EB 1.2 + CITY MOD b + Darth 16.2 for EB + Sinuhet 7.0 AI Battle Formations for EB

[MDPR]

The following is a mixed AAR + opinions and a few suggestions.

This is indeed a challenging game. Especially because the CITY MOD b. makes it difficult to recruit new troops in the perimeter of my Arche Seleukeia empire, the faction Im playing on VH/VH.

With the city mod b version, I got 3 cities that can advance to Huge. Rest cant.


Pahlava, Saka, Ptolemaio and Eleutheroi are naturally causing me great difficulties, since I more or less am in constant fighting on all fronts.

So far i have gotten to 259 bc, with some 19 or 20 provinces. Macedonia is still my ally and one way I began making few more money from start, was to make peace with Epeiros and Koinon Hellenon, and at the same time capturing the two Ptolemaio provinces at the coast in the western part of my empire.

Giving Macedonia some money now and then - have maybe made them stay allied with me for now? One thing is for sure. If Macedonia at some point decides going East, now I'm involved in fighting with Pahlava and Saka in the northeast and Ptolemaio in the south, + the "loose" ½ stacks from Eleutheroi, several places inside my empire, I am done. So thats a good challenge.

Pontus haven't attacked so far, and had Pontus done that I had lost the west part of my empire.

Two of my huge cities have been sieged, Seleukis several times and I have also lost it two times in a row to Ptolemaio now. Fightings costing me 1½ stack plus a significant decrease in the city's population.

Great strategical and tactical game.

I especially like - hate :) - when Pahlava siege a town, I then try to break out off with numerous troops, just to have my troops clustered with arrows, and then when I have enough troops outside the city walls and begin to be ready to attack, the AI leave the battlefield, having lost almost no troops.

Also, the prices on certain buildings, like mines to 35.000 Mnai!!! - Top amount of income I have had in a season yet, has been 10.000, and 1/3 of those, more or less go to retraining troops. Good challenge trying to save up for the income these mines can provide in the future.

I can only recommend playing EB with the CITY MOD b. and Darth 16.2 + Sinuhet 7.0.


One thing I noticed after having installed City Mod, was the halfling of playable factions. Looks like its not possible to play as Barbarian with this mod. Doesn't matter btw, its a great challenging mod, playing the Arche Seleukeia faction.

I love that they dont speak english on the battle-field. Sadly they still speak englisg on the campaign map, but it is what it is.


A casualty list would for some weird way, be cool in this game as well. Like you complete your campaign, or a decade perhaps, and then get an option to view how many troops you trained -and used up so far. Statics of your forces would also be cool. Like how many spear units, how many Cav and so on, your army consist of right now.


EB = GREAT GAMING

EB + CITY MOD b + Dart + Sinuhet = AWESOME GAMING!

Oh, the Music and all the historical information, almost forgot that. Love it!!!

[Ludens]

Glad you like it!

Welcome to EB and to the .Org.

[Paltmull]

Seriously, people who play as the Arche Seleukeia have got to be masochists. Instead of trying to build an empire you start with one, that immediately begins to slowly get eaten from all sides.

[moonburn]

arche seleukeia is awsome to play with but it demands the kind of menthal preparation and attention to detail that i think i no longer have :X not to mention the lack of luck

whenever i played arche seleukeia i always imediatly left markanda and alexandreia machioteia (or whatver it´s the name) rebel
leave parthia also and start building up my economy for the reconquest my main goal is always the western mediterranean to remove the ptolomaioi from side and from cilicia then imediatly and automathically build up whatever i can must and destroy the pontians and secure mikra asia place forts on the passages and have my western boarder secured then place forts around hayasdan in the mounta passes create a network of working watchtowers and redevelop the economy (mainly beteween seleukeia and babylon and in the secure places of my kingdom) to raise a mine or to raise an army ... the mine will allow you to have an army later on while an army allows you to conquer early on and defend better so it´s your decision

on the east i always go for stone walls that will keep the phalava away until you´re ready to amass an army of pantadipoi (i use them to keep the squalor down and control the population) and send them against the phalava

that pretty much sums up my starting experience as arche seleukeia (and by starting i mean until 268bc)

[Fluvius Camillus]

@moonburn
It looks like you also lost your attention regarding interpunction of your sentences... No disrespect meant towards you, but it makes a post much more enjoyable to read.

@Paltmull
A finished empire? The empire is finished when the empire of Megas Alexandros is reunited! Have you ever tried playing it? The troop roster, the pressure and the variance in battles makes it an awesome faction to play.

Really you should try it, my personal strategy was to try to hold and takes some towns in Asia Minor and the Levant from the Ptolemaioi. While in the meantime you muster all forces that you can to turn the tide in the east. My turning point was when Antiochos I Soter scored a massive vistory over the Pahalavans near Asaak, defeating Phriapatios the Elder and a fullstack. Eventually other states will attack you to keep up the pressure. Eventually when you conquer the immediate enemies and build up you suddenly posses an incredibly powerful army and endless resources. Now you can lay back and goof around however you like.

Well done on the progress MDPR, doing this with these mods and difficulty, you sound like a very experienced player. This type of playing probably simulates the enormous pressure the empire was facing very well.

~Fluvius

[Paltmull]

@Paltmull
A finished empire? The empire is finished when the empire of Megas Alexandros is reunited! Have you ever tried playing it? The troop roster, the pressure and the variance in battles makes it an awesome faction to play.

Ah, bad use of the word "finished" there. What I meant was simply that you start with an empire. My bad.

I kinda like building my empires from scratch. It's no fun defending an empire that you didn't create yourself IMO, but that's just me.

Anyway, my post wasn't very serious. :P

[auboy105]

The following is a mixed AAR + opinions and a few suggestions.

This is indeed a challenging game. Especially because the CITY MOD b. makes it difficult to recruit new troops in the perimeter of my Arche Seleukeia empire, the faction Im playing on VH/VH.

With the city mod b version, I got 3 cities that can advance to Huge. Rest cant.


Pahlava, Saka, Ptolemaio and Eleutheroi are naturally causing me great difficulties, since I more or less am in constant fighting on all fronts.

So far i have gotten to 259 bc, with some 19 or 20 provinces. Macedonia is still my ally and one way I began making few more money from start, was to make peace with Epeiros and Koinon Hellenon, and at the same time capturing the two Ptolemaio provinces at the coast in the western part of my empire.

Giving Macedonia some money now and then - have maybe made them stay allied with me for now? One thing is for sure. If Macedonia at some point decides going East, now I'm involved in fighting with Pahlava and Saka in the northeast and Ptolemaio in the south, + the "loose" ½ stacks from Eleutheroi, several places inside my empire, I am done. So thats a good challenge.

Pontus haven't attacked so far, and had Pontus done that I had lost the west part of my empire.

Two of my huge cities have been sieged, Seleukis several times and I have also lost it two times in a row to Ptolemaio now. Fightings costing me 1½ stack plus a significant decrease in the city's population.

Great strategical and tactical game.

I especially like - hate :) - when Pahlava siege a town, I then try to break out off with numerous troops, just to have my troops clustered with arrows, and then when I have enough troops outside the city walls and begin to be ready to attack, the AI leave the battlefield, having lost almost no troops.

Also, the prices on certain buildings, like mines to 35.000 Mnai!!! - Top amount of income I have had in a season yet, has been 10.000, and 1/3 of those, more or less go to retraining troops. Good challenge trying to save up for the income these mines can provide in the future.

I can only recommend playing EB with the CITY MOD b. and Darth 16.2 + Sinuhet 7.0.


One thing I noticed after having installed City Mod, was the halfling of playable factions. Looks like its not possible to play as Barbarian with this mod. Doesn't matter btw, its a great challenging mod, playing the Arche Seleukeia faction.

I love that they dont speak english on the battle-field. Sadly they still speak englisg on the campaign map, but it is what it is.


A casualty list would for some weird way, be cool in this game as well. Like you complete your campaign, or a decade perhaps, and then get an option to view how many troops you trained -and used up so far. Statics of your forces would also be cool. Like how many spear units, how many Cav and so on, your army consist of right now.


EB = GREAT GAMING

EB + CITY MOD b + Dart + Sinuhet = AWESOME GAMING!

Oh, the Music and all the historical information, almost forgot that. Love it!!!

Sounds great how did you combine the Darth and Sinuhet mods together? Where can this be downloaded? Thanks!

[MDPR]

Well so far it has been a great challenge.

S and D; i just downloaded them and installed them? However, think the City mod b. version, is much more important to a difficult game as the one I'm playing, than these two formation-mods.

Check out the AI Battle Formation Mods on this website.

I actually have no idea whether they are combined or not, I'm not a vet player, just spotted EB on tube, checked out some Epeiros Campaign videos and thought the game looked awesome, so I downloaded it, read the forums, wanted to try out the City Mod b, playing a faction on VH/VH and that's basically it.

There has been some criticism of the formations in this thread. Check out those posts if you already haven't done so.

Awesome campaign report - it's always great to hear how other people play their campaigns. And nice to see that the Ptolemaioi are recruiting elephants! To answer one of your questions:


In my experience, when you're invited to join a battle by an ally like this, the enemy almost always withdraws, so the battle never actually takes place. If you have track-AI-movements turned on, you can often briefly see the armies moving as a result of the battle-that-never-was.

I had written a couple paragraphs of anti-Ptolemaioi advice based on my current Pontos campaign, but then I remembered you're playing on VH battle difficulty, so all my advice is probably useless . I have no idea how I'd kill those Ptolemaioi elite phalangites on VH battle difficulty... probably horse-archer them to death!

Thanks. Yes I like to read Campaign reports my self. Thought I would add one too.

I havent the AI-movemt-camera turned on, so cant say for sure, but it sounds logical.


Please post those paragraphs of yours, I havent won the game yet. Basically Im just trying to survive. Have only played some 60 years so far.

Also, I try to hide as many of my forces as possible and only go on the offense when I have too, cause I cant afford the losses when attacking - on the strategic map that is. Thats where the City B mod influence my game-play.

[MDPR]

The Ptolemaio front



This screenshot shows the fall of Antiocheia and its garrison of 19 mostly heavy units, of where two where my elite phalanx costing almost 4000 Mnai each.

The Ptolemaio siege-force had 3 Klerouchikon Agema-units, (Ptolemaic Elite Phalanx), and its stack consisted of 22 units, of which two where bodyguard cavalry units.

I only managed to take out 1 Klerouchikon Agema-unit, (Ptolemaic Elite Phalanx), however, the remaining two units, had some 40 and 30 soldiers left each, and you can see them on the screenshot above, walking on the plaza among all the dead, just before my final troops are killed.

More than 4000 men was killed in this siege battle, of which the 2800 was my troops.

A massacre. A disaster. Perhaps, quite likely, the end of this campaign.

Cause now everything is open now, with the exception of one close-to-full-stack, a depleted stack, all my other stacks and half-stacks are deployed long, long away from this "front", - or gap is probably a more precise word, yes this gap i now have where I before had a front.

I have no proofen idea of how to take out those Ptolemaio units of Klerouchikon Agema yet? They are super-armoured, even when assaulting them in the rear.

I havent been able to attack them in their rear with my own phalanx though? Arrows dosent really work, already tried that. Also, when they stand in friont of a tower that would normally decimate a unit, they only loose 5 10 men.



The beginning of the end?

In this same turn, wher I have now lost what I could not afford to loose, the important city of Antiocheia, I also lost Sidon, Edessa and Zakradata, and also lost a minor battle north of Sidon, where 6 of my heavy spear-units were thrown back and depleted with 40-50%.

I got a message the turn after, saying that Edessa has now been sacked and enslaved. This have given Ptolemaio a lot of Mnai, cause Edessa had a 16.000 populos.

In total, I have lost some 35-40 units in 1 single turn, including a population of some 40.000 at least, which is a lot when playing City mod b.

Between Edessa, Palmyra and Antiocheia, the victorious forces of the Ptolemaio faction, still has huge armies ready, with at least 3 Klerouchikon Agema-units left, although they must be severely depleted by now? Hopefully they are.


What now?

Should I sell out of all my buildings in some cities on my east front? Sack an entire city so I can raise a new army and somehow beat Ptolemaio back?

Or should I stop the campaign here while it is still fun?




Great challenge on vh/vh. Must say.

[FriendlyFire]

I have no proofen idea of how to take out those Ptolemaio units of Klerouchikon Agema yet? They are super-armoured, even when assaulting them in the rear.

On medium battle difficulty I find them straightforward to take out, as long as I can dedicate two units to do the job. On very hard battle difficulty they get a +7 bonus to defense, which is why I mentioned using horse-archers: defense doesn't count against missile weapons, so their bonus wouldn't apply. Other things to try:

• Wear them out before they make contact with your line. Exhausted troops are less lethal in combat, so if you can force them to march all over the battlefield you reduce your own casualties in the final combat. Lure them with skirmishers and/or keep backing your own line away and/or make them march uphill.
• Isolate them from the main fight. If one starts advancing towards a unit of yours, back away to lure it through your lines. Then reform the lines - now you have it trapped and can apply the following tactics.
• Pin them with another phalanx that's on higher ground. A height advantage is a huge force-multiplier in phalanx combat: on normal battle difficulty a levy phalanx on a good slope will butcher an elite phalanx trying to fight its way uphill. This may be another way to nullify that +7 bonus.
• Whenever your phalanx switches to "Fighting" status, select it and hit Backspace to go back to "Ready". This saves their energy, and most of the killing gets done by other troops anyway. The one exception is if the enemy phalanx does an about face to point its sarissas at whoever's attacking it from behind - then your own phalanx should attack to get their attention again!
• Hit them in the back with missile fire. Slingers are great, since their missiles are armor-piercing, but horse-archers are easier to get into position. Either one can also be used as a skirmisher to wear the enemy out first.
• Hit them in the back with armor-piercing infantry. Axemen are good for this: cheap and easily recruitable. However, this won't be nearly as effective on VH difficulty, since that +7 defense makes the elite phalangites insanely good in melee combat (especially if your own axemen are also fighting uphill!).
• Hit them in the back with a heavy cavalry charge - this typically means your general, but Kinsmen will also get the job done: they have an armor-piercing charge with a high attack value and high lethality, plus an armor-piercing secondary weapon for melee combat.
• Break their morale. Even an elite phalangite will break when they are exhausted (bad for morale), see nearby units routing (ditto), are surrounded (ditto), and suffer a lot of casualties in a short time (this is why heavy cavalry charges are so effective). I go even further and have a unit of Galatian wildmen just standing around the battlefield taunting: their fear effect makes the enemy break that much faster. Scythed chariots are another fear-inducer.

Note that I typically use all of the above: wear them out, isolate, fight from higher ground when available, soften them up with missile fire, flank and charge in with AP infantry, then finally follow up with a heavy cavalry charge, all while my Galatians taunt them. I've seen elite phalangites rout after taking less than 50% casualties, which is very gratifying, but if they have a good general commanding them (more bonuses) they'll stand and fight much longer. And all this is just on medium battle difficulty! I don't envy you

[vollorix]

Multiple charges, 2 at least, are very usefull: First your Bodyguards charge in and are kept in melee till the second cav. unit arrives. The first blow mostly causes "shaken", while the second one does the "weaving". And if the kill ratio is high enough the unit breaks inevitably. Disengage immidietly after the enemy unit breaks with your cavalry, to let them flee and slaughter them with your light cavalry or skirmishers, while utilizing your infantry and bodyguards for another sandwich move.

Slingers firing from the walls in the backs of any unit will devastate them despite heavy armour: 1) the ap bullits + 2) they are on a high ground + 3) shooting them from the back/the right side ( unprotected by shields ). Feels a bit like cheating, but playing on VH it´s actually inevitable to "cheat" the AI, because not only the defence bonus grows, but their morale too ( + 7, iirc ), which means a unit with already 15 morale gets 22 value, and because those troops are disciplined, they recover from initial shocks too well.

To fight the VH bonis you need some very experienced shock units: yes, axemen can do the job, but if the phalanx fights back, even with their swords, those poor buggers get slaughtered due to lack of armour and poor defence skills. You need a unit with good morale, very good stamina ( for prolonged and repeatable attacks ), high armour values, armour piersing abilities and/or high lethality. Agrianian Assaulg Infantry in case of Macs, Thracian Elite Swordmen, Thracian Peltasts at least. If you can, hire some Tindanotae, the Galatian Wildmen, their 2 HP together with allready called fear effect and high lethality, will do the job too ( plus they are "very hardy" and don´t break in a 1 on 1 fight due to 22 morale value ).