That are just ruins
That are just ruins
It's a street just off Athinas Boulevard, the area where Greeks used to do their utility shopping, from food to pets to kitchenware to DIY tools and everything in between. The district is now dead. The only lively part I found left is Venizelou and the student quarter. The bars, the bookshops and restaurants are still buzzing and the gorgeous, arrogant 21-year-old girls are still out in force there.
AII
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
Well there you go: Arrogance.
What's this about the money lenders saying the austerity measures have gone too far?
It strengthens my position that the Greek government is responsible for this mess. Greece has a democratic government, therefore it is a problem with the people, the culture, or (likely) both.
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pintenOriginally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
Down with dried flowers!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Yes, the political system is out-dated and corrupt, it is now in disarray, but neither the ruling PASOK (160 of 300 seats) nor the main opposition party ND (91 seats) is willing to change it because their political and personal interests are bound up with it.
Probably sounds familiar to an American, huh?
AII
Last edited by Adrian II; 10-05-2011 at 16:04.
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
Oh yea. There's a huge problem with governments becoming vested in failing systems. That's why a little revolution now and then is a good thing. Western (U.S. and many European) governments and economies are coming to the end of the postwar era. America's economy was based on a shattered European economy. Many of Europe's governments have their roots in the aftermath of the war.
Hopefully it won't take another war to sort things out.
Sorry. I'm not being too helpful, am I?
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pintenOriginally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
Down with dried flowers!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Gee Greece buys 400 M1A1 Abrams tanks and 20 AAV7A1's. Another reason why we aren't getting our money back
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pintenOriginally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
Down with dried flowers!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Turkish Thrace.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.
"The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."
http://euobserver.com/13/113821The Greek armed forces now appear to be entering the political and street-level debate in the country over EU- and IMF-imposed austerity, with a group of retired Greek officers storming the defence ministry and the armed forces’ professional organisation issuing a stern warning to the government that the military’s confidence in the “intentions of the state” regarding their pensions has been “shaken”.
There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.
"The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."
So how will the EU handle a military junta attacking a democratically elected member state?
What is the penalty to the junta members? Complete annihilation and seizure of all assets? Or will the penalty be soninadequate to make military coup an attractive option?
Does the EU have the ability and intestinal fortitude to deal with a member state coup?
Is there anything written in the EU documents to cover such a situation?
Australia's federal model used the American Civil war as a test case so that the Australian Consitution spells out that once a nation joins to become a State it cannot leave by law. Also State power is moderated to avoid such an issue.
So my question is did the EU frame the exit policy at the start with foresight or is it a matter of make it up as they go along and ignore all lessons learnt by other nations who have fused (UK,USA etc)?
This - failure was not to be contemplated!
In the CFA institute journal for July/August the point was made that the theory of optimum currency areas (Mundell, 1961) states that it is in the interests of a group of nations to form a currency union if and only if the mobility of the factors of production (labour and capital) within the proposed union is greater than the mobility without. This is to provide the economic flexibility to offset the loss of the ability for the individual nations' currencies to fluctuate.
For a number of reasons that doesn't hold (and has never held) in the case of the Euro, and that situation has worsened since 2008 with capital being effectively nationalised. Hence the current crisis is almost unavoidable with economic imbalances arising, worsened by irresponsible fiscal decision-making.
frogbeastegg's TWS2 guide....it's here!
Come to the Throne Room to play multiplayer hotseat campaigns and RPGs in M2TW.
'So how will the EU handle a military junta attacking a democratically elected member state?'
As always, MOAR POWER TO BRUSSELS
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
If the junta is like a lot of prior juntas think they know best and form a coup.
a) What is the EUs policy? Do they have one?
Basic Business 101 is you build your exit clause at the start even more so if you are forming a partnership.
b). Considering the mixed success of Libya does the EU even have the capacity to effectively stop a coup in Greece?
C). If left to their own devices is the EU prepared for Greece realigning itself with another sphere of powers or worse becomming to the EU what Chechnya is to Russia? After all if a murdering junta came to power in my country because of the policies and then lack of action by outside powers I would expect to see a rise in terrorists going into the nations responsible.
I think you a suffering from a recurrence of EUness. It CAN happen, we should make sure it doesn't. The Generals may simply conclude that the restoration of the Drachma is the only sane course and the politicians are refusing to do it for purely political reasons.
Of course, only one country has the tanks to fight an actual land war in Europe right now, and they won't challenge Greek generals directly, so if it does happen it will be hard to undo.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
there is no exit policy from the euro, but there is an exit policy from the EU as per the Lisbon Treaty.
this is why europhiles FUD to the max when the reject the idea of Greece leaving the eurozone, suggesting that it would mean exit from the EU itself.
this is utter tosh, for as has been demonstrated time after time with the euro-crisis, whenever there is a problem with the rules they show ZERO compunction about tearing them up and creating new ones.
Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar
It's the definition of insanity, trying the exact same thing over and over again yet expecting different results. You just can't organise Europe it is simply impossible. There is going to be bloodshed in Croatia very soon, I'm gettiing bottled water and beans in tomatoe-sause as this is going to hurt. And if it doesn't I'll have it anyway
I think that no Greek officer will want to take responsibility for the present mess, it's as simple as that. Besides, no one outside Greece will support, encourage even suffer a coup, contrary to 1967.
Of course if public order in Greece breaks down completely the army may appear on the streets, though with what mission or mandate remains to be seen.
If a coup takes place I think Greece will be suspended from or kicked out of the EU.
AII
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
Has anyone considered that the coup were convinced cant happen may do so because the army refuse to put down austerity protests.
That would put them on the side of the people against the government and crucially in control.
Last edited by gaelic cowboy; 10-07-2011 at 16:19.
They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.
Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy
Hmm how did WWII start... something about over zealous monetary measures slapped on the losing party making their economy collapse.
I don't see Greece rising like an economic phoneix invading the rest of Europe.
But I do see the potential to create with billions of dollars poorly invested and mean spirit a failed state... at least the US went and got Iraq and Afghanistan off the shelf at a much cheaper price.
But, if there is a publically supported coup, with the army and people uniting against the corrupt politicians, should we not welocme that as we have in Tunisia, Libya and Egypt?
Life is not so simple any more, and the likelyhood of a coup rises with each further twist of the screws on collective Greek thumbs.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
All in the name of integration. Bastards.
There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.
"The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."
Bookmarks