Euro Area

[Adrian II]

Never been to Greece. Maybe what you say is inevitable for Greece, but don't expect me to be impressed by their "austerity".

I'm just back from a week in Athens and believe me, people there are totally desperate. While I was there yet another new property tax was introduced, plus a ruling that families with a yearly income of 5000 euro or above should pay additional income tax as well. Some shop owner or enterpreneur is committing suicide every week because he lost the family business. I had a restaurant owner in Thessaloniki crying at my table because he couldn't afford any staff anymore and had to cook, serve and clean his establishment of 16 tables all by himself every day of the week. Whole streets in Athens that used to be hubs of entertainment only a couple of years ago are now deserted, the shops and restaurants closed, the shutters down for good, many buildings battened down with a few planks and strokes of cardboard, angry graffiti all over the centre of town, beggars and cranks of all descriptions roaming the streets at night. Pretty soon all of Athens is going to look like Omonia. Man, what a way to run a country.

AII

[phonicsmonkey]

Man, what a way to run a country.

AII

The IMF are really good at doing this to countries.

[InsaneApache]

The IMF politicians are really good at doing this to countries.

Fixed.

[Papewaio]

When you have surplus you help the weak and bump up welfare.

When you have a debt you tighten welfare and encourage growth.

Increasin income tax is not austerity it's the wrong side of the budget.

[Beskar]

When you have surplus you help the weak and bump up welfare.

When you have a debt you tighten welfare and encourage growth.

Increasin income tax is not austerity it's the wrong side of the budget.

Exactly, but it is more confounded by the fact they don't have the money for the Welfare and so raises taxes which ends up putting more people on Welfare, which raises taxes again... Fail Economies.

Being honest, the problem with the "Bail Out" is that it isn't actually a "Bail Out". A "Bail Out" would imply we were actually giving them money. We are not. We are simply lending them money so they are still in debt anyway, just a different debtor.

[Nowake]

If you'll allow me to jump in for a moment, the issue with restructuring Greece's debt right now can be found in the rigidity of its european partners.

And while you cannot always agree with Roubini, I've to recommend his latest article: Eight drastic policy measures necessary to prevent global economic collapse

Also, there was this analysis in zerohedge two-three weeks ago on the slightly desperate report assessing the Eurozone put out by UBS (Euro Break Up - The Consequences): Bring out your dead -- you can find the whole UBS report enclosed at the end of the article.

[Adrian II]

If you'll allow me to jump in for a moment, the issue with restructuring Greece's debt right now can be found in the rigidity of its european partners.

Indeed, and this (ideological) rigidity is ensconced in the EU institutions. Take for instance Roubini's recommendation that "The European Central Bank should reverse its mistaken decision to hike interest rates". That might be a sensible thing to do, but the ECB's statutory mission is to guarantee "price stability" before everything else.

AII

[Furunculus]

The IMF are really good at doing this to countries.

IA is quite correct; politicians are responsible for dragging the countries down the p00p-hole, and if they want help afterwards it comes with the lenders conditions attached.

The lender wants their money back, with interest, so those conditions attached quite rightly include reforms that will drag the country back out of the p00p-hole.

[Adrian II]

IA is quite correct; politicians are responsible for dragging the countries down the p00p-hole, and if they want help afterwards it comes with the lenders conditions attached.

The lender wants their money back, with interest, so those conditions attached quite rightly include reforms that will drag the country back out of the p00p-hole.

Athens is not going to wait for two years until they have their next national election. Nor is the island Crete. And those two are the main political powerhouses of Greece. There is going to be blood in the streets, I fear. I was very depressed when I left, I must say. I love Greece with all my heart, I love their chaos, their pride, their hospitality, their landscape and sea, their food, their music, I love the way people wear their hearts on their sleeves and I love the fact that Greeks are such tough cookies, always have been. But this is going to end badly. And everybody knows. Taxi drivers, civil servants, shop owners, pensioners, mothers taking their kids to school - they all say the same thing: "It takes only this (they snap their finger) to happen and we burn down our whole parliament with the politicians in it."



AII

[Fragony]

They should do that really, it ain't their fault.

[gaelic cowboy]

It's the little things that tell you when things are bad now, like it takes 14hrs to fly Dublin to Greece due to a lack of any meaningful business or tourism contacts between the two.

[Adrian II]

It's the little things that tell you when things are bad now, like it takes 14hrs to fly Dublin to Greece due to a lack of any meaningful business or tourism contacts between the two.

Plus you always need a Plan B because there are massive strikes all the time. One day it's the taxi's, the next day it's all public transport, the day after that it's restaurant owners. And so on, like a relay race.

AII

[Furunculus]

Athens is not going to wait for two years until they have their next national election. Nor is the island Crete. And those two are the main political powerhouses of Greece. There is going to be blood in the streets, I fear. I was very depressed when I left, I must say. I love Greece with all my heart, I love their chaos, their pride, their hospitality, their landscape and sea, their food, their music, I love the way people wear their hearts on their sleeves and I love the fact that Greeks are such tough cookies, always have been. But this is going to end badly. And everybody knows. Taxi drivers, civil servants, shop owners, pensioners, mothers taking their kids to school - they all say the same thing: "It takes only this (they snap their finger) to happen and we burn down our whole parliament with the politicians in it."



AII

nothing you have said i disagree with, and it is very sad, but none of the above seems incompatible with what i said above.