Scientists, masters of the world part deux?

**Tellos Athenaios** · 12-01-2010, 23:37

I seem to recall that Beskar's last thread on this ended with a question about how science might explain events before the Big Bang in order to explain the Big Bang itself. (Related to the question/belief whether there is a God or not.)

Well, work is being done to make that explanation happen. As always this is highly involved and possibly quite speculative stuff -- way beyond what I grasp. For those who are interested: http://arxiv.org/abs/1011.3706

**gaelic cowboy** · 12-02-2010, 00:32

So those old myths of the universe being carried on the back of a turtle might have a modern correlation. The universe had something before it just like the turtle was before the universe in the myth

**Vladimir** · 12-02-2010, 00:36

I'll let Stargate Universe figure it out for me.

**gaelic cowboy** · 12-02-2010, 00:39

Originally Posted by Vladimir

I'll let Stargate Universe figure it out for me.

there isnt enough alien baddies in that show it's more like DawsonsHousewives in Space

**Vladimir** · 12-02-2010, 04:44

Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

there isnt enough alien baddies in that show it's more like DawsonsHousewives in Space

Yes but they're exploring the same mystery. They'll solve it long before real scientists do.

Plus, macabre is my thing.

**A Nerd** · 12-02-2010, 19:59

I didn't quite understand the article, I found it confusing. If I read it correctly, did it not state black hole convergance providing the big bang? Anyway, if that is the case (if not ignore this) wouldn't they have to be the result of some older universe existing and over time collecting in said black holes? Perhaps our universe will suffer the same fate one day. Also, these black holes (if defined as such) could have been vacuumes of another galaxy, ie. black holes connecting two universes. The substance of one, sucked into said holes there and the exploded out into what became our universe due to convergance or the like. So ours, sucked into black holes in this universe, will explode into another on some connected plane when the openings converge. A sort on liner cycle of universe birth and rebirth. Our substance, our life, sucked up some day in the far distant future, to be recycled and reused in a parallel universe. Sort of gives rise to the infinity of time and life never ending if you believe in such things. I do anyway. I just wonder where the substance that black holes suck up here and there go before they converge. Sounds like a crazy sci-fi adventure, where is a brave Captain Kirk investigator/explorer type when you need one?

**Papewaio** · 12-02-2010, 21:20

Originally Posted by A Nerd

The substance of one, sucked into said holes there and the exploded out into what became our universe due to convergance or the like. So ours, sucked into black holes in this universe, will explode into another on some connected plane when the openings converge.

* Barry White music *

I know astronomy has always involved the study of heavenly bodies, but this sounds so much more like sedimentary sciences.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 12-02-2010, 22:29

Black hole encounters. I don't know what to make of that: existence of black holes or black holes collapsing into each other?

**Tellos Athenaios** · 12-02-2010, 22:35

Originally Posted by A Nerd

I didn't quite understand the article, I found it confusing. If I read it correctly, did it not state black hole convergance providing the big bang? Anyway, if that is the case (if not ignore this) wouldn't they have to be the result of some older universe existing and over time collecting in said black holes?

Not an astrophysics student, but I thought CCC referred to the contraction-expansion cycle theory. So yes there would've been a universe before ours to collapse and spawn ours.

**Papewaio** · 12-03-2010, 10:12

One of the ideas of the big bang is that all laws of physics were created at the start. And that as time is one of these, no time existed before then.

The ring patterns indicate at least two potential things:
a) That there was more symmetry in the big bang then thought and/or a series of pulses that occured at the start.
b) That we can see before the big bang to prior universes... which has a whole plethora of implications... one of which is that our universe laws may be applicable to other ones. Has implications on entropy and information retention for starters.

**A Nerd** · 12-03-2010, 21:58

* Barry White music *

I know astronomy has always involved the study of heavenly bodies, but this sounds so much more like sedimentary sciences.

You have confused me...

One of the ideas of the big bang is that all laws of physics were created at the start. And that as time is one of these, no time existed before then.

These are the views of men who are the result of and the finest creation of the beginning of time, in my opinion. According to them, time could never exist unless they were aware of it. Quite pompous! I find that there is more to time and its existance than mans perception of it, and his existance within.

So yes there would've been a universe before ours to collapse and spawn ours.

I suppose one would have to know what lies within and thru a black hole to truly be sure. I believe matter passes thru them. Others, don't quote me on this for I am ill infomed, might think they store it and grow larger. Thus, they would have to be quite large and combine to explode, as all matter is absorbed and they are drawn closer and closer to one another. An explosion reminicent of two suns meeting I suppose, just larger. How does a vacuum reverse upon impact though? This would give rise to one universe dying, being reborn etc. etc. Who knows how long it has been happening however. I refuse to belive though, that our universe is the only one and I am the best of what potentialy lies beyond has to offer. It is too hard to explain the unexplained at this point in time. Understanding the infinate? Or comfort and satisfaction in being able to explain that it has it's limits.

**Shibumi** · 12-09-2010, 04:51

As I have understood it, the most posh theory as of now is that the universe is expanding, but slowly decelerates. The deceleration is due to the dark matter. The more the universe expands, the more dark matter is created (or rather, fill out the gaps).

The dark matter is a opposite force to the expansion, thus the more is created, the bigger the resistance. And of course, after a while the universe will turn back into itself, matter again being denser and denser, until we reach a singularity.

A singularity is about one dot smaller than this --> . <-- in size, and if you think about it, something quite spectacular is bound to happen if you try to cram that much mass into, well, nothing.

The spectacular thing mentioned is of course a big bang, or as some call it, the Big Bang.

So yeah, science as of now think we are in a repeating cycle.

But then, half the articles on this topic gives me a headache, the other half make me reach for a spliff.