This Week's Evil Islam Thread

[Louis VI the Fat]

Lessons of Hate at Islamic Schools in Britain

LONDON — A British network of more than 40 part-time Islamic schools and clubs with 5,000 students has been teaching from a Saudi Arabian government curriculum that contains anti-Semitic and homophobic views, including a textbook that asks children to list the “reprehensible” qualities of Jews, according to a BBC documentary broadcast on Monday.

The 30-minute “Panorama” program quoted the Saudi government-supplied textbook as saying that Jews “looked like monkeys and pigs,” and that Zionists set out to achieve “world domination.” The program quoted a separate part of the curriculum — for children as young as 6 — saying that someone who is not a believer in Islam at death would be condemned to “hellfire.”

The program said the textbooks had been obtained by an “undercover” Saudi Arabian researcher who asked for them during a visit to one of the Saudi-backed schools and clubs, which meet in the evenings and on weekends in a network that is linked to the cultural bureau of the Saudi Embassy in London.

On Monday, the embassy did not respond to requests for comment, but Saudi officials quoted by the BBC disavowed direct responsibility for the schools and clubs and described the teachings cited in the program as having been “taken out of their historical context.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/23/wo...%2Findex.jsonp

Dear oh dear..

Europe's next generation learns important skills to compete in an increasingly competitive world, such as the exact place where to amputate limbs:

My favourite bit is the grasp these schools have of indoctrination techniques, such as presenting the variants of the same viewpoint as different viewpoints. 'Stoning or the cliff'? - that'll teach those students critical thinking!

One of the textbooks, according to the BBC program, prescribed execution as the penalty for gay sex, and outlined differing viewpoints as to whether death should be by stoning, immolation by fire or throwing offenders off a cliff.

[Andres]

The positive part of the story:

someone who is not a believer in Islam at death would be condemned to “hellfire.”

I can live in sin for my entire life and still have 72 virgins in the afterlife

All I have to do is be converted to Islam on my dead bed. To be on the safe side, while I'll be at it, I'd better confess all my sins to a Catholic priest as well.

[Fragony]

You just got to respect that, gutmensch knows it simply isn't true

[rory_20_uk]

It should be policy that all adults involved with this and are foreign nationals are immediately fined and then deported. Those with a dual passport loose their UK passport. All are banned for life.

There are many places in the globe this poison is allowed. The UK should not be one of them.

Of course what will happen is basically... nothing. A few will be closed down and re-open elsewhere. The Saudis will shuffle their feet a bit and mumble some drivel about how it wasn't their fault and not even their books... OK, they were their books but they didn't know... OK, they did know but it was a mistake... OK, it was intentional but enough time has dragged by for no one to care any more. Perhaps some consular staff will be shuffled around.

[Louis VI the Fat]

All I have to do is be converted to Islam on my dead bed. To be on the safe side, while I'll be at it, I'd better confess all my sins to a Catholic priest as well.

Good points.

Better to err on the safe side and turn religious. I've got it all worked out: I'll convert to Islam right before I die, to get my 72 virgins. But first, I'm going to repent for my sins right now, make confession, and become a Catholic priest. So I can have my 72 virgins in this life too.



All kidding aside, with schools like this it's no wonder Europe keeps breeding homegrown terrorists. As coincidence would have it, right now as we speak, a massive coordinated police operation is happening in Belgium:

A number of arrests have been made in connection with a suspected plot to carry out a terrorist attack in Belgium, regional media report.
Police in the Belgian city of Antwerp detained several people "planning an attack", Belgium's HLN website says.

Ten people were picked up Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany, according to French news agency AFP.

.

[gaelic cowboy]

Good points.

Better to err on the safe side and turn religious. I've got it all worked out: I'll convert to Islam right before I die, to get my 72 virgins. But first, I'm going to repent for my sins right now, make confession, and become a Catholic priest. So I can have my 72 virgins in this life too.



All kidding aside, with schools like this it's no wonder Europe keeps breeding homegrown terrorists. As coincidence would have it, right now as we speak, a massive coordinated police operation is happening in Belgium:
.

But I dont like raisins can I change it to potatoes instead.

Scholars have long pointed out that these images are clearly drawn pictures and must have been inspired by the art of painting. Muhammad, or whoever is responsible for the descriptions, may well have seen Christian miniatures or mosaics representing the gardens of paradise and has interpreted the figures of angels rather literally as those of young men and young women. A further textual influence on the imagery found in the Koran is the work of Ephrem the Syrian [306-373 CE], Hymns on Paradise, written in Syriac, an Aramaic dialect and the language of Eastern Christianity, and a Semitic language closely related to Hebrew and Arabic.

Luxenberg tries to show that many obscurities of the Koran disappear if we read certain words as being Syriac and not Arabic. We cannot go into the technical details of his methodology but it allows Luxenberg, to the probable horror of all Muslim males dreaming of sexual bliss in the Muslim hereafter, to conjure away the wide-eyed houris promised to the faithful in suras XLIV.54; LII.20, LV.72, and LVI.22. Luxenberg 's new analysis, leaning on the Hymns of Ephrem the Syrian, yields "white raisins" of "crystal clarity" rather than doe-eyed, and ever willing virgins - the houris. Luxenberg claims that the context makes it clear that it is food and drink that is being offerred, and not unsullied maidens or houris.

[al Roumi]

You just got to respect that, gutmensch knows it simply isn't true

This is clearly unacceptable. [Edit: to be clear, I don't mean your post, rather the subject of the thread!]

I admit my first thought was "lets keep this in perpective", but 5000 students is a lot of people to poison with this rot. My google fu has failed me in finding (recent) statistics on independant faith schools in Britain. It would be interesting to know how big a chunk of the independant Islamic sector this represents. I also know bugger-all about the governance of independant schools, or what powers there are to limit this kind of hideous curriculum.

Re the Saudis, I can quite imagine that this does have nothing to do with the Saudi government, it's most likely to be some sort of charity. Plus, the Saudis govt is really only bothered about what happens at home and not so much about the country's non-petroleum based exports.

[rory_20_uk]

OFSTEAD has no clout over out of school activities, so they're pretty much free to do what they want. It is hardly going to get onto the Police's radar as it is "merely" indoctrination rather than anything else. In all seriousness, it falls best under MI5's purview as it is a long term, strategic problem, rather than here and now.

I think that the percentage is irrelevant. All involved should be shipped off. If that's one person then so be it. If it's 2,000 involved then equally get rid of them. Just to be clear: I am against the content, not the religion. If there are any Christians, Jews, Hindus, or Jedis doing this then they should get the same treatment.

[gaelic cowboy]

You need to licence your own Imams and print there books for them with plenty unannounced inspections to ensure there not teaching Islamofacism.

Deportation does not seem to me to be a solution at all not that these loons should not be sent home but what if the fella is an English convert.

[Fragony]

This is clearly unacceptable. [Edit: to be clear, I don't mean your post, rather the subject of the thread!]

I admit my first thought was "lets keep this in perpective", but 5000 students is a lot of people to poison with this rot. My google fu has failed me in finding (recent) statistics on independant faith schools in Britain. It would be interesting to know how big a chunk of the independant Islamic sector this represents. I also know bugger-all about the governance of independant schools, or what powers there are to limit this kind of hideous curriculum.

Re the Saudis, I can quite imagine that this does have nothing to do with the Saudi government, it's most likely to be some sort of charity. Plus, the Saudis govt is really only bothered about what happens at home and not so much about the country's non-petroleum based exports.

Hard to get numbers because of a loop in British law, they can't inspect these schools as they are privately funded.

[Fragony]

Little update on arrests, they discussed their plan on internet these are just mountaingoats who misjumped their mountain.

[al Roumi]

I also know bugger-all about the governance of independant schools, or what powers there are to limit this kind of hideous curriculum.

Also, the powers used to actually address this now are probably those free-speech limiting "incitement to hatred and violence" ones...

[Fragony]

Also, the powers used to actually address this now are probably those free-speech limiting "incitement to hatred and violence" ones...

Well these powers are simply the word populist, or anything else that calls you morally inferior. Most muslims are really nice people and it matters nothing to me that they are a bit intolerant from a Dutch perspective. But this goes way beyond my tolerance. I also don't think they really want this.

[HoreTore]

Europe finally has a school that is teaching something other than liberal hogwash, and the conservatives are mad about it....?

[Fragony]

That's not clever that's an ultra-conservative reflex.

[Ironside]

I must say that in thier very finite wisdom, they are teaching those students some important lessons further down the road. The ones following this bile can, if they work hard enough, first teach their targets and then themself of what being on the recieving sides of the words pruning, purge, pogrom means.

Fanatism really does turn off some of the higher brain functions.

Deportation or at least kicking those teachers out of the school and better control on what is teached at private school is desperatly needed.

[HoreTore]

I must say that in thier very finite wisdom, they are teaching those students some important lessons further down the road. The ones following this bile can, if they work hard enough, first teach their targets and then themself of what being on the recieving sides of the words pruning, purge, pogrom means.

Fanatism really does turn off some of the higher brain functions.

Deportation or at least kicking those teachers out of the school and better control on what is teached at private school is desperatly needed.

Missed the point entirely, bro.

Banning private schools altogether is, of course, the only possible way forward. This is far from the only instance of "loony private school"-syndrome, even if it is more graphic than other cases. Stop 'em altogether, they have nothing to offer society.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Instead of scrapping the entire private school system or deporting lots of brown people, maybe we could just regulate these institutions better?

[HoreTore]

Instead of scrapping the entire private school system or deporting lots of brown people, maybe we could just regulate these institutions better?

Why not use that money to make the public school better?

If the christians want a private school where they get to teach that gays go to hell or creationism, I want a school where I can teach students that people of x colour are vermin.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Why not use that money to make the public school better?

If the christians want a private school where they get to teach that gays go to hell or creationism, I want a school where I can teach students that people of x colour are vermin.

Don't have a problem with it, same rules as for the rest of society, no calls for direct violence. So long as they can still teach kids the necessary when it comes to reading/writing.

[HoreTore]

Don't have a problem with it, same rules as for the rest of society, no calls for direct violence. So long as they can still teach kids the necessary when it comes to reading/writing.

So, you don't want a school to be in favour of war?

[Fragony]

Why not use that money to make the public school better?

If the christians want a private school where they get to teach that gays go to hell or creationism, I want a school where I can teach students that people of x colour are vermin.

You can honestly not see the difference? Christians don't dehumanise, it's 'want to go to hell well your call', disbelieving is a choice with consequences in death, not life

[al Roumi]

You can honestly not see the difference? Christians don't dehumanise, it's 'want to go to hell well your call', disbelieving is a choice with consequences in death, not life

You do yourelf a dis-service with such a broad post. Are you really saying that ALL Christians have a "live and let live" credo? And conversely, that ALL Muslims are intolerant? Come on...

Also, I think some of y'all non-Brutunculi miss something re the state/independant school issue here. There is a long historic tradition of independant schools -be it public/private schools or others, e.g. faith based or Rudolph Steiner. I don't think that these schools have to teach the national curriculum, but the kids do have to/find it easier to have a normal life by doing the national exams. Clearly, the organisation highlighted by Panorama is doing a lot wrong and should be sanctioned in some way, but lets not through the baby out with the bath water.

[Louis VI the Fat]

You do yourelf a dis-service with such a broad post. Are you really saying that ALL Christians have a "live and let live" credo? And conversely, that ALL Muslims are intolerant? Come on...

To say that 'Italy is hotter than Sweden' does not mean 'all of Italy is all of the time warmer than all of Sweden all of the time'.

Consequently, digging up some hot midsummer heatwave in Sweden, or pointing out the very cold Alpine regions of Italy do not disprove the statement either.

[rory_20_uk]

I am certain that persons of all religions can be intolerant. I do think however, that some religions do appear to be more tolerant of others. For example what is the penalty of stopping being a Christian in all major denominations? You'll go to hell when you die. Some Christians do try to make things worse by "saving the soul by destroying the body", but this is definitely post-hoc. In Islam? Death. Arguably, to not kill them you're having to re-interpret the texts.

This one is not a school, it's an after school. Private schools fall under OFSTEAD. When I was there we did have to adhere to the national curriculum. Things might have changed of course.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I am certain that persons of all religions can be intolerant. I do think however, that some religions do appear to be more tolerant of others.

By what mechanism would religions all be exactly as tolerant of others? Or for that matter, all end up exactly as peaceful, embracing of diversity, stimulative of scientific enquiry, etc?

Different religions, like different political systems of thought, are...different.

[Fragony]

You do yourelf a dis-service with such a broad post. Are you really saying that ALL Christians have a "live and let live" credo? And conversely, that ALL Muslims are intolerant? Come on...

Also, I think some of y'all non-Brutunculi miss something re the state/independant school issue here. There is a long historic tradition of independant schools -be it public/private schools or others, e.g. faith based or Rudolph Steiner. I don't think that these schools have to teach the national curriculum, but the kids do have to/find it easier to have a normal life by doing the national exams. Clearly, the organisation highlighted by Panorama is doing a lot wrong and should be sanctioned in some way, but lets not through the baby out with the bath water.

I never say all you just read that, you do me a disservice by assuming I'm that dumb.

[rory_20_uk]

By what mechanism would religions all be exactly as tolerant of others? Or for that matter, all end up exactly as peaceful, embracing of diversity, stimulative of scientific enquiry, etc?

Different religions, like different political systems of thought, are...different.

Indeed they are. And in the same way that some political systems are not welcome in the UK, some religions should also not be welcome. Merely as the Celts used to drink blood from skulls of their victims does not mean that the practice is welcome these days.

Religious tolerance should be a two way street; those that are intolerant should not be tolerated.

[HoreTore]

This one is not a school, it's an after school.

Well that changes everything in my opinion.

What people do in their own free time is up to themselves. Whether they want to pick flowers or learn how to kill is irrelevant to me, it's none of my bloody business.


I do not believe in limiting free speech.

[Rahwana]

meh, that very same things are taught in some schools here 10 years ago, and now, they start to hatch suicide bombers and terrorists, ok ok, Europe is not here, and far away in half the globe BTW, and I'll just laugh when 10 years from now, European start to produce muslim terrorists that create a lot of bloody fireworks in Europe because some "tolerant leftists" leave them out and "protect their rights"...

not my business, not my business...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Go grab their neck and throw them out of your country you idiot "tolerant leftists" they are the very seeds of terrorists!!!

*. PS: sorry to use the word "idiots", I just can't choose another words to describe that...