Euro Area

[Furunculus]

A senior EU official said even Germany's Social Democrats are cooling on eurobonds. "They looked at the polling data and shivered. The German people are not willing to send money into a bottomless pit,"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...contracts.html

[Fragony]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...contracts.html

It would cost Germany and the Netherlands their tripple a status if we go for that. What does biggest supporter do, France lowers the retirement age when it should go up. Having to pay for the socialism, people are really fed up with it over here. Letting the socialism feed upon itself is an increasingly common thought here

[gaelic cowboy]

It would cost Germany and the Netherlands their tripple a status if we go for that. What does biggest supporter do, France lowers the retirement age when it should go up. Having to pay for the socialism, people are really fed up with it over here. Letting the socialism feed upon itself is an increasingly common thought here

Hmm time for an all night summit where we agree to another summit later on, then everyone can vote the Irish can vote on a new treaty that ignores the actual problem.

Yes worrying about a budget deficit in Austria, France or wherever else you care to mention will solve banks runs in Spain, Italy or Cyprus.



edit

'Risk premium' shows Spain locked out of markets: minister

We are these clowns have let Spain fall off a cliff they dont have enough money to bail her out, bailin knockout.

G7 to hold emergency euro zone talks, Spain top concern

This thing could actually go down now for it will only take one wrong step or press leak, I never in my wildest dreams believed they actually would let this happen. Foolishly I thought they actually were fearful of a eurogeddon collapse, hell it is like refusing to evacuate when a row of terraced house catches fire.

Are we even on the same planet as these people.

[Brenus]

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Do you mean e.g. 9 Austerity Plans for Greece and an even bigger debt than when it all started?

"France lowers the retirement age when it should go up" Why it should go up?" To kill people before retirement as it is happening in the 8 European Countries that just did it? That is a solution to resolve the pension, I grant you this. But for the youth unemployment, I doubt.
Of course 6 on 10 of the + 60 are yet out of job due to illness and employment. So to postpone retirement is just done in order to cut on cost, not because "we live longer so we have to work longer". Welcome in the Liberal? Capitalist Financial world where Profits trump Humans.
We lived longer because we stop to work earlier but apparently it is not allowed to live old and Healthy for the average person.

[Fragony]

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Do you mean e.g. 9 Austerity Plans for Greece and an even bigger debt than when it all started?

"France lowers the retirement age when it should go up" Why it should go up?" To kill people before retirement as it is happening in the 8 European Countries that just did it? That is a solution to resolve the pension, I grant you this. But for the youth unemployment, I doubt.
Of course 6 on 10 of the + 60 are yet out of job due to illness and employment. So to postpone retirement is just done in order to cut on cost, not because "we live longer so we have to work longer". Welcome in the Liberal? Capitalist Financial world where Profits trump Humans.
We lived longer because we stop to work earlier but apparently it is not allowed to live old and Healthy for the average person.

Face your new reality mia muca the fat days are over and it's going to hurt really badly if you expect anything from the government, they don't have the money anymore. So you better work a little harder, better accept that you will be working for a longer time, and better accept that you are screwed anyway and might just have to fight for your life.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Do you mean e.g. 9 Austerity Plans for Greece and an even bigger debt than when it all started?

Well yes, but that also applies to "borrow to pay for everything and it won't cause a debt crisis."

"France lowers the retirement age when it should go up" Why it should go up?" To kill people before retirement as it is happening in the 8 European Countries that just did it? That is a solution to resolve the pension, I grant you this. But for the youth unemployment, I doubt.
Of course 6 on 10 of the + 60 are yet out of job due to illness and employment. So to postpone retirement is just done in order to cut on cost, not because "we live longer so we have to work longer". Welcome in the Liberal? Capitalist Financial world where Profits trump Humans.
We lived longer because we stop to work earlier but apparently it is not allowed to live old and Healthy for the average person.

When people often live to 100 a retirement age of 60 means those people spend 60% of their lives on welfare as either juvaniles or pensioners. A retirement age of 70 makes that 50%.

Not everybody lives to retirement - some people have heart attack at 50 or die of cancer at 20, drawing your pension is not an automatic right. The pension is just there to support you once you can no longer support yourself and most people CAN still support themselves at 70, and certainly at 65.

[rory_20_uk]

Life expectancy has shot up (note suppressed zero).



And the state is spending more and more on the Welfare state. Oddly, there is not a massive upswing under Labour and a savage cut under the Conservatives. There is just a rise (barring predicted figures for the next 3 years where we shoot down to levels of suffering not seen since 2008 - possibly even before!)

[Brenus]

“Also heard that Greece is expected to leave the Euro after the June 17 elections.” Yeah, heard that as well. The problem is of course nobody explains how. All these experts just forget one little useless thing: There is no provision in the Lisbon Treaty to oblige Greece to do so. That will be fun. So Greece can cancel all payments of the debt and still be part of the Euro. What the banks will do about it? Do you think negotiation will start? I do. Because if Greece defaults, the German and French banking system will collapse, then the Euro collapse then Europe collapse, then USA collapse.
And to whom the Chinese will sell the I-pad and I-phone and others I? Not to their workers, not paid enough… That is the beauty of it…

“Face your new reality mia muca the fat days are over and it's going to hurt really badly if you expect anything from the government, they don't have the money anymore.”
Of course that is not the reality, darling. That is ideology, capitalistic one. Never our countries were so rich and produce more. It is time to land, love. The poor riches will have to give back some of the bonuses, shame… The Governments have no money because they gave it to their Friends exemption to pay taxes and Fiscal Evasion. Strong with the weak and weak with the Strong... I give you it is easier to bully handicapped on their wheelchair than Millionaires... Just a question of courage...
Obviously, riches created no job at all (see Greece). So, a re-think will be done. Old IMF and banksters solutions didn’t work and never did…

“So you better work a little harder, better accept that you will be working for a longer time, and better accept that you are screwed anyway and might just have to fight for your life.” Tell the Riches. They might think it is time to stop the greed culture… They might have to leave countries and fight for their lives… They never did really, work I mean…

“I have no idea what can save the garliczone from becoming a nightmare”:
Quite easy: ECB become equivalent of the Federal Bank, give loans to Greece (between 2 to 4 % of EU GDP) and other States at 1 % (like for Private Banks), this stop all speculation. Negotiate with proper concern and not greed for recovery and not short term profit. Put the responsible for the mess (Capitalistic Banksters and their Politician accomplices) in jail for thievery, robbery and all charges you can find.
Put more democracy in the EU (hard but not impossible).

“The pension is just there to support you once you can no longer support yourself and most people CAN still support themselves at 70, and certainly at 65.” That is funny because European Statistic tells exactly the opposite. I repeat: 6 of 10 over 60 (and probably 55 for the less qualified) are out of job for health or unemployment.
The same tells that in Germany the life expectation in going down for the first time in history. And surprise, it is true in all countries that made people works longer (so be in jobless subsidies that are less than pensions). So less food, less access to health care, choices between heating and heating, increase in suicide, welcome in the Civilisation…

[rory_20_uk]

“The pension is just there to support you once you can no longer support yourself and most people CAN still support themselves at 70, and certainly at 65.” That is funny because European Statistic tells exactly the opposite. I repeat: 6 of 10 over 60 (and probably 55 for the less qualified) are out of job for health or unemployment.
The same tells that in Germany the life expectation in going down for the first time in history. And surprise, it is true in all countries that made people works longer (so be in jobless subsidies that are less than pensions). So less food, less access to health care, choices between heating and heating, increase in suicide, welcome in the Civilisation…

What is the rate in countries where there is not unemployment benefit / health benefit or pension? Otherwise is it people are unable to work or view than on balance they'd rather not and take the money.

And you are assuming that firstly that increasing life expectancy year on year is just to be expected, and secondly that the sole cause is working longer, not any other of the myriad health related problems.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

“The pension is just there to support you once you can no longer support yourself and most people CAN still support themselves at 70, and certainly at 65.” That is funny because European Statistic tells exactly the opposite. I repeat: 6 of 10 over 60 (and probably 55 for the less qualified) are out of job for health or unemployment.
The same tells that in Germany the life expectation in going down for the first time in history. And surprise, it is true in all countries that made people works longer (so be in jobless subsidies that are less than pensions). So less food, less access to health care, choices between heating and heating, increase in suicide, welcome in the Civilisation…

Oh piffle.

My Grandfather worked until 70, Grandmother likewise - my father is still working at 61...

6 out of 10 over sixties are not out of work here - it's not an age issue it's a cultural issue, or a general health issue. The suggestion that people become uselss at 60 because they are not longer able to work is not only absurd but also offensive and docially divisive.

There are plenty of times throughout history when life expectancy has gone down, the industrial era for example, so don't pull that one.

German life expectancy has risen rapidly since 1972, a recent drop in the last few years therefore means little.

Graph: http://www.google.co.uk/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_le00_in&idim=country:DEU&dl=en&hl=en&q=germany+life+expectanc y#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=sp_dyn_le00_in&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim= country:DEU&ifdim=region&tstart=-302144400000&tend=1244156400000&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false

France Graph: http://www.google.co.uk/publicdata/e...l=en&ind=false

How long, on average, should people draw a pension from the stae for?

ten years? Fifteen? If the latter answer, then France's pension age should rise to 66, if the former, 71.

[Vladimir]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...contracts.html

Really? I heard on the drive to work that they will pay for everyone, including Spain, partially by redistributing the debt. I suppose the EU is now a Marxist wet dream.

Also heard that Greece is expected to leave the Euro after the June 17 elections.

[gaelic cowboy]

Really? I heard on the drive to work that they will pay for everyone, including Spain, partially by redistributing the debt. I suppose the EU is now a Marxist wet dream.

Also heard that Greece is expected to leave the Euro after the June 17 elections.

I expect the reply to redistribution of debt will be something along the lines of "Get Stuffed" or whatever the equivalent is in German.

They cant afford to bailout Spain and they cannot help the Spainish banks unless they bailout Spain.

Course it would be simpler if people just admitted these banks are broke and there never paying back the debt.

Unless the ECB/ESM/EFSF is allowed to stuff as much monopoly money down every eurozone bank as required this only ends in "I Told You So"

[Fragony]

I expect the reply to redistribution of debt will be something along the lines of "Get Stuffed" or whatever the equivalent is in German.

They cant afford to bailout Spain and they cannot help the Spainish banks unless they bailout Spain.

Course it would be simpler if people just admitted these banks are broke and there never paying back the debt.

Unless the ECB/ESM/EFSF is allowed to stuff as much monopoly money down every eurozone bank as required this only ends in "I Told You So"

And than what, Spain is old sick and nearly dead just like all of the Mediteranian. Their youths are comming here because we do have jobs for them, it is bleedin to death. I have no idea what can save the garliczone from becomming a nightmare.

[gaelic cowboy]

And than what, Spain is old sick and nearly dead just like all of the Mediteranian. Their youths are comming here because we do have jobs for them, it is bleedin to death. I have no idea what can save the garliczone from becomming a nightmare.

The question of "And then what" makes no sense if you think about it for a second because recessions End eventually Frag.

[Fragony]

The question of "And then what" makes no sense if you think about it for a second because recessions End eventually Frag.

Not if we also have to finance multiculture, that burden wasn't there in past recoveries. There are too many mouths to feed there are too many people who don't add anything. It cannot be sustained in the end. Once the shops won't get the deliveries anymore there will be trouble and it's unrealistic that the aging population of the garlic zone can do anything to prevent that. I think this is just the beginning and that we have yet to see how nasty it can get.

[gaelic cowboy]

Not if we also have to finance multiculture, that burden wasn't there in past recoveries. There are too many mouths to feed there are too many people who don't add anything. It cannot be sustained in the end. Once the shops won't get the deliveries anymore there will be trouble and it's unrealistic that the aging population of the garlic zone can do anything to prevent that. I think this is just the beginning and that we have yet to see how nasty it can get.

Well yes it could get very bad when the Bratwurstzone gets even older and keeps demanding the younger South keep chopping it's garlic in half.

[Greyblades]

Welp its a good thing that us Brits have a good fallback of reopening the coal mines again, generatinng new jobs and an exportable resource at the same time. Oh wait, conservative govenment, nevermind, pass the suicide pistol.

I've been given a new viewpoint on the current social econimic system and I currently think it makes my viewpoint better than everything else, sue me.

[rory_20_uk]

And than what, Spain is old sick and nearly dead just like all of the Mediteranian. Their youths are comming here because we do have jobs for them, it is bleedin to death. I have no idea what can save the garliczone from becomming a nightmare.

The "nightmare" that they live is with a health service that over 90% of the population don't have, wages multiples greater than the world average and labour laws that are vastly better than most. They also get state pensions and unemployment benefit again things that are unheard of in many countries.

Theoretically, getting back up is simple - reduction in standards of living due to reduced state aid, reduced salaries and a reduced social safety net. Work longer for less and work will quickly come. Does anyone want that? Of course not! We all want to earn more as we get older, to give our children more, to live longer in nicer conditions. We are, frankly, spoilt.

In other parts of the world working a 12 hour shift on a landfill site is a job for literally the whole family. Collecting human waste as fertiliser to sell? Yup, that's done. Others people collect sulphur out of a volcano. Sure, the fumes will fry their lungs in a matter of years ( a wet cloth only does so much) but their alternative is to starve to death now.