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Thread: Euro Area

  1. #211
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quietly sneaking this in here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    as noted before, we english (read: British) are an arrogant bunch
    No, the English/British are not at all an arrogant bunch. I think that's just you passing off private hypernationalism as a national character trait of a monolithic English/British identity.

    The English are on the whole perfectly relaxed about their identity, and quite open. Inquisitive and embracing of the outsider and the foreign. There are few practical reasons for an Englishman to learn foreign languages, this is often, in Britain and elsewhere, mistaken for the British being oblivious of the world, of being culturally inward looking. Quod non!
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  2. #212
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Quietly sneaking this in here:

    No, the English/British are not at all an arrogant bunch. I think that's just you passing off private hypernationalism as a national character trait of a monolithic English/British identity.

    The English are on the whole perfectly relaxed about their identity, and quite open. Inquisitive and embracing of the outsider and the foreign. There are few practical reasons for an Englishman to learn foreign languages, this is often, in Britain and elsewhere, mistaken for the British being oblivious of the world, of being culturally inward looking. Quod non!
    Britain has always been a melting pot of sorts since the days of the Empire where intellectual elites from around the world mingled in the streets of London. There are many great names which visited, should as Gandhi in his younger days, who took these ideas back with them when they returned home.
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  3. #213

    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    They most definitely didn't mingle in the streets of London, though.
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  4. #214
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    No, the English/British are not at all an arrogant bunch. I think that's just you passing off private hypernationalism as a national character trait of a monolithic English/British identity.

    The English are on the whole perfectly relaxed about their identity, and quite open. Inquisitive and embracing of the outsider and the foreign.
    lol, you think i suffer from hyper-nationalism, little old moderate me! there is a shock waiting for you if you ever explore the british political scene beyond the moist confines of libdemmery.

    quite, how does this conflict with our oft-noted tendency for casual disregard for the opinions of johnny foriegner?
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  5. #215
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    More: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...ubjugated.html

    My favourite part? Ireland and Spain never breached the debt ceiling, France and Germany did. So much for the EU protecting smaller countries.
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  6. #216
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    yeah, i read that this morning.

    but it's not as if the irish didn't know this, how they must be chuckling!

    especially as there is apparently not much difference between French and irish corporation tax rates once you factor in various disbursements, and subsidies.
    Last edited by Furunculus; 03-14-2011 at 13:13.
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  7. #217
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    More: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...ubjugated.html

    My favourite part? Ireland and Spain never breached the debt ceiling, France and Germany did. So much for the EU protecting smaller countries.
    My favourite part is the article catering to my dear wish to finally come up with something other than the tired 'communist EUSSR' or 'Superstate Europe'.

    And boy did they deliver!
    'It is as if Merkel has somehow been crowned Magna Mater Europae by the Consilium'.
    So glorious. So beautiful. So utterly...so...so beyond anything.
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  8. #218
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Meanwhile outside of the hysteria of the tabloid universe...


    The deal as described by the reality-based press. In this case, by that bastion of traditional British values such as liberty and capitalism and quiet self-assuredness, the Financial Times:

    Eurozone leaders reach deal on key reforms



    For weeks, European officials had promised that a “grand bargain” of reforms to shore up eurozone finances would be agreed at the end of March.
    The 17 eurozone heads of government surprised many, however, including some within their own ranks, by cutting a deal on almost all the important elements in the early hours of Saturday during an emergency summit in Brussels.

    Leaders committed to increasing the lending capacity of the current rescue fund – the European financial stability facility – from about €250bn to its full, headline level of €440bn ($610bn), making it able to bail out several more eurozone countries should the debt crisis continue to spread.
    A permanent, post-2013 fund – the European Stability Mechanism – will be able to lend up to €500bn, likely to be achieved through stepped-up guarantees from triple-A states and paid-in capital from those with weaker balance sheets.

    The details are likely to be thrashed out by finance ministers at two days of meetings that start today, but they are expected to include a doubling of loan guarantees from triple-A rated states such as Germany and France.

    The deal falls short of expectations, however, in the new tools available to the funds.


    EU officials, including European Central Bank president Jean-Claude Trichet, had long argued that they should be able to do more than just bail out troubled economies. But in the face of German and Dutch resistance, the 17 leaders chose a more limited route. The funds will be able to buy bonds, but only directly from a struggling government – not on the open market – and only after that government agrees to austerity measures similar to those im-posed on bail-out nations.

    The new powers may help struggling countries return to the debt markets more quickly, but because they can only be used in a narrow set of circumstances they are unlikely to have any impact on the current borrowing costs of countries such as Portugal.

    Greece and Ireland

    The two countries currently in bail-outs were offered an easing in their rescue terms in exchange for further austerity measures. Greece took the deal. Athens agreed to sell off €50bn in government assets, for which it will see the interest rate on the EU’s portion of its €110bn bail-out lowered by a full percentage point, to just over 4 per cent.
    It also will now be able to pay its bail-out loans back over 7.5 years instead of the original 4.5 years.
    Given the size of its debt, however, the change is likely to have only a marginal effect on whether Athens will eventually default.

    Ireland rejected the deal. In exchange for a full percentage point decrease of its 6 per cent bail-out loan, the new Dublin government was asked to give up its ultra-low 12.5 per cent corporate tax rate. For Enda Kenny, the new Irish prime minister, the cost was too high.

    ‘Pact for the euro’
    Leaders also agreed to a four-page pact that commits them to closer economic co-ordination and a series of new austerity measures, including caps on government spending, close monitoring of pension schemes, and limits on public sector wage increases.
    As it stands, however, the pact remains an agreement on principles without enforcement. An original German-backed version included the possibility of sanctions for violators. If it were given teeth, the pact could have an impact on national finances, particularly its requirement for “debt brake” laws that automatically prevent governments from breaching EU borrowing limits.

    Budget rules
    The deal also includes subtle but important commitments on the only remaining issue: legislative measures to strengthen EU budget rules.
    Leaders on Friday committed to force countries to close the gap between their current debt levels and the EU’s legal debt limit – 60 per cent of gross domestic product – by 5 per cent each year, a measure opposed by high debtors such as Italy. They also made it harder for politicians to veto fines imposed on recalcitrant debtors.


    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9c58ec20-4...#axzz1GZfn1NZY
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  9. #219
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    oops, portugal decided it doesn't need stable and effective government at a time when markets have already pushed up interest rates past 7%.

    i foresee a Portuguese bailout in short order.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  10. #220
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    oops, portugal decided it doesn't need stable and effective government at a time when markets have already pushed up interest rates past 7%.

    i foresee a Portuguese bailout in short order.
    Well to be fair a minority style government does not have the kind of mandate required to fix the finances, having said that it does look like bailout time again.
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  11. #221
    Vindicative son of a gun Member Jolt's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Well, we'll pay, but with even harsher conditions, Spain and Portugal will cede their independence and become German states, then we can tax everybody in Germany with another solidarity tax to build up these two.We can deal with the speculators and bondholders once we have conquered the world, they will cause their own downfall...

    Actually you're right to an extent, but the thing that makes Spain and Portugal most likely to default (whatever exactly that means in financial terms) is people talking about them defaulting soon, which scares all the bondfondlers and sharecrows.
    Deutsch Portugal und unseren GroB Deutschland über alles!


    Curiously, I'm still yet to figure out the primary reason for our State interest rate going through the roof. Our government was actually controlling and lowering the deficit, the first two austerity packages to lower the deficit after it shot up when the State served as social net for a bank bailout and the crisis impact on families and companies (Shot to almost 10% deficit then went down to 6-7% in only a few months), and only then putting up austerity packages after austerity package to cope with the increasing interest spread, yet it just still kept rising. It doesn't help that my university (Who is right-leaning to begin with) goes to explanations ranging from vague "We are not competitive enough" (Which is odd, because we were not competitive before and nothing even close to this happened.) to "It's the outside crisis" (Which would actually make sense except if we check the financial data before the interest rates went through the roof, we had several budget areas under much better control than other countries like France or the UK, even when we were uncompetitive and already in this crisis) to "It's just pure financial speculation without any real reason for the increase in interest spreads, beyond making money toppling Portugal and getting to Spain, which is the big prize" (And I was surprised to hear that from the mouth of a PSD-militant professor who is very clearly liberal leaning.)

    There is still something unanswered. What is the fundamental endogenous cause which changed for Portugal so all of a sudden it couldn't pay it's 3-4% interest rate commitments like it had been doing since the 2000's?
    Greece is understandable as the government concealed deficits and embarked on shady deals, which showed that Greece's finances were in fact extraordinarily much worse than it had shown to be.
    Ireland happened because it had to prevent its financial infrastructure from evaporating, and blew its finances to prevent it.
    Portugal...?
    Last edited by Jolt; 03-29-2011 at 02:11.
    BLARGH!

  12. #222
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    The problem is an inability on the part of the commission to face the reality that most of the various problems are not budgetary. The various bailout/knockout packages are designed for budgetary problems purely because that is all the EU could stomach at the time of the Greek implosion. Ireland had no such problem til the banks blew up and instead of properly sorting the banks by forcing losses on creditors as should have happened they put money into them using a bailout, this made Ireland's problem a sovereign one, but it did not solve the underlying problem the banks inability to obtain market funding.

    Now this fear/speculation basically meant that the market decided Ireland/Greece were rightly factored in as not being able to pay back the bailout terms. This meant that the threat of default rises so all weaker country bonds go UP in price and hurt the sovereign, Portugal of course does not have a major budgetary problem, it is a competitiveness problem the faster you run the more you will spend, hence these market types feel you wont actually earn enough to pay them back cos it will cost too much for Portugal to earn it.

    Also Portugal is likely going to be badly effected by any problem in Spain even a sniff of a problem there sends Portugal's bonds UP due to the interconnected economies.

    My bet is that the ECB has finally copped that the Irish banks need one of two things either creditors be forced to take losses or the short term liquidity mechanism will be magically transformed into a medium term liquidity mechanism. This last one is the more likely and gives the banks some breathing room to stop having to hoard capital because of all the withdrawn deposits since the bailout and before. The Irish banks are still weak but not bleeding and the government here can concentrate on fixing the economy.

    Happily if that senario happens then Spain also might avail of it and ease the tension in there own banking system, the theory would be the spotlight would be off Portugal as a result. The only problem is if other larger countries set there face against it then Ireland will default and toxifiy there banking system and those market people know it, they have already factored in a creditor loss due to default so in a nice way extending our bank liquidity repayment timelimit to the ECB makes them lose money the bailout can be adhered too and everyone should get there money back bar Anglo Irish Bank who have/are been wound down.



    Now it's time for bed but I post a bit more on this tomorrow
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  13. #223
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    inteersting description of portugals problems:

    http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2011...ugals-bailout/

    it was the EU wot dunnit:

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance...restructuring/
    Last edited by Furunculus; 03-30-2011 at 08:35.
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  14. #224
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Louis will love this!

    Der Speigel article discussing why the latest rescue plan won't work:
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...3509-2,00.html

    Former European Commission Presidents Jacques Delors and Romano Prodi, as well as ex-Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt, call the plans for a competition pact "ineffective" and say that they will "not produce any results. The European Commission needs to finally get "access to economic policy", the authors write, to enable it to force Europe onto "the path of convergence".

    This sounds like a clear concept, but it is also reminiscent of Gosplan, the central state planning committee of the former Soviet Union. The European Commission has already introduced a strict regimen of quotas for products like light bulbs and biofuel, angering many consumers. Under the concepts devised by Delors, Prodi and Verhofstadt, the principle would be applied to virtually the entire economy.
    and
    It is an affliction of European policy that its protagonists in the national governments are generally split personalities. They call for a unified economic policy, and yet they refuse to cede any power to Brussels. They demand penalties for debt sinners, and yet they prevent sanctions from being imposed.

    And they invoke the European spirit while stubbornly pursuing national interests. Udo Di Fabio, a judge on Germany's Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe, speaks of "conceptual limits that can in fact only be exceeded by taking a spirited step in the direction of the federal state."
    rock on.
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  15. #225
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    inteersting description of portugals problems:

    http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2011...ugals-bailout/

    it was the EU wot dunnit:

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance...restructuring/
    The debt restructuring article there has been what I have been calling for since I dunno prob 2008 or summit, the reality is that unless the debt burden is either cancelled or reduced merely shoveling bailout money to any sovereign no matter who they are will end in restructuring.

    The stress tests are out today for the Irish banks, if they show anything less than 40-50bn capital requirement for the banks then you can mark it down that there is a stitch up in the off, my feeling is that they will come in under 35bn purely because thats what was provided for in the bailout agreed.
    Last edited by gaelic cowboy; 03-30-2011 at 14:06.
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  16. #226
    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    ....and the Portuguese government throws in the towel.
    "If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
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  17. #227
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    ....and the Portuguese government throws in the towel.
    You people still have got towels left?


    That's not right. I thought the subjugation of Portugal was at least as far advanced as that of Ireland.

    The periphery is proving more sturdy than we thought...
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  18. #228
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Well the stress tests for Ireland's banks came back at under 35bn so that's basically a lie again and the medium term liquidity facility was not agreed so in the end prob sometime around 2012-2013 we will have some sort of default oh sorry I meant "Burden Sharing".

    On Portugal it looks like various large banks pretty much told the Portugese caretaker government to bailin 1-0 to the Banksters
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  19. #229
    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    On Portugal it looks like various large banks pretty much told the Portugese caretaker government to bailin 1-0 to the Banksters
    The Portuguese banks basically told the government they would buy no more government debt bonds....claiming lack of liquidity and excessive exposure to government debt.
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  20. #230
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    The Portuguese banks basically told the government they would buy no more government debt bonds....claiming lack of liquidity and excessive exposure to government debt.
    And said banks shares went up on the announcement that the government now has bailin money to pay for the bonds.
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  21. #231
    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    And said banks shares went up on the announcement that the government now has bailin money to pay for the bonds.
    well..those shares have been taking a pounding over the last few weeks....of course the news of economic bailout is gonna cause the bank's value to recover somewhat.
    "If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
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  22. #232
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    well..those shares have been taking a pounding over the last few weeks....of course the news of economic bailout is gonna cause the bank's value to recover somewhat.
    Thats because outside the bailout mechanism the banks might lose money in potential haircuts etc, now taking money from EU/IMF haircuts will be off the table at the insistence of the ECB and EU.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
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  23. #233
    Vindicative son of a gun Member Jolt's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Bleh. Next stop: Spain.
    BLARGH!

  24. #234
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Italy is managing to be in a right mess too. Might the north wish to cede from the South?

    Good thing there's a strong leader with a hand on the rudder... oh, more like a letcherous old man doing the job part time whilst he shuttle runs back to and from court.

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  25. #235
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    I'm still waiting for Germany to start gobbiling up property, in 5 years they will control they entierity of the continent save Russia and the UK

    Now that would be epic lulz
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  26. #236
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    That was the whole reason for the EU.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

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  27. #237
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Ireland's future depends on breaking free from bailout

    Opinion piece from Morgan Kelly in todays Irish Times he is professor of economics at University College Dublin

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    : Ireland is heading for bankruptcy, which would be catastrophic for a country that trades on its reputation as a safe place to do business, writes MORGAN KELLY

    WITH THE Irish Government on track to owe a quarter of a trillion euro by 2014, a prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable. By the time the dust settles, Ireland’s last remaining asset, its reputation as a safe place from which to conduct business, will have been destroyed.

    Ireland is facing economic ruin.

    While most people would trace our ruin to to the bank guarantee of September 2008, the real error was in sticking with the guarantee long after it had become clear that the bank losses were insupportable. Brian Lenihan’s original decision to guarantee most of the bonds of Irish banks was a mistake, but a mistake so obvious and so ridiculous that it could easily have been reversed. The ideal time to have reversed the bank guarantee was a few months later when Patrick Honohan was appointed governor of the Central Bank and assumed de facto control of Irish economic policy.

    As a respected academic expert on banking crises, Honohan commanded the international authority to have announced that the guarantee had been made in haste and with poor information, and would be replaced by a restructuring where bonds in the banks would be swapped for shares.

    Instead, Honohan seemed unperturbed by the possible scale of bank losses, repeatedly insisting that they were “manageable”. Like most Irish economists of his generation, he appeared to believe that Ireland was still the export-driven powerhouse of the 1990s, rather than the credit-fuelled Ponzi scheme it had become since 2000; and the banking crisis no worse than the, largely manufactured, government budget crisis of the late 1980s.

    Rising dismay at Honohan’s judgment crystallised into outright scepticism after an extraordinary interview with Bloomberg business news on May 28th last year. Having overseen the Central Bank’s “quite aggressive” stress tests of the Irish banks, he assured them that he would have “the two big banks, fixed by the end of the year. I think it’s quite good news The banks are floating away from dependence on the State and will be free standing”.

    Honohan’s miscalculation of the bank losses has turned out to be the costliest mistake ever made by an Irish person. Armed with Honohan’s assurances that the bank losses were manageable, the Irish government confidently rode into the Little Bighorn and repaid the bank bondholders, even those who had not been guaranteed under the original scheme. This suicidal policy culminated in the repayment of most of the outstanding bonds last September.

    Disaster followed within weeks. Nobody would lend to Irish banks, so that the maturing bonds were repaid largely by emergency borrowing from the European Central Bank: by November the Irish banks already owed more than €60 billion. Despite aggressive cuts in government spending, the certainty that bank losses would far exceed Honohan’s estimates led financial markets to stop lending to Ireland.

    On November 16th, European finance ministers urged Lenihan to accept a bailout to stop the panic spreading to Spain and Portugal, but he refused, arguing that the Irish government was funded until the following summer. Although attacked by the Irish media for this seemingly delusional behaviour, Lenihan, for once, was doing precisely the right thing. Behind Lenihan’s refusal lay the thinly veiled threat that, unless given suitably generous terms, Ireland could hold happily its breath for long enough that Spain and Portugal, who needed to borrow every month, would drown.

    At this stage, with Lenihan looking set to exploit his strong negotiating position to seek a bailout of the banks only, Honohan intervened. As well as being Ireland’s chief economic adviser, he also plays for the opposing team as a member of the council of the European Central Bank, whose decisions he is bound to carry out. In Frankfurt for the monthly meeting of the ECB on November 18th, Honohan announced on RTÉ Radio 1’s Morning Ireland that Ireland would need a bailout of “tens of billions”.

    Rarely has a finance minister been so deftly sliced off at the ankles by his central bank governor. And so the Honohan Doctrine that bank losses could and should be repaid by Irish taxpayers ran its predictable course with the financial collapse and international bailout of the Irish State.

    Ireland’s Last Stand began less shambolically than you might expect. The IMF, which believes that lenders should pay for their stupidity before it has to reach into its pocket, presented the Irish with a plan to haircut €30 billion of unguaranteed bonds by two-thirds on average. Lenihan was overjoyed, according to a source who was there, telling the IMF team: “You are Ireland’s salvation.”

    The deal was torpedoed from an unexpected direction. At a conference call with the G7 finance ministers, the haircut was vetoed by US treasury secretary Timothy Geithner who, as his payment of $13 billion from government-owned AIG to Goldman Sachs showed, believes that bankers take priority over taxpayers. The only one to speak up for the Irish was UK chancellor George Osborne, but Geithner, as always, got his way. An instructive, if painful, lesson in the extent of US soft power, and in who our friends really are.

    The negotiations went downhill from there. On one side was the European Central Bank, unabashedly representing Ireland’s creditors and insisting on full repayment of bank bonds. On the other was the IMF, arguing that Irish taxpayers would be doing well to balance their government’s books, let alone repay the losses of private banks. And the Irish? On the side of the ECB, naturally.

    In the circumstances, the ECB walked away with everything it wanted. The IMF were scathing of the Irish performance, with one staffer describing the eagerness of some Irish negotiators to side with the ECB as displaying strong elements of Stockholm Syndrome.

    The bailout represents almost as much of a scandal for the IMF as it does for Ireland. The IMF found itself outmanoeuvred by ECB negotiators, their low opinion of whom they are not at pains to conceal. More importantly, the IMF was forced by the obduracy of Geithner and the spinelessness, or worse, of the Irish to lend their imprimatur, and €30 billion of their capital, to a deal that its negotiators privately admit will end in Irish bankruptcy. Lending to an insolvent state, which has no hope of reducing its debt enough to borrow in markets again, breaches the most fundamental rule of the IMF, and a heated debate continues there over the legality of the Irish deal.

    Six months on, and with Irish government debt rated one notch above junk and the run on Irish banks starting to spread to household deposits, it might appear that the Irish bailout of last November has already ended in abject failure. On the contrary, as far as its ECB architects are concerned, the bailout has turned out to be an unqualified success.

    The one thing you need to understand about the Irish bailout is that it had nothing to do with repairing Ireland’s finances enough to allow the Irish Government to start borrowing again in the bond markets at reasonable rates: what people ordinarily think of a bailout as doing.

    The finances of the Irish Government are like a bucket with a large hole in the form of the banking system. While any half-serious rescue would have focused on plugging this hole, the agreed bailout ostentatiously ignored the banks, except for reiterating the ECB-Honohan view that their losses would be borne by Irish taxpayers. Try to imagine the Bank of England’s insisting that Northern Rock be rescued by Newcastle City Council and you have some idea of how seriously the ECB expects the Irish bailout to work.

    Instead, the sole purpose of the Irish bailout was to frighten the Spanish into line with a vivid demonstration that EU rescues are not for the faint-hearted. And the ECB plan, so far anyway, has worked. Given a choice between being strung up like Ireland – an object of international ridicule, paying exorbitant rates on bailout funds, its government ministers answerable to a Hungarian university lecturer – or mending their ways, the Spanish have understandably chosen the latter.

    But why was it necessary, or at least expedient, for the EU to force an economic collapse on Ireland to frighten Spain? The answer goes back to a fundamental, and potentially fatal, flaw in the design of the euro zone: the lack of any means of dealing with large, insolvent banks.

    Back when the euro was being planned in the mid-1990s, it never occurred to anyone that cautious, stodgy banks like AIB and Bank of Ireland, run by faintly dim former rugby players, could ever borrow tens of billions overseas, and lose it all on dodgy property loans. Had the collapse been limited to Irish banks, some sort of rescue deal might have been cobbled together; but a suspicion lingers that many Spanish banks – which inflated a property bubble almost as exuberant as Ireland’s, but in the world’s ninth largest economy – are hiding losses as large as those that sank their Irish counterparts.

    Uniquely in the world, the European Central Bank has no central government standing behind it that can levy taxes. To rescue a banking system as large as Spain’s would require a massive commitment of resources by European countries to a European Monetary Fund: something so politically complex and financially costly that it will only be considered in extremis, to avert the collapse of the euro zone. It is easiest for now for the ECB to keep its fingers crossed that Spain pulls through by itself, encouraged by the example made of the Irish.

    Irish insolvency is now less a matter of economics than of arithmetic. If everything goes according to plan, as it always does, Ireland’s government debt will top €190 billion by 2014, with another €45 billion in Nama and €35 billion in bank recapitalisation, for a total of €270 billion, plus whatever losses the Irish Central Bank has made on its emergency lending. Subtracting off the likely value of the banks and Nama assets, Namawinelake (by far the best source on the Irish economy) reckons our final debt will be about €220 billion, and I think it will be closer to €250 billion, but these differences are immaterial: either way we are talking of a Government debt that is more than €120,000 per worker, or 60 per cent larger than GNP.

    Economists have a rule of thumb that once its national debt exceeds its national income, a small economy is in danger of default (large economies, like Japan, can go considerably higher). Ireland is so far into the red zone that marginal changes in the bailout terms can make no difference: we are going to be in the Hudson.

    The ECB applauded and lent Ireland the money to ensure that the banks that lent to Anglo and Nationwide be repaid, and now finds itself in the situation where, as a consequence, the banks that lent to the Irish Government are at risk of losing most of what they lent. In other words, the Irish banking crisis has become part of the larger European sovereign debt crisis.

    Given the political paralysis in the EU, and a European Central Bank that sees its main task as placating the editors of German tabloids, the most likely outcome of the European debt crisis is that, after two years or so to allow French and German banks to build up loss reserves, the insolvent economies will be forced into some sort of bankruptcy.

    Make no mistake: while government defaults are almost the normal state of affairs in places like Greece and Argentina, for a country like Ireland that trades on its reputation as a safe place to do business, a bankruptcy would be catastrophic. Sovereign bankruptcies drag on for years as creditors hold out for better terms, or sell to so-called vulture funds that engage in endless litigation overseas to have national assets such as aircraft impounded in the hope that they can make a sufficient nuisance of themselves to be bought off.

    Worse still, a bankruptcy can do nothing to repair Ireland’s finances. Given the other commitments of the Irish State (to the banks, Nama, EU, ECB and IMF), for a bankruptcy to return government debt to a sustainable level, the holders of regular government bonds will have to be more or less wiped out. Unfortunately, most Irish government bonds are held by Irish banks and insurance companies.

    In other words, we have embarked on a futile game of passing the parcel of insolvency: first from the banks to the Irish State, and next from the State back to the banks and insurance companies. The eventual outcome will likely see Ireland as some sort of EU protectorate, Europe’s answer to Puerto Rico.

    Suppose that we did not want to follow our current path towards an ECB-directed bankruptcy and spiralling national ruin, is there anything we could do? While Prof Honohan sportingly threw away our best cards last September, there still is a way out that, while not painless, is considerably less painful than what Europe has in mind for us.

    National survival requires that Ireland walk away from the bailout. This in turn requires the Government to do two things: disengage from the banks, and bring its budget into balance immediately.

    First the banks. While the ECB does not want to rescue the Irish banks, it cannot let them collapse either and start a wave of panic that sweeps across Europe. So, every time one of you expresses your approval of the Irish banks by moving your savings to a foreign-owned bank, the Irish bank goes and replaces your money with emergency borrowing from the ECB or the Irish Central Bank. Their current borrowings are €160 billion.

    The original bailout plan was that the loan portfolios of Irish banks would be sold off to repay these borrowings. However, foreign banks know that many of these loans, mortgages especially, will eventually default, and were not interested. As a result, the ECB finds itself with the Irish banks wedged uncomfortably far up its fundament, and no way of dislodging them.

    This allows Ireland to walk away from the banking system by returning the Nama assets to the banks, and withdrawing its promissory notes in the banks. The ECB can then learn the basic economic truth that if you lend €160 billion to insolvent banks backed by an insolvent state, you are no longer a creditor: you are the owner. At some stage the ECB can take out an eraser and, where “Emergency Loan” is written in the accounts of Irish banks, write “Capital” instead. When it chooses to do so is its problem, not ours.

    At a stroke, the Irish Government can halve its debt to a survivable €110 billion. The ECB can do nothing to the Irish banks in retaliation without triggering a catastrophic panic in Spain and across the rest of Europe. The only way Europe can respond is by cutting off funding to the Irish Government.

    So the second strand of national survival is to bring the Government budget immediately into balance. The reason for governments to run deficits in recessions is to smooth out temporary dips in economic activity. However, our current slump is not temporary: Ireland bet everything that house prices would rise forever, and lost. To borrow so that senior civil servants like me can continue to enjoy salaries twice as much as our European counterparts makes no sense, macroeconomic or otherwise.

    Cutting Government borrowing to zero immediately is not painless but it is the only way of disentangling ourselves from the loan sharks who are intent on making an example of us. In contrast, the new Government’s current policy of lying on the ground with a begging bowl and hoping that someone takes pity on us does not make for a particularly strong negotiating position. By bringing our budget immediately into balance, we focus attention on the fact that Ireland’s problems stem almost entirely from the activities of six privately owned banks, while freeing ourselves to walk away from these poisonous institutions. Just as importantly, it sends a signal to the rest of the world that Ireland – which 20 years ago showed how a small country could drag itself out of poverty through the energy and hard work of its inhabitants, but has since fallen among thieves and their political fixers – is back and means business.

    Of course, we all know that this will never happen. Irish politicians are too used to being rewarded by Brussels to start fighting against it, even if it is a matter of national survival. It is easier to be led along blindfold until the noose is slipped around our necks and we are kicked through the trapdoor into bankruptcy.

    The destruction wrought by the bankruptcy will not just be economic but political. Just as the Lenihan bailout destroyed Fianna Fáil, so the Noonan bankruptcy will destroy Fine Gael and Labour, leaving them as reviled and mistrusted as their predecessors. And that will leave Ireland in the interesting situation where the economic crisis has chewed up and spat out all of the State’s constitutional parties. The last election was reassuringly dull and predictable but the next, after the trauma and chaos of the bankruptcy, will be anything but.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

  28. #238
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    awesome article, cracking read.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  29. #239
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    awesome article, cracking read.
    Morgan Kelly was calling them out ages ago so much that Bertie felt the need to say this



    Cos Morgan was saying things like this

    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

  30. #240
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The continuing battle against the inevitable Euro area default

    Interesting stuff, cheers.

    Morgan Kelly seems to be one to keep an eye out on.
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