Euro Area

[Tellos Athenaios]

No, sorry Tellos, it is for the British people to self-identify as European, not for the French to label us so. With the exception of a very specific sub-section of the educated Liberal elite people in Britain do not claim to be "Europeans", the identity is simply not something we engage with. If you speak to the welsh or Scots you will find that, excepting the nationalists, they are willing to be labled "British" because they recognise there isn't a lot of mileage in being "just Welsh".

even so, there are some, among the 600,000 Welsh in Wales in particular, who refuse to recognise the English as "British" and regularly and vocally demand a complete political seperation. They get the short end of the stick though because there are 50 million people in England who claim they are British and around 2 million in Wales who agree with them.

I'll try the simpler terms then. European is not just an identity. It is a convenient label to address the inhabitants of this fictitious place called Europe. What you or we feel about that has zero to do with how the term is used by others who want a quick way of addressing the whole of Europe. If in doubt about that, Megas or Vuk will be kind to spoon feed you another classification as “euro”.

It works both ways. The Egyptian protester has no particular feeling of sympathy with some Kenyan cousin, even if both will be indiscriminately referred to as African.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'll try the simpler terms then. European is not just an identity. It is a convenient label to address the inhabitants of this fictitious place called Europe. What you or we feel about that has zero to do with how the term is used by others who want a quick way of addressing the whole of Europe. If in doubt about that, Megas or Vuk will be kind to spoon feed you another classification as “euro”.

It works both ways. The Egyptian protester has no particular feeling of sympathy with some Kenyan cousin, even if both will be indiscriminately referred to as African.

Egypt isn't part of Africa though, remember? It's in a no-place between Africa and Asia!

Seriously though, that isn't a brilliant example.

Back to Europe:

You've used it in two seperate senses above, as a marker for someone who lives in a particular locale and as an identity. Loius is trying to impose the identity-based interpreation, and he has explicitely rejected the geographical one.

Geographically speaking the British Isles are on the periphary of Europe, and our history and culture reflect this. Britain has always looked into Euorpe, like the neighbour looking through your window via a telescope, we never look over our borders. Our closest neighbour is France, but we are seperate by a wide expanse of water, there is no borderland as there is between Germany and France, no meshing of cultures where our two peoples blend together. This is true even on the Channel Islands to a large extent.

This has led to a different way of looking at Europe, which is why British policy has, generally, been to support the losing side in a European war in order to maintain balance on the "mainland". Our direct involvement in European wars has also had a unique character to it.

It's interesting you bring up Megas - he refers to all white people as "Euro's" last I checked, regardless of where they live. Should Canada, Australia and the USA be part of "Europe" as well?

[Louis VI the Fat]

[Idaho]

[CENTER]

I'd love to see that, just to see the gin-swigging, net-curtain-twitching Tories of Merrie Englande fizz at the bunghole.

I'd like a few royals swinging by their necks from the balcony to really top it off though.

[Brenus]

“Geographically speaking the British Isles are on the periphary of Europe, and our history and culture reflect this. Britain has always looked into Euorpe, like the neighbour looking through your window via a telescope, we never look over our borders. Our closest neighbour is France, but we are seperated by a wide expanse of water, there is no borderland as there is between Germany and France, no meshing of cultures where our two peoples blend together. This is true even on the Channel Islands to a large extent.”

What a lot of err, mistakes…
The entire actual British new conservative mythological History in few sentences…
First, the seas (Baltic, North Sea, The Channel, Atlantic Ocean etc) around Europe were never fences but ways of trading and communication from the Greeks, Phoenicians, Viking, the Hanse and others traders and invaders.
You had more contact between Northern France and England (Holland, Denmark, Norway etc) during the Middle Ages than with Paris or Lyon thanks to the seas.
That is for the Geography.

As for history I suggest you to open books and to read them, especially the ones about Romans, Saxons, and Normans. Then you can carry on with the 100 Years war. The English were so far from Europe than their King felt he could claim the Throne of France (with some right if you believe the blood gave you right), claim abandoned only in 1802 (Treaty of Amiens)…
Then if England is sooooo far from Europe, why keeping Gibraltar?

As Culture, just check how much French words are in the English vocabulary?

And can you define “European Culture” for me please?
It would be useful what Culture in thrown upon you…

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

What a lot of err, mistakes…
The entire actual British new conservative mythological History in few sentences…
First, the seas (Baltic, North Sea, The Channel, Atlantic Ocean etc) around Europe were never fences but ways of trading and communication from the Greeks, Phoenicians, Viking, the Hanse and others traders and invaders.
You had more contact between Northern France and England (Holland, Denmark, Norway etc) during the Middle Ages than with Paris or Lyon thanks to the seas.
That is for the Geography.

The Sea may be a way of trading and communicating, but it is also a brarrier to the movement of people. The point is that the border between England and France is profoundly different from the border between France and Germany, and the key difference is the lack of "borderland".

As for history I suggest you to open books and to read them, especially the ones about Romans, Saxons, and Normans. Then you can carry on with the 100 Years war. The English were so far from Europe than their King felt he could claim the Throne of France (with some right if you believe the blood gave you right), claim abandoned only in 1802 (Treaty of Amiens)…

Well, the Romans left much less of a mark on Britain than anywhere else in the Western Empire, within a generation or two Latin culture had collapsed and the peasants still spoke the same language they had when the Romans first arrived. Compare this with their Gallic cousins, who all spoke vulgar Latin or a bastard form there of.The Saxons and the Normans are a different issue, but in the latter case English society became an aparteid, with an English Commons and a French ruling elite.

Why don't you try actually reading what I wrote, instead of insulting my education? I have not tried to claim that England or the UK is some for of cultural isolate, nor would I, but whatever this "European" thing is we do not wish to be included and you cannot force it upon us.

Then if England is sooooo far from Europe, why keeping Gibraltar?

Gibraltar is a Soverign State.

As Culture, just check how much French words are in the English vocabulary?

Check how many Latin words in French - oh wait, it's all Latin. See the difference?

And can you define “European Culture” for me please?
It would be useful what Culture in thrown upon you…

Actually I can't, which is another reason to object, ask Loius.

[Greyblades]

Gibraltar is a Soverign State.

Its also one heck of a strategic position, its the only entrance to the mediteranian for ships, save the suez canal, and a rather efficient choke point, he who owns gibraltar could filter almost all the shipping going in and out of the mediteranian.