Rebel infestation for Poland :help:

[sharpshooter]

M2TW Gold vhd/vhd Poland Short campaign (eliminate Hungary and Russia)

Any solutions to a rebel infestation?

In the conquered far east each turn a one or two rebel armies appear anywhere from Bulgar to Halych. It might be a stack of 9 or 7, or a couple of small armies (2 - 5). These are militia/peasant rebels, and sometimes there's a general. This has been going for around 30 turns.

It's costing a fortune. Two rebel armies appeared in Riga, one on the port road and one on the road south. Income dropped from 2400 per turn to 1100. I have 3 half stack armies in the field to deal with them, and they do nothing but trudge from one side of the map to the other knocking the rebels out (with an upkeep cost of around 1600 each stack per turn).

Each territory has a priest, and catholicism is in the 90's (100% for Halych and Iasi). All castles are upgraded to fortress except Sarkel, which hasn't reached it yet. Roads are paved. I have 5 family member generals in the area. Any stacks without a family member turn rebel almost immediately, including one with 3 Polish Nobles.

There are no foreign agents on the steppes.

I tried leaving them for a while, but the rebels kept multiplying. One general with the Moscow army took down a 9 unit rebel army on the Bulgar border, only for another rebel army to appear just outside Moscow the next turn. The first thing I do each turn is scan the area to pick up the new rebel army.

The rebels appear whether there's a 7 unit garrison or 2 units.

At the same time, as I've increased my unit numbers in the east the drinker trait has come to the fore, indicating to me that troop numbers are too high.

Incidentally, this campaign seems anything but short (now on turn 100, and no end in sight). Poland eliminated Russia early, and was immediately invaded by the HRE and the Danes. This slowed the attack on Hungary, along with steady Papal intervention, although the Danes and HRE are all but gone.

Once Hungary was reduced to 2 provinces (Vienna and Sofia) a crusade was called, and lo and behold, the Hungarian army took Jerusalem, and later Damascus. There they sit happily while the Mongols, Egyptians and Turks conduct a 3 cornered fight all around them, crossing their lands but not fighting them. Now only Sofia remains in Europe, waiting for the expiration of a Papal threat of excommunication. However, there are obviously logistical problems in getting an army to Jerusalem, and the Mongols and Egyptians have huge fleets in the eastern Med.

France is huge, with big top end armies, all of northern Italy, and with Venice as a vassal (incidentally Venice is a Polish ally). A thin line of Danes (Bruges and Antwerp) the HRE and Venice buffers Poland from them, but their diplomats, princesses and merchants roam Polish lands.

Meanwhile the rebels continue. Also, Scottish rebel pirate ships invade the Baltic.

There is a rebel fleet in the sea between Finland and Novgorod. I can't hire ships for this space, nothing can attack it, and Diplomats can't speak to it. Any ideas on how to get rid of those?

Anyway, I'd welcome any ideas on dealing with the rebels in the former Russia/steppes. I've considered abandoning Bulgar and Sarkel, and just concentrating on the economically or strategically important areas.

[PrestigeX]

Sometimes the game just does that , what I'd recommend is that you make a "homeguard" type of army ..Use a family member - maybe the faction heir or someone to help give him practice? it can be some of your leftover forces from earlier campaigns - like leftover mail knights that don't have the upgrades of sword/armor that you might be currently using... ANd some cheaper units too fill it out. Then it's job can be simply to stay put at home and deal with these rebels, not to mention to stay put incase you get attacked from a neighbour you didn't expect to fight.

It depends on your playing style, but personally I like to keep maybe 1 or 2 fronts and send proper full or near full armies towards the frontier as it were. My home settlements usually just keep upto the 'free upkeep limit' and maybe a governor. That is why I recommend keeping a home guard army, full stack or nearly so instead of having to pay for each settlement to have a large garrison you just keep an army at home within range of a few settlements =). With cheaper units , but still capable. Say ... 8 spear militia hopefully with some armor on, 4 peasant/militia archers, some cav militia or leftover lower tech cav... as poland prolly Stretzky or Polish Nobles. ... whatever you want just make it a balanced force not just totally junk. Leave some space open at the end to get mercenaries if you have to fight a much stronger enemy , get some Frankish knights or crossbow mercs --- crossbow mercs are my fave crossbow unit in the whole game lol! they rock!

That's all I'd recommend. I think mostly in Vanilla it doesn't even matter with rebels, but sometimes in some of the mods I play rebels will even siege your cities with a full stack...

[sharpshooter]

Yeah, I like the mercenary xbow units too. I get the pavise ones when they become available later.

Hmm ... yes, I take your point about keeping an army at home, and that's what I usually do.

But, there are so many I really do need several armies to cover Russia. This rebellion seems to have gone out of control, and it's now continued for around 50 turns. I have 5 armies there, and the rebels have dominated the campaign.

If you're interested enough take a look at this screenshot. The general has come out of Bulgar with a couple of Polish retainers to tackle a 4 unit rebel archer army (2 moves there and 2 moves back). The next turn (126) a 6 unit rebel army appears between him and the target 4 unit one, and behind him appears a 9 unit stack of rebels. He needs reinforcements to deal with the 6 unit, let alone the 9 unit. Altogether this is about 6 - 8 moves to settle, with extra troops, or a longer turn to bring up reinforcements.

Bulgar rebels turn 126
https://img801.imageshack.us/img801/...lgarrebels.jpg

While this is happening the VERY NEXT TURN (127) 2 new stacks and a couple of 2 unit rebels appear. One is a 6 unit in Riga and full of viking raiders:

Riga rebels - turn 127
https://img573.imageshack.us/img573/...rigarebels.jpg

(A nearby diplomat tries to bribe them. You can see behind the diplomat the smudge/devastation from a 9 unit stack brought down 2 turns before).

Meanwhile, another 9 unit stack appears just outside Moscow, where a militia army is fortunately garrisoned.

Moscow rebels - turn 127
https://img375.imageshack.us/img375/...scowrebels.jpg

You can see from the shots that even 3 armies covering a region each couldn't deal with this. There are militia in every town and cavalry in every castle. Combined they could take out any faction I'm facing.

Altogether there are 7 rebel armies, ranging from 2 unit to 9 unit that have appeared in the last 2 rounds in Russia. They are also appearing less frequently and smaller sizes in northern Europe (Sweden to Budapest). This is continuous - really, I spend more of the campaign dealing with rebels than fighting other factions. I'd have to say by now it's not amusing, and I really have tried to treat it as a puzzle with a solution, but there doesn't seem to be one.

I did try leaving it, but the rebels kept coming and the trade loss was really hurting.

I'd like to see rebels acting like a faction. They did that sometimes in M1TW, and could wipe out your faction. M1TW also had "returns" where a loyalist rebel army of several stacks would appear in low loyalty province that was formerly theirs with a king. It had the smack of realism, and was a part of that game.

I really wouldn't mind a major rebellion that could be put down. This however is simply continuous - it's more than 50 turns now, with up to 5 rebel armies appearing each turn. I've been on the verge of abandoning this campaign several times. It's obviously some kind of developer script running to control it, and I'm still hoping it's a puzzle with a solution. (I have priests, spies, diplomats, assassins, a governor and half stack armies in every province. Cavalry armies fly from town to castle to join local foot soldier garrisons. Most provinces are now 100% catholic. Relations with the Pope are perfect - I've been building cathedrals. I even put together an army and took out rebel Iraklion, since I'd seen it act like a faction capital in M1TW. There was a cheat that allowed you to view map, including agents, and rebel Iraklion/Crete was pouring out spies, assassins and rebel fleets. Fascinating - not to mention watching the HRE and Byz assassinating priests and all).

Anyways, thanks for the response. I want to finish the campaign, and am now concentrating on Hungary, which has expanded from Jerusalem to knock out the Egyptians. In this context Iraklion is useful, and it's a shame my alliance with the Byz stops me taking Cyprus :D

[PrestigeX]

I see what you mean with regard to the pictures, it is a bit of an oddity I must say. I noticed from most of the games I've played that rebels or revolts happen a lot more in certain regions = jerusalem/antioch/damascus, the moorish homeland, antwerp/bruges, southern england (just lots of brigands), novgorod can revolt quite a bit too.

I usually prefer to occupy conquered settlements, but I think when you are far away from your capital or in a region with different culture/religion it can be wise to sack or even exterminate the population. If a city is a low earner, it could be good to convert into a castle since they always have a higher public order.

It is annoying to see rebels in your provinces, but if they aren't blocking any important routes or right outside your settlement you can probably leave them be. Definantly though, rebels were more prominent in the first MTW