Did Zeus never teach Athena to have some tolerance with Muslims?

[Rhyfelwyr]

*sigh*

Allright, let's say you have a male and female that are exactly the same when it comes to both strength AND mental status.

Is there NOW any difference between them?

No.

[HoreTore]

No.

So then you agree with me: it's not bad to hit women, it's bad to hit those less capable of fighting than you are yourself.

[Kagemusha]

Im with Strike and Rory on this one. There is nothing glorious about violence.

[Vladimir]

Im with Strike and Rory on this one. There is nothing glorious about violence.

Well that's just wrong. Violence IS glory. Ever hear any tales of glorious manners and etiquette? We may be dealing with a translation issue here but words like glory, valor, and honor incorporate violence into their code. The difference is in how it's used.

Relating back to Islam: Violence is, inherent in the system; however, the system matters less than the people in it as proven in this incident.

[Kagemusha]

Well that's just wrong. Violence IS glory. Ever hear any tales of glorious manners and etiquette? We may be dealing with a translation issue here but words like glory, valor, and honor incorporate violence into their code. The difference is in how it's used.

Relating back to Islam: Violence is, inherent in the system; however, the system matters less than the people in it as proven in this incident.

Im talking about the real thing not about any stories. But it could be that in my language the word has different meaning then in yours.

Be it may that people love to hear stories about how a gentleman defended vigorously a helpless maiden in stress, from bunch of thugs. Or a soldier made a glorious final stand sacrificing himself and saving his whole platoon in the process. For some reason you hardly hear tales about when the gentleman got himself killed in a similar situation or soldier calling for her mother before drowning on his own blood filling his lungs. while dragging his legless torso in panic, just to get away from a battle.

[Vladimir]

Im talking about the real thing not about any stories. But it could be that in my language the word has different meaning then in yours.

Be it may that people love to hear stories about how a gentleman defended vigorously a helpless maiden in stress, from bunch of thugs. Or a soldier made a glorious final stand sacrificing himself and saving his whole platoon in the process. For some reason you hardly hear tales about when the gentleman got himself killed in a similar situation on soldier calling for her mother before drowning on his own blood filling his lungs. while dragging his legless torso in panic, just to get away from a battle.

Your post reminded me of a Top Gear episode where they explained sisu. I suppose that is a non-violent glory in that no one is seriously hurt but the cars sure took a beating.

[rory_20_uk]

Im talking about the real thing not about any stories. But it could be that in my language the word has different meaning then in yours.

Be it may that people love to hear stories about how a gentleman defended vigorously a helpless maiden in stress, from bunch of thugs. Or a soldier made a glorious final stand sacrificing himself and saving his whole platoon in the process. For some reason you hardly hear tales about when the gentleman got himself killed in a similar situation on soldier calling for her mother before drowning on his own blood filling his lungs. while dragging his legless torso in panic, just to get away from a battle.

I've met the "hero" who tried to stand up to a mugger and got stabbed as I assisted in repairing his intestines.
I treated the "hero" who tried to placate two having an argument and required stitches when a mate of theirs smacked him round the head with a piece of wood.

Those glorifying heroic events were often never anywhere near them. It's often been said that the victors never have glorious victories as they are the ones who have had a good look at the battlefield afterwards.

Similarly Loyalty was a tremedous premium in Medieval Japan as almost no one was.

[Kagemusha]

Your post reminded me of a Top Gear episode where they explained sisu. I suppose that is a non-violent glory in that no one is seriously hurt but the cars sure took a beating.

Yes.Sisu is bit hard concept to translate. I guess it is some odd mixture of being stubborn against odds and not minding any kind of set backs, still retaining your integrity, while the result could still be a failure. Hard thing to translate.

I've met the "hero" who tried to stand up to a mugger and got stabbed as I assisted in repairing his intestines.
I treated the "hero" who tried to placate two having an argument and required stitches when a mate of theirs smacked him round the head with a piece of wood.

Those glorifying heroic events were often never anywhere near them. It's often been said that the victors never have glorious victories as they are the ones who have had a good look at the battlefield afterwards.

Similarly Loyalty was a tremedous premium in Medieval Japan as almost no one was.

I agree completely.

[Fragony]

So then you agree with me: it's not bad to hit women, it's bad to hit those less capable of fighting than you are yourself.

And the avarage male just happens to be stronger. Repulsion against hitting women is repulsion against treating them like something you are allowed to abuse instead of treating them like an equal. I'd say women are superior really, fine with being their slave really they are much smarter, frees the mind for more important things such as bashing skulls.

@K, what's wrong with, it's much more weak to avoid it's simplicity. When you comfort a friend he knows enough when you squeeze his shoulder, you understand, that's enough. Same with busting his nose when he pisses you of. Advanced communication made simple, or should we go in therapy instead

[Rhyfelwyr]

I don't understand why physical violence is seen as so bad anyway.

If you think about it, if we see violence or harm against a person as being either physical or mental, then surely mental harm is more direct. Physical pain is only bad because it translated into mental anguish.

For example, my Gran, being a bit old fashioned, used to hit me with a strap or a spoon at times, but I always found that less bad than having a telling off that lasts half and hour, or having a football or whatever taken off me.

[HoreTore]

Yes I do. Being a woman and being physically weaker tend to be pretty much synonymous. So you should never find yourself in a situation where you have to hit a woman.

In short; everyone now agrees with HoreTore's opening statement.

I don't understand why physical violence is seen as so bad anyway.

If you think about it, if we see violence or harm against a person as being either physical or mental, then surely mental harm is more direct. Physical pain is only bad because it translated into mental anguish.

For example, my Gran, being a bit old fashioned, used to hit me with a strap or a spoon at times, but I always found that less bad than having a telling off that lasts half and hour, or having a football or whatever taken off me.

Because any abusive behaviour is seen as negative. Yelling or whatever is just as unnecessary. Want to end negative behaviour? Simply reward positive behaviour.

[Slyspy]

In short; everyone now agrees with HoreTore's opening statement.



Because any abusive behaviour is seen as negative. Yelling or whatever is just as unnecessary. Want to end negative behaviour? Simply reward positive behaviour.

Can I have my reward for not murdering anyone?

[Kagemusha]

I don't understand why physical violence is seen as so bad anyway.

If you think about it, if we see violence or harm against a person as being either physical or mental, then surely mental harm is more direct. Physical pain is only bad because it translated into mental anguish.

For example, my Gran, being a bit old fashioned, used to hit me with a strap or a spoon at times, but I always found that less bad than having a telling off that lasts half and hour, or having a football or whatever taken off me.

Some may think that as violence.Had your granny broken your nose, finger or a limb because of your behaviour, you might think otherwise.

[Rhyfelwyr]

In short; everyone now agrees with HoreTore's opening statement.

Never set out to disagree, we were saying the same thing in different words, that was my point.

Some may think that as violence.Had your granny broken your nose, finger or a limb because of your behaviour, you might think otherwise.

Eh because that would be child abuse. Why pick an extreme example? I could do the same for mental abuse.

My point is why is physically harming someone seen as worse than inflicting suffering/punishment in non-phsyical ways?

[Rhyfelwyr]

So then you agree with me: it's not bad to hit women, it's bad to hit those less capable of fighting than you are yourself.

Yes I do. Being a woman and being physically weaker tend to be pretty much synonymous. So you should never find yourself in a situation where you have to hit a woman.