Politics and Football

**Rhyfelwyr** · 11-10-2010, 02:33

Originally Posted by Beskar

There is a difference between "Keep Racism out of Football" and "Put Racism in Football", if you don't understand the difference, then there is a flaw in your logic.

They are both political issues. They are not just campaigning to keep racism out of the game itself, they are actively attempting to influence their audience to adopt non-racist views. How dare they use the football field as a platform for their politics!

**gaelic cowboy** · 11-10-2010, 02:55

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

They are both political issues. They are not just campaigning to keep racism out of the game itself, they are actively attempting to influence their audience to adopt non-racist views. How dare they use the football field as a platform for their politics!

This raises an interesting point though actively trying to inculcate some kind of middle class ethic in these people will fail until they actually ye know become middle class an all.

Plus when it suits them in soccer they are quite happy to ignore actual war and the like such as in Milosovic and Kosovo back during the qualifiers some years back.

**InsaneApache** · 11-10-2010, 14:32

Do they dislike the poppy for their idea of Imperialism? If so they are very misguided.

**gaelic cowboy** · 11-10-2010, 16:10

Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Why on earth not?

The heart of this goes back to the internal disagreement in Ireland itself over how independence was to be achieved here by either moderate or by violent means basically.

The Home Rule bill of 1914 was to be delayed for no longer than the duration of the WW1 and naturally everyone at the time thought the war will be over by Christmas so it will mean Home Rule some time in 1915-16. The Irish volunteers decided to march to the front to support Britain to as it were achieve freedom in Ireland and were led by John Redmond of the Irish Parlimentary Party, it was a disaster for moderates as the war dragged on and helped Sinn Fein to win the the 1918 election in Ireland on an anti-conscription ticket.

Afterwards when the War of Independence proper was started the Tans pretty much burned up the middle ground with every peasants house they destroyed. Ireland is a small closely knit country and my own Granduncle marched off with Redmond and he never came back from the front, afterwards my Grandfather then joined the IRA and fought the against British forces here according to him it was the British who betrayed us and not the other way round.

Later with the Civil War the bitterness was even more intense as brother fought brother, the casualty figures are unknown for this conflict but generally people believe/believed that more people died in one year of the civil war that thirty years of shooting in the North.

It's pretty easy to see now that taking a more large scale view of the whole thing the Poppy was going to be discarded as it remembers a war which ostensibly caused a massive bitter division in my country.

**Devastatin Dave** · 11-10-2010, 16:18

Greatest football play ever...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UIdI8khMkw

**gaelic cowboy** · 11-10-2010, 16:19

brilliant it's just like Nani against Spurs no one expected it so they stood looking confused for a second and then it was too late.

**johnhughthom** · 11-10-2010, 17:01

Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

brilliant it's just like Nani against Spurs no one expected it so they stood looking confused for a second and then it was too late.

Not really, one was a well thought out trick, Nani just took advantage of idiotic refereeing.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 11-10-2010, 14:44

Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Do they dislike the poppy for their idea of Imperialism? If so they are very misguided.

Yes, pretty much, they are quite into Marxism. In a way I respect their views, if you think about it an Irish person is probably not going to want to wear the poppy.

Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

This raises an interesting point though actively trying to inculcate some kind of middle class ethic in these people will fail until they actually ye know become middle class an all.

You hit the nail on the head with the class dynamic. I remember reading on another forum where a Northern Irish Catholic explained their poppy situation, he was very critical of the middle-class Alliance-supporting Catholics who wear it to be pc.

The thing is here in Scotland the class dynamic is heavily tied to national identity. Scottish nationalism is very much for the middle-classes, it makes them feel warm and fuzzy when they think they have a quaint little culture and get to read nice poetry they don't understand, plus there is a bit of snobby-style xenophobia towards the English. Instead of going the "we are all the same route", I prefer the more open but in a way more respectful xenophobia of the Rangers/Celtic fans - just accept we are different, there are good reasons why we are different.

Reminds me of what one Orangeman said regarding a republican parade that was held in Glasgow, which caused some controversy since people walked around waving flags associated with the IRA and wearing paramilitary uniforms. He didn't get all righteous and try to restrict their freedoms, he just said "They have our parades and we have ours".

How much more respectful can you be?

**al Roumi** · 11-10-2010, 15:27

To say "lets keep politics out of football" is silly, it's not as political as it used to be maybe, but it has been a force in politics and vice versa.

That said, I'm with Beskar in questioning whether the anti-racism campaign is political though. It's a social campaign -more like "quit smoking" than "vote for x" IMO. The campaign is not saying "don't vote BNP" after all.