Gay Parenting - Two Couples, two kids

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-children.html

So, a woman and her Civil Partner are trying to restrict access for the father.

How did they meet?

He placed an ad as a Gay man looking for Lesbians to father children with.

The result is the sorry and absurd mess. It looks to me that the mother may even be trying to use her Civil Partnership with her, ahem, partner as leverage to demonstrate the actual father isn't needed.

My opinion?

This is the logical result of homosexuals shopping for children without having an underlying relationship with each other. I'm more than happy to concede this could happen between two heterosxual couples, but it is considerably less likely for what I think are obvious reasons.

[The Stranger]

ye... it is becoming hype.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

This is the logical result of homosexuals shopping for children without having an underlying relationship with each other. I'm more than happy to concede this could happen between two heterosxual couples, but it is considerably less likely for what I think are obvious reasons.

What's your conclusion?

[Beskar]

Well, they should have used a official anonymous sperm donation instead, but there is no fundamental problem a gay couple having a child. Though adoption should be the preferred method.

The fundamental issue is from the advert, it looks like the kids where meant to be shared anyway.

[The Stranger]

why should adoption be preferred?

[Fragony]

Feel kinda stoopid for once protesting it, no problem

[Beskar]

why should adoption be preferred?

Because they need homes and love. Since Homosexual couples cannot naturally reproduce anyway...

[rory_20_uk]

But they probably have the same biological desire to have children that are genetically their own.

[HoreTore]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-children.html

So, a woman and her Civil Partner are trying to restrict access for the father.

How did they meet?

He placed an ad as a Gay man looking for Lesbians to father children with.

The result is the sorry and absurd mess. It looks to me that the mother may even be trying to use her Civil Partnership with her, ahem, partner as leverage to demonstrate the actual father isn't needed.

My opinion?

This is the logical result of homosexuals shopping for children without having an underlying relationship with each other. I'm more than happy to concede this could happen between two heterosxual couples, but it is considerably less likely for what I think are obvious reasons.

Yeah, custody battles are rare.

[Fragony]

But they probably have the same biological desire to have children that are genetically their own.

Such projectionism certainly should be in any debate imo, it simply isn't possible and wanting the world to pretend things are all normal.. it isn't possible yet we must act as if it is. B ut the child has two fathers, or two moms, and they love it. I am deeply uncomfortable with it but reality says I'm simply wrong and that they are excellent parents.

[Beskar]

But they probably have the same biological desire to have children that are genetically their own.

That's impossible though, it would only be genetically their "own" to one of them and in the case of male couples, no way to conceive.

There is always the benefit of no pregnancy too.

[rory_20_uk]

Better one than none.

Two women might be able to have their eggs fused to be a female child.

Men could have some IVF magic done with their DNA and an empty ovum.

[Fragony]

That's impossible though, it would only be genetically their "own" to one of them and in the case of male couples, no way to conceive.

There is always the benefit of no pregnancy too.

But that is the point really, it's simply not possible. Gays can never be more than being tolerated, how could they be anything more.

[The Stranger]

adoption is overrated.

[Beskar]

adoption is underrated.

Corrected.

[Fragony]

Corrected.

Sure, but can't have what you can' have just because you really want it, and I think wanting what you can't have is unhealthy. Gays can't be equal, not my words mother nature says so.

[Strike For The South]

Sure, but can't have what you can' have just because you really want it, and I think wanting what you can't have is unhealthy. Gays can't be equal, not my words mother says so.

What?

So what about sterile hetero couples or does Deus vult apply to them as well?

[Fragony]

What?

So what about sterile hetero couples or does Deus vult apply to them as well?

I am not against it, but Rory raises a fair point when it comes to genetics, and in the end it remains pretending. Or rather asking others to play in their theatre when demanding respect. Genes won't pass, that's the uncomfortable truth. Lie to yourself no problem with me, but it just isnlt the same thing. I wish them all the best and they are probably best parents ever.

[The Stranger]

Corrected.

not at all. specially cross continent/culture adoption fails epically.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well, they should have used a official anonymous sperm donation instead, but there is no fundamental problem a gay couple having a child. Though adoption should be the preferred method.

The fundamental issue is from the advert, it looks like the kids where meant to be shared anyway.

Sperm donation is no longer anonymous, at 18 the child can hunt you down - at which point you would probably find yourself obligated (unless you just lack compassion).

But they probably have the same biological desire to have children that are genetically their own.

There's the rub though, without extremely complex and unnatural genetic shennanigins it isn't possible, so what they actually have is the desire to obtain children, but not the desire to go through the process of getting them, which should include a relationship with the other parent. After all, you're committing the rest of your life to caring for something that is 50% someone else.

I'd blummin' well want to know that other 50% inside and out, wouldn't you?

[al Roumi]

There's the rub though, without extremely complex and unnatural genetic shennanigins it isn't possible, so what they actually have is the desire to obtain children, but not the desire to go through the process of getting them, which should include a relationship with the other parent. After all, you're committing the rest of your life to caring for something that is 50% someone else.

I'd blummin' well want to know that other 50% inside and out, wouldn't you?

I'm not sure you can say that for all gay's who want children. Most who seek adoption will (should be required to) be in stable, long term relationships.

As with hetero's seeking adoption as an individual (not a couple), I'd be reluctant to allow gays to do the same -for the same reasons as heteros.

[The Stranger]

Sperm donation is no longer anonymous, at 18 the child can hunt you down - at which point you would probably find yourself obligated (unless you just lack compassion).



There's the rub though, without extremely complex and unnatural genetic shennanigins it isn't possible, so what they actually have is the desire to obtain children, but not the desire to go through the process of getting them, which should include a relationship with the other parent. After all, you're committing the rest of your life to caring for something that is 50% someone else.

I'd blummin' well want to know that other 50% inside and out, wouldn't you?

why??????????????????

[a completely inoffensive name]

Obviously from the way these specific homosexuals have been acting in this case, I think it is safe to say that homosexuals are inferior at parenting, yet another reason why it is ridiculous for them for be ale to marry. My case is backed up by obvious facts which support my idea that I do not have to explain.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Well the logic I often hear for homosexual adoption isn't exactly great either, tends to go:

1. Some people say Heterosexual couples are best for children
2. Heterosexual couples often raise messed up kids
3. Homosexual adoption won't be any worse

A lot of variables affect how well a kid turns out, the point is that regardless of the other parenting attributes of homosexuals, the fact that they are homosexual is going to be bad in itself.

In the same way that it's best not to just be raised by a single mum, or by a grandparent, it's best not to have two dads.

[Fragony]

That's what I thought as well, but it just isn't true. Kids don't understand the difference having two dads is just great fun.

[ajaxfetish]

There's the rub though, without extremely complex and unnatural genetic shennanigins it isn't possible, so what they actually have is the desire to obtain children, but not the desire to go through the process of getting them, which should include a relationship with the other parent. After all, you're committing the rest of your life to caring for something that is 50% someone else.

I'd blummin' well want to know that other 50% inside and out, wouldn't you?

Am I misunderstanding you here, or are you implying that the relationships between adoptive parents and their children are even worse than cases such as these? In those cases, you'd be caring for something that is 100% someone else. Does that mean less if you don't know those other two individuals inside and out?

Anyway, if you're going to cite anecdotal evidence against lesbians raising children, I'll cite the case of my aunt and her partner of the last couple decades and the two beautiful children they have (elementary and jr. high age). Both kids are 50% my aunt and 50% a friend who served as a donor. No custody battles or antagonism, and my aunt's partner is just as much the kids' parent as my aunt is, genetic investment or no.

Ajax

[Fragony]

It's perfectly possible that gays do it for themselve even if they don't realise it, to feel normal, not that far a stretch.

[Rhyfelwyr]

That's what I thought as well, but it just isn't true. Kids don't understand the difference having two dads is just great fun.

I don't know... if I think I was a child, and imagine having two men standing there for parents, it just seems too wrong.

I think most children are the same by nature. Anecdotal I know but who are we to subject children to our loftier political ideals, if they don't like it they don't like it.

Not saying homosexuals can't compensate by being otherwise perfect parents, but the perfect heterosexual parents are always going to be better than the otherwise perfect homosexual parents. Kids need the right rolemodels. Unless having homosexual parents really does turn them gay, they will be in a one man/woman relationship in later life.

Gender roles, social realities etc... sucks but that's how the world works.

[Fragony]

My intuition agrees with you it feels wrong to me, but we are the ones that should grow up and get over it. We are the only ones causing a problem as long as we don't, gender roles matter only in the eyes of the beholder.

[tibilicus]

Good lord, DD has truly marked his presence in this thread.