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Thread: Napoleonic Mod

  1. #121

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    Command and Control, Order of Battle etc
    **********************************
    In the previous posts I discussed the infantry, cavalry, artillery and combined arms tactics. This one would be about how to model large Napoleonic armies using MTW engine.

    For starters let me recapitulate the command structure of a Napoleonic army. I will use the French army structure as an example. But this would, with minor variations apply to most of the armies of the era.

    The battalion was the basic unit of maneuver in the infantry. A battalion had between 6 and 9 companies. Each company had approximately 120 muskets. Thus at full strength (which was a rarity), a battalion could number between 720 and 1080 muskets. The average was somewhere between 600 and 800 muskets.

    I believe that the MTW Napoleonic mod (hereafter referred to as MTW-N Mod) should use a battalion as the basic unit. Thus I would not get into the sub units structure in a battalion (like the grenadier companies, fusilier companies and the light companies). So we could use a 60 man unit to abstract a 600 man battalion. So far so good.

    A regiment usually consisted of 2 battalions, sometimes 3 and very rarely 4 field battalions. It would be safe to assume that a regiment had two field battalions. Usually a regiment consisted of soldiers from the same geographical area. (Flanders regiment, Tiralleurs du Corse etc etc). A full colonel commanded a regiment. Battalions were usually commanded by lieutenant colonels, sometimes by majors.

    A brigade usually had two regiments and would be commanded by a brigadier. A division usually had two brigades, very rarely three. The French, at times would have two brigades of line infantry and a single regiment of light infantry forming its own brigade. Leaving such exotic examples aside, it would be safe to assume that a division would have two brigades. A major general would normally command a division.

    An army corps would have between 2 and three divisions and be commanded either by a lieutenant general or by a marshal. An French army corps would invariably be a combined arms force (infantry, cavalry and artillery) and indeed this combination was one of the secrets behind Napoleon’s operational flexibility. In the later stages his opponents too would try to emulate his corps system with some reasonable success. So before dissecting an army corps we have to look at the command and control structure for the cavalry and the artillery.


    The regiment was the basic unit of maneuver in the cavalry. A regiment had between 3 and 5 squadrons. Each squadron had approximately 150 sabers. Thus at full strength (which was a rarity), a regiment could number between 450 and 750 sabers. The average was somewhere between 300 and 500 sabers.

    I believe that the MTW-N Mod should use a regiment as the basic unit for cavalry. Thus I would not get into the sub units structure in a cavalry regiment (like the grenadier companies, fusilier companies and the light companies). So we could use a 50 man unit to abstract a 500 man cavalry regiment. A full colonel commanded a regiment.

    A brigade usually had two regiments and would be commanded by a brigadier. A cavalry division usually had two brigades, very rarely three. A major general would normally command a cavalry division.

    Napoleon was a firm believer in the shock action (at the right time of course) after he had witnessed the spectacular charge by a body of heavy cavalry led by Kellerman at Marengo. He took care to mass the heavy divisions into reserve corps of cavalry, with 2 to 3 divisions per corps.


    The battery was the basic unit of maneuver in the artillery. A battery, foot or horse, almost always had 4 guns and two howitzers. Each infantry division usually had an artillery complement of one battery of foot artillery and was under the division commander. This would invariably be comprised of 6 pounders. In addition to this the corps commander would have an artillery reserve of a heavy battery. This would normally have 12 pounder guns. A battery of artillery needed around 120 highly trained gunners. In a pinch, the line grenadiers and the Guards could man the batteries (and in many occasions they did). The line grenadiers and the Imperial Guardsmen were the only footsloggers that had some basic artillery training.

    A heavy division of cavalry almost always marched with an elite battery of horse guns comprised of 6 pounders. Light cavalry divisions did not have the luxury of accompanying horse artillery. The batteries would have been an encumbrance anyways for the swift marching light cavalry

    An army corps invariably had a brigade of light cavalry for scouting work. Sometimes it would have a full division of light cavalry.

    Thus we see that an army corps would have 3 divisions of infantry, 3 light batteries and 1 to 2 heavy batteries and a division of light cavalry.

    So much for the actual organization. In the next post I will discuss how we could model the army and command structure using the MTW engine.

    -Cuirassier

  2. #122
    Senior Member Senior Member Lord Krazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]So much for the actual organization. In the next post I will discuss how we could model the army and command structure using the MTW engine.
    That should be interesting

    I tought about this alot and forgot rather quickly
    to move on to things that did not require so much tought

    ----------------------------------------------------------


    Simon,
    thanks for the input
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Demon of Light,
    Welcome
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]My photoshop skills are good enough to mod graphics of other games - so they probably will be good enough for mtw as well - and I have a scanner.
    I would tend to concur. One bitmap is pretty much the
    same as another.The words photoshop and skill are not
    used in conjunction enough around here
    Even if the word skill is used in the loose term.
    I only read the manual once, can't remember what version
    neither.So you could even be over qualified.


    As for book sources I have a few too.
    The few books I have contain more uniform images
    of the period in question than units available to MTW
    so we will have to go generic to a certain extent also.
    Like all good generals we must adapt to conditions
    on the battlefield.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]So it was kind of a pain to see Wellington leave the team and starting to work for his own Nap Mod.

    What has happened? Wouldn't it be better, to merge abilities and efforts together. In my - the forum newbie's opinion - a mod like this needs both: The analytical brain of Welly with his very systematic approach to all problems and the gifted abilities of the Lords in actually modding units and graphics. What a waist of energy and effort to do two mods about the same subject.
    Well as for the first bit, you know as much as I do.

    I read the same post you did so why people think
    I should be able to decifer it in a clearer way,
    I don't know.

    Wellingtons abilities are not in doubth
    as for the gifted Lords bit
    well that can only be described by a word, I
    can't use as moderator
    Our dedication and honesty is second to none
    however.
    The Lords have been working on this for months
    and invested a lot of time and energy into it.
    We wished to make a mod for the period but also a template
    for creating similar mods for different regions
    in the late and early parts of the musket era.
    So we did expect others to create similar mods.
    Mind you I had not tought so soon

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Don't you think that there might be a way to get over it and start cooperating again?
    Well I don't know what to get over and I have not
    stopped cooperating with anyone nor do i have any intention
    of not cooperating with anyone.
    I just want to make good mod for a great game,
    no big deal like.
    If it all comes togeather and
    we make a popular vibrante mod well that's great.
    If it all falls apart in the end and all we are left with
    is a hundred animations, several campaigns,
    a host of graphics for campmap,
    battle folder and front end,plus new units
    and production files, well great.

    As far as I'm concerned this is a win win situation.
    Wellington is working on software to automate
    alot of these processes. Like all software it will
    still need data.
    Seen as I doubth the first versions will be
    voice activated the data will have to come
    by conventional means.In other words writing
    text files and drawing bitmaps.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Anyway - I would prefer to see you back in one team again but in case you won't like to do that, I offer my - limited - services to anyone of the both teams
    Well if you wish to help our team contact me at
    TheLords@thelordz.co.uk

    Wellington stated he was going to work by himself
    so the word team seems inappropriate.
    Consider your first argument
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]The analytical brain of Welly with his very systematic approach to all problems
    combine that with Wellingtons statment
    = no team.
    This way he can avoid the multilateral thinking
    that is brought about by team work and at times can be frustrating and distracting.

    At the end of the day we're just a bunch of fans
    having a laugh.

    That's not to say we don't care,
    we just don't care that much

    Like I said before in reference to myself,
    this is not a one man show.
    That applies to everybody.
    We felt that if we could get as much beta
    animations and other graphics asap and release
    them that this would be a good start.
    This is not the normal way to do things.
    First you do the dynamics then the graphics
    after.I felt the only way to get people onside
    was to show them what it could look like.
    Seen as all pervious attempts by text failed.

    Once people have the raw materials
    at their disposal they will make things.
    That way the community can join in or
    do their own thing. I would like to see other people
    doing mods for the 18th, 19th century.
    Ranger lee is working on maps for Gettysburg
    for example. Which units will be provided for.

    So I hope I made myself clear.
    (famous last words)

    You are not the first person to ask me this
    hence the long answere it is a general
    responce to all who asked so don't take it
    personaly

    Thanks
    regards,

    LK




  3. #123
    Member Member Emp. Conralius's Avatar
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    just downloaded new mod. Great start LK ARe you updating it?

    Here are 2 small problems I've encountered:
    - all Napoleonic units don't have a death animation, they all stand for a minute, and then appear on the ground
    -the infantry units seem to have no life, they just stand there

    Are you working on sharpening the sprites, they seem kinda rough? Hope I'm not being too critical, but for the most part it's a great mod and I cant put it down
    WORMS

  4. #124

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    Hi

    Remember me? Well i'm back (more or less anyway)
    I love to help you out if there's anything you need help with.

    I tried making units in 3d, rendering them in different poses, but it was a little too much work for me (I gave up during the final toutches on the model).

    Anyway if there is anything I can do to help, I'm here.
    I know more about late 17th-century warfare, than napoleonic, but I have developed a taste for some napoleon action lately.

    By the way, does someone know any good books or pages on this subject? Not too deep on the subject to begin with.

    Vivat Carolus, rex svecorum et scandalorum

  5. #125
    Senior Member Senior Member Lord Krazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Emp. Conralius @ Mar. 27 2003,18:10)]just downloaded new mod. Great start LK ARe you updating it?

    Here are 2 small problems I've encountered:
    - all Napoleonic units don't have a death animation, they all stand for a minute, and then appear on the ground
    -the infantry units seem to have no life, they just stand there

    Are you working on sharpening the sprites, they seem kinda rough? Hope I'm not being too critical, but for the most part it's a great mod and I cant put it down
    Emp. Conralius,
    Well if only consider them small problems then we share a point of view.

    The Stuff you downloaded and the next several updates
    will be very rough (thanks for understating the facts)

    They are just example of what we are trying to achieve.
    If I were to list all the known defects of said units
    it would be longer than most peoples I whould think.
    They will be sharpend up and improved.
    Seen as they could not be any more basic then they
    stand at present.Just like all things the better you
    desire it to be the longer it takes to achieve it.
    Also please bare in mind we are top class amatures
    So our idea of improvment my not be yours.
    But we will try

    Thanks for the feed back
    BTW you don't sound critical just realistic.

    regards

    LK

  6. #126
    Senior Member Senior Member Lord Krazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Axelthorpe @ Mar. 28 2003,07:44)]Hi

    Remember me? Well i'm back (more or less anyway)
    I love to help you out if there's anything you need help with.

    I tried making units in 3d, rendering them in different poses, but it was a little too much work for me (I gave up during the final toutches on the model).

    Anyway if there is anything I can do to help, I'm here.
    I know more about late 17th-century warfare, than napoleonic, but I have developed a taste for some napoleon action lately.

    By the way, does someone know any good books or pages on this subject? Not too deep on the subject to begin with.
    Hi Alex,
    My memroy is not that bad
    I remember the very promising work you were doing.
    I understand how it became too much.
    The methods we are using now may be more suited to you.
    It's not as nice but more realistic in human resources.

    Mail me at TheLords@thelordz.co.uk
    I'd be glad to hear from you.
    Thank's.

    Regards,

    LK




  7. #127
    Senior Member Senior Member Demon of Light's Avatar
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    I thank Lord Krazy and Cuirassier66 for their replies to the post I placed here but I should note that the words were not mine. I was posting that message on behalf of hal269091. Next time I'll italasize the part of the message where I say this.
    The surest way to lose the respect of one's peers is to take a stand on principle...alone.

  8. #128
    Senior Member Senior Member Lord Krazy's Avatar
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    Version 1.5
    can be downloaded here.

    It's 7.6megs

    Contains all the stuff from 1.4
    plus 13 more cavalry units.


    LK

  9. #129
    Member Member Emp. Conralius's Avatar
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    great stuff JUST GOT 1.5 its great
    WORMS

  10. #130
    Member Member Brother Derfel's Avatar
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    LK, Great Work

    I love the new cav units. I just played a massive Britian v France game.

    I limited the amount of Cav though, cos without the option of square yet they are a little powerful.

    Keep up the great work, I expect to see some cannon next
    'Odi et ammo, excrucior' - I love and I hate, it hurts.

    'Excretus est ex altitudine' - Shat upon from a great hight.


  11. #131
    Member Member komninos's Avatar
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    Hi all,

    Since Napoleonic era is the first time that artillery regiments were formed and mass artillery was used ... have you found a way to do it or you will simulate it ... an how?

  12. #132
    Guardian of the Fleet Senior Member Shahed's Avatar
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    In one word


    AMAZING

    If you remember me from M:TW days add me on Steam, do mention your org name.

    http://www.steamcommunity.com/id/__shak

  13. #133
    Member Member hal269091's Avatar
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    Question

    @LK

    Got the first some 15 portraits ready. Wellington would be a nice avatar for Welly .

    But one question. Where did you get the bmp's from you sent to me? I noticed that some of them are done after original portraits but some others I couldn't identify - is there a list with names you could send to me.

    Should I post some oft the portraits here?

    I'm as well thinking about changing the UI (Text boxes, window frames, backgrounds etc.) from the medieval to a more "Nap-like" style. Do we have a need for that or is it already done (or at least begun) by someone?

    BTW - I 've been promoted I'm senior patron now - just a few steps from galactic emperor .

    Best wishes
    Hal

  14. #134
    Senior Member Senior Member Lord Krazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]great stuff JUST GOT 1.5 its great
    The Lords thank you




    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Keep up the great work, I expect to see some cannon next
    Do you mean artillery soldiers or cannon?
    If you mean soldiers, the answere is yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Since Napoleonic era is the first time that artillery regiments were formed and mass artillery was used ... have you found a way to do it or you will simulate it ... an how
    Yes by making the cannon a unit like the rest.
    So if the unit contains ten men it cotains ten
    guns.It's still being tested for dynamics
    and practicality.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]In one word
    AMAZING
    You should like the rest of it so

  15. #135
    Senior Member Senior Member Lord Krazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (hal269091 @ Mar. 31 2003,08:25)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Got the first some 15 portraits ready. Wellington would be a nice avatar for Welly .
    Well done and yes it would.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]but some others I couldn't identify
    Good I hope no one else does neither.
    If they do we will just deny it ok
    One of them looks my grand dad

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I'm as well thinking about changing the UI (Text boxes, window frames, backgrounds etc.) from the medieval to a more "Nap-like" style.
    It's part of the plan so if you can do this great



    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Should I post some oft the portraits here?
    Ye sure

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]BTW - I 've been promoted I'm senior patron now
    You reep what you sow.

    I'll be touch very soon.

    Thanks.

    regards,

    LK

  16. #136

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    Continuing on the theme of army organization and orders of battle:

    I believe The MTW engine does not allow more than 16 units per army. I also think that you could bring in multiple armies to the battle at various times as reinforcements and each army still has the 16 units restriction. Apparently there is no limit on the number of armies being brought in as reinforcements as far as the program logic is concerned. But the HW capabilities of the PC config may place limits on this number.

    Ubermodders, correct me if I am wrong on this.

    I am going out on a limb and assuming that multiple armies on the same battlefield are possible. If such is the case, we could model each DIVISON as an army in MTW engine terms. I am also assuming that the battalion is the basic unit for infantry and the regiment is the basic unit for cavalry. For the artillery I think a battery of artillery should be represented by a single cannon (and its attendant gunner figures).

    Let’s look at a typical army corps in the French army. (The discussion could easily be transported to British, Prussian or Austrian armies of the era). As mentioned earlier, the corps would consist of (typically) 3 infantry divisions (each with accompanying artillery) , a light cavalry division and a battery of heavy guns as the corps artillery reserve. How do we model this in MTW?

    An infantry division (typically) would have two brigades of two regiments each , the regiments in turn having 2 battalions each. Thus we have (typically) 8 battalions per infantry division. These could be modeled by 8 musketeer units of 60 figures each. Each figure in the unit would represent about 10 actual soldiers. This nicely reflects the typical average infantry battalion field strengths of 500 to 600 muskets.

    In addition we should have a cannon unit that represents the divisional foot battery. I believe that using 6 separate figures for the 6 individual cannons/howitzers would clutter the battlefield too much. We are representing a 600 man battalion by a 60 figures unit. Thus we should scale down the artillery as well. A battery typically had a 120 man gunner company serving it. This company could be abstracted by a unit that has 10 figures.

    Thus an infantry division would have 8 units of musketeers (60 figures per unit) with each unit representing a battalion and one unit of artillery (10 gunner figures and a single cannon image) that would represent the divisional foot battery. That makes up 9 units per army in MTW parlance. It is well below the 16 units limit.

    Exotic cases like some divisions fielding three brigades or some regiments fielding more than two filed battalions could also be accommodated by this model.

    The army general should have the divisional battery as his own unit in MTW parlance. Close presence of the army general in MTW boosts army morale. In real life the close support of divisional guns boosted the morale of the infantry. So this jells nicely.

    The three infantry divisions could be represented as three armies, each with their battalion and foot battery abstractions and each with their divisional general unit.

    The corps cavalry division (having 4 regiments usually) and the corps artillery reserve could be represented as a separate army. Each cavalry regiment would be represented by a 60 figures of mounted men (nicely abstracting a regiment of 500 to 600 sabers). The corps artillery reserve of the heavy foot battery would again be represented by a single cannon figure and 10 gunner figures. The corps commander would have to have the corps reserve battery as his “own” unit.

    Unfortunately I don’t see any means of representing the brigade commanders. Nor do I foresee any means of giving individual names to battalions and regiments etc. The MTW army organization forces us to use generic names such as French Guard Infantry, English Elite Infantry, Prussian Landwehr Cavalry and Austrian Cuirassiers instead of specific unit names like 1 Battalion/Ist Guard Grenadiers, 2nd Battalion Black Watch, 2nd Regiment Pommeranian Landwehr Cavalry and Leib Cuirassiers etc. But I guess we will have to just to live with it.

    Heavy cavalry divisions could be modeled along similar lines. A division of heavies usually had 4 to five regiments that could each be modeled by 60 mounted man figures. The divisional horse battery that always galloped with the heavies could be modeled as a single cannon with ten MOUNTED figures representing the gunner company.

    I do not know if leaders like Napoleon, Wellington and Blucher could be modeled using the Hero figures that MTW uses ( Charlemagne, Salahuddin etc). It would be great if we could do that since the presence of legendary leaders such as the Emperor and the Duke lifted the morale of the armies to fever high pitches. Again, I would like to have some inputs from Ubermodders on this

    In the next post I would enumerate all the challenges that I have listed of using the MTW engine for a Napoleonic mod.

    -Cuirassier

  17. #137

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    Before I jump to the specific challenges let me take a French army corps that participated in the battle of Waterloo (mother of all battles IMHO&#33 and try to model it using the method outlines above. The corps in questions is the second corps of the French army commanded by General Reille. The order of battle (OOB) for that particular corps is given below:

    II Corps
    General Reille (Corps Commander)

    Corps Artillery Reserve
    12 pounder heavy artillery battery
    6-pdr foot artillery battery
    6-pdr horse artillery battery

    Corps commander and the corps reserve artillery is to be modeled as an army in MTW

    5th Infantry Division
    Division Commander : General Bachelu
    1st Brigade (Husson)
    3rd Line Regiment(2 Bns),
    61st Line Regiment (2 Bns)
    2nd Brigade (Campi)
    72nd Line Regiment (2 Bns),
    108th Line Regiment (3 Bns)
    Divisional commander, the individual battalions and the divisional artillery is to be modeled as an army in MTW. 9 units of 60 musketeers each for the 9 battalions. No divisional artillery here. Div commander should be associated with the first battalion of the first regiment in the first brigade. Brigade commanders could not be modeled.


    6th Division
    Division Commander : Prince Jerome
    1st Brigade
    1st Light (3 Bns)
    2nd Light (4 Bns)
    2nd Brigade
    1st Line (3 Bns)
    2nd Line (3 Bns)
    Divisional commander, the individual battalions and the divisional artillery is to be modeled as an army in MTW. 13 units of 60 musketeers each for the 13 battalions. No divisional artillery here. Div commander should be associated with the first battalion of the first regiment in the first brigade. Brigade commanders could not be modeled.




    9th Division
    Division Commander : General Foy
    1st Brigade (Gauthier)
    92nd Line (2 Bns),
    93rd Line (3 Bns)
    2nd Brigade (Lamin)
    100th Line (3 Bns),
    4th Light (3 Bns)

    Divisional commander, the individual battalions and the divisional artillery is to be modeled as an army in MTW. 11 units of 60 musketeers each for the 11 battalions. No divisional artillery here. Div commander should be associated with the first battalion of the first regiment in the first brigade. Brigade commanders could not be modeled.


    2nd Cav Division
    Division Commander : General Pire
    1st Brigade (Hubert)
    1st Chasseurs,
    6th Chasseurs
    2nd Brigade (Wathiez)
    5th Lancers,
    6th Lancers
    Divisional commander and the individual regiments are to be modeled as an army in MTW. 4 units of 60 mounted men each for the 4 regiments. No divisional artillery here. Div commander should be associated with the first regiment in the first brigade. Brigade commanders could not be modeled.

    -Cuirassier

  18. #138
    Senior Member Senior Member Lord Krazy's Avatar
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    Battle Sounds for testing

    Let us know what you think.

    Thanks

    LK

  19. #139

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    The new units and the sounds are absolutely terrific LK. I love my Carabiniers a Cheval and Cuirassiers.

    I have an old machine (Pentium 3, 455 MHz). MTW would not let me use any other resolution than 800 x 600. Do you have any clue as to why?

    Best Regards,
    Sivakumar

  20. #140

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    The challenges of using MTW engine for a Napoleonic Mod:
    ************************************************
    In the following I shall list some of the challenges that would be encountered by any modder to adapt the MTW engine for Napoleonic battles.
    I have (partial) solutions for some of the challenges. For others I don’t. I would be thankful to get some inputs from other modders.

    Challenge #1: How to make infantry form square when being charged by cavalry? The square formation should be nearly impervious to a cavalry charge but should be vulnerable to volley fire from deployed infantry and should be very vulnerable to artillery.


    Challenge # 2: How model light infantry being deadly in woods, forests, broken terrain and built-up areas? A unit of light infantry in skirmish formation in the terrain types mentioned above should receive extra morale and sharpshooting bonuses.


    Challenge # 3: How make infantry form attack columns? This formation should reduce the firepower by 60% but should greatly increase the morale and the melee strength of the attackers.


    Challenge # 4: How to model artillery that moved on the battlefield?


    Challenge # 5: How to model large Napoleonic era battles under the limitations of the MTW engine? A battle like Waterloo had approximately 70000 combatants per side and there were 3 sides / factions (The French, Anglo-Dutch-German and the Prussians).


    Challenge # 6: How to build the orders of battles for the Napoleonic era battles under the limitations of the MTW engine? It would be nice if we could give specific names to individual 60 man units like : 1 Battalion 13th Legere, 1st Battalion Coldstream Guards, 2 Battalion 2nd Grenadiers etc.

  21. #141
    The Lordz Modding Collective Senior Member Lord Of Storms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Cuirassier66 @ April 02 2003,15:51)]The new units and the sounds are absolutely terrific LK. I love my Carabiniers a Cheval and Cuirassiers.

    I have an old machine (Pentium 3, 455 MHz). MTW would not let me use any other resolution than 800 x 600. Do you have any clue as to why?

    Best Regards,
    Sivakumar
    Sounds like you need to update your vid card drivers mate...
    Taking life one day at a time!

  22. #142

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    [QUOTE]Challenge # 5: How to model large Napoleonic era battles under the limitations of the MTW engine? A battle like Waterloo had approximately 70000 combatants per side and there were 3 sides / factions (The French, Anglo-Dutch-German and the Prussians).


    my solution to this (as with many battles i have recreated) is to accurratly represent the units present at the battles, i.e 70000, would become 3000 and the forces in the 70000 would be given a percent value and then the same percent value would be used to create the units on the mtw battle field, thus keeping the accuracy but in smaller numbers.

    Or smaller senarios can be created , such as the siege of le hay sainte .

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  23. #143

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    Thanks Kyodai

    I was thinking along those lines myself. Refer to my earlier posts on the army organization and OOB.

    I suggested that each 60 man unit reprsent a battalion with 600 muskets. Even with this 10:1 scaling we might run into a problem.

    The French had around 70000, the Anglo-Dutch-German had around 70000 and the Prussians appeared later in the flank with another 60000 or so. With 10:1 rule that makes around 20000 figures to animate.

    Would the MTW system be able to handle that?

    -Cuirassier

  24. #144
    Senior Member Senior Member Lord Krazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Cuirassier66 @ April 03 2003,11:48)]Thanks Kyodai

    I was thinking along those lines myself. Refer to my earlier posts on the army organization and OOB.

    I suggested that each 60 man unit reprsent a battalion with 600 muskets. Even with this 10:1 scaling we might run into a problem.

    The French had around 70000, the Anglo-Dutch-German had around 70000 and the Prussians appeared later in the flank with another 60000 or so. With 10:1 rule that makes around 20000 figures to animate.

    Would the MTW system be able to handle that?

    -Cuirassier
    It is possible to reduce the size of the sprites
    and that would give you other options.
    I have yet to hear anybodies views on this.
    I have mentioned it before but no takers yet.
    Why? Is it that mad an idea?
    I have a sample, they would be in
    scale with the houses and tents
    at the size I refer to

    btw 20000 figures is not a problem
    for mtw.

    LK




  25. #145
    Member Member Stormer's Avatar
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    LK is the mod out yet

    if not when?
    Expect The Unexpected.

    Go tell the Spartans, Stranger walking by, That here, Obedient to their laws, we lie. - King Xerxes

  26. #146

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    Stormer, hei

    Glad to see your enthusiasm. But we just have this little business of unfinished units (like a paltry 30 more units), the means to make the infantry form square etc etc.

    Once we are done with the units and their behaviour, we have to do some battle maps , leader portraits and battle sounds and commands.

    Then we have to start on the campaign maps with different graphics for the buildings of the period.

    We are at the units making phase right now. So you see, we have a wee bit more to do before the mod is out.

    So keep checking.

    LK, your idea of scaling down the sprites to 60% of the current size would be worth a try I think.

    Cuirassier

  27. #147
    Member Member Stormer's Avatar
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    ok keep it up sounds good
    Expect The Unexpected.

    Go tell the Spartans, Stranger walking by, That here, Obedient to their laws, we lie. - King Xerxes

  28. #148

    Thumbs up

    Yeah, the new cavalry units, rocks
    Just seeing the French Cuirassiers charging knee-to-knee right into that thin red line is amazing.

    THANK YOU

    Vivat Carolus, rex svecorum et scandalorum

  29. #149
    Senior Member Senior Member Lord Krazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Stormer @ April 03 2003,15:01)]ok keep it up sounds good
    Be thankful Lord 66 answered the question
    before I did.

    LK

  30. #150

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    I have compiled a list of the units that need to be made. I am thinking of the 1815 Waterloo campaign to begin with. So this would give us three factions : French, Anglo-Dutch-German and Prussian.

    Here it goes :

    French Units:
    *************

    Infantry
    *******

    1* Old Guard Grenadiers
    2* Old Guard Chasseurs
    3* Middle Guard Infantry
    4* Young Guard Infantry
    5* Line Infantry – Elite. A good example would be the 57th of the Line, "The Terrible 57th"
    6* Line Infantry – Veteran. Almost all of the French line infantry could be classified as veteran.
    7* Light Infantry – Elite. A good example would be the 13th Light.
    8* Light Infantry – Veteran. Almost all of the French light infantry could be classified as veteran.

    Cavalry
    ******
    9* Grenadiers a Cheval de la Garde
    10* Empress’ Own Dragoons
    11* Chasseurs a Cheval de la Garde
    12* Lanciers de la Garde
    13* Carabiniers a Cheval
    14* Cuirassiers
    15* Line Dragoons
    16* Hussars
    17* Chasseurs a Cheval
    18* Line Lancers

    Artillery
    ******
    19* Guard 12 pounder heavy foot battery. Guard artillery batteries should have higher mobility than line guns due to the fact that the guard guns had more horses per team and were better trained.
    20* Guard 6 pounder horse battery (Volante). Guard artillery batteries should have higher mobility than line guns due to the fact that the guard guns had more horses per team and were better trained.
    21* Line 12 pounder heavy foot battery.
    22* Line 6 pounder foot battery.
    23* Line 6 pounder horse artillery battery. One way to distinguish foot and horse batteries could be to let the figures accompanying horse guns be mounted.

    So all in all 23 units to do and animate for the French. LK has already done 6,8,9,11,13,14 and 17.

    -Cuirassier

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