. He havn't been on the hot spot yet. Its too perfect.
He gets my vote unless I see better cases.

Somewhere after midnight
In my wildest fantasy
Somewhere just beyond my reach
There’s someone reaching back for me

Let's have a chat with zan finnay.

Racing on the thunder and rising with the heat
It’s gonna take a superman to sweep me off my feet
I need a hero
I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the end of the night
He’s gotta be strong
And he’s gotta be fast
And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero
I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the morning light
He’s gotta be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life

unvote, vote: Kagemusha

I need a hero
I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the end of the night

I agree. unvote, vote: Kagemusha

Up where the mountains meet the heavens above
Out where the lightning splits the sea
I could swear there is someone somewhere
Watching me

That makes no sense at all. You've already been exposed, you'd better defend yourself.

Unvote; Vote: Kagemusha

Through the wind and the chill and the rain
And the storm and the flood
I can feel his approach
Like a fire in my blood

Unvote, Vote: Kagemusha

Just what I've been waiting for. Time to die, Sith.

I need a hero
I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the end of the night
He’s gotta be strong
And he’s gotta be fast
And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero (hero)

Vote: kagemusha

I think we got our sith.

I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the morning light (‘till the morning light)
He’s gotta be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life (gotta be larger than life)

vote: Kagemusha, the more I hear the more I like agree. Particularly since, out of all the cases I've heard, this is the one that makes the accused seem the smartest.

I need a hero
I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the end of the night
He’s gotta be strong
And he’s gotta be fast
And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero (hero)

Okay, kage, when I last posted I saw no value in the accusation against you. But now, after your series of extremely scummy posts, I am going to have to unvote, vote:kagemusha

I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the morning light (‘till the morning light)
He’s gotta be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life (gotta be larger than life)

Thanks for your respons Psychonaut I don't see the reason why it would be bad to reveal to pever... he is a known innocent, and he doesn't like to share any information.. the thread have revealed that much. But you are right , I didn't play that game. I will just leave it for now.

When reviewing the thread I think that the case on Kagemusha is a decent one, when it is based on his reactions.. but saying that he hasn't been attacked doesn't really mean anything in itself. But heh.. It seems like he is suggesting that we need to lynch him twice. That is at least something I would expect from a dark one/ sith lord.

Unvote; Vote: Kagemusha

I need a hero
I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the end of the night



Not only is Beefy right that kagemusha is evil, he's guessed correctly, without a confirmed investigation result, that Kagemusha is also the Dark One, specifically. With 22 other suspects still alive. And it starts the wagon that removes his force breath ability.

Holy poop on a stick.

Beefy gets the Askthepizzaguy award.

I reckon ByzantineKnight is Sith - just a question of whether he or Kage is the Master or Apprentice.

Unvote; Vote: Kagemusha

Just so you know, Kage has been chatting with me in private and he completely pwned me
He still gets my gut feeling vote.

Good call Ignoramus, and very good call Beefy. Way to stick to your guns instead of being manipulated by the master.

I can only speak for myself, but as I stated before pever named you, the basic case against (only unaccounted for starting Master) was not great. It was good enough, however, to warrant some pressure votes. Your reaction to those votes was incredible and sold me on your guilt in a way that the original case never could.

Not good cases can lead to awesome cases.

What I learned about Kagemusha is that he's a dangerous, dangerous player, but he does leave a bunch of tells when he's mafia, and it's not just me. A lot of good players caught it early, but basically everyone caught it when he was finally put on the spot.

The case was based on his reaction, which is something substantive. I realize this is getting into bandwagon territory but if you watch how people reacted, there wasn't much steam on this wagon, and there were other suspects. But when Kage was put on the spot, more and more people saw what beefy and the others saw.

Outstanding. Town has redeemed itself. Just in time too.... can you stop Kage and the Sith?

esp?

Anyway I find it very unlikely that someone would get a high level investigation after focusing on sabre combat. I have had a few powers come from outside my specialty but none are the level of IV investigation. Your story just doesn't add up. After your learn't all the sabre powers you should have gained sabre focused force powers and not investigation powers.

Vote Kagemusha

It's fairly true. It's not unheard of, but Force users would be more likely to get those powers than Saber masters.

I like the reasons. Everyone seems to be adding their own reasons to this case. It's not just an ignoramus wagon with everyone going "me too" or the dcmort wagon (what the heck was up with that one?).

Im quite sure any of the force ghosts or the known masters can tell you that i am right in this one, so dont build your case against me based on these issues.

It's also true that a case based on just that wouldn't be much of one.

I believe this is more of a flinch. Kage's reaction was too defensive and aggressive at the same time.

I don't know if the writeup, which will show him as a calm light-sider due to his Force Trance, will even convince anyone he's innocent.

And then, when Joooray gets attacked with Oblivion, I am pretty sure that people are going to get more suspicious too.

I think Kage is done. But I can't count this guy out, he's escaped before. Let's hope that frustration and desperation force the townies to cross their fingers, stick with their suspect, and hope.

What am I messing up. I have a semi-accurate list of your force powers (only those that you revealed to me) and a case I posted here that was done by another member who didn't know who you were, he did it based off your name.

I know who killed Beskar, it was our Purple lightsaber vig, not Ig. He never claimed those kills to me.

You sent a PM saying you had no powers and re iterated what happened to you that night phase. Hardly a reveal.

A double scan for the dark one, we don't know for sure for the sith.

I'll have to ask purple saber dude what he's been doing, I havent been keeping track of him for the last few days.

How would revealing what you know (not a whole lot outside your role, I'm willing to bet) be stupid.

So you're claiming force ghost? Too bad I know for a fact Sith force ghosts exist. And I know what they can do. I know their special ability.



Vote: Kagemusha

And that's all the force ghosts and basically the entire town.

I think that's the final nail in the coffin.

I wonder....

Who will target Kage tonight?

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You act like the only option you have is not saying a word, or giving a complete role reveal with a huge amount of secret information that is helpful to the Sith. There's a lot of middle ground out there, and you don't seem to care about it at all. That is very scummy. Particularly so when you've already voluntarily said a ton about yourself, such as:

1) You're a Master.
2) You specialize in the saber.
3) You have obtained all saber powers.
4) You have two investigative powers, including one very high level one, and you've been using them.
5) You've been communicating with pever privately.
6) You have Force Breath and Force Ghost

So... you refuse to talk because it might help the Sith... but you give away all of that information in a completely off-hand way? I don't believe it at all. What it looks like to me is that you're scum and you didn't prepare an alibi ahead of time, so you're scrambling.

He's dug himself too deep a hole. I don't think I could come up with a big enough lie to escape from this one.

This is yet another valid criticism. Another chink in the armor.

This is not a no-reason wagon. At least they got him on substance.

You guys did it without the tier III investigation power, too. Based on old-school mafia tactics of questioning and looking for behavioral clues.

As such, this game's experiment is a success. I threw 3 types of investigation at you so far, and you haven't quite gotten the last one yet, but without really needing to use any of them, you got the right guy, and not randomly either.

The investigations were roughly 50/50 helpful and harmful so far. They didn't ruin the game for you, but they didn't win the game for you either. The town network was useful but not overpowered. Everyone had a chance to become powerful, and no one had a plain old vanilla role. The game was balanced and challenging and lengthy enough to build the tension. The game was able to have a half-dozen vigilantes at the same time, while still keeping the deaths low every night, providing for some action-packed writeups. The alignment system hadn't been done exactly that way before. The types of attacks and defenses I thought kept the game interesting and unpredictable. The Jedi Holocron (learn about the game mechanics as you go) system seemed to be rather innovative, I think. Enlightenment (protect someone from recruitment) I am not sure has ever been done before.

Even as I sit here with a likely dead Dark Lord of the Sith on my hands, I can't say for sure he will be dead tonight or even tomorrow, as town is sometimes an indecisive cluster. And what of the Sith Lord and apprentice? Pressure on Psychonaut is making this game look like it could swing back toward the Jedi for the victory. Chaotix is also getting powerful enough to have a shot at a neutral victory.

I don't know what's going to happen next, and nobody does.

I think I need to do another sequel to this game. I'm already excited to think about it...

Day Fifteen: Know the power of the Dark Side

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I've got a bad feeling about this.

I have a good feeling about this. But nice movie reference.

Ok, well I am going to stick with my vote: Khazaar from yesterday. I stated the reasons then but can reiterate then if someone requires that i do so.

I wonder... in a situation like this, should you always follow through on a lynch on a candidate that survived a lynch?

If so, Ignoramus/Joooray would have died a while back, Diana would be dead, Wideyedwanderer would be dead, and so on. But, Kagemusha would definitely be dead.

I'm not sure it's worth it to always do so.

But, if you're sure on a candidate, you lynch them, they survive, you attack them three times, they survive, and you're still pretty sure, why would you not lynch again?

I think it is a bad choice to not lynch in that situation.

However, I am also not a fan of shutting down discussion or debate. Nightbringer voting for a suspect that isn't Kage is fine here. There will still be a game after Kage's death, whenever that may be.

(as of this writing, Kage's fate hasn't been sealed yet. I predict with a 75% chance he will die, but town has a way of changing its mind after the halfway mark in a day phase. Time passes and people forget their original reasons.)

Hmm.

The sith have used the most powerful technique, and had the foresight to see through Joooray's cloak. Unfortunately, he didn't choose the right defence, even though he knew what it was.

If you hate my guts and refuse to talk to me, then please tell Beefy anything you did last night. I'd rather he know than neither of us know, otherwise, please tell me.

I promise you, once a sith dies, you won't have to put up with me for much longer after that. I just want to take one out.

Joooray was a sitting duck for days and days and days. Kage could have killed him no problem at any time.

Joooray finally gets Telekinetic Lightsaber Combat, and does not use it on the night Kage kills him with Oblivion.

So close.... so close.... Joooray, I'm sorry, but you were so very close. I know it hurts, man. That's rock paper scissors for you....

I think that the only reason that this game isn´t over is that the Dark Jedi and the Sith do not share exactly the same victory condition. Maybe we should mass reveal our names and see if we can work something from there...

I would. By now, the Sith have probably enough data to figure out who is who anyway.

Town must act as one.

Told you Joooray was Dark Jedi... there are no 'vigilantes'.

This is pretty funny. Beskar is almost believable here, but you still have to tune him out.

This is false. I don't know how or why, but I am pretty sure Beskar is lying. Probably because he is Sith. Idk, maybe he just likes to feel good about himself by tricking other people with lies. Who knows.

Kind of gives away that he's the gold saber killer here, since the other one came forward.

Vote: Kagemusha

This is why TinCow wins games; follow-through.


https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053234059


This post by pever was a good idea. I wish people had listened and gave a comment for each.

I would have INSISTED on it because I'm pushy like that.

green lightsaber vig, yellow lighsaber vig, emerald lightsaber vig, force...grip? kill, triple attack on kage, 3 jedi, attack on ig, force energy (possible second sith action), oblivion on joooray (possible third sith action).

Town is killing itsself.

Vote: kagemusha.

Here, pever is pulling his weight as town leader in a much more obvious way. This analysis is spot-on, as is the conclusion that town is killing itself, as is the vote on kage.

Three for three, excellent job pevergreen.

the green, yellow lightsabers belonged to those who died, the vigilantes used a blue and gold saber respectively.

Useful post by ACIN. At this time, ACIN is moving up the ranks of useful townies, because he is paying attention and actually making contributions here.

If only he'd stop killing innocent Jedi.... but hey, if he goes dark jedi and survives the game, it is these actions which win the game for him. High risk.

Guys, I think the best way for us to win is to not kill. We're down to 19 - and among the 19 are the Sith Apprentice, Sith Lord, and Dark One.

According to the Jedi Holocron, the Sith Master and Dark One are so powerful that even a group of vigs has an extremely low chance of success. The surest way to elimate them is by lynching - nothing but Force Breath can help them there. I'd also advise against revealing info - the Sith would pick us off lick flies.

I thus have every suspicion that Kage must be the Sith or the Dark One, so Vote: Kagemusha.

No, I disagree.

Lynch the Dark One, and then all the vigilantes vig-kill the same target.

That shows they are occupied during the evening, and aren't the ones doing Sith kills.

The Sith can still fool you here, but they both have to give up one of their attack slots. It's a seriously good strategy.

Also, lynch Master, then vig-kill the apprentice ASAP before she can recruit someone.

I know some of you dislike metagaming, but the fact that Warman is still alive at this stage of the game is suspicious in itself...

I dislike metagaming, and I still disagree. It proves nothing, just like Ignoramus showing interest in the game.

Warman is innocent, and his being alive is simply a result of no one having successfully killed him yet. With two Sith factions, that's also true for everyone.

ACIN/warman/cpt blackadder/ichigo/khaan/double a.

But what can we do at this point.

Only this.

Unvote: Kage, Vote: Warman

pevergreen demonstrates why metagaming is so bad.

Everyone he mentions here? Innocent.

And the vote switch is worse.

Don't metagame. Even if you won that way, how hollow would it be? At least vote randomly if you're not going to make a case on someone. That way you can say "oooh wasn't I lucky" instead of "I won because this player is always supposed to be dead, and he wasn't" which is lame.

My opinion, feel free to disagree. Maybe some players want to live sometimes.

I really think we need to follow through on Kage. His behavior yesterday was super scummy. He had Force Breath and claims Force Ghost, both of which would be expected for the Dark Lord or the Sith Master. He also survived an attack by three vigilantes, which is consistent with what Ignoramus just said about the Holocron.

5 stars for Tincow.

Didn't Ignoramus himself have Force Breath and didn't he himself survive a few vig attempts?

If he says we must lynch Kage for that, then we should lynch him as well, no?

Odds-wise, it makes him more likely to be a Sith, but not a Sith here.

Very few people have force ghost, half of them are Sith.

No, because Ignoramus has not behaved anywhere near as scummy as Kage. Kage's posts yesterday were some of the scummiest behavior I've ever seen in a mafia game. Nothing has changed to make him a bad lynch choice again today.

Bolded for emphasis. Even with a generic case like having Force Ghost, narrowing it down with specifics (also acting scummy) is why Tincow succeeds with a generic case.

It's generic but also specific. It is very excellent townie play.

And, from my vantage point, the logic holds for more than just Kagemusha. People found Psychonaut scummy yesterday, he's got Ghost and Breath. He is a Sith. Renata has Ghost and she's a Sith, although no one finds her scummy yet.

If you lynch everyone who has Ghost, you will find all the current Sith and lose only a few Jedi.

Kage is just being his stubborn self

He is being his stubborn self, but does that mean he's innocent?

He's putting up a good defense. One I think that does closely match how he'd behave as innocent. It just so happens, in this case, he is guilty.

His behavior before he was put on the hotseat is really where you should make your case, because you run into confirmation bias afterward, but honestly I think his defense triggered people's behavior, and not randomly or for bandwagon purposes either. Everyone seemed to add individual and unique reasons why they found his defense to be a cover for Sithness. Even Andres felt Kage was scum earlier on in the game. He just seems to have bought Kage's story/behavior here and changed his mind.

Kudos to Kage on that.

I disagree. In any case, even if we're wrong about Kage, I don't see it causing much damage to the town. He claims Force Ghost, so he'll still be able to vote no matter what. Plus, he's clearly focused on killing and I'm in agreement with those people who say we need to stop the vig actions. So, in the worst case scenario where Kage is Jedi, we don't lose a town vote and we stop a vigilante. That's about as harmless an error as I can see. My money is still on Kage as Dark Lord or Sith Master though.

It's a fair assessment. Lynching all the jedi force ghosts is actually okay as long as you do the same for the sith. Preferably in the right order, though...

Vote: Kagemusha

Beefy sticks to his guns, very admirably. I think he's usually one who can be persuaded or bargained with or otherwise convinced. Here, he shows his iron will.

the attack on Joooray is the dark one doing that.
the attack on kagemusha... Well I would say Sith. . . We have 3 people attacking him. two of them are the same that attacked joooray some nights ago. The new person.. well if the two other are sith then either they just proved the law of two wrong, or dark jedi are licking boot. And if that is the case Dark Jedi, then you must have been mistaken at some point if you think sith would share victory with you ^^

most suggests that we should go after Kagemusha. With the Dark One attacking Joooray, and Kagemusha fends off 3 sith who uses skills like Ataru, Makashi, Force stasis, Chain lightning, lightning. So if it goes as it should Kagemusha is the Dark one.

God Emperor keeps up the pressure after death, helping the town by asking for Kage to be lynched again.

you are such a little sith/dark jedi

Referring to Ignoramus, the strongest and most light-side Jedi there is alive at the moment.

So, can't win em all, GE.

People are attacking me using force lightning and i am a on the dark side of force? Last night i did what i could in order to protect myself and i am sure i was scanned by multiple people.
If you look at what i have been doing trough out the game and think about what Sith Lord or the Dark one should be supposedly doing. You should understand that i am not either of those roles. If mafias goal is to kill us all, why as mafia i would concetrate on scanning people and giving out information to the town. I cant quite recall how many nights i have been scanning people, but pever can tell that it has been long time. Not right from the start as i havent had an investigation ability for that long, but ever since i got that ability.
Why would i waste my time pretending i am someone able to investigate, when as Sith i could just say i cant scan people and concentrate on killing people. That would be absolutely crappy tactics for mafia. I am now the third eldest master on this ship and one no one can kill me quite easily. You can lynch me and i cant act as force ghost afterwards helping town ofcourse, but if the Sith are as hard to kill as they supposedly are. Who is going to get rid of them, if you lynch all the powerful pro town people? Also Tincow i dont get where you are getting that i am focused on killing when i havent made a single vigilante attack.

Some of you think that i am quite the crafty player, Tincow clearly being not one of them as you think i would give myself up so easily as mafia, but do i have to be killed as default just because i am who i am. In my opinion i am quite more valuable to the town with cleared by scans and helping the town to win the game, rather then lynched because some of the town people seem to be paranoid about me.

Kagemusha's night defenses are indefensible.

He would have to claim Force Sever or Force Plague or make one up. And if he does, they will know these are advanced dark side powers, while Kage scans as advanced light side.

The contradiction is the smoking gun everyone misses, because no one asks which defenses he used.

Missed opportunity, everyone. Missed opportunity.

Cleared by scans? Now you're contradicting yourself. Yesterday you knew as well as the rest of us that the only scan that would provide evidence about the Dark Lord and Sith Master was the GM investigation. You said as much by repeatedly asking for Joooray to clear you last night with an investigation:

Last night Joooray was killed and thus cannot clear you with an investigation. Yet somehow you now think you are "cleared by scans"?

Tin "The Hammer" Cow, everyone.

Well i don´t think revealing names will hlep the sith much unless they need to target a specific player. Since I´ve been attacked twice already I think the opposition knwos who I am anyway. I´m Jedi Master Kel Dih-Mar I doubt I will survive a third attempt so I see no reason not to reveal. I think we should really lynch inactives, there´s bound to be one bad apple between them...

Vote: Warman

No Sith among the inactives. A war between townies and further townie/vig-related deaths will only help the Sith win.

Revealing that he's Kel Dih-Mar, a new Master, reveals also he's one of the weakest Jedi in the game, and that helps the Sith.

I have to wonder Tincow. Why are you so thirsty of my blood? I said i would be valuable once cleared by investigations. Do you want to see my posts scummy so hard that you start making up things? If the town wants i can be assigned my personal force ghost that will watch my every move until i am cleared. I cant but just wonder why nothing else seems to make you happy then my death, maybe the force ghosts should point me towards you direction in order to find out your true motivations. Maybe you are doing the bidding of your master so the town will further destroy itself?

Oh gawd.

Entertaining and forceful, but I know I'd be voting for this. This kind of defense will push some of the more indecisive people away, though, so it is worth it.

Still, it just reeks so bad. The OMGUS is so pungent it makes my eyes water.

Actually, I wonder whether or not Kagemusha's guilty. Most of the kills done so far by Sith Lord and the Dark One relied on force powers, or at least I think. Kagemusha seems to be a master of blades, unlike anything witnessed so far. If the Sith Lord or the Dark One had this much skill with the blade, then surely he would have used it more often.

Seon drinks Kage's wine.

The problem is Kage, that we don't know enough about the sith.

I had a case pointed out to me earlier, and I spent over an hour going through writeups and PMs and posts, all to conclude that...it was still possible.

The fact is, we don't know what the sith can or can not do. We know they can't learn light side powers once becoming a sith. It is unlikely that investigations are a light side power though. If we go back and look at the night actions for each night, the sith could easily be investigating, and posing as someone.

Without the dual-GM investigation, no one is 100% jedi, unless force ghosted. Even a sith can become a force ghost, but thankfully, no sith force ghosts yet.

We have 19 people alive, and 3 confirmed anti-town roles alive, who knows how many dark jedi.

Unvote: Warman, Vote: Kage

I'm sorry, but I believe this is the best course of action that leads to a non-sith victory.

Don't apologize, you're doing fine.

Really guys? Lynch TinCow... He's trying way too hard to be helpful

Except if he's town, that's pretty much a necessary thing. And he is town.

So you prepared to kill basically anyone at this point who is powerful, without a second thought? What happens when all the powerful pro town people are dead? The Sith and the Dark one will kill the rest with ease. With this rate of night kills. You cant afford to lynch wrong people. You and i both know that i asked for you to get me scanned the same time i revealed at you. Why didnt you have that done? As i said in pm already.I cant understand your motivations and dont trust your judgement either at this point. I have to ask from you also as from the write up it reveals that the ones that attacked me were using dark side powers and also some of them atleast were cloaked. Did you set that attack up? If you did, then i have to think that you are played by the Sith or the Dark One, as your actions have got quite a lot people already killed.

I can count for each and every night action of mine. Tell when i have acquired what power and you have knowledge of lot what i ahve been doing. Still you dont even give me a change to redeem myself in the eyes of the town. Have it occurred to you that maybe you are yourself influenced by the mafia who may be playing you a fool?

Oh, this post however is a masterpiece. I like this defense, it attacks pevergreen's weak point, which is his view of himself as a townie leader and his lack of confidence in his own decisions.

Very nice jab. That one probably stung a little.

The rhetoric about accounting for all his night actions is pretty forceful, but in his case, ultimately inconclusive.

If he could point to a night he defended someone with Meld, or vigilante killed a Sith, he'd be in like Flynn. That's why he has such powers, to really and ultimately fool the town hardcore.

Sadly, he didn't use these powers to clear himself. I really think he could have found his way out here with a simple, calm defense and "I defended so and so night 12, while the Sith were killing. That proves I'm not the dark one" when it doesn't prove that, but it would meet EVERYONE's expectations for such.

That's the move which could have won the game for him. That's why I made it possible. I wanted to challenge everyone's assumptions about how a mafioso will behave, but it was not to be.

With all due respect, if Joooray could be killed at night, I don't think a Master, even one as strong as you, has a good chance at surviving a determined attack. I see no chance whatsoever for the Jedi to win via night actions. Victory has to come through lynching.

There's just no denying this logic.

From the people so far suggested,I think i was wrong with Tincow yesterday as it would seem he is somewhat objective, or then fooling me with a great act. But i think the best case right now is to Vote: Khazaar.Apart the case Nightbringer has shown. Late yesterday when majority were voting me he decided not to join the wagon, but instead decided to vote Diana Abnoba, who has been unresponsive for ages.EDIT:



That is only because town is so disorganized. For example why wasnt anyone protecting Jooray last night? For example Ignoramus.Maybe pever or Beefy could answer that? If we are not accounted for at slightest, nor we have any coordination in our night orders.I dont believe we can win. That is not an excuse to kill powerfull pro town people, unless it really is an excuse and the mafia are playing the town from inside out.

Kagemusha's point is very valid, dangerously so.

This might almost be convincing, except lecturing the townies how to behave is one of my scumtells. Every Sith has done that this game.

Yes, I think this is obvious by now.
If what you said is true, that would mean the sith Lord himself is one of the three who got beaten so easily. I consider that an impossibility.

vote: Kagemusha , FOS: God Emperor

Zan Finnay's ability to wishstand three attackers with ease points to him being the Sith Lord. It was the Dark One who killed the Grandmaster, as evidenced by the mechanical breathing. Giving scanning results to the town is no defense: A Sith master wouldn't scan his starting apprentice in the first place; it's a harmless way to build townie cred.

Pretty much in agreement here.

But the Sith Lord himself WAS one of the three who got his butt handed to him.

I hope Kage smiles about that. He outranked Psychonaut by 4 full ranks. That's like a Grandmaster pwning a Jedi Initiate.

Psycho never had a chance against this guy with the saber. Only his tier III force powers have a chance at beating Kage.

I have said for multiple days now that the town is killing itself, and that it needs to stop.

I know you asked to be scanned, but you know scans can't prove anything. You're demanding proof that you yourself have stated cannot be obtained.

[edit for length]

You can tell us what you did each night, but the fact is unless you appear in the writeup, it can be faked. Even then, unless you appear performing two actions, you can still be lieing.

If we prolong the game long enough for the grand master to obtain the only way to prove innocence/guilt, then we have a chance, along with good old fashioned in thread stuff.

Town does need to stop killing itself. Those weak vig attacks won't do anything against any of the Sith right now. They need to be fully boosted and using the right form AND using an ability that can see through Cloak for Renata alone. They can't even hit Psychonaut while he's using Trance.

That's the tell, though; if you can't attack someone with Investigation II combined with the vig, they are a grandmaster or they are Sith. That's how investigation II can catch sith.

Investigation I allows you to find people using cloak or above (when it fails, thats the most likely reason) and people who were using active powers in the game opening (half of them were Sith). If someone claims to be inactive but Investigation I says otherwise, they're lying, and therefore probably Sith.

Investigation II can catch Renata being not light side and see through her cloak. That combined with a vig kill can also attack Renata. Investigation II can locate people using Trance when combined with a vig kill, as it will fail to penetrate Trance. The only people using trance are Psycho and Kage. In that sense it's the most useful and widely available investigation of them all.

Investigation III will tell you outright that Kage is dark side, which contradicts his strong with the light side story. Nailed immediately. Tells you outright for the Lord and Apprentice that they are Sith without any doubt.

Investigation IV tells you dark side and non-recruitable. That means they are Sith, but this investigation can be fooled. It is useful to use on Renata when combined with Investigation II, or on Psychonaut BEFORE he got Trance. It will become useful again after Kage and Psycho are dead.

All 4 investigations can root out the Sith. All 4 were useful. All 4 were not game-enders for the Sith because how to use them was not known, and not all were always available to everyone.

This may be true, but you don't automatically gain every single power once you become grandmaster. Neither Joooray, nor I believe Ig, have the force powers required to do the scan. We have to wait for Ig to aquire them.

Its like saying a jedi master can use a roleblocking power. Why can't everyone roleblock now? Because not everyone has the force power.

I wouldn't have revealed this part. That's not necessary for the town or the Sith to learn.

Yes, I've seen them. Only three of them oddly enough. I also know you were using an active ability on night one.

Nice shot, Cecil. This is nearly a smoking gun, because very few people had such powers on night one, including other Knights.

FoS: Kage, Diana

Town should try to lynch our old suspects

Nice pressure, Jarema.

Vote: Kagemusha

Same case as yesterday, plus the fact that no one should be strong enough to withstand three attacks, two of which came from fighters of equal skill.

Good pressure, but those attacks weren't all that strong. Saber and lightning are the two easiest to defend powers in the game.

Saber can be stopped with push, an initiate ability.

Lightning can be stopped with a saber alone, with the right stance. It also has a myraid defenses.

Jedi's killing powers were really only useful to kill Sith apprentices or Sith with the wrong defenses selected, or when combined with investigation II to find Trance users.

They were otherwise nearly meaningless. However, Final Judgment is formidable and very much useful to the Jedi GM.

Day Fifteen: But wait, there's more! Part Two.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet, or his enemies?

This is WIFOM. Requesting to be scanned was irrelevant because the GM was killed last night. Since it was not publicly known that Joooray couldn't find the Dark Lord with his powers, the Dark Lord would have expected that he was able to do so. Thus, Joooray could have been killed to prevent you from being IDed as the Dark Lord, or he could have been killed to prevent him from clearing you as the Dark Lord. It is impossible to know which is true, so it is simple WIFOM that should be discarded.

Nice shot, guys. Don't fall for that WIFOM stuff.

Not at all. If I had attacked you as well, you wouldn't still be living, Sith.

Chaotix actually has some useful dark side powers now. Even if they didn't kill Kage they would all but prove kage has insanely powerful defenses.

Chaotix could finish Kage for good even if Kage doesn't get lynched here.

Finally, after lots and lots of failures and some successes, Chaotix is just one step away from being Grandmaster and is gaining real power with the Dark Side, thus making him legitmately dangerous.

Go Chaotix, go!!!

Force Meld- Can be used to join another in battle. (ACTIVE Ability).I have had it from the start.

Not conclusive, but still a good defense.

Chaotix is mr purple saber, who incidently wasn't attacking, with a saber, when Jooray was attacked or tonight. I've even called it out that night, even if the puppet theory have been replaced since then. Better than any other lynch this far for the town.

He's correct about Chaotix being purple saber.

Kage is throwing out bad arguments and rhetoric in defense

You have to lynch people who do that.

Yes. Sasaki sticks to his guns on Kage as well. Most of the so-called leader players are in agreement that Kage is scum, and their senses are well-attuned this time.

Pfft.

I don't have to defend myself to you. You are a Sith and you are scrambling for an excuse to start a bandwagon to counter the one on you. I'm just taunting you to see what your reaction might be, and it is exactly what I expected.

It's plain and obvious that two of the attackers had similar strength to what you should have. Simply put, it is clear in the write-up that two of them used two attacks each- one used dual green lightsabers, and the other used a combination of lightsaber and lightning. This is in addition to the third attacker, who only attacked with lightning and therefore only used one action on you.

It didn't take any inside information for me to deduce that. How do you think I figured out Zan Finnay was the Sith without knowing it was you?

Chaotix is strong with the Force.

His case seems to be mostly intuition and gut feeling, but it was still remarkably accurate.

You're attacking Sasaki because he hasn't caught any scum? How many have you caught this game?

He's also attacking Chaotix who killed the same Sith twice and has guessed that Finnay was Sith.

Chaotix is now ranked right up there with anyone for townie MVP.

Tincow rightfully points out bad rhetoric Kage is using.

There is only three enemies of the town; The Dark One, Sith Master and Sith Apprentice.
The vigilantes have begun organizing; See: The attack on Kagemusha.

I believe none of the attackers against Kagemusha are among the three anti-town. One of them gave the impression of being a Dark Jedi, though.

This is the first reasonable thing you've said in ages, Seon, but not enough to convince me of his innocence. Vote: Kagemusha.
Also, speak up, Seon... Do any force ghosts know anything about Seon?

I believe we can conclude that Psychonaut was among the attackers... I don't know about the other two for certain.

I was (obviously) the one who killed ByzantineKnight.

1. Three enemies of the town: Correct
2. None of the Kage attackers are anti-town: Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong....
(Good job Psychonaut)
3. Good sticking to your guns on Kage.
4. Good to question other suspects as well, don't waste time. Good job.
5. Psychonaut was indeed among the attackers. Nicely done.
6. Revealing your kill on ByzKnight was a good move, I think.


https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053234256

Seriously, this was a very persuasive observation made by Sasaki. Kage mirrors his Shadow Fort behavior quite nicely.

I also think you can look at his behavior in the Daggers game and find similar stuff, Sasaki.

Good follow-through.

No offence to your vigilantes uniting thing but it doesn't seem to have worked out very well so far... vig kills have managed to kill 2 sith yes, but each of them has been replaced in turn so no real effect on the sith... and then they have also made a significant dent in the townie population...

Also, its usually not such a great idea to say you organized a kill on a townie... jus sayin'

ByzKnight has a right to criticize here.

But I disagree, revealing this was a good move.

I'd like to see pever's statement on that, personally.

Why did the vig group not include Diamondeye?

Renata wisely keeps her head down. She's catching no flak for it because Kage is distracting the town.

I was attacking someone else, but it was coordinated with the one organizing the attack on Kage.

Diamondeye sticks his head out for the Sith to cut it off.

Well, at least he won't kill any more townies...

One thing makes me question the Kagemusha case. That Force Meld ability that he claimed doesn't seem like it would be something that either the Sith Lord or the Dark One would learn. Now he could have made up the ability so hopefully the force ghosts can confirm that they've seen other instances of that. He also might have heard about that ability and just laid a fake claim on it to cover his tracks. So that makes me wonder, has anyone told him about the ability? If not, then maybe he has it. Maybe it would it would be possible to get him to use it on someone and then confirmed that he used it. Of course, this is all based on the assumption that Force Meld would not be a Dark Side power, which is a potentially dangerous assumption.

Heh, this is why Kage has Meld.

He could fool everyone with Meld. He didn't bother with it because he wanted to gain information.

Have you ever appeared in the write-ups protecting someone?

See, even now, Tincow could have been convinced by Meld.

Meld is your ticket to freedom.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053234281

God Emperor mistakes Frozen for being in league with Ironside.

This kind of case is easy to get wrong in a game of recruitment. Remember, Ironside started as a Jedi, and early game is easy for Jedi to vote wrong (Frozen).

Nice of you to make that kind of prediction, while continuing to stradle the line. Do you have any intention of ever taking a stand on anything in this game?

ACIN's style clashes with more traditional townie strategies.

Vote: Kagemusha

Yes, I'm bowing to paranoia. Arguments have come and gone, flared and fizzled, but simply put, that you didn't go down last night indicates power that is just too dangerous. As Palapatine was too powerful to let live, as are you.

Khaan becomes a townie hero.

Well the Sith Lord was an chancellor and representitive of his people at one point in the movie.
About Seon, I've had couple of conversation with him, and I think his clean.

@pever
Beefy is beefy. Always
pevers been doing more then we think he is. If the town win, pever is the one to thank.

Don't sell yourself short Beefy. You were right on Kage before Chaotix' case brought more attention to him.

Frankly, I think it is very unlikely that Kage is sith.
The simple fact in my mind is that he displayed that he was a saber master last night, which neither the Sith Lord or the Dark One has done as far as I can tell. The dark one has used force obliterate (or whatever its called) and the Sith Master has been crushing and gripping people.
It is possible kage is an apprentice, but we haven't really seen a Sith killing with a saber at all, as i think it is clear one with his abilities would.

No, I think kage is simply a scummy town. I have stated my opinions about khazaar already, but i would like to support god emperors case on Frozen in Ice.

I don't see much in the use of the term Mr. Purple Lightsaber, but his vote history and behavior (as spelled out by god empereror) do strike me as very scummy.

I am going to keep my vote on khazaar for now, but if more people vote for Frozen in Ice I would much rather see him go than kagemusha, and will change my vote accordingly if I must to make this happen.

Why would the Dark one only be strong with the Force, and not the Saber? Jedi GM is strong with both.

If anything, Kage being strong with both indicates something off.

Kagemusha is simply too strong in mastery of the blade to be a Sith Lord or the Dark One (unless of course, one of them is proficient in both skills ). Otherwise, there would have been much more people who fell by the blade.

Instead, I think I am going to gun for... Vote: Frozen in Ice.

More townies are fooled. Kage is strong with the Dark Side, but they don't wagon the same suspects and thus Kage doesn't have an escape route.

Better is if there's a clear alternative to Kage.

You are very much correct that by not giving an opinion you can never be wrong. However, you also can never be right.

I think Tincow is right, in that his strategy is more useful than ACIN's, especially over several games. It will catch more Sith.

ACIN however is in it for the fun, and he's not being murdered, so he's having fun. His strategy succeeds as well....

Why are we lynching Kage?

Csargo is another potential person Kage can turn against the town's interests here. If only Kage could convince them all to rally against a single suspect....

I have come to the conclusion of vote: Kage

Incorrect conclusions about Investigation III aside, Double A joins the ranks of those voting in the town's best interests. Good call, AA.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053234358

Clever but incorrect interpretation, Cecil XIX.

Way to think outside the box, though.

Just one or two, I think.

Also, I think it's most likely that he's a Dark Jedi or a non-Dark Jedi. If a Sith can become GM, the game is broken.

No, because you can lynch the GM.

Game isn't broken, just horribly skewed in the Sith's favor if you have a Sith removing the Jedi GM slot from the townies.

I predict we will have a Sith GM soon, too.

Not entirely true. People aren't always killed when they are attacked.

Unless the Sith can investigate, and giving those results to the townies doesn't harm you, as they're largely useless, and it gives you townie cred.

Sith always want to have townie cred. When they show it to you, you should be rightly skeptical.

I guess Force Powers are just better at killing people, and thus the Sith/Dark One use them more often than sabers, even if they are proficient with sabers.

Correct!



Tally so far:

Kagemusha, (8): Tincow, Ignoramus, Beefy, Cecil, Chaotix, Diamondeye, Yaseikhaan, Double A
Khazar: Nightbringer,
Warman: Khazar
Chaotix: Kagemusha
Frozen in Ice: Seon
Abstain: Warman

That looks very good for the town....

Vote:Warman

Lynching Kage is a bad idea imo. I don't see any difference in posting under pressure from him that is unusual for Kage.

Warman hasn't been a town hero so far, but he is one of the only two strong light side Jedi remaining.

The only worse lynch is Ignoramus.

vote Frozen in Ice or Khazaar then, please. What reason is there for getting rid of warman when these two have been scumming it up?

ACIN, I would also like to appeal to you to vote for one of these two. If you disagree with the reasons for doing so i understand, but you too dont seem to see much in the case against kage.

Just past midnight, the town starts to lose its head and actively campaign against itself.

Nightbringer isn't happy to see Kage die, and neither are a bunch of other unconvinced townies. Their actions could lead to the town's defeat.

Will Kage get the death he so richly deserves?

I personally find it suspicious that God Emperor seemed to have laid out a good case against frozen and then got murdered so soon.

Here ACIN loses all credibility. He's the one who murdered God Emperor.

I have no idea why ACIN is acting this way. Either information warfare (will only confuse the town, the mafia pretty much know who murdered who) which is bad, or he's deliberately sabotaging the town, which is bad.

I believe he's just playing for his own amusement, not to help the team.

Thumbs down on this post.

Yeah I am leaning towards Frozen now. I don't think this fact should be overlooked.

It could be he's trying to bluff his way into getting his suspect lynched, but IMO he's just trying to mess with everyone in an unproductive way.

Interesting. Usually, mafiosi are most concerned with avoiding to be accused of something.

In response to ACIN, who seems committed to his own ends, not concerned with the town. I know he contacted a suspected Sith and asked if he could help them out or something. Have to check my quicktopics but it's there.

ACIN is acting scummy because he's not interested in the team.

I am concerned with avoiding to be accused of something because lets be honest, I'm not a real "team player" when it comes to being a townie and one game I got lynched early simply because I voiced how I wanted the town to be more decentralized instead of following the "leaders". So, can you blame me for keeping my mouth shut from then on?

Case in point.

Kage, if you want to save yourself at this point you really need to provide proof that directly exonerates you. Rhetoric about what should have been done in the past, or could be done in the future, to prove your innocence is pointless because the past is past and asking for more time to be proven innocent is standard mafia behavior. Indeed, you asked for one more night last night, and no evidence appeared to exonerate you. While it's possible that's not your fault, there's no reason whatsoever to think that you will be properly cleared if we let you live again. Something could happen tonight to prevent it, just like it did last night. In fact, the Sith would actively try and do just that, even if you're not one of them. Letting you live for that reason is just a silly move for the town to make. In addition, I am personally pretty sick and tired of people avoiding lynches with Force Breath, and a large part of the reason why I am still voting for you is that I just want a final result for once. You were a very solid vote yesterday and, while you have done a far better job of defending yourself today, it makes a mockery of the lynch system if Force Breath keeps vetoing the will of the majority. The only thing that will make me change my vote at this point is if you can point to yourself appearing in a night write-up in some manner that proves you are not Sith.

Can't agree with this more.

Regardless of where you stand on Kage, he asks too much here.

here is a link to God Emperor's argument for voting Frozen in Ice. I encourage you to read this WeW and to vote along with it. The case against kage at this point is quite flimsy and i can't understand why it is still getting so many votes. We need to lynch frozen in ice!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053234281

edit to avoid double post
@above
There is some new evidence, that we have no evidence of any sith or the dark one being masters of the light saber. This, combined with some other factors makes me think Frozen in Ice is a much more likely sith.

The part where he says the case is flimsy I disagree with.

Even without knowing the answer, I still think I haven't seen a better or more thoughtful, complete case than the one on Kage, all game.

Even over the course of several games, I feel this is the best I've seen in a long time, importantly, from several independent sources with independent reasoning and many are proven innocent.

And how will you prove what you have done with your second action?

The point. Kage's tactics still ignore that Meld doesn't prove anything because he has a second action.

How can we lock you in with force meld and investigating? Force meld only proves what one of your abilities has been spent on, not the other, and we already know investigating cannot currently discover the Dark Lord. How can we possibly clear you with that?

If you claim to have been investigating on a night when all three scum used two power each on the same target, prove it. You've given pever multiple investigation results. Show me one of the ones you gave him that occurred on a night when the write-up shows three separate scum, each using two abilities.

Tincow is reasonable because he asks for the indisputable proof.

Though, for the record, since investigation results can be forged, he would need to be melding and vigilante killing on the same night to "prove" his innocence. And that vig kill would have to be declared.

And, three other Sith would need to be using 2 powers. It's nearly impossible to pull off, even with reanimation on Sith.

Stop talking about lynching Kage. TinCow, I'm not convinced Kage is bad. The only person this fervent on getting rid of Kage is you, who is obviously a powerful jedi, but why are you so fervent about this? Are really that sure, or are you Sith trying desperately to remove another major obstacle in killing all the town?

The endgame will exonerate Tincow, that's for darn sure.

@ ACIN-

You misunderstand the point of this latest round of conversation. I don't need to do anything to get Kage lynched, the votes are a landslide on him. I responded to him because I wanted him to know why I was personally still voting for him, and to tell him what he could specifically do to make me change my vote. I'm not trying to prove he's guilty anymore, I was just trying to be friendly and provide him with an honest explanation and some advice on what he could realistically do to get me to change my vote.


@ Kage-

1) It would take more individual night actions to 'clear' you than your survival would allow you to contribute. Plus, you can't actually be 'cleared' anyway.
2) This question is confusingly worded, but if you mean why wouldn't force far sight and force persuasion clear you, the answer is because no one has both of those abilities.
3) The Force Ghosts have told us (via ATPG's holocrons) that we have pretty much no chance of killing the Dark Lord and the Sith Master at night.

(@'s added for clarity)

The fountain of patience, ladies and gentlemen.

All of Nightbringer's posts have struck me as off, which makes me think that that's just how he acts. Nightbringer has unabashedly been himself, and I think a Sith would try a little harder to blend in, which is why I grew suspicious of you last day phase. Scum typically try to a lay low while contributing enough to discussion to make it look like they aren't trying to lay low. Scum will also vote in most, if not all, day phases, as you have. Kagemusha sounds like a good lynch, and it appears he is in the undisputed lead, so I'll cast my vote elsewhere. Vote: Frozen in Ice.

Yikes. I need to do a tally.... this swing towards Frozen based on absolutely nothing could kill the town.

Well, it doesn't matter. Lynch went on Kage. And that's the end of that chapter.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Post 3361 of the Game Thread

Wall of the Commentary


Episode III: Revenge of the Puns

I CAN'T TAKE THESE WALLS OF TEXT ANYMOAR Edition

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Day Sixteen- The beginning of the end

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[/B]

Going by the "No ordinary Jedi should be that strong" logic, Va'ard Kypaz is the Sith Lord. Granted, the battle isn't as descript, so it's hard to tell if he was beating them as strongly as Kagemusha was beating them. Plus, it's certainly possible that a Jedi could have taken some combination of actions to survive that, but I find that a little unlikely. Also, looking at the write-ups, he/she promoted to Knight on Night 8, which makes them one of the original Initiates, and thus less likely to have enough abilities right now to withstand that, when most other Jedi by this point haven't even been able to beat two attackers at once.

Going by the number of attacks, there are currently 8 who are either Dark Jedi or Vigilantes. Going by the battle description, The Sith Lord attacked Ignoramus, as that attacker appeared to have far more powerful abilities than anyone else, and one of the Lightning users was the apprentice.

The logic doesn't hold up. Masters can deflect several attacks if they are similar.

If you can deflect lightning tier II, then tier I is also meaningless. Being good with sabers or choosing the right form and having the proper boosts also makes you nigh-indestructible with the saber.

Force Lightning and Force Energy are also similar style attacks with similar weaknesses.

May Warman reveal who he attacked? That is the person who should hang as he was fighting in Juyo.

Also bad logic.

Town should be aware by now that Jedi can learn Juyo. Sith won't necessarily fight in Juyo. In fact, I don't think any of them ever have, that I can recall.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053235115

Tincow, your first mistake was trying to analyze ACIN.

ACIN does not play according to the prescribed norms, and in fact tries to undermine the town as a townie.

As such, he's not a good townie except by accident. Forgive me for saying so, but he will admit he's trying to hurt the town.

So, analysis of his behavior will fail because you're analyzing him with the assumption that he's trying to help you if he's townie.

In fact, one might believe ACIN would act more like a proper townie, if he cares about his mafia partner's wishes, if he were actually mafia.

If he ever starts acting like a townie should, he might be mafia.

Then again, he is ACIN. Maybe he decides he wants to play normally one time just to mess with you. *shrug*

I'm not sure on ACIN. But I admit, his playing style is rather hard to read.

Beefy's got it. You can't read him.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053235125

ACIN's heroic defense, which confesses his not-so-heroic actions.

Doesn't do him any favors.

You certainly have a unique way of defending yourself ACIN, I'll give you that.

Unique is what he is. He's exceptionally different.

That is why ACIN will defy analysis. You have to guess that he's mafia based on investigations or actions, or just flip a coin on him. That's the best you can do.

I don't think he should always be lynched. But if you are going to lynch him, do it early, because you're probably never going to have any reason to lynch him beyond the fact that he's ACIN and he's still alive.

Late lynches should be saved for those you can analyze, and I don't think ACIN fits the pattern of a player who you can draw conclusions based off of behavior.

If it makes you feel better, I'd rather we didn't lynch anyone, but that isnt an option.

Ask someone with force breath to volunteer. That's perhaps its only positive use, besides giving an important townie another night to do their work.

I understand that belittling yourself is part of your chosen defense, but I do want you to know that when I re-read your posts I thought your strategy was brilliant. I don't think I've ever seen anyone simply boast about their role like you did, and the sheer audacity of it is breath-taking. Even if you end up losing this game, I do want to congratulate you on one of the boldest mafia strategies I have ever seen. It was a clever and well-executed plan.

ACIN might deliver a joker-style soliloquy here.

"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! You know, I just... do things. The Sith have plans, the Jedi have plans, even Dark Jedi have plans. You know, they're schemers. Schemers trying to control their little worlds. I'm not a schemer. I try to show the schemers how pathetic their attempts to control things really are. So, when I say that you and your fellow Jedi was nothing personal, you know that I'm telling the truth. It's the schemers that put you where you are. You were a schemer, you had plans, and look where that got you. I just did what I do best. I took your little plan and I turned it on itself. Look what I did to this ship with a lightsaber and a couple of force powers. Hmmm? You know... You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a rebel soldier will get murdered, or a freighter full of stormtroopers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan." But when I say that one little old Jedi will die, well then everyone loses their minds! Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It's fair!"

That's ACIN. He's not a schemer. He's an agent of chaos.

Chaotix's use of Juyo is interesting, but given the mechanics of this game it is pretty weak to vote on abilities alone, particularly when Chaotix is already claiming Dark Jedi. In any case, the person who attacked Ignoramus is clearly the Sith Master. That person used two separate abilities in the attack, which means they could not have pulled off a second attack on the same night. Since Chaotix is seen attacking with the trio, he cannot be the Sith Master. Chaotix could well be the Apprentice, but we need to kill the Master first. So, even if you are right about Chaotix being Sith, you have the order mixed up. Lynch ACIN first, then kill Chaotix at night.

Is it really the confessed Dark Jedi you need to worry about, though?

In the Star Wars game hosted by Zack at TWC, I knew of like 3 neutral players. They are a pain in the endgame, but if I knew they were neutral, I also knew they weren't mafia.

As such, I was able to narrow down who was mafia.

Chaotix has a pattern of night behavior which proves he is not the starting Sith Lord, and he can probably also prove he's busy on nights where Renata was acting Sithy.

Chaotix is a bad lynch unless Renata dies. Then he's a somewhat obvious Sith Apprentice candidate. Even so, removing the master removes Chaotix as a threat, because the Sith Apprentice can't recruit him.

The Sith Lord is the only lynch that matters. Remember, you guys found out through the holocron, that it needed to be this way:

Dark Lord of the Sith must be lynched.
Sith Lord must be lynched.
Apprentice must be lynched.

In that order, or else they can just be revived or recruited again. You guys know this, but you forgot. Chaotix is the least of your concerns at the moment. He might have been a fine choice instead of killing a normal jedi one of the early rounds, but now you need to kill the sith, and killing him isn't killing sith.

He's also for some reason dedicated to wiping out the sith, even though he's neutral. He's roleplaying his character well.

So if the sith master used two abilities and a bunch of people were vigging, we have a short list of possibles? What's the list?

Seriously, this should have been looked at.

This was critical. You could have determined who the Sith Master was through process of elimination.

That's what the lightsaber colors appearing in the writeup were for. That's your best investigative tool of all.

I was truthful when I said "saber colors don't mean anything, except red always means Sith."

It doesn't matter what color they are, just that they appear in the writeup. If you can prove, through your saber color, that you were in the writeup doing something while the sith master was busy, you're not the sith master.

This could have been solved by spreadsheet by now. Just a little bit of cluedo style process of elimination.

Kudos to Sasaki for pointing this out. Sad no one tried it.

Sorry about the double post.

Vote: ACIN

No sense keeping him alive if he wants to be a Sith.

I agree. But, you could have used his golden lightsaber to prove he wasn't a Sith. Therefore, he was a provably bad lynch.

Lynch him later, when you think he could possibly BE a Sith. He might accidentally vig Renata on his crazy killing sprees and prove that she's using cloak again. That's clues.

Sith are far more dangerous than ACIN.

Well, whether tincow is right or wrong, unvote, vote:ACIN is probably the best choice at this time.
If he is killing jedi and wants to be a sith, we want him dead, whatever his real identity is.

It's just a matter of priorities.

You want the Sith Master dead.
Short of that, you want the apprentice known, and blocked every night until the Master dies.
Short of that, lynch a suspect with force breath.
Short of that, you can lynch jedi on the dark side of the force, starting with ACIN.

He was the fourth best lynch. You could have done better.

Basically sums up my thoughts too. He's said that he's actively trying to mess up town efforts, that's not a good thing at all.

vote: acin


The problem is that Double A is a replacement player, and usually they don't have any role. Now that's not to say it isn't impossible for him to be Sith, but I don't see it as likely that he could be anything more than the apprentice. The way you've put it makes me think he is the apprentice, how does his being a replacement correlate with Ironsides's death?

Psychonaut hasn't raised any red flags with his posts basically all game. Even after he matched the description of someone who was "too powerful" in one of the writeups. No one followed up on him because he's successfully hiding in the town's blind spot perfectly.

Kagemusha is a great player, but I do believe Psychonaut has him beat hands-down in this regard.

Three things, some important, some not:

1. People need time to discuss things besides who gets lynched.
2. Not everyone has had a chance to speak yet
3. I am far too lazy to end the round mid-way today after the last 48 hours of fun.

People should have been discussing what to do for the night phase, proposing theories on how to solve the game with the available actions.

People were moving as one and voting as one, but unfortunately, they were also thinking as one.

That's not good. There needs to be ideas generated, plans considered. Otherwise it's all on the shoulders of someone who might just pick randomly and not give it a second thought.

You needed this vital time to discuss and solve. It was solvable here, but the opportunity was blown, as far as I can tell.

If anything loses the game, it is the lack of effort in solving the mystery through all available tools.

Granted, some people tried hard to solve things based on behavior. But you had other tools.

A good game, but Sith did play better than the Jedi.




Anyways, nothing else of consequence happens, in my opinion.

ACIN is lynched. One less Jedi vote, but one less potential death by a psychotic, murderous townie for his own amusement I suppose.

At this point it is officially crunch time. You needed to have removed Psychonaut's force breath by now. He's far too dangerous to be left alive.

Night Sixteen- The Fall of the Order

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Night chatting is enabled. You need it.

As before, follow these actions. If you do not, we can assume you are not aiming for a town victory, and therefore are an enemy of the town.

If you can protect, protect Ig. If you can't protect, investigate Khazaar. If you can do neither, do nothing.

Obviously defending yourself is allowed, but do no other night actions.

If you investigate khazaar, send me the result you get. Do not tell others what you get, as I will be cross-referencing results I receive.

This plan of action removes half the tools the jedi had at their disposal, which included drain knowledge which is a way to prove you were doing something with one of your slots, and using lightsabers against someone who had force push or force wave, which is a way you can prove you were doing something with one of your slots. When the Sith use two slots, you have proven you aren't that Sith this way.

Telling the Sith who you're investigating and defending is also bad.

They doubled up their attacks on Igno for maximum damage.

pever was trying, and it had its charms, but this plan allowed a crucial victory to happen for the Sith.

You would have been better off acting randomly. Just sheer luck could have helped you out of this mess, by hitting Renata or Psycho who were using cloak and trance. Drain a Sith Power. Prove your innocence.

All these opportunities were lost here, on a game-critical round.

Can't fault pever for coming up with a game plan. Every other townie could have proposed a better one.

Don't be hard on pever. It is every townie's fault, not just his. At least he was showing leadership. It was the wrong track to take, but it was effort nonetheless.

Even dropping the vig kills didn't warrant dropping other powers from the equation.

Day Seventeen- The death spiral

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I WANT CSARGO'S BLOOD

This is pretty much the entire case on Csargo. You don't have much information on him, which is valid. Maybe should have investigated or vig killed him then.

Vote: Csargo. I mean... who else?

Indeed, who?

I am the new Grandmaster.

Csargo is a good choice. I have absolutely no information on him.

Vote: Csargo

Renata can only be guilty if the Sith are capable of attacking with an alt-color lightsaber. I won't rule that out, but I think it's less likely. If it weren't for that uncertainty, she would be a likely candidate to be the Sith.
The same applies for Psychonaut and Diamondeye.

Diana Abnoba, Double A, and Seon can consider themselves under significant suspicion. PM me if you have any evidence that could clear your name.

wideyedwanderer (N8) and Khazaar (N12) both appear to have been attacked by Sith, but it's possible they were hit by vigilantes with lightning instead. Gonna have to check that out again.

Nightbringer had better PM me his role, his lightsaber color, and his actions for at least the past five or so nights or else I'm going to consider him a prime suspect, too.

Finally, if anybody is a Dark Jedi, PM me and tell me. You are not under any greater suspicion than normal, but your actions for the next few nights need to be regulated. I will endeavor to keep you alive so that you can win if you will endeavor to help me find the Sith so that the rest of us can win, by following my orders.

OH YOU NEARLY HAD IT HERE.

Renata and Psychonaut "likely" to be Sith if the Sith can attack with alt-colored sabers.

Think of it this way: Jedi can attack with jedi sabers. They have that color. If a jedi is recruited by the sith, they still have their old sabers, as evidenced by Ironside.

Sith also have "jedi" sabers for defense. Obviously the Sith have alt-colored savers. The question is, can they attack with them? The answer was seen when you had Kagemusha in the writeups attacking people with double-blue sabers.

This was known already, or at least knowable.

Tonight was just more evidence that only the Sith can win through night actions. Don't attack, scatter, and we will buy ourselves enough time to figure this out. vote: Csargo for now.

Why not figure it out now, while everyone is here talking about it?

Please tell us why you are voting WeW. Anything can help!

I agree. A silent leader isn't being helpful here.

Csargo has slipped under the radar. There can't be any harm in getting rid of him.

Famous last words.

That felt slightly overpowered...

I personally think Nightbringer is the Apprentice for reasons that I discussed with pevergeen before my death. Since we need to get the Master first though, he is not a good vote. Csargo looks like a decent lynch to me.

What abilities the jedi had, as a team, were overpowered.

More than two healers for several rounds. Multiple vigilantes. Multiple people with multiple pro-town night actions. Proven innocent pro-town network who can't really be killed off and can vote. Write-ups containing enough information to solve the game through brute force. The ability to avoid bad lynches so you'd focus on night actions and solving the game through night actions. The Jedi Holocron revealing the powers and abilities and strengths and weaknesses of the game. Jedi learning Dark Side powers. Multiple roleblockers. Drain Knowledge. Force Meld.

This was a night where a Sith failed to kill anyone, and the other got two free kills plus one, when they could have had four successful attempts even without Force Meld causing additional deaths. And the risks of Force Meld were known, repeatedly in fact.

No, I disagree with Tincow here, what the Sith were able to do with Force Destruction was not overpowered.

It was known you can die using Meld. It was known that your protected person can also die. Logically, that meant there was an outcome where all three could die if a person had two defenders.

The Sith got lucky they never murdered each other. The Sith got lucky the grandmasters kept missing the necessary Force Far Sight power. The Sith got lucky that the first Sith Lord never got lynched. The Sith got lucky that dark side powers were never drained, and they were never roleblocked. The Sith got lucky that they found recruitable people in short order. The Sith got lucky that the Jedi ended up murdering themselves almost as often as the Sith murdered them.

The Sith got this far through an increasingly improbable series of fortunate events, and skill, and cunning. Town, on the other hand, missed many opportunities. And they too got lucky on occasion, but failed to capitalize.

I think a fair analysis of this game will conclude, as crazy as it was, it was indeed balanced.

If Chaotix killed Beskar, surely that means he's not the Sith Master. While I agree his statements about his role are scummy, I don't think we he have the time left to go after any target that is not the Sith Master.

Every round for the past several rounds, there have been known proven townies in the living column. Chaotix here is correctly ID'ed as not the Sith master, even though the reasoning falls into the WIFOM category.

More conclusive is: he was busy when the Sith were.

Why doesn't anybody just ask? The Sith are not required to use their red lightsabers. What color a person shows, on attack or defense, is largely irrelevant. Scans are largely irrelevant, at least in terms of finding the Sith Lord. But actions (taking them at all, that is, and being accountable for them) might not be. Can we get an account of what actions have been taken by everyone left in the game, please?

So far I have the following people as unlikely to be the Sith Lord, in rough order of certainty:
Chaotix -- attacked Beskar, etc
Diamondeye -- presumably attacked by Sith last night, frequent vig, bad investigations
me, Psychonaut -- present in vig attacks when the Sith Lord was busy
Diana Abnoba -- bad investigations
Seon -- looked weak when attacked (he told me who he is)

Khazaar claims attacks, but I don't know who attacked him.

And Csargo, Nightbringer, Double A, wideyedwanderer.

Please fill in the gaps and correct my bad assumptions if there are any. For now,

vote: Csargo

This is why Renata is so dangerous. She's like a sweet Siren, commanding your minds... leading you to your doom.

"me, psychonaut" = Freudian slip. Ouch, Renata, very ouch.

ATPG, thank you for that very informative publicly announcement regarding the dangers of an overloaded inbox. It has encouraged me to empty my own inbox of old messages. You should consider a career in the surgeon general's office.

I've been reporting my actions to the force ghosts.

There doesn't appear to be any case against Csargo except for that he "seems suspicious." I agree that he does, and he may be a good lynch. But with the game on the line here, I think it's important for me to share what information I have. I think Double A2 is a good lynch for the following reasons. Last night I used drain knowledge on him and I received Force Persuasion, a level IV investigation ability that senses if someone can be turned to the dark side. The whole game he has claimed to be uninterested, saying he's too busy playing video games to contribute much. He's hardly voted, yet he's been busy enough sending in night orders to acquire a level IV investigation ability. Something doesn't seem to add up here.

Unvote, Vote: Double A2.

Someone needs to be taking careful notes, and correcting these assumptions when they happen.

Really, every townie should be taking their own notes from their perspective. Investigation IV was already known to be a common, non-grandmaster power.

Csargo has a way of lurking to victory using short comedic posts. I think he is a pretty good lynch choice at this point.

Describes Csargo's typical behavior; so the lynch would be Csargo, for acting like Csargo.

I think we've been over this before. As odd as it seems, Investigation III is the GM-only ability and Investigation IV is just another random tier.

Half the time when I feel like saying something, Tincow says it for me.

I am Carnus Daye, Dark Blue, and the only thing I've done this entire game was kill Warman.

Now, let's look at the night writeup for that night.

I don't even remember what's there, so this is a real-time experiment I am doing.

What would I automatically do if I were a townie in this game?

I would check that writeup.

In that writeup, obvious Sith tries to attack Ignoramus, and fails to kill Ignoramus, Blackadder, or Tincow, proving all of them innocent.
You can see Bane Anded with his purple lightsaber being attacked.
You can see Frid Fefar with his double-blue sabers getting killed.
You can see Diamondeye with his emerald saber attacking Bip Kenner with his double-yellow saber.
You can see Va'ard Kypaz being attacked by three people, one of them has an emerald saber, the other has a dark blue saber. But, Csargo is claiming to have attacked Warman, who was All'uan Kraytous, and Renata will claim to have attacked Double A.
You can see Chain Lightning being used on Warman.
We also see chain lightning being used on Yaseikhaan, which no one claims credit for. This is another Sith attack.
You can also see a second assassin, attacking and killing Warman with a dark blue saber.

Csargo's story checks out that much.

So, does this prove Csargo isn't a Sith? No... but it does show he was doing what he said he was doing that night, and two other Sith attacks are accounted for. Interestingly, Renata is vig killing with her dark blue saber, so that leaves a hole where Csargo could have done it.

Bad luck there.

But suppose the Sith master had shown two attacks together in the writeup instead of two separate ones? You'd have been able to conclude that Csargo wasn't that Sith, and thus, more likely than others to not be Sith.

I wonder if anyone did this kind of check before continuing on.

At least 6 or 7 townies posted after this reveal, I don't think any of them thought to check to see if they could clear Csargo based on evidence.

Correct me if I am wrong. Did anyone else check?

The Dead Body of Mill Kunaay gets up as a zombie, and scratches "DOUBLE A IS SITH, PLZ LYNCH HIM?" on a wall somewhere, then returns to being dead.

The dead have all the time in the world to do such analysis. They don't have to worry about night actions or voting or responding to accusations. All they can do is think hard about who is guilty and who is innocent based on evidence and behavior.

They also don't have to worry about one suspect, they could analyze each remaining player and solve the game that way.



Csargo: (6) Seon, Chaotix, Cecil XIX, Nightbringer, Diamondeye, Renata

In the end, a quiet lynch of a quiet player who quietly protested his innocence. The main reason for this lynch: not much was known on Csargo.

He had force breath, so no lynch happened.

Meanwhile, Psychonaut and Renata go under the radar big time. The only person even considering them is the GM, Chaotix, and he's reluctant to go after them because he's thinking about lightsaber color.

I did warn ya not to focus on lightsaber color.... The only thing color can do is show up in the writeup as an identifying mark, along with your name if you're attacked.

Night Seventeen- The death spiral continues

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

All right then. Here is the plan.

This is IMPORTANT for all players to read, as I am dictating your NIGHT ACTIONS.

Tonight, you are ALL to attack Double A.
You are all to use ONLY your LIGHTSABER.
You are to use TWO FORMS, so I can be sure you are not doing any other actions.
You are to PM ME the COLOR of your lightsaber and the FORMS you are using tonight. I don't care about the other forms you have, I want only the ones you are using tonight.

Everyone does this. There are no exceptions but Double A himself, and I suggest Double A refrain from doing anything or investigate if he thinks he will survive.

This way, in the write-up tomorrow, I will be able to tell exactly who followed the orders.

Anybody who doesn't follow orders is to be considered a Sith, as there will be no other explanation for any other kills. So, if you're not a Sith, follow the orders, otherwise the whole plan will fall apart. If you are a Sith, I couldn't care less because I will catch you either way.

If everybody follows the orders, I will know for certain that the Sith can use alt-color lightsabers, and I will know how to proceed. In addition, we will have prevented any night-kills except for the suspect Double A.
If the Sith disobey the orders, we will know for sure who they are.

Either way, we win. Do not fail me.

This does have merit in that they must use alt-colored sabers in order to disguise themselves if they don't want to be outed by brute force, and it also means that it will limit the number of attacks the Sith can do.

It is brilliant in some ways. Hopefully Double A can fight it off.

Sadly, you could use roleblocks, investigations, protections, and drains, but this mass vig attempt will also limit the effectiveness of the Jedi at night.

This plan also will not out any Sith unless Double A dies and is Sith, so therefore it does not out any Sith.

Hate to burst your bubble, but sith can perform 2 actions on 2 different people.

Are you suggesting they could perform 8 kills tonight? Am I misunderstanding?

You've been shown otherwise.

Two sets of two. Thats how high tier abilities/ranks work.

One set of two, for each Sith, yes. Two sets of two, for each Sith, no.

I support the Grandmaster's plan, and urge others to follow. Using two saber forms should equal two active abilities. Apologies to Double A if he's suspicious, but we have good reason to suspect him.

The plan is pretty sound. Shame it's on the wrong target.

Sorry I've been busy this past few days.
I don't think Double A is guilty. But others probably has better idea about it.

We should lynch Csargo again if there is tomorrow. Is Diana a bad candidate?

Everyone has missed Psychonaut.

Psychonaut has totally avoided suspicion basically this whole game, except for one round where he was attacked and kicked his attacker's hind ends.

Other than that, he's been flawless. No shame in losing to this guy, because you weren't even close. He earned it.

Is the main reason for not lynching Chaotix that he attacked a Sith Apprentice Night 1?

If so, food of thought: if Sith Master is allowed to attack his own Apprentice (or vice versa), then attacking my partner is exactly what I would do. Not N1, of course, because that would be too obvious. Then again, and I know I'm entering the domain of WIFOM here, that would be exactly what a very ballsy mafioso would do.

Anyway, somehow, following the lead of a Dark Side Jedi who was keen to kill on the first night, doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Had a change of heart - kill Chaotix!!!

I think this entry is pretty damning...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bane

It may be a coincidence, but I don't think so. We know that Chaotix has a purple sabre - so does Bane. His name is Bane Andred - maybe a coincidence, but unlikely. Also, when Chaotix approached me to form a vig group, he claimed he was the Bane of the Sith - his victory conditions were to eliminate the Sith, but at the same time he claimed to be Dark Jedi - a perfect cover for constant vig attacks. What is more - in all 15 of the Holocron entries there is no mention of the Bane of the Sith - the role Chaotix claims for himself.

Instead of everybody attack Double A tonight, everybody should attack Chaotix

This plan is pointless for the reason pevergreen gave. In my experience, late-game exuberance like the kind you exhibit here is the sign of a mafioso who believes they have the game locked down.

Andres also has a good point. How the did Chaotix know that Beskar was Sith on N1? No way he could know if he was a real vigilante. Which means it was a lucky guess. Which means he was picking a random target on N1. So, why didn't Chaotix continue with random killings after N1? If he had no problems with it N1, he shouldn't have had problems with it on N2. Indeed, he should have felt vindicated by his method and continued. But he didn't. Beskar was a very specific and defined target and Chaotix did not make random kills after Beskar, which means Chaotix targeted him for a non-random reason. Which means Chaotix knew Beskar was Sith on N1.

Yes, kill Chaotix tonight. Then lynch him when you fail. Anyone who can use Drain Knowledge should drain Chaotix, and specify Force Breath as the ability you want to pull.

All the town leadership is focusing on the red herring, the one who can prove he wasn't Sith for basically the whole game. But the Dark Side clouds EVERYTHING.... including their judgment.

Tincow's plan to attack Chaotix would have resulted in a bunch of people appearing in the writeup looking for him, and not finding him. It would probably have forced a lynch on Chaotix day 18 because of the cloak. Still likely to happen.

I have no solid proof but I think Chaotix is innocent.
Information I read said that we started with one dark jedi who has resistance against the Sith.
If thats the case, he is not the Sith Master we are after. We shouldn't kill Dark Jedis until we kill all the Siths.

And his picture looks like Luke Skywalker.

Beefy still shines like a diamond in the rough, even though he's missed Psychonaut completely.

No vigs.

Lynch csargo again.

Take it from there.

Csargo lynch bad, vigs didn't actually hurt the town here though. Double A survives as a proven innocent Force Ghost.

Can anyone solve the game based on the available data?


Chaotix- In writeup attacking twice.
Csargo- In writeup attacking twice.
Diana Abnoba
Nightbringer- In writeup attacking twice.
Psychonaut
Renata- In writeup attacking twice.
Seon- In writeup attacking twice.
wideyedwanderer- in writeup attacking once.

Diana also has the alibi of trying to heal Ignoramus last night. Not a very Sithy action.

Who does that leave? Psychonaut.

Come on, I know you guys can get this one.... even if you can't figure out between Diana and Psycho it is 50/50 coin flip....

Hmmm... that shows you attacked Rebel Jeb on N4 as well, which is... believable under those circumstances. I am also seeing your attacks on N1 and N4 along with two Sith attacks on both nights, as well as two Sith attacks on N3. N2 is hard to figure out, as there are two attacks but neither is clearly identifiable as Sith. Could possibly be a single Sith attack and perhaps one from Kage. I do believe the Sith started out with a single kill each, so that would seem to substantiate your alibi. I still have difficulty buying just how lucky you got on N1, but I will withdraw my FoS for now and ponder the situation some more.

Start thinking on Day 18, Tincow, I KNOW you especially can get this. You're too ruthlessly logical not to deduce it's either Diana or Psycho....

I've taken a good long look at the night actions from the first few nights, and the nature of the visible actions is such that I have difficultly believing that Chaotix could have pulled off a Sith attack on N1 and N4 in addition to his purple saber hits. Under those cricumstances, everything else that is scummy about Chaotix seems to be irrelevant, as he has an alibi.

I'm going to do my best to just keep my mouth shut from here on out, as I seem to be doing more harm than good when trying to find the Sith.

You were doing awesome, dude! Just clear your mind and focus. Use the force....

And done slaying the Finals dragon. People should be ignoring Chaotix, and attacking him. The sudden urgency in his posting can be tasted. Also, Kage, stop being unhelpful.

Tee hee... Chaotix is tantalizingly close to victory with either the Jedi or the Sith.

While I'm still suspicious of Chaotix, please follow his advice. If he is Sith it should be detectable.

He looks guilty as all heck with these dark side killing powers, but there's also an obvious sith running around killing Jedi, not coordinated with the town attacks. It also has destruction, which means it is probably the one that killed Ignoramus, not Chaotix.

Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to myself.

Ah, Renata. Sneaking under the radar so well.





And so, night ends, and we have 3 dead Jedi. At least they can't be turned into Sith Ghosts anymore.

Day Eighteen: A New Hope?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Yeah, that plan went real well...

Chaotix deserves to be lynched for that. It's fine if he's not Sith, because if he isn't the Sith deserve to win anyway.

Gah!

Okay, that's your first reaction. Sit on it and let it stew.... where's that big juicy brain I know you have. It's not like you to give up.

My guess is Chaotix.

Double A took quite a beating before he went down, there were a few moments there where I felt for sure that we had gotten a sith.

Jedi master at work, that's all.

It is hard to tell who is who since the town is killing each other.

I disagree. This is classic process of elimination, classical_hero!

Everyone can claim the saber and form they used. Narrow it down!

I disagree, although it will depend on Chaotix report. Here's what I see: Double A attacked Chaotix like he said he did. The Sith did not join in on the attack against Double A, instead going after their own targets. Everyone else followed the plan. Provided everyone who attacked Double A told Chaotix what attacks they were going to use, I'd things are going fine. Chaotix believed he could eliminite Sith candidates from this data and he has it.

YES!!! YES!!! The Chosen One gets it! To Xando Caecilius, you listen!

Go rookie go! Go rookie go! Rookie MVP of the world! Get em! Get em!

Maybe this is still just a shot in the dark but This far into the game and daina is still awfully quiet. perhaps that is a viable lynch.

She's one of the two viable lynches today. Eliminate her, she's a Force Ghost, and you know it's Psychonaut, so attack him tonight.

Preferred is lynch Psychonaut, though.

Looking at the Sith actions it appears that they both used two different attacks, so assuming they are allowed only two attacks total then they couldn't have been any of the attackers on Double A. It appears only three people didn't attack Double A, so the sith must be two of those three.

CRACK! SMASH! HIT IT OUT OF THE BALL PARK!!!

Come on Frozen, which one? Which one? Pick pick pick pick pick....

IMO, Chaotix just played you all. He's the Sith Master and has Force Breath. Even if you lynch him here, he'll surive and butcher several more of you tonight. If you then lynch him tomorrow, his apprentice will still be around and finish the rest of you off. Looks to me like he's got the game in the bag, and a rather well-deserved win as well. Killing his own apprentice on the first night was a bold move and he got away with it. A very decent victory, all considered.

Shake it off, I know you can do it.

Diana Abnoba must be Sith - why is she still alive? She's lurking big time, given a flimsy excuse, and gotten off scot free.

Except she hasn't gotten off scot-free, she got lynched already and is being mentioned as a suspect over and over again, the pressure slowly ramping up, and now she will be voted again, and her behavior hasn't changed.

She knows this strategy gets her killed, and if she were mafia she'd change it. But it's not a strategy, it's just life.

I agree.

Vote: Diana Abnoba.

Seriously, why didn't we try to lynch her again after she survived the last lynching?

I am not sure. But hey at least now she's got Force Ghost. *shrug*

vote: Diana Abnoba for now. She didn't start the game as an initiate, so she's a better lynch than Nightbringer.

Reasonable logic, but it works for Psychonaut too.

I don't concider WeW, Diana and Renata as likely sith lords I must admit.
That leaves at best 5 people I would be interested in giving a closer look; Chaotix, Nightbringer, Csargo, Seon and Psychonaut. . . And I am not so sure about psychonaut. . he has had an absense from this game which stands out quiet a bit.. and I don't expect that from the sith lord concidering how active both sith were after death... That would be less likely to happen if the sith lord weren't really paying attention to the game.

Of the two "real" suspects today, God Emperor doesn't think it is Diana.

What about the alternative, Psychonaut?

Man, he's good at this game. He's invisible.

I have not had time to fully analyze the write-up yet, but I can say that all players who PM'd me and said they were going to attack showed up.

I got no PM from Psychonaut AT ALL, and Diana Abnoba claimed she was not able to kill and would protect me- and clearly in the write-up, she did not. Evidently she was not expecting me to be attacked by Double A- and so even though I was wrong about you, Double A, you have been very helpful in your death.

All evidence points to Psychonaut and Diana Abnoba being the Sith, and as Psychonaut is higher in rank, I believe he is more likely to be the Master. I will continue to analyze the write-up and provide a full account of what I can be sure everyone did last night.

Vote: Psychonaut

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!!!

Townie MVP: Chaotix?

Diana claimed to be unable to attack? I find that to be totally bogus. Even I gained the ability to attack a few days back when I became a Master. (And I had never attacked anyone prior to last night.) Didn't she begin the game as a higher rank too? Correct me if I'm wrong, but all living players are Masters, and all Masters can attack.

Vote: Diana Abnoba

@Double A - Sorry. But you really didn't do yourself any favors by lurking.

Khazaar, where are you! You could refute this.... you weren't able to attack....

I am sorry you had to die. But in death you removed a suspect and have helped to narrow it down to who I believe with almost certainty the Sith are.

ATTENTION:

My previous post had the correct assumptions. Based on the previous night's write-up, including actions and players that died during the phase, I can rule out all players from being Sith except for Psychonaut, Diana Abnoba, and wideyedwanderer.

wideyedwanderer is a special case, as he claimed to have one one night action- and he only attacked with one Form in the write-up. I cannot tell for sure that the Sith attacks each used two night actions, but it seems likely since each one uses a "dark energy field" first. The field doesn't seem to be an attack, though... it could be an active defense of the Sith's. For that reason, and based on the taunts Ironside keeps making, there is something to suggest it is possible there is only one Sith who attacks two different people with one action every night. I deem that to be a slim possibility. Either way, it is likely that wideyedwanderer is innocent, even though I cannot prove it.

Psychonaut did not attack Double A last night, and he did not PM me at all, even when I asked for him plans.

Diana Abnoba PM'd me, saying she could not attack and that she would protect me. I suggested she also protect Diamondeye if possible. It is clear from the write-up she did not protect either of us.

Psychonaut and Diana Abnoba are the Sith. I cannot be sure which is the Master and which is the Apprentice, but Psychonaut's promotions came first, so he is slightly higher in rank and therefore more likely to be the Master.

PLEASE VOTE FOR PSYCHONAUT.

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!!!

I'm not voting for Pyscho on the grounds that he'll get angry at me again if I cause his loss.

Well that's a silly reason.

I suppose we can go with Diana. They are both Sith, anyway.

She is a sure lynch because she lost her force breath (unless she got it again, somehow), and I can't really know that Psychonaut is the Master over her; for all we know she could be the Master.

There is only a problem if she turns out to be the Apprentice. Then Psychonaut can recruit one of you at random and we are back to square one. But that seems as likely as Diana being the Master and recruiting someone when we kill Psychonaut, and we can't even be sure Psychonaut will be lynched today, so...

Unvote, Vote: Diana Abnoba

Let's go with it.

The party begins at Sith headquarters. Where my Tincow at? Sasaki? Andres?

Regardless of whether Diana is the Master or the Apprentice, you should all vig Psycho tonight.

Unless she has Force Breath again. Then, for the love of the Force, Vig her. Vig her with fire.

And this time, don't bother to just attack with sabers, we already know who the Sith are. Use all means at your disposal to get rid of them. Destroy the Sith, you must.

Well.... your vig attack on Psychonaut has to get through his Force Trance power.

Good luck on that....

Sigurd is the sith lord, you need to kill Sigurd.

Indeed.

Hmmm, yes. Purge the lurker with fire. I'd far prefer to lose to an Infiltrate-Scum than to a Lurker-Scum, so kill off the more embarrassing option.

wait, did i actually say i was force focused... that is just wrong, it must have been a mistype, because I most definitely have never been force focused. you can ask pevergreen, I'm pretty sure I told him that a while ago.

double A, if you are so sure psycho is the master, please tell us why.

Yes, Double A, tell us.

As I have said before in thread, I am a healer. I can't stop an attack but can heal someone after. So at this last stage of the game I'm pretty worthless, because most of you have enough force powers to not be harmed or like in Iggy's case blown to pieces, to dust, and I can't heal dust. And to say again, just so you know, I started out at the bottom, and very slowly worked up in ranks. I maybe one of the only players that has not killed anyone this whole game, but I also know I haven't had the time to put into this game to really help, so I understand the the votes on me. I will tell you I don't have force breath anymore, so this lynch will go through, and I will see you guys on the other side. But please get Chaotix and Psychonaut tonight!!! Best of luck, to me it doesn't look good.

Vote: Chaotix

Et tu, Diana? You of all people should be voting for the Psychonaut.

I guess that job really did cut down on your note-taking. I know you'd be able to see, from reading the thread, that Chaotix was busy last night and that Psycho is the only other candidate besides you.

I know you're good enough to see it. I have faith in you.

But not to worry, basically everyone I have faith in has gotten fooled by the MASTER Sith berserker, Psycho-sigurd.

That post doesn't smell like scum to me. Just lynch Chaotix. He'll survive with Force Breath, but at least we can go down with our heads held high.

!!!!!

This post strikes me as uncharacteristically illogical of Tincow.

Diana or Psychonaut.... and if not Diana.... Chaotix?

And I am confuuuuused.

I don't think he is, if anything, he would be the apprentice.

FREAKIN VOTE FOR CHAOTIX. He is the Sith lord, I can't put this any plainer. He has surpassed a Sasaki WIFOM in scumminess.



I don't think Psycho is the master.

Well, town, you got beat. You got beat hard. You got beat hard, fair and square. No shame in it.

Psychonaut beat you all, he truly avoided your scum detection. And, even those I consider highly logical, good analytical people couldn't catch him in a situation I consider 50/50.

Therefore, Psychonaut is most deserving of the coming victory. It would take a miracle to stop him now.

Oh god. Congratulations sith.

Why diana over psychonaut?

Sasaki? Can you turn their heads?

Unless the sith apprentice could perform 2 night kills on the first night, chaotix CANNOT be the sith master. I think it is highly unlikely that the apprentice would start able to do this on night 1, and as NO ONE ELSE claimed to have killed Beskar, Chaotix IS NOT THE SITH MASTER.

As to whether we should target diana or psychonaut first. I say diana because she is less likely to have force breath at this point. Even if she is the apprentice and not the master we need to cut down on the night kills tonight. We can then all try to vig psychonaut tonight, and failing that lynch him.

That's right, Chaotix is not the Sith master.

Hey, you're at least talking about which of the two need to go first instead of assuming it must be Diana.

Congrats.

Agreed. Also, can anyone point to me an instance in the writeups where a Jedi's been saved by another's healing?

Amazingly, NO ONE has... very few people ever got it, and those who did didn't use it, and those who did failed because the attack was too powerful to heal.

More like; Is 'Force Healing' even confirmed as an ability? I had it in Sigurd's game but that means nothing in this one.

Legit question, but easily answered.

I can confirm there are healing powers, yes.

There ya go. Now, look at the writeups.... Diana tried to heal the Grandmasters. She failed, but SHE IS THERE!

SHE IS IN THE WRITEUPS TRYING TO HELP!!!

I mentioned before: there is a slim possibility that there is only the Sith master left, and that he has been killing two per night with one action each. If that is the case, it is almost certainly Psychonaut and not Diana.

So, while I believe Diana is likely Sith and I think she should be lynched, I am not infallible. I went by what the evidence from last night suggested, and it suggested that Psychonaut, Diana, and/or both of them were the only players capable of being the Sith.

Force Healing is a confirmed ability; it is in the Holocron and has several tiers. Actually, in the write-up when Ignoramus/An-wan Dyas died, there was a player who showed up afterwards but didn't do anything; this would fit with Diana's claimed story that she tried to use Force Healing on Ignoramus, but he was killed. If no one else will counter-claim that, then Diana is unlikely to be Sith. However, it should be noted that even if Diana did use Force Healing on Ignoramus, the Apprentice appeared only to use one action in attacking Diamondeye that night. It is possible that even if Diana has Force Healing, she is still a Sith and should not be dropped.

In that case, though, it seems clear that Diana would be the Apprentice and not the Master, though.

Unvote, Vote: Psychonaut

Please vote with me. Diana will be kept under close guard tonight.

PM me if you have a roleblocking ability or are a Dark Jedi.

YES!

Chaotix for MVP. He found it.

With 5 hours left, can the Grandmaster lead the Jedi to victory? CAN HE DO IT????

WILL THEY FOLLOW???

I have taken anybody wanting me dead as a rational argument based on fear and paranoia that I will betray all of you, or have done so already.

And I will reiterate: if I had betrayed the Jedi, you would all be dead already.

I could've picked Initiates and Padawans to kill every night and made sure that they succeeded, just to lower the town's numbers. Instead I picked powerful characters like Joooray, Psychonaut, and Kagemusha to go up against, because I didn't trust them.

I could've told you to sit tight and let the Sith kill you last night; I could've killed two players myself last night and coordinated with the Sith using Kagemusha so that they killed at least two more. Instead I concentrated everybody's actions on one player and monitored them closely, so that there was minimal chaos and we would have a good lynch today.

If I had betrayed you, it wouldn't even look like we stand a chance against the Sith at this point.

YES!

To Bane Anded you listen!

I take it back. Leave the neutrals alive, they seem to care more about their own death, enough that they'll try very hard to figure out who the mafia are, so you'll kill them, so they can win.

Neutral = Advanced townie.

This this this. I know it's hard to trust people in this game, but so what? The people who accuse Chaotix say the game is already lost, while Chaotix says we still have a chance. He's the one we need to be listening to.

Also:

I know for a fact this isn't true, you were promoted to Master the same day I was promoted to Knight. Still, there is your roleclaim and a general consensus that Psychonaut is a better lynch. unvote, vote: Psychonaut. Notice how's been quite since the fourteenth. And just look at this quote I find of him defending Diana:

She did start out at the bottom, but she got promoted faster than you due to deaths of superiors.



Still, excellent vote switch.

Won't matter, Psycho and Renata can easily make sure that Psycho doesn't get lynched.

Agreed. If Chaotix is Sith and he wins, he completely deserves it.

Also, I repeat the argument I made a week or two ago: If the Sith Master can become the Jedi GM, this game is broken.

Why's that?

Ok then Chaotix. Your on

Unvote, Vote: psychonaut

Cheer up, Beefy Jean.
Oh, what can it mean.
To a daydream believer
And a homecoming queen.

You once thought of me
As a jedi knight on a ship.
Now you know how happy I can be.
Oh, and our good times start and end
Without republic credits to spend.
But how much, baby, do we really need.

Cheer up, Beefy Jean.
Oh, what can it mean.
To a daydream believer
And a homecoming queen.
Cheer up, Beefy Jean.
Oh, what can it mean.
To a daydream believer
And a homecoming queen.

[Instrumental interlude]

Cheer up, Beefy Jean.
Oh, what can it mean.
To a daydream believer
And a homecoming queen.
[Repeat and fade]

Diana Abnoba: (4) Seon, WEW, Nightbringer, Khazaar,

Psychonaut: (3) Chaotix, Cecil, Beefy

Chaotix: (3) pevergreen Double A, Diana



Tally, correct if you see errors.

Still not looking good. If I know Diana, she won't be on to save herself. She's done for.

Deja Vu.

Sort of.

Unvote, Vote: Psychonaut

No anger this time, ok?

Darth Vader getting attacked by the Millennium Falcon: "WHAT???"

unvote, vote:psychonaut

You gotta be kidding me!

Wolf O'Donnell: "NO WAY!!! I DON'T BELIEVE IT!!!"



Psychonaut: (5) Chaotix, Cecil, Beefy pevergreen, Nightbringer

Diana Abnoba: (3) Seon, WEW, Khazaar,

Chaotix: (2) Double A, Diana


Holy poop on a stick! 2 hours to go....


I predict a tie will happen though. Kage, Renata, and Psycho can force it up three, and Diana's vote switch would make it 6-6.

I also don't see Double A or Khazaar or Seon or WEW moving their vote. Typically they vote once a round.

But we shall see.

Out of town posting fromphone. Yes vote forguy who had no internet acess for most week. Veryw well played chaotiz.

FLINCH? Wow....

I think that's the first bad move I've seen from Psychonaut all game...

That would have changed my mind about him. Posting from your phone is Subotan Syndrome!

Convenient that you show up to post as soon as the lynch swings in your direction.

Out of town or not, you are obviously still reading this thread.

Can you feel the dark aura in the air? Oooh my.

Lynch Psychonaut. Then our victory shall be completed.

Ironside, you didn't have to come in to save Chaotix's bacon. It was an WIFOM, the idea was, I say that and they won't lynch him and it worked. Because of it, we attracted more attention away from Chaotix.

This feels very flinchy too.

Everything was going fine until Psycho got some pressure. Not enough to guarantee a lynch, either.

Still, Psycho is going to rip this town asunder tonight. Seriously. Sith are going to go nuts killing people.

This is gonna be tight. There's definitely going to be a showdown.


_____________________


And with 3 minutes to go, Diana has not shown up. Teehee...

I called it.

You even sent me your duel preferences, Diana, couldn't switch your vote to play it safe too?

That's Diana. Busy IRL means BUSY IRL. Hahahaha.


Okay, let's see if the town's luck holds and they actually follow their fearless leader, the dark jedi who murders people to gain MAXIMUM POWA.

Private message from Chaotix:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

"Well, when you stack the odds in one direction, the choice is really quite easy.

Even if I were to be recruited by the Sith, I have found them and outed them to the town. Soon as they die and the game keeps going, the town knows to come after me. And they're already close to lynching me as it is.

And besides, I would let Beskar and Kagemusha take a win? After all that effort I spent killing them? Don't think so.

Don't think this means I am on the town's side, though. If I see my opportunity, I will not hesitate to crush them and take my total victory. Pity they are too weak to kill people and become Dark Jedi themselves to join me; I have no ill will against them, they are just in my way if they choose not to follow my path."

My reply:


The odds were actually stacked in the other direction, IMO.

See, Chaotix might be able to prove that Psychonaut or Diana is one of the Sith. But, he doesn't have to. He could, instead, help slaughter all the Jedi, let the Sith know he's recruitable (Kagemusha could pass along the message) and if a Sith dies, he just takes their place. Assuming he can keep the lynch off of himself for a round or two, he wins.

Even if he dies. That's the important thing.

If Chaotix becomes Sith, he can win with the Sith even in death.

He cannot become a light-side Jedi at this point. His death is ALWAYS going to be failure for him if he doesn't get recruited by the Sith.

His calculation result comes up different from mine. There is no downside to going Dark Side Enlightenment, and there are upsides.

But, he's playing his character. And this is a valid way to play, too.

See: Me in Capo III. I could have gone evil, but I chose to side with who? The town. Yep, I said it again, I said Capo III again, I know I did, go ahead and call me on it.

Maybe it is worth it to stick with the side you chose. It makes people feel like they can trust you after putting faith in you and seeing your hard work together pay off. Switching sides at the end might be effective in the short term, but such a reputation comes back and bites you.

Not mentioning any names. You know who you are.

Night Eighteen- The Fall of the Sith

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Could someone tell me why we didn't vote out Diana? At least we know she doesn't have Force Breath. And going on your form you won't vote for Psychonaught tomorrow night, so this lynch will be wasted.

I admit, Diana isn't doing herself any favors. She does look like she's a Sith Apprentice right about now. She kept voting for Chaotix and didn't vote for Psycho.

Then her night actions tonight, trying to kill Nightbringer, only make her look worse. And, she's using a dark side power. Saved her life, but now she's a Dark jedi and a distraction. A vital distraction for the Sith.

LOL, epic fail on our part. We couldn't even lynch off some one who was lurking/inactive and even forgot to vote.

Crud. I thought Psychonaut was a gonner.

Oh Beskar, the WIFOM, the WIFOM.... it just reeks of nervousness.

Alright, go mass-attack Psycho, and then lynch Diana tomorrow. Game over, Sith. You fought well, but we is victorious. :D

If only it were that straightforward. Renata has avoided your suspicion like a master ninja.

...

Damn you and your infallible reasoning!

Fine, but if you're Sith, I swear on Beefy's life, I will call you a meaniepants.

Chaotix defends himself quite heroically, against some of the most trusted townies in the game.

This is not an easy task, but he does it. And it's freaking Chaotix, a guy I wouldn't trust if he was on MY team.

I will send you all directions individually in the morning. It is important that the Sith not know exactly what we are planning.

If there is anybody who has a roleblock ability, they should contact me ASAP.

Only issue is RL could cause people to not send in orders. They're going to find out when you tell them what they're doing anyway.

Might as well tell them immediately.

Force Breath is the worst ability ever.

It's an annoying little bugger, ain't it?

It has spared far more townies than it has spared Sith, though. Important ones, too.

If you can stop the Sith's night attacks, by blocking the force breath person, you probably have a Sith. If not, you know they are probably innocent.

It can be useful, but like Force Meld, it is a double-edged sword and can be a hindrance as well.

Many things in this game have their dark sides, pardon the pun.

If you guys had lynched Diana I would have still been ranting six months from now, that is all.

LOL Renata makes the game entertaining for the game host.

Sticking up for Diana is so obvious, and yet, it's not what a townie should be doing. Diana is a suspect and there's no reason to defend her at all unless you give the reason which should almost clear her, which is her attempted defenses of Ignoramus when Iggy died, or her vig moves which have failed.

Defending her without those reasons implies perfect information. IMO defending her like this is a bad move, but no one capitalizes on it, and it makes me laugh, so instead, it's simply an unusual move with an exclamation point on the end.

Day Nineteen- The Jedi Sunset

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Diana fails to vig Nightbringer, Nightbringer and Csargo fail to vig Diana, and Chaotix n' friends fail to vig Psychonaut.

The Sith fail to destroy anyone, which is very disappointing. Psycho could have destroyed Seon, who was vulnerable because Psychonaut was not double-Moricho'ed.

Renata could have laid waste to the Jedi with her powers as well, instead they played too defensively and missed a golden opportunity.

But, the upside for them is that Renata is still a ninja. No one suspects her at all. She will be the final Dark Lord of the Sith, as she's been a Sith Lord for 4 nights now, and there's not enough time for her next apprentice to become a Sith Lord, let alone Dark Lord.

Every Sith after Renata will be weak by comparison. She must survive.

Okay, here we go:

I'm assuming this is good?

Except for the three-assassin group. Double purple was definitely Chaotix.

Once again, I'm out of the loop. Oh well.

No Jedi deaths yesterday and last night is an amazingly good thing.

I roleblocked psyhonaut yesterday, and I can notice the sudden lack of Sith Lord killing.

vote: Psychonaut.

At last. Psychonaut ducks suspicion for 17 rounds, does enough damage to potentially propel the Sith to victory.

Jedi finally catch him when there's only 1 besides Chaotix who can't be converted.

Their only mistake was not killing Chaotix sooner.

Here's what I did last night:

[snio]

Vote: Psychonaut

Oh, and nobody died. I'd say that's not half bad.

A decent plan, but you got Diana's lightsaber color wrong, she also has turquoise.

You are also now aware, through the holocron, how the healing and revitalize powers work, and you should be able to clear Diana of suspicion.

Also, I might add:

Both Diana and Psychonaut can be seen using Force Cloak during the write-up. Force Cloak is a Dark Side power; this means you can only get it if you have fallen to the Dark Side.

According to Diana, this should be impossible for her, since she claimed to be unable to attack at night. It would also be unlikely for Psychonaut, considering he only attacked once during the night, using only lightsabers, on Kagemusha, and it failed.

Evidence is overwhelming. I do believe we have caught the Sith for sure, now. If I had any doubts yesterday, they have been removed from my mind.

Csargo should be able to confirm that he's been getting dark side powers too.

Diana was already on the dark side to start, and she got lynched, which pushed her further in that direction.

There are many ways to gain dark side points.

Jedi can learn it.

Yes, pevergreen is correct.

They need to have at least 2 dark side points though. Lynching Diana is what caused that.

Interesting. Well done to all still alive. Psycho does indeed seem to be a good lynch.

Imagine if Renata had used 2 Sith Force powers last night. Psycho might have gotten away with it this round.

Well Psycho is going to die now, but Diana is probably going to get hit tonight and also die, and a Jedi will get converted most likely.

That leaves Chaotix, Renata, her Sith apprentice, and 3 Jedi, two of which are recruitable.

Chaotix and the Jedi need a lucky shot to put this one in the bag.

Night Nineteen- Twilight of Chaos

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Congratulations to everyone, this was truely a group victory. Chaotix came up with the plan, everyone followed their orders and, just like that, we've got the Sith Lord that's been plagueing us from the beginning of the game, Beskar and Ironside's master. Now we have a chance of victory tonight, provided we can kill the former apprentice and he/she can't find someone to recruit. Everyone, please continue to follow the Grandmaster's orders.

That's placing a lot of trust in the serial killer, who at this point is legitimately powerful enough to best your enemies but he's probably going to take you out as well.

To the living Jedi-

By now, several of you had the twin saber/force improved vision upgrades, which specifically states that you can use it to see through cloak, whilst twin saber allows simultaneously swinging your saber around like a big manly hero to cut down the evil Sith who like to hide with Cloak.

If you had gone off-script and decided to win the game for yourselves, by guessing correctly who the bad guy was, and hit Renata, the game would practically be over.

Not only that, Chaotix has the necessary detective power to put this game in the bag for the Jedi team and doesn't use it. Why? Because he's not a Jedi, he's a Dark Jedi and he's more concerned with kill kill kill stabby stabby explodey to give two rancor droppings about investigating, because one removes a threat to him and the other gives him information and who needs that when everyone's death besides yours is the best outcome of all?

So, the Jedi team, basically everyone still alive who was still a Jedi, could have gone out that night and attempted to win the game for their team solo by doing a little think for themselves.

Yeah it's risky, and certainly could get you lynched if it doesn't work, and it could blow the game for you, I'm just saying it was an option and it could have led to Jedi victory, as bleak as the circumstances were at this point.

The way I designed this game, victory was always in the Jedi's hands. They always had control over their destiny. It might have been clouded by the dark side but they were still handed the controls and given the opportunity to point and shoot a sith dead. Once the Sith are dead Chaotix has no choice but to get down on his knees and accept an average victory because he's the only thing left that resembles a bad guy.

Ignoramus and Chaotix managed to do that (kill Sith dead), and all of these attempts were incredibly vital for their team's chances, in spite of the drawbacks of occasionally losing a comrade or an ally. Sith would have wasted their allies dead anyway, but there's one thing the Sith won't realistically do at this point which is kill Sith.

Zan Finnay and Bos Dhi Kao were also generally caught through examination of the night actions and vigilante results, which the Jedi had a heavy influence in making.

Renata still didn't have force breath and she was vulnerable to a good shot by someone with a saber and an ability to see through stealth. That's why those guys were in the game; Jedi guardians with the ability to vig kill and see through stealth. they basically suck in all other circumstances because saber defense doesn't usually help against mega-wizard hyper-death blastery and being exploded with a single thought by ridiculously overpowered magic. It also doesn't typically help you block or heal or drain anything, so it has but one purpose: Inflict stabby death on the Sith. Yeah, that might mean risking the game or falling to the Dark Side but there are worse things in this game than taking a chance.

The only one you can trust more than anyone else is yourself, even if you've been dead wrong all game long about anything and everything. That's why even if you ended up being wrong every round for 20 rounds you still have a chance to save the game through persistence. This game was designed to give you a stabby weapon and allow you to win if you swung it enough times. Or at least go out in a blaze of Jedi glory with the psshhhhhhh vwooooom vwooooom kish kish vwooooom and the killing and stabbing and the saber battling and the more saber battling and the all-powerful Force hoyvin-glavin!

I have investigated Diana with Investigation I and II at the same time the night I was killed and returned to the force. The result was the light side was not strong with this one which basically means dark side. Sadly the tier two investiation isn´t strong enough to differenciate between Sith and Dark Jedi. Nontheless I would think that this result doesn´t fit well with her defense, so lynching her can´t hurt.

Ordinarily good logic but "it can't hurt" stops being true when it does.

Still I can't blame anyone, the knowledge about her force healing alibi remained tightly in Dark Jedi control and Chaotix didn't use that knowledge to clear her. She was legitimately a suspect because she could have been recruited, yes. It made sense....

Unfortunately it made too much sense and was also not the right move. These things happen, the game can still be salvaged by any faction. Renata is exceedingly vulnerable.

It's only about 20,000 words if you take out all references to roundhouse kicks.

To be fair they also threw a lot of punches. But who wants to see Jedi fighting without the Force or Saber? It's a bunch of dorks pretending to be kickboxers at that point.

These were only necessary because the plot often required ending a battle in a non-lethal manner and Jedi fleeing all the time just didn't seem natural.



So Chaotix' plan goes off without a hitch, and Diana is thrown to the wolves and makes a good show of it before being sliced to bits and blown into oblivion.

Notice how Diana has force improved vision and the ability to attack with a saber; even here on her final night she could have personally defeated Renata herself as well, or at least exposed her.

I don't blame anyone for not doing it, just pointing out it was possible.

On to the final chance for the Jedi to put up a good fight.

Day Twenty- One minute before midnight

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The whole basis of killing people in the right order was that it was unlikely that recruitment could occur immediately following the death of the Sith Master. I do not think we need to worry about recruitment just yet.

You do, but that's because all light side Jedi have been eradicated besides Nightbringer, ironically enough, and Chaotix, who is only non-recruitable because he chose light side enlightenment. Not that the Sith ever seemed to consider recruiting him as far as I can remember. It was never really an option after Renata was recruited though.

It was possible for all the dark side Jedi to be wiped out leaving the final Apprentice utterly crippled at the end, but the light siders kept getting lynched and murdered, which kept the Sith faction in play.

I found that this reasoning was false a while ago.

Juyo 2/Double-bladed Lightsaber is only a lightsaber form and works just like any other form, except it is Dark Side. The ability that allows one to perform two different actions at night is called "Twin Sabers", though that does NOT give you two lightsabers. Either Niman 2 or Ataru 2 is needed for 2-lightsaber combat. The first form Diana used was Juyo 2, as evident in her defense as well. The second form was Makashi, and she was fighting Seon, who is the only other player with a Turquoise lightsaber.

Diana performed both attacks.

The Holocron plus being alive and using certain powers all the time gave Chaotix the best perspective on the game. He was a useful resource when he was worried about getting canned by the Jedi for being halfway evil and stuff.

The Sith did not attack Seon. Diana attacked Seon, as evident by the Turquoise lightsaber. She was Dark Jedi.

The Sith Apprentice, whoever it is, acted completely according to my instructions last night in order to blend in. He didn't need to attack, because he knew there would be at least one Jedi killed anyway. His best option for the rest of this game is to blend and hope I somehow miss him. However, my powers and process of elimination say I will kill him sooner or later.

A bit overconfident here but the underlying premise is good.

Alright, ATPG's latest reply convinces me I'm barking up the wrong tree and that Chaotix is correct that Diana did both attacks. So, no one should be cleared as a result of last night's attacks.

Going back to the day phase when Psychonaut was lynched the first time, it was a close run vote between him and Diana. Given how close that vote was, I find it unlikely that the Sith Apprentice would have voted for his own master right there. Of the living, Chaotix made the case that got Psycho lynched, and Nightbringer's vote untied it and got Psycho lynched. So, I doubt either Chaotix or Nightbringer are the Apprentice.

Of the remaining four, Seon and WEW voted for Diana, and Renata and Csargo did not vote. Of those four, Seon's posts are the most scummy in hindsight. After Chaotix made his case on Psycho, Seon was the only person who expressed active disbelief at the vote on Psycho. In that post, Seon says he thinks Diana is 100% Sith, but then the next night he roleblocks Psycho instead? That's not consistent. Looks like an attempt to use the death of the Sith Master as a way to 'clear' the Sith Apprentice.

It's also a bit odd that Seon was able to successfully roleblock the very powerful Sith Master, but failed to roleblock a far less powerful Dark Jedi Master. Seon may not even have the ability to roleblock at all, Psycho could have just refrained from killing to set up Seon as innocent.

Lynch Seon.

There's some good reasoning here, as it puts Renata back in play as a legitimate suspect.

Seon's actions are hard to explain, and like Diana, he makes for the perfect townie-attention-trap.

Truthfully, as much as I want to now, I cannot. I can only say that I tried roleblocking Diana Abnoba and drained away her Force Cloak. But as somebody pointed out, you only have my word to back me up. It all works so perfectly, you see, Chaotix. Of course Seon's guilty, he's the only one who didn't attack and wasn't shown in the writeup! And what would any Sith do in these night? Of course he would try and recruit somebody! That's what Seon was doing in the night. Because it works so perfectly, Chaotix, I am not even going to bother to defend myself. It's a perfect case, and the Sith totally deserves my death.

I knew it was coming when I realized Diana was innocent anyways.

Seon falls victim to most obvious suspect syndrome.

It's really hard to fight it once the town decides you are the obvious bad guy. Especially once they're confident after wiping out a Dark Lord of the Sith through similar obvious reasoning.

There's not much else to say, I mean what would you do here? There's no reason to suspect Renata or WEW over anyone else at this point, so why not go with what seems logical?

It's still possible for the Jedi to save the game, but now they're relying on Chaotix to not slay them in order for that to happen. Chaotix doesn't seem like the type to avoid pressing the kill button, especially after it has gotten him this far and Jedi nor Sith have really punished him for it.

For a Serial Killer, he sure does a really bad job of killing people.

Except several Jedi, several Sith, leading lynches on Jedi and Sith and even other Neutrals, and also climbing to the top of this pile of corpses to become Supreme Grandmaster and openly declaring his neutrality to the town and "you-can't-recruit-me"-ness to the Sith, basically waving a red flag at a pair of murderous bulls that says KILL ME but both teams are too busy killing each other to bother.

Besides, his victory condition doesn't even involve killing people; it involves surviving, and seeing at least one of the other factions get turned into a smoldering pile of skulls.

In that, he's done very well.

A SK doesn't have to kill anyone, he just has to be the last one standing.

See? Psycho's got it.

I have reliable information that there is currently one Sith, one Dark Jedi, one Jedi, and three Ewoks.

You do realize I am forced to do an all-Ewok ending now that will totally ruin the atmosphere?

Thanks a lot, TC.





Preview of Night Twenty:

Chaotix chooses Force Destruction on Renata, the one attack as far as I can tell that she can't block unless someone besides her uses Morichro on Chaotix. That means the Sith's best hopes go down the toilet tonight unless Chaotix ALSO dies, which is conceivable if Renata uses Morichro and one of her best attacks and WEW uses choke and scream on Chaotix. He can't survive all of that, which means he dies, Renata dies, and probably at least one townie dies to to the vigilantism that's about to happen, leaving 1 townie and 1 sith to be decided by the force ghosts, Jedi victory.

Or, the townie ends up falling neutral and then it becomes a possible joint solo victory and Sith victory for the remaining two people.

Or, Chaotix could change his mind.

Or, the Sith could wipe out everyone besides Chaotix and WEW and they could agree to share the victory.

Which makes me giggle because Chaotix can just say no and shoot them in the face.

Unless Chaotix dies, he wins here outright, I believe.


And rightly so. Sith and Jedi have had 20 rounds to get rid of him and he's been a known neutral vigilante with a lovely goal of simply getting rid of the competition and learning to use the Dark Side which has ended up killing both Jedi and Sith so both groups have had reason to knock him off this mortal coil but decided to keep him around because he's dark and brooding and goth and powerful and useful..... ah yes, just like Vader was very useful to the Emperor before he turned his back on him and then Vader quite literally "shafted" him by tossing him down a.... well you get the idea, let's not labor the joke.

Bane Anded is Darth Vader. Conflicted, sort-of-good, mostly evil, means well, but ends up destroying just about everything he ever loved just so he could become the most powerful Jedi ever and rule the galaxy as father and..... clone army I guess.

Only in this version, Vader looks like he's going to win. Good luck, galaxy!

Here, you fail to lynch WEW or Renata so that's all she wrote, really, regarding the town's chances, unless something extraordinary happens in the next 19 hours.



Edit: Nope. That's all she wrote.

Renata goes down to an unblockable attack (unblockable because she lacks the proper defense) and the Sith did not do an all-out assault on Chaotix. They are now at his mercy, and I don't figure Chaotix to be a guy who does the whole mercy thing.


And a Jedi goes down as well, leaving Chaotix, Nightbringer, and WEW. The Sith has no Force Ghost. Here, Chaotix can force a victory by making a pact with the Jedi, and then lynching WEW. But he doesn't have to settle, he could make a pact with the Sith, and score victory by double-teaming Nightbringer tonight.

But he doesn't have to do that either. If he is not lynched Day 21, there's nothing that can be done. Flawless victory.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Post 3385 of the Game Thread

Wall of the Commentary


Episode IV: Not even close to being done yet

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Link to the spreadsheet which indicates which attack is good versus which defense.

CLICK HERE.

Explanation:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(W) Means this defense (horizontal) will ALWAYS win against the specified attack (vertical). If using Judgment, the move will also succeed as a defense as well as an attack.

(L) Means this defense will ALWAYS lose against the specified attack

(-) Means this will have no effect, or I was lazy and I didn't put an L there. Basically the same thing as L.

(Rank) Means I have to check the rank of the attacker versus the rank of the defender, and take into account passive boosts to rank and possibly saber form as well. If the rank of the defender matches or exceeds the rank of the attacker, the defense works. If the rank of the attacker exceeds the rank of the defender, the defense fails.

(Absorb) Means that the user of the move (Judgment) will not only perform an attack against someone, but Judgment will also act as a defensive move. In this case, it will also succeed as a defense and also learn the dark side attack in question.

(Counter) Means that the user of the move (Judgment) will not only perform an attack against someone, but Judgment will also act as a defensive move. In this case, it will also succeed as a defense and also learn the dark side attack in question AND use it against the person who performed the move, simultaneously.

(30%) Means that the person with Art of Movement has a 30% chance of not dying due to saber, orb I, or lightning I.

(Add 1) Means that the defense or passive ability boosts your rank by 1 against sabers.

(Reflect) Means that this saber form will reflect the attack back at the attacker.

(Form) Means that this defense is a saber form, and you must consult the saber combat chart to determine effectiveness. Highest rank wins.

Saber combat chart:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Form I: Shii-Cho, also known as The Way of the Sarlacc, or The Determination Form, was the first of the seven forms of lightsaber combat.

Adds +1 Level when facing two opponents.
Adds +1 Level when facing two blades.
Adds +1 Level when facing Vaapad (Form VII)
Adds +1 Level when facing Niman (Form VI)
Minus -1 Level when facing one opponent.
Minus -1 Level when facing Makashi (Form II)

Form II: Makashi, also known as The Way of the Ysalamiri, or The Contention Form, was the second form of the seven forms of lightsaber combat.

Adds +1 Level when facing Shii-Cho (Form I)
Adds +1 Level when facing Ataru (Form IV)
Adds +1 Level when facing two blades
Minus -1 Level when facing force projectiles (lightning, orbs, etc)
Minus -1 Level when facing two opponents
Minus -1 Level when facing double-blade
Minus -1 Level when facing Niman (Form VI)

Form III: Soresu, also known as the Way of the Mynock, or The Resilience Form, was the third of the seven forms of lightsaber combat.

Adds +1 Level when facing force projectiles
Adds +1 Level when facing double-blade
Adds +1 Level when facing two blades
Adds +1 Level when facing Ataru (Form IV)
Minus -1 Level when facing Vaapad (Form VII)

Form IV: Ataru, also known as the Way of the Hawk-Bat, or The Aggression Form, was the fourth of the seven forms of lightsaber combat.
-allows Two-handed Lightsaber combat (twin blades)

Adds +1 Level when facing Makashi (Form II)
Adds +1 Level when facing Djem So (Form V)
Minus -1 Level when facing Soresu (Form III)

Form V: Shien / Djem So, also known as The Way of the Krayt Dragon, or The Perseverance Form, was the fifth of seven forms recognized as canon by the last Jedi Council for lightsaber combat

Adds +1 Level when facing force projectiles
Adds +1 Level when facing two opponents
Adds +1 Level when facing Soresu (Form III)
Adds +1 Level when facing Vaapad (Form VII)
Minus -1 Level when facing single opponents
Minus -1 Level when facing Ataru (Form IV)
Minus -1 Level when facing Niman (Form VI)

Form VI: Niman, also known as The Way of the Rancor, The Moderation Form, and the diplomat's form, was the sixth form of the seven forms of lightsaber combat.
-Allows Two-handed Lightsaber combat- Jar'Kai (twin blades)

Adds +1 Level when using two blades offensively.
Adds +1 Level when facing Makashi (Form II)
Adds +1 Level when facing Djem So (Form V)
Minus -1 Level when facing Vaapad (Form VII)
Minus -1 Level when facing Shii-Cho (Form I)

Form VII: Juyo / Vaapad, also known as The Way of the Vornskr, or The Ferocity Form, was the seventh of seven forms recognized as canon for lightsaber combat by the last Jedi Council of the Old Jedi Order.
-Allows Double-bladed lightsaber combat

Adds +1 Level when facing Force Lightning
Adds +1 Level when facing Form III (Soresu)
Minus -1 Level when facing Djem So (Form V)
Minus -1 Level when facing Twin Blades

Abilities by rank.

• Number indicates Random.org result.
• If you have tier I of an ability and land on tier II or tier III, you gain tier II.
• If you do not have tier I of an ability and land on a more advanced form, you do not gain tier I.
• If you have tier I or II of an ability and land on tier I or tier II, you gain the next tier.
• If you are on the light side of the force, the only way to improve a dark side ability is to land on it. You will not gain new ones.
• If you are on the dark side of the force, the only way to improve a light side ability is to land on it. You will not gain new ones.
• Light side Jedi will not learn Stealth unless they began with the ability.
• Jedi will not learn Cloak unless they are at -2 for alignment or lower.
• Jedi will not learn Slow unless they are at -2 for alignment or lower.
• Jedi will not learn Suppression unless they are at -2 for alignment or lower.
• Jedi will not learn Dark Side attacking powers unless they are at -3 or lower. (Dark Jedi)
• Jedi will learn 1 Dark Side power per turn if they are at -5 or lower. (Dark Jedi)
• Jedi will learn 2 Dark Side powers per turn if they are at -7 or lower. (Dark Jedi)
• Jedi will learn 5 Dark Side powers per turn if they are at -10 (Rogue Sith/Bane Anded) [Dark Side Mastery]
• Jedi will learn Dark Side powers if they have become Grandmaster and have run out of Light Side powers to learn.

• Sith Apprentice = Knight Rank, Dark Side powers
• Sith Lord = Master Rank, Dark Side powers
• Dark Lord of the Sith = Grandmaster Rank, Sith only, Dark Side powes

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Blue- Jedi Grandmaster only (Must be Jedi Grandmaster)
Teal- Light side powers (must have Light Side of 1 or above, or Jedi Holocron)
Purple- Universal powers (everyone can learn)
Dark red- Dark side powers
Red- Dark Lord of the Sith only (Must be Sith Grandmaster)

Jedi Initiate level powers
(able to be learned through training)

1 Art of Movement- basic, agility/evasion boost (30% chance of avoiding saber or projectiles)
2 --Force Jump- allows a force-assisted leap which can avoid many kinds of attacks.
3 Force Blinding- creates bright flash which can stun attacker
4 Force Sense- Allows one to sense danger approaching, counters certain force powers.
5 Force Breath- Allows survival of 1 lynch
6 Force Meld- Can be used to join another in battle.
7 Alter Damage- allows lightsaber combat victory to not be fatal
8 Force Push- knocks enemy away, which can interrupt their attack or lower their defenses.
(8)

Jedi Padawan level powers
(Some Jedi Initiates know these powers at the start, but cannot learn them if they don't have them)

9 Lightsaber (item) [Gain automatically upon being Padawan)
10 Form I
11 Form II
12 Form III
13 Saber Throw- allows push/pull of saber (+1 projectile offense)
14 Force Deflection- repels energy projectiles
15 Force Valor- Adds 1 level to lightsaber combat and wins drawn force battles.
16 Force Stun- can stun opponent, preventing certain attacks.
17 --Force Speed- improves mental and physical speed, useful in physical combat, or to escape.
18 --Force Body- Makes one immune to pain and wounds, does not usually prevent death.
19 --Battle meditation- boosts stamina and strength (lightsaber passive +1)
20 Saber Barrier- adds defense against projectiles (+1 projectile defense)
(20)

Jedi Knight level powers
(Some Jedi Padawans know these powers at the start, but cannot learn them if they don't have them)

21 Lightsaber (One vigilante action, one target)
22 --Double-blade (Two actions, same target)
23 ----Battle mind- boosts focus and morale (force passive def +1)
24 ------Battle precognition- improves all passive defenses +1
25 Telekinetic Lightsaber combat- allows levitation of sabers and objects (+1 projectile off/def)
26 Form IV
27 Form V
28 Form VI
29 ---Double-bladed Saber (Form VII-2)
30 Electric Judgment- Allows Jedi to use Force Lightning
31 Force Vision- Allows one to see through stealth (investigation)
32 Force Persuasion- Senses if someone can be turned to the Dark Side. (investigation)
33 --Force Wave (Tier II force Push)
34 Telekinesis- Repels physical attacks, throws, pushes, and pulls
35 --Force Stasis (Tier II Force Stun)
36 --Force Empathy- Allows one counter stealth attacks, counters certain force powers.
37 --Force Grip- lifts opponent in the air, which negates their ability to escape or use certain powers.
38 Force Healing- Can be used to heal lightsaber wounds
(38)

Jedi Master level powers

39 ----Twin saber (Two actions, same or two targets)
40 Form VII
41 -Twin Saber I
42 --Twin Saber II
43 --Force Light- weakens a dark-sider's connection to the force.
44 --Force Revitalize- Can be used to heal force wounds
45 --Righteous Judgment- Allows Jedi to learn Sith offensive powers during battle.
46 Drain Knowledge- removes one power from target and absorbs it
47 --Force Morichro- Acts as a roleblocking power.
48 --Force Protection- repels many kinds of force attacks
49 --Force Improved Vision- Allows one to see through stealth or cloak (investigation)
50 Force Ghost- Allows vote even in death
51 ----Force Whirlwind (Tier III Force Push)
52 ----Force Stasis Field (Tier III Force Stun)
53 ----Force Sight- Allows one to counter stealth or cloak attacks, counters certain force powers.
54 --Force Absorb- converts incoming energy into the force, strengthens force power.
(54)

Jedi Grandmaster level powers

55 Wall of light- Can be used to defend against almost any attack
56 ----Force Resuscitation- Can be used to prevent death
57 ----Final Judgment- Allows Jedi to steal Sith offensive powers during battle.
58 Force Englightenment- Defends against all dark side corruption or mind attacks. Can defend one other against the threat of the Dark Side.
59 ----Force Far Sight- Allows one to see through stealth, cloak, or Force Trance. (investigation)
60 --------Battle Mastery- improves defenses against two attackers +1
(60)

Sith Apprentice level powers

61 --Force Corrupt- Attempts to turn someone to the Dark Side.
62 Force Stealth- allows one to hide from some scans and attacks
63 --Force Cloak- allows one to hide from most scans and attacks
64 Force Suppression- Counters certain force attacks
65 --Force Breach- Counters additional force attacks.
66 Force Slow- Can counter Force Speed
67 --Force Affliction- Can counter Speed, Meditation, Battlemind, Precognition, Art of Movement
68 Force Drain
69 --Force Vortex
70 Force Choke
71 --Force Wound
72 Force Scream
73 --Force Crush
74 Force Lightning
75 --Chain Lightning
76 Force Orb
77 --Force Energy
(77)

Sith Lord level powers

78 ----Mind Control- Forces a turn to the Dark Side.
79 ----Force Trance- can be used to appear dead, and mask one's connection to the force.
80 ----Force Sever (sever force)- Removes all active force powers from target. Not always effective.
81 ----Force Plague- Can counter all battle enhancements and several passive defenses.
82 ----Force Maelstrom
83 ----Force Kill
84 ----Force Destruction
85 ----Force Storm
86 ----Force Blast
(86)

Dark Lord of the Sith level powers

87 Force Reanimation- Forces the midichlorians to restore life to a Sith. (Can use every two turns)
88 Deadly Sight
89 --Force Combustion
90 ----Force Oblivion (thought bomb)
(90)


Sith Ghost Powers:

91- Wound in the Force (Removes a Jedi Force Ghost from the game, but also removes Sith Force Ghost from the game)

EVENTS AFFECTING ALIGNMENT:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[pevergreen kills Raskolnikov in a lightsaber duel, Day One] +1 dark side.
[Belisarius II kills Zack with Righteous Judgment, Night Two] +1 dark side
[Belisarius II kills Sasaki with Righteous Judgment, Night Three] +1 dark side
[Psychonaut converts Ironside to Sith Apprentice, Night Four] Dark Side Enlightenment
[Belisarius II defeats Ignoramus, but spares him with Alter Damage, N7] +1 light side
[dcmort suvives lynch due to Force Breath, Day Seven] +1 dark side
[Joooray kills dcmort with Electric Judgment, Night Seven] +1 dark side
[Chaotix kills remake20 in battle with lightsaber, Night Eight] +1 dark side
[Joooray kills Stuck in Pi2 with Electric Judgment, Night Eight] +1 dark side
[Ignoramus suvives lynch due to Force Breath, Day Seven] +1 dark side
[Ignoramus is protected by Wall of Light (Belisarius II, Night Eight] +1 light side
[Joooray used Light on Ignoramus during their duel Day nine] +1 light side
[Light used on Ignoramus by Joooray during their duel Day nine] +1 light side
[Choxorn successfully uses Force Meld to save Death is Yonder Night nine] +2 light side
[Ignoramus is protected by Wall of Light by Belisarius II, Night Nine] +1 light side
[Belisarius II chooses Light Side Enlightenment, Night Nine] Light Side Enlightenment
[wideyedwanderer suvives lynch due to Force Breath, Day Ten] +1 dark side
[Belisarius successfully defends Ignoramus, twice, Night Ten] +2 Light side
[Chaotix attacks Joooray in battle with dark side force lightning, Night Ten] +1 dark side
[Psychonaut converts Renata to Sith Apprentice, Night Eleven] Dark Side Enlightenment
[Chaotix attacks Sasaki in battle with dark side force lightning, Night Eleven] +1 dark side
[Captain Blackadder kills Slysnake2 with Juyo II, Night Ten] +2 dark side
[Diana Abnoba survives lynch due to Force Breath, Day Twelve] +1 dark side
[Yaseikhaan attacks Chaotix with Electric Judgment, Night Twelve] +1 dark side
[Chaotix uses two dark side attacks on Greyblades, Night Twelve] +2 dark side
[Ignoramus kills Greyblades while trying to attack Joooray, Night Twelve] +1 dark side
[Tincow successfully saves Renata using meld, Night Twelve] +2 light side
[ACIN kills God Emperor with lightsaber, Night Fourteen] +1 dark side
[Diamondeye kills ByzKnight with lightsaber, Night Fourteen] +1 dark side
[Ignoramus kills Frozen with Righteous judgment, Night Fifteen] +1 dark side
[Chaotix uses Righteous judgment and Energy, Night Fifteen] +2 dark side
[Csargo kills Warman with lightsaber, Night Fifteen] +1 dark side
[Tincow successfully saves Ignoramus using meld, Night Fifteen] +2 light side
[Blackadder successfully saves Ignoramus using meld, Night Fifteen] +2 light side
[Chaotix uses Cloak, Night Sixteen] +1 Dark side
[Chaotix uses a dark power, judgment Night Seventeen] +2 Dark side Dark Side Mastery (-10)
[Nightbringer slays Double A, Night Seventeen] +1 Dark side
[Diana uses Cloak, Night Eighteen] +1 Dark side
[Chaotix chooses Light Side Enlightenment, Night Eighteen] Light Side Enlightenment

Investigation Results:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Kagemusha's alignment doesn't appear to be Sith for certain even if scanned by Investigation III if he is using Force Trance, but if combined with investigation IV, everything will be revealed. Psychonaut, however, can be caught using Investigation III alone.
If he fails to use Force Trance, then his true alignment is revealed.

Unclear- Scan failed due to Morichro.



Force Vision (Investigation I)
Scan result: is target using "active ability" or not.

• "Target is using active ability"
• "Target is not using active ability"
• "Unclear" (SCAN FAILED!)

Force Improved Vision (Investigation II)
Scan result: What is target name, and are they strong with the Light Side or not.

• "Name, The Light side is overwhelming with this one. They have attained Light Side Mastery, and can never fall to the Dark Side under any circumstances" (Mastery)
• "Name, The Light side is strong with this one." (LIGHT SIDE, STRONG)
• "Name, The Light side is present in this one." (LIGHT SIDE, WEAK)
• "Name, The Light side is present, but weak, in this one. (NEUTRAL)
• "Name, The Light side is not strong with this one." (DARK SIDE)
• "Unclear" (SCAN FAILED!)

Force Far Sight (Investigation III)
Scan result: Rank, and are they strong with the Dark Side?

• "Rank, The Dark side is not strong in this one." (LIGHT SIDE)
• "Rank, The Dark side is present, but weak, in this one." (NEUTRAL)
• "Rank, The Dark side is present in this one." (INNOCENT/DARK SIDE)
• "Rank, The Dark side is strong with this one." (NEUTRAL/DARK SIDE)
• "Rank, The Dark side is overwhelming with this one. There can be no doubt that this is a Sith!" (SITH/DARK SIDE)
• "Unclear" (SCAN FAILED!)

Force Persuasion (Investigation IV)
Scan result: Conversion-susceptible or not. Sense if the Dark Side is present, but not how strong.

• "Not susceptible to the Dark Side, and you don't sense the Dark Side already present in this one." [LIGHT SIDE]
• "Not susceptible to the Dark Side, but you're not sure if the Dark Side is present or not." [NEUTRAL]
• "Susceptible to the Dark Side, and you sense that the Dark Side is already present in this one." [DARK SIDE]
• "Not Susceptible to the Dark Side, and you sense that the Dark Side is already present in this one." [CHAOTIC, SITH]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Post 3396 of the Game Thread

THE FINAL NIGHT

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

THE FINAL NIGHT

Supreme Grandmaster Bane Anded vanished into thin air, right before Gith Ranay's eyes.

Thinking quickly, Ranay ignited both of his green lightsabers and stood in the advanced Niman stance. He concentrated hard, and used his knowledge of Improved Force Vision to locate the Grandmaster.

Gith Ranay: "It's over, Anded! The Sith have been destroyed. We've both survived this terrible atrocity. There's no need for further bloodshed."



Silence.



Gith Ranay: "You'll be forgiven by the Jedi Order for using Dark Side powers, and forgiven for all the accidental deaths of the Jedi. We couldn't have stopped the Sith without your help. You're to be commended. Come out of hiding, I just want to talk to you!"




As he looked around with improved force vision, he could not locate the cloaked Grandmaster. This was no ordinary cloak.... it was perfect. There was no force signature; it was as if Bane Anded didn't even exist. A few moments passed, and Gith Ranay sensed something faint to his right, so he swung blindly, trying to strike down the phantom. Either Bane had moved out of the way, or he had used an advanced mind trick to give a false force signature for a brief moment.


Bane Anded: "I do not believe you, for obvious reasons."



Gith Ranay: "I don't want to harm you, Bane... I am concerned that you're just going to destroy me as well. You've become obsessed with power. Don't you see how dangerous it is? You can be forgiven, but you must stop using these dark side powers. They will only twist your mind and fill your heart with distrust and fear. You must let go of the dark side, and rejoin the light."



Bane Anded: "I will not weaken myself just so I can conform to the ignorant Jedi Code. I am the Grandmaster, I am changing the rules. Dark Jedi will be permitted while I am the Grandmaster, and knowledge of the Dark Side will not be suppressed and censored. The Force has chosen me, and I have chosen a new direction. Either the Jedi Order will follow me, or they will be destroyed."


Gith Ranay: "You're a very special person, Bane. You have strength where others do not. You might be able to handle the Dark Side, at least for a while, but others cannot handle it; they will be turned to evil and they will turn against one another. You've seen it happen, Bane. All your friends are gone! Some of them by your own hand. We can't allow Jedi to fall to the Dark Side and be corrupted by it. A Jedi like yourself doesn't come along every day, you must realize that others who try to follow in your footsteps will only destroy themselves, and innocent people will be caught up in the spiral of death and destruction. If you allow the Dark Side to flow freely throughout the Jedi Order, it will consume and destroy us all. You can't do it, Bane. I know you care about us too much to allow that to happen!"



Bane Anded: "Don't you realize that there wouldn't even be a Jedi Order if I hadn't thrown off the foolish restrictions demanded of me? Don't you realize that the lives of one trillion people down on that planet owe their continued existence to me? Your reinforcements won't arrive in time to save the planet from the imminent invasion. Only I can stop the Sith. It is my destiny, and I won't be shackled by a weak and impotent Jedi Council. We're going to do things MY WAY, or I will cast you out of the Jedi Order."




Gith Ranay: "The Jedi won't comply; they know the code, and our fallen comrades did not give their lives just so that thousands more will be corrupted by darkness. You are exceptional, Bane, the other Jedi can't go where you want to lead them. They'll ask you to relinquish control of the Order and give it to me."



Bane Anded: "Others will understand what I am doing, and they will follow. Enough will follow that it won't matter if I have to expel the rest of the Jedi."




Gith Ranay: "What you're talking about, Bane, is starting a war between Jedi. That's not what you want, that's not what I want. Please, I beg of you.... forget everything that's happened, and give up control of the Jedi Council. You can go off on your own, I won't stop you, and the Jedi won't bother you. Everything will be fine."



Bane Anded: ".....I'm not going anywhere, Ranay. You cannot be the next Grandmaster, not while I draw breath. You're weak, Ranay... you couldn't stop the Sith, and you can't stop me either. I cannot allow the power that I have and the knowledge I hold to be given to someone who has three weeks of experience being a Jedi. You're not mature enough to handle this kind of power. And if you think you can remove me from power, you're going to have to do a whole lot better than swinging your little toy saber around."




Gith Ranay: "Listen to yourself, Bane! I don't want power for myself, I just want you to realize that your teachings are inconsistent with those of the Jedi Order. Instead of starting a war and trying to force your will on others, just accept that you're different, and have a different destiny. We can stop this conflict before it starts, if only you would make that small concession. Don't think of the Jedi Order as your soldiers to command, we are your colleagues. We are asking you to step down."




Bane Anded: "YOU are asking me to. This isn't a democracy. I am the most experienced and powerful and wise Jedi remaining, and you will do as I say, or I will ask you to leave."




Gith Ranay: "You're going down a path I cannot follow. I'm sorry, Bane, but I can't abandon Coruscant, and I cannot abandon my duties. You're going against the Jedi Code, and I can't do that either. I'm not leaving."



Bane Anded: "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy. If you will not obey my commands, then you are cast out of the Jedi Order. You are now a trespasser on this starship. This is your final warning. Don't make me destroy you."




Gith Ranay: "I can't do that, Bane. I see now that the Dark Side has twisted you completely. Someone has to stop you. I will do what I must."



Bane Anded: "You will try...."

Thinking quickly, Gith Ranay unleashed a massive blast of Force Whirlwind in the direction of the sound of Bane Anded's voice. Anded was blown through the giant hole in the ship left by Darth Kojiro, and disappeared down into the Main Turbolift shaft. Gith quickly followed.

Suddenly, alarms started going off, indicating that one of the main engine reactors was losing plasma containment. With no one making repairs to the ship and systems being slowly destroyed one by one, and with the engines already damaged from Darth Sigurd's attempt on Bane's life, it was only a matter of minutes before the lower decks would be flooded with plasma hot enough to melt the ship's superstructure.


Ranay needed to find Anded, and quickly. But Bane was able to project false images of himself in the Force, making the search almost impossible for Ranay. He concentrated and reached out with the Force, and doubled his strength and speed. It was necessary to hunt down all the false signatures as quickly as possible, and find the true force signature. That's where Bane would be hiding.

After several minutes, Ranay turned a corner, and was shocked to find Anded swinging his purple sabers. Quickly, Ranay defended himself, and tried to hold off the awesome power of this being. Even after meditating, and looking into the future, Ranay's vision was clouded, and could not anticipate Bane Anded's movements. A dark aura surrounded Bane, and he became barely visible. He was half-cloaked, and swinging the saber so fast that it was impossible to track with an unaided eye.

More alarms went off, and several of the blast doors engaged, sealing off several compartments. There was a loud explosion which rocked the ship, and soon, molten plasma began filling these compartments. Before too long, the blast doors began glowing red, and started to warp and expand, threatening to give way.

Ranay continued battling the Supreme Grandmaster, trying to hold back the blinding fury of the purple sabers. The blast doors failed, and the compartment began filling with deadly warp plasma. It was all Ranay could do to perform a backwards force-assisted somersault through the destroyed upper deck, just in time to avoid being killed by the searing hot plasma. Bane had vanished, and appeared on the opposite side of the damaged corridor. He unleashed Force Lightning, but Ranay dashed down the corridor too quickly to be hit by the blast. Bane performed a force jump and reached the other side, and vanished again.



The lower compartment had almost filled completely with plasma, and was now melting the deck that they were standing on. The structure of the ship groaned as the outer hull threatened to buckle, and the upper decks threatened to crush the lower decks. Ranay turned another corner, and Anded was there, and they continued the fight. Ranay was tiring, but he did his best to hold his own against the clearly superior Grandmaster.

Proximity alarms went off.



WARNING. UNIDENTIFIED STARFLEET HAS ENTERED THE CORUSCANT SYSTEM. DEFENSIVE SHIELDS ENGAGED. INCOMING TRANSMISSION FROM UNIDENTIFIED CRAFT.

Unknown: "Lord Kojiro, we await your orders to begin orbital bombardment. Please respond."



Gith Ranay: "Do you hear that, Bane? The invasion fleet has arrived. We've got to stop them!"



Bane Anded: "Computer, deploy automated drone fighters.

.....Now, get off my ship, traitor!"



Gith Ranay: "The Sith are going to destroy Coruscant! This is too important!"



Bane Anded: "I should have known you would disobey my orders. You're just as bad as the Sith!"



Gith Ranay: "Grandmaster, the Sith are evil!"



Bane Anded: "From my point of view, you're just as evil as they are."



Gith Ranay: "Then you are lost!"




Bane Anded: "YOU ARE A FOOL, AND YOU WILL DIE A FOOL'S DEATH!!!"




With that, Bane Anded unleashed a massive Force Storm, as his eyes began to glow with power.

Unknown: "Lord Kojiro, respond, or we will open fire!"


Bane Anded: "Computer, open a channel to the flagship of their fleet.... This is Kojiro. I order you to stand down, commander. Everything is under control. I have captured the Penance, and I am deploying additional units to prepare for the final assault."


Unknown: "But, my lord... drone fighters won't be able to assist in the orbital bombardment..."



Bane Anded: "YOU HAVE MY ORDERS. OBEY THEM OR DIE."


Unknown: "Who is this, really? Submit the proper identification codes and establish visual contact."


Bane Anded: "Close channel. Computer, access Zan Finnay's encrypted files, search for operational command codes for the Coruscant assault."



The charred body of Gith Ranay began to stir.




Bane Anded: "Why can't you be a good boy and DIE???"

With that, Bane Anded began screaming triumphantly, and generated a powerful sonic blast, knocking Ranay against the outer hull of the ship. He raised his hands and concentrated the dark beam, multiplying the power and focus of the beam exponentially.




Bane Anded: "THIS IS THE END FOR YOU, RANAY!!!"

Bane unleashed Force Destruction, obliterating the last of the Jedi in one final moment of hatred.

Nightbringer- Gith Ranay

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Nightbringer was a Jedi Master!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

He was Jedi!

.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Post 3397 of the Game Thread

(continued)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

FILE ACCESSED. COMMAND CODES FOUND.

COMMAND CODE: SASAKI-J-2-7-C-ALPHA-6-6-OMEGA.
KEYWORD: VENGEANCE



Bane Anded: "Computer, open a channel."


CHANNEL OPEN


Bane Anded: "Commander, this is your final warning. You will obey my orders or I will have you relieved of duty. I won't have my assault on Coruscant undermined by insubordination. The keyword is Vengeance, and I'm sending you the command codes now."


Unknown: "I will also need to establish visual contact, my lord. Forgive me, but I do not recognize your voice."



Bane Anded: "Of course, commander. I will establish visual contact now. I'm heading to the command center of the ship, we will speak there. Computer, close channel."


CHANNEL CLOSED



Bane Anded: "Computer, distance to location of last transmission"



10,000 KILOMETERS AND CLOSING




Bane Anded: "Arm all weapons systems. Prepare to fire on my command. Time until drone squadron intercepts enemy fleet?"




2 MINUTES, 12 SECONDS. WARNING, REACTOR 2 IS ABOUT TO GO CRITICAL.




Bane Anded: "Are the ejection systems still online?"



NEGATIVE. ALL SECONDARY SYSTEMS ARE OFFLINE.



Bane Anded: "Fine, I'll eject it myself."



Reaching out with the Force, Bane Anded tore the entire section that housed the second engine reactor from the rest of the ship, sending it hurtling into space. The ship experienced massive power outages, and several integrity fields went offline.



WARNING. STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY COMPROMISED ON DECKS 20-28, ENGINEERING SECTION. INTEGRITY FIELDS ON DECKS 12, 13, 14, 15...



Bane Anded: "Computer, discontinue audio warning. Reroute emergency power to decks one through five. Take life support systems and containment fields offline on decks 6 through 52, reroute that power to shields and weapons systems. Distance to enemy fleet?"



5,000 KILOMETERS AND CLOSING



Bane Anded: "Status of drone squadron?"



INTERCEPT IN 45 SECONDS



Bane Anded: "Computer, standby on the following command sequence: order all drone units to engage sub-light engines at maximum. Have each drone set an intercept course with each enemy starship. Simultaneously fire all forward weapons batteries at maximum firepower, and target the closest ship to the Penance. Execute command Penance on my orders."



WARNING- INTERCEPT COURSE IS NOT RECOMMENDED. DO YOU WISH TO DISENGAGE?



Bane Anded stepped into the turbolift that would take him to the command center of the ship.



Bane Anded: "Negative. Override all safety protocols, authorization Anded-2-3-4-1-Epsilon. Enable. "



INCOMING TRANSMISSION



Unknown: "This is your final warning, whoever you are. If I cannot establish visual contact with Lord Kojiro, I will be forced to open fire."



Bane Anded: "Patience commander. Your loyalty will soon be rewarded. I am almost at the command center, standby."



DRONE UNITS HAVE INTERCEPTED THEIR TARGETS



Bane stepped off the turbolift and entered the command deck.

Bane Anded: "Computer, establish visual contact with the enemy flagship."

Sith Fleet Commander: "Lord Kojiro? Is that you?"

Bane Anded's features were hidden by the cloak he wore. He ignited the red lightsaber he had taken from the body of Darth Abnoba.

Bane Anded: Yes, commander. It is I, Darth Kojiro. I regret to inform you that Lord Sigurd and Lord Fermanagh did not survive, but the rest of the Jedi Order has been purged from the ship. We have sustained damage. I need repair crews over here immediately. Drop your shields and prepare to send over 15 shuttles with repair teams. Then we will begin the assault."

Sith Fleet Commander: "Yes.... my Lord. At once. Drop shields and send over a repair crew. I must ask you to remove your cloak, so I can be certain it is you, my Lord."



Bane Anded: "Of course, commander. Look into the eyes of the man who conquered the Jedi, and never forget. I am Lord Bane, Supreme Commander of the Dark Jedi Empire! And now, you too will experience the full power of the Dark Side!"

Sith Fleet Commander: "Fire all weapons, and raise shields imme-"



Bane Anded: "Computer, Execute command Penance!"

Immediately, all of the drone fighters powered up their sub-light engines to maximum, and intercepted the enemy fleet at near-light speed. The small craft managed to penetrate most of the enemy defenses before they could raise their shields, and dozens of warships were blown to pieces. The few ships which managed to raise their shields in time, or had never lowered them to begin with, mostly survived the resulting chain of explosions and shockwaves. The Penance opened up all batteries, inflicting massive punishment on the Sith Invasion Fleet, decimating all star ships whose shields had been compromised.



Bane Anded: "YOU WILL NOT TAKE CORUSCANT FROM ME!! THIS IS MY WORLD!! You will surrender your fleet to me, or you will be destroyed!"



What remained of the enemy fleet returned fire, pummeling the Penance with an incredible amount of firepower. The shields immediately began to buckle.



Bane Anded: "Computer, prepare a shuttle, and set course for Coruscant on my command. Continue firing all forward batteries, and prepare to set a collision course with the nearest warship on my orders."



WARNING: ALL MAIN REACTORS ABOUT TO GO CRITICAL. STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY AT 9 PERCENT AND FALLING




As the ship rocked from the heavy fire and the massive explosions all around the ship, Bane entered the main turbolift and headed for the nearest shuttle bay.

Coruscant

Bane Anded's shuttle landed on the surface, just in time to see the Penance engage its remaining engines and crash into one of the Sith warships. The engines breached, and much of the sky lit up from the resulting explosion, which took out half of the remaining attack fleet.


Surface-to-Space defense systems had been activated, and ion cannons from the surface began firing at the orbiting ships. The bombardment of the surface had begun, and enemy bombers and fighters descended into the atmosphere.



Elsewhere on the surface, Sith Assassins had landed, to take control of the government and military installations. Several assassins advanced on the Jedi Temple.


Bane Anded reached out with the Force, and concentrated on the Sith Warships in orbit. Concentrating hard, the Supreme Grandmaster pulled the ship out of orbit and tore its engines from its hull, sending it hurtling down toward the planet.

Dropships began landing, deploying Assault Infantry and more Sith Assassins.





The Battle for Coruscant had begun. With the loss of the Penance, there was no way to turn back the Sith Invasion Force. However, the Supreme Grandmaster would not give up Coruscant so easily. After taking care of the ships in orbit, Bane would turn the tables on the Sith invaders.... and the hunters would become the hunted.



How much damage would they be able to inflict before it was over? Could the Sith become entrenched in the heart of the Republic? Would more invasion forces arrive, which even Bane Anded would be powerless to stop?

TOTAL VICTORY- BANE ANDED

Alive: (1/68)

Chaotix




Force Ghost: (8/68)

Cecil XIX- Jedi Knight Xando Caecilius (Killed Day Eleven)
Beefy187- Jedi Master Sinadd No (Killed Night Eleven)
Double A- Jedi Master Va'ard Kypaz (Killed Night Seventeen)
Khazaar- Jedi Master Kel Dih-mar (Killed Night Seventeen)
Psychonaut- Jedi Master Bos Dhi Kao Darth Sigurd, Dark Lord of the Sith (Killed Day Nineteen)
Diana Abnoba- Dark Jedi Master Sky Yi'do (Killed Night Nineteen)
Seon- Jedi Master Sio Eroseeth (Killed Day Twenty)
Renata- Jedi Master Kenth Cogma Darth Khaan, Dark Lord of the Sith (Killed Night Twenty)

Dead: (56/68)

Raskolnikov- Jedi Initiate Mas Amdu Kof (Killed Day One)
Slysnake- Jedi Initiate Kerren Cae (Killed Night One)
Stuck in Pi- Jedi Initiate Si-At Unesh (Killed Night One)
Double A- Jedi Initiate Mun Farlander (Killed Day Two)
Zack- Jedi Initiate Yogal Sec-barr (Killed Night Two)
Yaropolk- Jedi Initiate Yala Edak (Killed Day Three)
Sasaki Kojiro- Jedi Initiate Sec-sar Jor (Killed Night Three)
Skooma Addict- Jedi Initiate Ker-oth Ex (Killed Night Three)
Yaseikhaan- Jedi Initiate Kaz'an Neimoidian (Killed Night Three)
Tincow- Jedi Initiate Lo'son Galeb (Killed Day Four)
ArpeggiateTHIS- Jedi Initiate Azurine Kadu (Killed Night Four)
YLC- Jedi Initiate Drafo Tylum (Killed Day Five)
spL1tp3r50naL1ty- Jedi Initiate Ker'ral Fisid (Killed Night Five)
Sigurd- Jedi Initiate Cah Andwal (Killed Day Six)
Sprig- Jedi Initiate Qui Ul'pat (Killed Night Six)
Andres- Jedi Initiate Stre-don Rett (Killed Night Six)
Rebel Jeb- Jedi Knight Ushan Nihlek (Killed Night Six)
Beskar- Jedi Initiate Jax Revus Sith Apprentice Darth Fermanagh (Killed Night Six)
Ibn-Khaldun- Jedi Padawan Gall Rado (Killed Night Seven)
Classical_hero- Jedi Padawan Mar-ial Nih Pho (Killed Night Seven)
Johnhughthom- Jedi Padawan Taun Jan (Killed Night Seven)
dcmort93- Jedi Knight Mace Wyyrlar (Killed Night Seven)
landlubber- Jedi Knight Jenn Gon Rui (Killed Night Eight)
remake20- Jedi Padawan Rian-ban Fo (Killed Night Eight)
Stuck in Pi2- Jedi Padawan Ana Riya (Killed Night Eight)
Nictel- Jedi Padawan Nor Stry-hoth (Killed Night Nine)
Death is yonder- Jedi Padawan Datian Guus (Killed Night Nine)
Choxorn- Jedi Knight Mill Kunaay (Killed Night Nine)
Skooma Addict2- Jedi Padawan Kin Barr (Killed Night Ten)
Belisarius II- Dark Jedi Grandmaster Sol Jade (Killed Night Ten)
Ironside- Jedi Padawan Traruyn Ura Sith Apprentice Darth Aggony (Killed Night Ten)
Yaropolk2- Jedi Knight Le'ran Iss (Killed Night Eleven)
Slysnake2- Jedi Knight Shi-la Ra (Killed Night Eleven)
Greyblades- Jedi Knight Wen Kidou (Killed Night Twelve)
Autolycus- Jedi Knight Malious de Wal (Killed Day Thirteen)
Robbiecon- Jedi Knight Rivan Nul (Killed Night Thirteen)
ArpeggiateTHIS2- Jedi Knight Taung Eeda (Killed Night Thirteen)
Sasaki Kojiro2- Jedi Knight Driz Foun (Killed Night Thirteen)
God Emperor- Jedi Knight Ku-vect Belthon (Killed Night Fourteen)
ByzantineKnight- Jedi Knight Land Jamgii (Killed Night Fourteen)
Jarema- Jedi Knight Brie-ang Gis (Killed Night Fourteen)
Joooray- Dark Jedi Grandmaster Ronen Durdon (Killed Night Fourteen)
Askthepizzaguy- Jedi Grandmaster Nomi Sunrider (Killed Day Fifteen)
Frozen in Ice- Jedi Master Frid Fefar (Killed Night Fifteen)
AntiKingWarmancake- Jedi Master All'uan Kraytous (Killed Night Fifteen)
Yaseikhaan2- Jedi Master Keyeren Arva Sun (Killed Night Fifteen)
a completely inoffensive name- Jedi Master Jinn Lun-yz (Killed Day Sixteen)
Captain Blackadder- Jedi Master Bip Kenner (Killed Night Sixteen)
Tincow2- Jedi Master Talnah Corham (Killed Night Sixteen)
Ignoramus- Jedi Grandmaster An-Wan Dyas (Killed Night Sixteen)
Diamondeye- Jedi Master On-so C'ba (Killed Night Seventeen)
Csargo- Jedi Master Carnus Daye (Killed Night Twenty)
Kagemusha- Jedi Master Zan Finnay Darth Kojiro, Dark Lord of the Sith (Wound in the Force, Day Twenty-One)
pevergreen- Jedi Master Jacin Sky (Wound in the Force, Day Twenty-One)
wideyedwanderer- Jedi Master Ushi Makoth Sith Apprentice Darth Abnoba (Killed Day Twenty-One)
Nightbringer- Jedi Master Gith Ranay (Killed Night Twenty-One)

Will of the Force: (3/68)

Romanic- Jedi Initiate Pla-den Krul (WOGed Night Three)
Raskolnikov2- Jedi Knight Pal Winoff (WOGed Night Eleven)
Zack2- Jedi Knight Loris Midal (WOGed Day Twelve)

Total Victory: Chaotix- Bane Anded, Supreme Grandmaster of the Jedi Order
Draw: Kagemusha- Darth Kojiro, Dark Lord of the Sith (Rule of One)- deceased
Draw: The Jedi Order- deceased
Minor Defeat: The Sith Lords (Rule of Two)- deceased
Total Defeat: Dark Jedi- deceased

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wall of the Commentary


Episode V: The Commentary strikes back

Links to other important post-game information posts:

Alternate Endings

Sith Quicktopics

Summary of performance

Jedi Holocron One and Two

Jedi Holocron Three and Four

Jedi Holocron Five and Six