Yes lets arrest people for sharing there views that'll protect freedomOriginally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
Yes lets arrest people for sharing there views that'll protect freedom
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
Yep, it's a toss-up between free speech and the state's responsability to provide safety and security for its people. Us "euroweenies" (with scrawny necks and a body unfit for carrying ammo boxes) aren't allowed to carry firearms so we do unfortunately depend on the state for safety and security. Plus, no-one in their right mind, not least other Germans, wants to see fervent nationalistic and xenophobic Germans again.
Last edited by al Roumi; 11-05-2010 at 11:45.
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
Safety and security from a radio station?
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
Yes, absolutely. Cos that really is all it was, a radio station.
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
If it wasn't then prove it and charge them for something else.
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
Do you believe that is was wrong to get Al Capone for tax fraud?If it wasn't then prove it and charge them for something else.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
Fraud is withholding money from the government, and is already a crime.
A radio station is not itself a criminal act, nor does shutting it down make people more safe.
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
Is there any evidence of direct calls for violence?
I really doubt they would have done the same with an Islamist radio station. It seems we have one set of laws for one people, and another for people that we don't like.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
I don't actually know about precise charges in this case, beyond reading the bbc article a couple of days ago. Are there pacifistic Neo-Nazis? Peaceful protest/marches are not something I'd immediately associate with Far right and neo-nazi movements, but I could indeed be prejudiced...
As to your different rules argument, I would strongly suspect that "Islamists" inciting violence would indeed be closed down. The UK's laws on incitement to hatred and violence were reviewed and beefed up exactly so that they could deal with Abbu Hamza among others. Ironicaly, Muslims are under particularily close surveilance in the UK so to say that the state bends over backwards -as you imply, for them is is superfluous. Lastly, these arrests and this radio station were focussed in Germany not the UK, so who you mean by "we" in the "we have different rules" I don't know...
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
Well if they aren't being violent then they are being pacifistic.
As for 'we', come on, I mean western democracies in general. Although Germany does admittedly have particularly stupid and un-liberal laws regarding it's treatment of the 'far-right' as it is called.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
I never said anything about weapons or violence
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
No you didn't (this is also in response to rory), but incitement to violence is obviously about nipping things in the bud. I'm not going to sit here and defend that vs absolute freedom of speech etc but it's not always registered that the state does have a responsability to keep its citizens safe, not least from each other.
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
Nazis committed the greatest crime ever comitted against Germany, not even a single human lifetime ago. One would think they could be considered a criminal organisation.
Secondly, the role of propaganda in the events leading to the German disaster are well understood. Never again means never again - it is not a given that taking freedom of speech to its very absolutes should take preference over historical responsibilities.
Thirdly, how would you feel about Al Qaeda operating a New York radio station, urging listeners to donate money for another attack? To simultaneously - what I'll never understand - to simultaneously celebrate 9-11 and deny it happened in the first place.
There is an area where 'sharing your views' crosses over into running an organisation. 'The Twin Towers must be blown up' - that can be a general political statement. It can also be a direct order to specific members of your group. The former might be permissable (is it? should it be?), the latter is not. There is a grey area between the two.
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
Yes except they are all dead or living in Argentina. We talk about Nazis all the time on here and we aren't cenosored (even when the arguement devolves into the merits) Are you worried that because this radio stations pulpit is bigger more will be drawn to them? I have never seen you lock a thread when PJ rails on Mainsteins awesomeness or how the regime revived the fatherland. Why the double standard?
Telling people how to think is much more of an abridgement of freedom. So are you saying we should take the side of the victor in every war? The NAZIs were not the first and certainly not the last evil regime. Where do we draw the line? What can be propigated and what can't? Tell me.Secondly, the role of propaganda in the events leading to the German disaster are well understood. Never again means never again - it is not a given that taking freedom of speech to its very absolutes should take preference over historical responsibilities.
Let it happen, The radio station will most likely become bankrupt due to lack of ad revenue and if it is financed by an outside source, will most likely fall on deaf ears anyway. If our ideals can not win over hate fueled propaganda than we have lost. People must be allowed to make there on decisons on there ideals. To take away any option leads to a devolvment of our principles. Let this man speak his drivel it is our job to speak ours and beat him. It is not our right to impose victors justice and outlaw his views because then we have simply become the Nazis.Thirdly, how would you feel about Al Qaeda operating a New York radio station, urging listeners to donate money for another attack? To simultaneously - what I'll never understand - to simultaneously celebrate 9-11 and deny it happened in the first place.
Enlightinment ideals do not vaule the status quo they simply vaule the arena of ideas. To take away these mens outlet is to become no better than them. I refuse to lower myself to there muck even if it means dead bodies.
We are not talking about yelling "FIRE" in a crowded building we are talking about views.There is an area where 'sharing your views' crosses over into running an organisation. 'The Twin Towers must be blown up' - that can be a general political statement. It can also be a direct order to specific members of your group. The former might be permissable (is it? should it be?), the latter is not. There is a grey area between the two.
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
Do German chicks have hairy pits?
RIP Tosa
Re: Nazi references, Part Deux
If I can pass as a chick, then yes.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
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