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  1. #1

    Default Re: Preview: The Qarthadastim

    Nice link, it uses many of the sources I based my work on and it gives a good idea of the extension of the "punic limes".
    The best is yet to come.
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  2. #2
    Member Member Folgore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preview: The Qarthadastim

    Totally awesome preview! Made me reinstall EB1 and start a Qarthadastim campaign. (Additionally, the discussion about Hannibal in this thread got me reading Livius. It's great!)

    I have two questions though, regarding the units.

    I read, on the other forum, that these units constitute the entire factional roster for the first EB2 release. However, it strikes me, from the unit description, that the liby-phoenician hoplite units will use the mechanism presented in one of the earlier Stele, where you have no upkeep inside a city, but very high upkeep outside it, to represent that they are a citizen militia only called upon in times of emergency. Now, in EB1 I'm using these guys to form my main line. If these guys aren't supposed to come along on campaign, which unit should I use in my armies?

    And that really is my second question, in terms of EB2 units, what would a Qart Hadashtim army (from the first Punic war, I suppose) look like?

  3. #3
    That other EB guy Member Tanit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preview: The Qarthadastim

    A Qarthadastim army relied upon several methods of recruiting. Firstly they had a regular levy that all administered territories were subject to supply at all times, Carthage itself and Utica were free of this restraint. Second, any territory, even the independant ones, could be called upon to form a conscript force in times of need, this applied to every territory without exception. Troops were equipped in two forms thus, the first group were a trained force, equipped from a centralized magazine/armoury in Carthage. The equipment of the second force was dependant on the speed in which it was raised, and the people it was raised from. Carthage maintained a large enough armoury it could equip conscripts as easily as its regular levies, but some troops were not equipped from the armoury or were needed too soon to be brought through Carthage. In addition to this regular force, Carthage could hire mercenaries, although it hired fewer than most authors have made it appear, most troops were either levies or conscripts. The confusion comes because Carthage paid its levies and conscripts at the same time as its mercenaries, thus causing almost the whole army to be referred to as mercenaries.

    The core of the Punic army consisted of a hoplite line. This was made up mostly of the regular levy, or conscript, Libyan infantry. This Libyan hoplite phalanx was supplemented before about 260 regularly with citizen hoplites including both Liby-Phoenicians and Sacred Band for first release relevance. The Sacred Band always formed the right flank of the phalanx line where possible. However, this era of heavy citizen use is nearing its end after losses to Timoleon and Agathocles. The army also had a large number of skirmishers, these usually included Libyan skirmishers and could also include African slingers, Numidian skirmishers and Numidian archers, see the Numidian preview, as well as Balearics. The cavalry flanks were formed by citizen cavalry before about 260, with the nobles forming the right wing, but afterwords, with the exception of battles against invaders on African soil, the cavalry was composed of levies and mercenaries. Libyan cavalry, and sometimes Liby-Phoenician cavalry, served this purpose, but they were largely, though not entirely, later replaced by Iberian and Numidian cavalry. Elephants and chariots could be used to either support the flanks or weaken the enemy centre before the infantry engagement.

    You see, Carthage conducted itself in manner similar to ancient Persia. Subject territories were usually free to go about their business, but had to supply troops. Thus the Carthaginian army can evolve over time depending on which territories it gains. Heavy infantry will always form the centre of their line, with skirmishing troops ahead, and cavalry divisions on the flanks. A very typical army of the age. They prefer hoplites for the line, but will use any troops, even celtic and celtiberian mercenaries.



  4. #4

    Default Re: Preview: The Qarthadastim

    Great work as usual... but I can not deny I do not understand Sacred band not using totaly white shields; Where are Astartes one? What happenned with Anatin Lybeen (mispelled), where are the Elephants, the late units and elites?
    From the markets of Lilibeo to the Sacred Band in the halls of Astarte, from those halls to the Senate of Safot Softin BiKarthadast as Lilibeo representative

  5. #5
    urk! Member bobbin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preview: The Qarthadastim

    The late units will not be in the first release, so they haven't been made yet.


  6. #6
    That other EB guy Member Tanit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preview: The Qarthadastim

    White Shields - Were the 10,000 citizen troops who fought Timoleon. The Sacred Band were 2,500 and had, according to the after battle account, extremely elaborate and ornate armour and shields.

    Astartes - Read the Sacred Band and Noble Cavalry unit descriptions

    Aanatim Leebim - These are now the Lo'hamim Lybim, read the description for an explanation of the transition from Hoplites to thureophoroi style infantry

    Elephants - Already seen in the Numidian preview, or was it the North African Peoples' preview? Either way, so we did not feel it necessary to show them again with so many other exciting units and updates to feature.

    Late Units - As Bobbin said, not first release, you will see them in the future.

    Elites - African Infantry are late, pikemen are not in first release, Liby-Phoenician elites were a cross idea between two unit types and the rework of that concept will be featured in a future release, Sacred Band are still in, Sacred Band cavalry have become the noble cavalry, see the description.



  7. #7
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preview: The Qarthadastim

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanit View Post
    Aanatim Leebim - These are now the Lo'hamim Lybim, read the description for an explanation of the transition from Hoplites to thureophoroi style infantry
    I noted that they're now "thureophoroi-style", not actual imitations which are almost identical, as they were in EB1. Bit of a shame, I liked the Aanatim Leebim.
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