EB in Academia

**Brave Brave Sir Robin** · 10-22-2010, 16:04

While searching various classics/history programs across the US to see what would be an optimal place for me to continue my studies I came across this article which mentions a panel on our favorite mod, EB and its significance on how historical accuracy and the classics are represented in the modern entertainment; specifically in this case, various forms of computer/video games.

http://rutgersclassics.wordpress.com/ (the panel is mentioned at the start of the fourth paragraph under All Roads Lead to Rome Classics Conference)

I was wondering, did anyone happen to attend this panel (wish I had, I only live about 30 min from Rutgers) but also, does anyone else know of other ways in which EB or various other RTW mods/vanilla have worked their way into academic conversation? I know that quite a few of you are academics yourselves, something which I aspire to be myself one day.

**AspisPhalanx90** · 10-22-2010, 18:26

i wish i had too, i only live about 20mins from rutgers..but unfortunately it probably happened during the semester in which i live now 12 hours from rutgers lol

**Moros** · 10-22-2010, 20:13

Now I'm quite curious about what he had to say about the mod...

**Biowulf** · 10-22-2010, 21:50

Maybe the guy who talked about it, Michael Sullivan, has an account here or at TWCenter and can tell us.

**Tanit** · 10-23-2010, 01:44

As for elsewhere in Academia, I gave a lecture on historical games at another university and one of the old members of EB used the game as an instructional tool for his class.

**vartan** · 10-23-2010, 02:16

Originally Posted by Moros

Now I'm quite curious about what he had to say about the mod...

Tell me about it. It looks to me like the panel was not particularly about EB but rather about historicity vis-a-vis video games. Sounds like there would be a lot of philosophical claims (or there would at least be room for plenty).

The second panel resumed after lunch. Michael Sullivan, Rutgers University, began with “Europa Barbarorum and the Rehabilitation of Historical Accuracy”; he emphasized the popular audience for computer games which market themselves as historically accurate, and the huge appeal that the classics still has to the digital generation.

That's the synopsis on the page regarding the corresponding panel.

**Darayavaus** · 11-06-2010, 05:39

Originally Posted by Biowulf

Maybe the guy who talked about it, Michael Sullivan, has an account here or at TWCenter and can tell us.

Well, I do now. Previously I've just lurked in the tactics threads and the occasional AAR.

The talk was loosely divided into two chunks. The first was an introduction to computer gaming mods, R:tW and EB for an academic audience. Even though that took up the bulk of my time, I think Cristian Ghita and Giorgos Andrikopoulos gave a more thorough overview in their paper on R:tR: "Total War And Total Realism: A Battle for Antiquity in Computer Game History", in D. Lowe & K. Shahabudin (eds.), Classics for All, Newcastle upon Tyne, Cambridge Scholars Publishing, 2009 - the article and the whole collection are worth reading if you get a chance. After their overview, G&A make an argument for why they, as educators, feel that participating in these sorts of efforts is wonderful pedagogy. I touched upon that a bit myself, but my point was more of a rebuttal to the popular belief among Classicists that we're an embattled, shrinking minority. I also seem to recall giving a shout-out to "Quintus Sertorius' Guide to Conduct Becoming of a True Roman" during the Q&A. But I did forget to mention how infinitely more intelligible EB makes battle narratives in ancient historians.

Actually, reading through the actually presentation again, 7 pages out of 9 were "this is Rome, ok now this is EB". While that's not exactly my finest scholarship, it was very well received by the audience of faculty and grad students. I've had a few people tell me in the months since that they've mentioned EB to friends, students and colleagues. Most surprisingly, Professor Jan Verstraete, who told me about this thread (hi Jan!), had me come show off EB to his undergraduate Roman civ class at Montclair State.

I'm still not entirely sure if I'll do anything academic with this topic; in theory, an article version will get submitted to New Voices in Classical Reception Studies, in which case, if accepted, it will show up at http://www2.open.ac.uk/ClassicalStud...ays/newvoices/. But for those of you who are interested in the 1.5 pages that aren't about the game you know so well, here it is:

I certainly believe that EB is an example of how computer game mods can be educational, and if you're interested in that I refer you, yet again, to the work of Ghita and Andrikopoulos. The two are former developers of another Rome: Total War mod, Rome: Total Realism, which has similar goals to Europa Barbarorum and is similarly successful. They make several interesting and compelling points about the educational potential of computer games. But I think there's another lesson we can take from EB, one which might surprise you, but one that I hope will excite you. In the first six months after the release of EB 1.0, the mod was downloaded over 94,000 times. The most current full version, released two years and two days ago, has been downloaded 286,000 times. That number is difficult to interpret, since we don't know how many were repeat visits, or how many tried the mod and didn't like it. But what we can tell is that, despite competition from dozens of other mods, many, many people are interested in playing a game that is advertised first and foremost as being historically accurate.
There is a lot of dreariness in classics and ancient history. During the current economic crisis, departments have had their funding slashed or been cut outright. Hollywood obviously thinks that the ancient world can't stand on its own merits, and adds ogres and hand grenades to Thermopylae, and rewrites the Iliad. And the History Channel spends more time addressing fantasy than reality. So it comes as a bit of a shock and certainly as a breath of fresh air to see evidence that people, ordinary people and lots of them, are actually interested in the ancient world as it really was. And that paying rigorous attention to historical detail isn't being obnoxiously pedantic, but is actually rewarding to people who aren't doing it a living. And a quick glance at EB's online message board shows that the mods players are discussing serious historical topics outside of the game as well. There are conversations about Corinthian helmets, the design of Gallic swords, the realistic composition of armies, how infantry would throw javelins while in formation, and the ever-popular Europa Barbarorum Bibliography, which is still being updated.
The bottom line is this: people are interested in what we study and want to learn more. So while you're working on your next project, remember that you just might be creating popular culture.

Incidentally, I'm fascinated with the Seleucid monarchy, which is obscure even by our standards. While there are various things that led up to that in undergrad, I have to admit that EB was one of them. The Hellenistic period is criminally under-taught, and when it does show up on course schedules, undergrads focus on Cleopatra and grads on Callimachus/Theocritus/Apollonius. EB does Ancient Historians a tremendous service by igniting a passion for Hellenistic history in people who might otherwise never be exposed to it.

EDIT: I almost forgot to plug events. If you Northeast/Mid-Atlantic folks are interested, the Center for Ancient Studies at Penn sends out a weekly list of Ancient History events in the area (from NYC south at least to Philly, if not all the way to DC), which is probably the best way to find out about lectures, conferences and museum exhibits in the area. You can subscribe at http://www.sas.upenn.edu/ancient/about.html#contact or just check their website every now and again.

**Moros** · 11-06-2010, 13:55

Thanks for your response Michael, much appreciated.

**moonburn** · 11-07-2010, 06:48

willkommen and the forum lurkers are normally very interested in learning

one could actually writte something about the dangers of myth talisasion (wierd made up word) of history but then again i´m pretty sure someone already did about the way politicians changed german history to fit their ideals in the pre ww2 period and we all know how that ended up

in some sence historical realism is a way to fight apathy in today´s political culture and teach people that the simplest detail is enough to derail a perfect plan or change a nation into a winning spiral (like the emptying of the combat vehicule tires made by the israelis in their fights in the sinai wich made their advance faster or the shortening of the machineguns wich made the germans better equiped for urban combat)

**Foot** · 11-07-2010, 17:05

Thank you, Michael, that was certainly very interesting. I hope that your article is chosen and published.

Foot

**Teleklos Archelaou** · 11-09-2010, 03:12

Very interesting Michael. I'm getting ready to have a three-week project in my Greek class again this spring where students (who have gone through Greek history through the time of Alexander and the start of the successor states) play a campaign and keep detailed records on their (Hellenic) faction's history, then write up a history of their faction in the same format/style as other annalist historians were doing at that time. Even with that much time devoted to it, there was no way I could get through all the different extra historical and cultural elements that we threw in there (how specific the names are, so many different details in the faction specific traits, different building description variations between factions, etc.), especially with each student only playing as one faction.

I think it's particularly great that your prof at Montclair State had you show it off to a civ class of his - my own jaded personal experiences would place EB (and any other similar enterprise) somewhere between bedbugs and chlamydia in the estimation of most classics or ancient history professors.

**Tanit** · 11-09-2010, 05:37

The professors at my university were split between not caring and encouraging me. The ones who encouraged me had me do a lecture as a student guest at a seminar. I had an audience including about 10 people I had never before met. That was a lot given the number of other lectures going on at the same time. My theme was the challenges in representing history accuartely in video games.

Well done Michael on your work and I echoe the others in hoping it gets published!