Elder Scrolls V: "Soon"

[lars573]

Spears and halberds are cool.

But completely useless as weapons in Morrowind.

[Fragony]

But completely useless as weapons in Morrowind.

Yeah they better take a lesson or two from Demon's Souls on weapon handling

[Skullheadhq]

I liked Oblivion and Morrowind.

[Togakure]

I enjoyed both, but Morrowind a lot more. The number of hours playing each is the tell-tale for me: I easily spent double to triple the number of hours playing Morrowind over Oblivion.

I am curious to see what they come up with next, and will likely try it when I can. I tend to run behind the current level of tech and so play games a year or so after their release. Tends to work out well in the $ department, and I get plenty of mileage out of the games I do buy this way.

[ReluctantSamurai]

But completely useless as weapons in Morrowind.

That depends on how you use them. Spears and halberds have a longer reach than any other weapon and so you will get a "first strike" capability. By the time my character heads for Dagoth Ur, and all the way through Tribunal and Bloodmoon (Nord female, usually) I carry only four weapons in inventory: Spear of Bitter Mercy, Daedric Crescent, Sunder, and the Auriel Bow. With a spear skill of 100, and strength enhanced well over 150, I get a knockdown effect with Bitter Mercy at least 50% of the time and long before those wussy short-sword maniacs can lay so much as a finger on me. A quick switch to Sunder or the D. Crescent, and it's all over.

I agree with others......hopefully V will be a return to III in terms of immersiveness, complexity, and beauty.

[Vladimir]

That depends on how you use them. Spears and halberds have a longer reach than any other weapon and so you will get a "first strike" capability. By the time my character heads for Dagoth Ur, and all the way through Tribunal and Bloodmoon (Nord female, usually) I carry only four weapons in inventory: Spear of Bitter Mercy, Daedric Crescent, Sunder, and the Auriel Bow. With a spear skill of 100, and strength enhanced well over 150, I get a knockdown effect with Bitter Mercy at least 50% of the time and long before those wussy short-sword maniacs can lay so much as a finger on me. A quick switch to Sunder or the D. Crescent, and it's all over.

I agree with others......hopefully V will be a return to III in terms of immersiveness, complexity, and beauty.

Exactly. I built a fast, light character that used the greater reach to good effect. In fact, the entire character was built around that weapon since there was no mounted warfare.

[ReluctantSamurai]

I also forgot to mention that I play with the Giants and Dragons plug-in and you simply cannot hit the top two levels of dragons with anything but a bow from a distance, and a spear up close and personal. Getting up close and personal with an Elder or Mega Dragon is not recommended, as they can chunk you for 100 hit-points at a time even at level 30-40, but is unavoidable if you want to wander around the Molag Amur.

[lars573]

That depends on how you use them. Spears and halberds have a longer reach than any other weapon and so you will get a "first strike" capability. By the time my character heads for Dagoth Ur, and all the way through Tribunal and Bloodmoon (Nord female, usually) I carry only four weapons in inventory: Spear of Bitter Mercy, Daedric Crescent, Sunder, and the Auriel Bow. With a spear skill of 100, and strength enhanced well over 150, I get a knockdown effect with Bitter Mercy at least 50% of the time and long before those wussy short-sword maniacs can lay so much as a finger on me. A quick switch to Sunder or the D. Crescent, and it's all over.

I agree with others......hopefully V will be a return to III in terms of immersiveness, complexity, and beauty.

Spears are only good on the thrust. Which you have to be walking forward or back to do. So beyond that first strike they are useless. Because the gap has been closed by then. And switching weapons in combat being such a pain in Morrowind, best to have the weapon you intend on using the whole slugfest equipped from the start. And great swords also have the range bonus. Hence polearms in an ES game are useless. Too dificult to use and completely redundant.

[ReluctantSamurai]

And great swords also have the range bonus.

I don't believe they do. According to the weapon stats I've seen, all swords, short or long, have a reach of 1.0. Spears and staffs have a reach of 1.8 which means either get the first strike if you are not surprised. For a short list (I had a complete list somewhere but cannot find it at the moment), look here:

http://www.uesp.net/morrow/hints/mwartifacts.shtml

In addition, spears can reach over obstacles like rocks, so I can hit something that in all likelihood, cannot hit back (a tactic I use quite frequently early in the game when my character is not fully developed), and can reach up and "touch" those PITA cliff racers before they can hit me, if they mange to close in past my archery.

And switching weapons in combat being such a pain in Morrowind, best to have the weapon you intend on using the whole slugfest equipped from the start.

I agree, but I have a six-button mouse...and it's a simple thing to assign a button to weapon-switch. I've learned to do all my looting after I've killed all the baddies, so I'm not carrying excess weapons.

So beyond that first strike they are useless.

As I stated earlier, with a Spear skill at 100, and a Strength rating around 175, that first strike is often all I need. At least 50% of the time my opponent is lying helpless on the ground;-)

Hence polearms in an ES game are useless. Too dificult to use and completely redundant.

Obviously, I disagree, but hey, to each their own. I love them, make them one of my mainstays, and make it a point to get to Ghostgate as early as I can survive the journey to get my first Glass Halberd.

[God Emperor]

But completely useless as weapons in Morrowind.

Spear of Bitter Mercy??? :p

On the contrary I enjoyed Morrowind because the world just had the huge amount of depth that Oblivion lacked. Oblivion was a totally dumbed-down game where graphics and radiant AI were the clear selling points. Ironically the inclusion of every line being voice-acted meant that there were far fewer lines of dialogue meaning that as you progressed through the game you were not ever as immersed as you were in Morrowind.

I completely agree.. the dialogue in Morrowind was clearly much more interesting. example of random dialogue in Oblivion

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Person A: Hi

person B: hi

Person A: Bai

Person B: Bai

Person A: Hi

Person B: Hi

Person A: HAVE YOU HEARD???? Kvatch has BEEN OVERUN !!!

Person B: .. I see

Person B: have you tried out that new alchemist?

[ReluctantSamurai]

@ lars

Well, it's apparent that we'll have to agree to disagree....but a few last points....

Here's two lists that cover pretty much every weapon in the ESIII trilogy:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Category:Morrowind-Weapons

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Weapon_Artifacts

Every sword, either single hand or two hand has a reach of 1.0. Every spear and staff has a reach of 1.8. Now I dunno if the X-Box version has different stats, but those are the ones I'm familiar with...and clearly the spear/halberd outranges even a dai-katana. My in-game experience shows this to be the case, as well. I always....as in every single time...get the first strike on all those great sword maniacs that greet you at the door to daedric ruins or a smugglers hideout. Outside of a daedric ruin, I can batter a dremora lord or a golden saint on the other side of a wall or some other obstacle with a spear or halberd and they cannot hit me back even if wielding a dai-katana.

I would think that with all the fancy controllers available to console platforms (and I don't own one), that unless the configure button feature is missing in the X-Box ver, you should be able to mitigate the rather clumsy UI for weapon choice.

As to a two-handed weapon having knockdown capabilities...that's true. With sufficient skill and very high strength, I dare say you can knock an opponent down with a short sword...I've done it. But.......my point is that with a spear/halberd I will do it to my opponent before they can attempt to do it to me. Saves a lot of time on reloads

As far as going early to Ghostgate, I like to push the envelope further every time I play. By lvl 35-40 my character can take on anything, anywhere, without hardly breaking a sweat, so it's the early game challenges that hold my interest.

"And that's all I've got to say about that."---Forest Gump

[lars573]

@ lars

Well, it's apparent that we'll have to agree to disagree....but a few last points....

Here's two lists that cover pretty much every weapon in the ESIII trilogy:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Category:Morrowind-Weapons

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Weapon_Artifacts

Every sword, either single hand or two hand has a reach of 1.0. Every spear and staff has a reach of 1.8. Now I dunno if the X-Box version has different stats, but those are the ones I'm familiar with...and clearly the spear/halberd outranges even a dai-katana. My in-game experience shows this to be the case, as well. I always....as in every single time...get the first strike on all those great sword maniacs that greet you at the door to daedric ruins or a smugglers hideout. Outside of a daedric ruin, I can batter a dremora lord or a golden saint on the other side of a wall or some other obstacle with a spear or halberd and they cannot hit me back even if wielding a dai-katana.

Look I've played enough Morrowind to know that whom ever made those lists are wrong. It says that any weapon not a spear has the same reach. And my experience tells me that is not true. A great sword out ranges a short sword and a dagger. In fact I make certain to carry around a great sword or hammer because of their first strike ability against Cliffracers. Skill level dependant naturally.

I would think that with all the fancy controllers available to console platforms (and I don't own one), that unless the configure button feature is missing in the X-Box ver, you should be able to mitigate the rather clumsy UI for weapon choice.

As to a two-handed weapon having knockdown capabilities...that's true. With sufficient skill and very high strength, I dare say you can knock an opponent down with a short sword...I've done it. But.......my point is that with a spear/halberd I will do it to my opponent before they can attempt to do it to me. Saves a lot of time on reloads

Console don't let you custom map buttons as a rule. They use preset button maps. Most games will have a half dozen maps. And you can invert the y-axis.

As far as going early to Ghostgate, I like to push the envelope further every time I play. By lvl 35-40 my character can take on anything, anywhere, without hardly breaking a sweat, so it's the early game challenges that hold my interest.

"And that's all I've got to say about that."---Forest Gump

And I roam the country side looking for trouble.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Look I've played enough Morrowind to know that whom ever made those lists are wrong. It says that any weapon not a spear has the same reach. And my experience tells me that is not true.

I would assume that whoever made those lists have experience at using the TES Contruction Toolset, which I do not. So I cannot say whether they are right or wrong. However, not every weapon on those lists that is not a polearm has the same reach. Common sense would be on your side, I think. Makes sense that longswords should outrange daggers and shortswords, and that polearms should have the longest reach of all. That has been my experience.

Console don't let you custom map buttons as a rule.

Just one more reason why I won't buy one, despite the pestering I get from my son. I'd rather take all that money and buy an upgrade for my PC. I can see why weapon change would be an issue for console users if there's no way to configure the buttons. Bethesda should have taken a lesson from Bioware's NWN UI, which makes weapon and other equipment changes as easy as a single mouse-click. Even more absurd is the silly hand-weaving for spellcasting. My hat's off to those who have the patience to play that type of character...I certainly don't.

Bottom line....TES is all about customizing; and you can create and play your character in a multitude of ways. You seem to prefer the big swords and indeed they are some of the more powerful weapons in the game. I use them myself, when the mood suits me. But....to claim that pole arms are useless is....well...not right, IMHO. My own game experience tells me so.

But enough hijacking of this thread. Let's hope Bethesda comes up with a better UI for TES V, and a return to the deep immersiveness of III.

[lars573]

I would assume that whoever made those lists have experience at using the TES Contruction Toolset, which I do not. So I cannot say whether they are right or wrong. However, not every weapon on those lists that is not a polearm has the same reach. Common sense would be on your side, I think. Makes sense that longswords should outrange daggers and shortswords, and that polearms should have the longest reach of all. That has been my experience.

And they don't make mention of how long weapons aren't as effective at close range. Which is one reason I call shenanigans on those lists.

Just one more reason why I won't buy one, despite the pestering I get from my son. I'd rather take all that money and buy an upgrade for my PC. I can see why weapon change would be an issue for console users if there's no way to configure the buttons. Bethesda should have taken a lesson from Bioware's NWN UI, which makes weapon and other equipment changes as easy as a single mouse-click. Even more absurd is the silly hand-weaving for spellcasting. My hat's off to those who have the patience to play that type of character...I certainly don't.

After trying RPG's on PC, all I can say is, never again. A mouse and keyboard are ill suited to controlling an RPG. A controller is far and away the best choice. And future ES games will be built with such in mind, like Oblivion was.

Bottom line....TES is all about customizing; and you can create and play your character in a multitude of ways. You seem to prefer the big swords and indeed they are some of the more powerful weapons in the game. I use them myself, when the mood suits me. But....to claim that pole arms are useless is....well...not right, IMHO. My own game experience tells me so.

With the way combat was built in Morrowind they were too cumbersome to use and didn't offer much beyond some range bonus vs. a long/great sword.

But enough hijacking of this thread. Let's hope Bethesda comes up with a better UI for TES V, and a return to the deep immersiveness of III.

I think you'll be disappointed. Oblivions UI was optimized for the consoles. Everyting about it was for ease of use with a controller. Including the new quick switch system. And from what I've read on the TES I and II, Morrowind was an aberration (or an experiment). Oblivion is more like what Arena and Daggerfall were like in their day. They both had a level scalling systems like Oblivion.

[Tuuvi]

I Played Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas on PC and had no problem with the UI. You can assign items to number keys so switching weapons is easy. I played Fallout 3 on xbox once and I had difficulty with the controls, and in order to switch weapons I had to open up the PIP boy every time. So I don't think its true that Oblivion's UI is optimized for consoles.