Oldtimer Wondering About Evolution of Game

**Cowhead418** · 11-04-2010, 21:22

Ok, so I can hardly call myself an oldtimer considering I'm only 20, but I haven't participated in a Mafia game in several years, and I'm just wondering how the game has changed. I played in games like Mafia II and Godfather I which were relatively simple. Quick glances over some of the recent games seem to reveal a level of complexity in strategy that was not required in the other mafia games (though I did participate in Capo I and II). I was feeling a bit of nostalgia, so I plan on joining the next big mafia game, but are there any specific threads/games I should read through to get myself up to speed on the evolution of the game? I see that several of the original players such as Sasaki Kojiro, Csar, and GHC are still around. What's up fellows?

**Csargo** · 11-04-2010, 21:51

Nice to see you back Cowhead

I'd have to say they've changed quite a lot from GH's games. The amount of roles has increased quite a bit as has the amount of players we used to have. As for games you should look at, I'm not really sure on that.

**TinCow** · 11-04-2010, 21:58

In general, games are extremely role-heavy these days. There have been a very large number of mafia games over the last few years (here's the most up-to-date list), and after a while people got bored of getting plain townie roles. As a result, games have gradually become far more role-heavy. This includes multiple mafia families, various third party groups, and all kinds of whacky pro-town roles. However, many games have actively eliminated the 'classic' townie, and instead give every single player at least something small to do beyond voting, or some minor power to keep them more interested in the game. That right there is where a lot of the complexity comes in.

The games that are generally considered to be benchmarks in Org Mafia gaming are Seamus' Capo games. They remain the largest games ever played here, and have levels of complexity that are mind-boggling. Here are the links to Capo I, Capo II, and Capo III. Reading those might help get an understanding for the scale of some of these things, though those are also HUGE threads and will take a very long time to move through. If you do want to read one, I recommend Capo II as the start. I think it's generally regarded as the best of the trilogy, largely because the winning mafia boss started the game as a plain townie.

**Diamondeye** · 11-04-2010, 22:01

I think TinCow did a good job of explaining, but I just wanted to throw in that there are still some of the "simple" games around. GeneralHankerchief's last game, Mafia IX, was a completely vanilla game, per example. But the general trend is for much more complexity, that's not to deny...

**Askthepizzaguy** · 11-04-2010, 22:06

GeneralHankerchief's Mafia IX which was hosted this year was two mafiosi and the rest were basic townies, no frills no fancy tricks.

We have games like that occasionally.

I have even hosted some games where most players have no special powers whatsoever, such as Murder Manor III (although that one gave everyone the ability to move and search through rooms of a manor, even though it was still a mafia game with town versus serial killer).

However, things have gotten fancy. Even my vanilla games are the-not-so-vanilla-anymore.

Though vanilla games aren't always likely to happen, they are classics and happen enough because people get tired of role-heavy games once in a while, much like they once got tired of vanilla-only games.

Personally, I like a game without a detective, but there's ways around making detectives the entire point of the game.

EDIT-
Ninja'ed by the Diamond-eyed one. Curses and drat!

**Diamondeye** · 11-04-2010, 23:27

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

EDIT-
Ninja'ed by the Diamond-eyed one. Curses and drat!

Cowhead, at the moment, I have the impression that the Gameroom is kind of slow-running (apart from ATPG's large game, and even there we are getting replacement players), but if you feel like hosting a very basic mafia game, that'd be really cool in my opinion

**pevergreen** · 11-05-2010, 13:11

Hi Cowhead, you were before my time, just

TC's post sums it up, but think of it like anything. The more you play, the more complex strategies come along to beat the other people playing. You've just missed a bit of development thats all. IMO its gone downhill quite a bit from around 2 years ago. That was the peak.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 11-05-2010, 15:21

I was feeling a bit of nostalgia, so I plan on joining the next big mafia game, but are there any specific threads/games I should read through to get myself up to speed on the evolution of the game?

Ideally you'll want to read a thread which you can digest in a single sitting or two, a shorter game which meets your criteria, such as a small game.

A small game with non-vanilla roles, which demonstrates some of the complexity, one I would recommend, would be.... hmm. Let me check.

Okay here are four in the relatively small category:

TheFlax's Mass Effect (Mini Mafia)- game setup included a neutral role, two mafiosi on the same team but who did not know each other's identity, no murder, and I believe there was some kind of couple/mason thing going on too, out of 7 players.

Worth it because the objective for the mafiosi was to figure out who their partner was, and this was actually achieved. Also, dealing with the neutral role, and voting off the townies. The game is tiny, action packed, and the final conclusion I reached was that Cultured Drizzt Fan was my partner, based on his behavior. And, I risked the entire game on it (a won game, too) because it was just him and just me and one townie remaining, and the townie was going to be lynched, and if my partner was already dead... I would have lost. But, I risked the game on my analysis and it turns out, even though he initially denied it, he was indeed my partner and we both voted the townie.

That will be an unusual circumstance that you wouldn't find in a vanilla-game. Only 185 posts to read, so that won't take much of your time. That's a good "appetizer".

Swords and D20's 2: Return of Anywhere- A role-heavy game where everyone has a character and they usually have an ability. Impossible to summarize for me right now because I lack sleep, but the bottom line is that there are a bunch of roles and it's worth a read. 430 posts, still quite manageable. The mafia got a whooping in the first game, this is the sequel, where they get their revenge? Mehbe.... ?

Askthepizzaguy Mafia: A "vanilla" Askthepizzaguy game. As vanilla as it really gets, for me anyway. 3 scumbags, one murder, 14 townies, no special roles. However, everyone gets 100 credits to spend over the course of a game. They can spend it betting on who is guilty... they act like votes. Person with the most votes (bets against them) dies. If the player is guilty, you get your credits back. If they are not, you lose them forever. If you bet all 100 credits and lose them, I shoot you in the face. Nothing personal, it's just business. 433 posts, worth a look.

Psycho Mafia: An unusual setup. Lots of townie power roles, and several detectives, and one of them is actually mafia. But, the twist is, they don't even know they are mafia. The game host murders whoever they investigate at night, on the night they investigate them, so the game is solvable. Person in question figures out they are mafia, and realizes that to win the game, he has to die. Yes, I am not sure how easy the game will be to follow, but it should expose you to.... unusual games. Was very popular, under 600 posts, still quite manageable to read. Everyone in the game is a psychopath in a mental institution, and they all have some kind of flaw, which they demonstrate in their posts. It gets quite silly to read at times, but the endgame where they sit down and really solve it, probably worth reading. Because of the unusual setup, I sprinkle clues into the game to help the players, because they are really playing against the game itself, not each other.

You won't run into many games like that so I'd recommend Swords and d20's if you only have time to read one. Though Askthepizzaguy mafia is quite fun.

**Kagemusha** · 11-05-2010, 15:24

Wellcome back Cowhead! I hope you still remember me. I have just turned green. It could be some sort of radiation causing that. ;) I think i had the kneeling red samurai avatar when you were last time active.

**Renata** · 11-05-2010, 17:23

Originally Posted by pevergreen

Hi Cowhead, you were before my time, just

TC's post sums it up, but think of it like anything. The more you play, the more complex strategies come along to beat the other people playing. You've just missed a bit of development thats all. IMO its gone downhill quite a bit from around 2 years ago. That was the peak.

Can't be, I only joined last year.

*ducks and runs*

**GeneralHankerchief** · 11-10-2010, 04:23

Hey there Cowhead, long time no see.

I wrote a companion piece to my Mafia IX commentary on the disappearing state of the simpler vanilla games, this was circa the start of the summer. Basically, I seem to be the only one to host vanilla games nowadays, but the problem is that I host a lot less frequently than I used to. It's a shame, but they're still a hoot whenever they do come up.

**Zain** · 11-12-2010, 22:39

Hello gentlemen, I have been gone for a while as well and found this thread to be of specific interest. I have a quick question for those of you that participated in my game "The Mansion". Has there been another game like it? PvE (Player vs. Environment)?

**Askthepizzaguy** · 11-12-2010, 22:42

Originally Posted by Zain

Hello gentlemen, I have been gone for a while as well and found this thread to be of specific interest. I have a quick question for those of you that participated in my game "The Mansion". Has there been another game like it? PvE (Player vs. Environment)?

Player versus Player and Environment, yes:

Murder manor III
Story and Information thread

There were items and objects you could interact with, and the playing field was divided into rooms.