Those Inbred Finns Keep Getting Stupider

[Furunculus]

i wonder if the new free schools will do anything to drag britain's scores from the wreckage of our comprehensive system in the next decade?

[Beskar]

i wonder if the new free schools will do anything to drag britain's scores from the wreckage of our comprehensive system in the next decade?

It will make things far worse.

[Furunculus]

It will make things far worse.

why?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Even if we accept that the results of Shanghai are slightly skewed, the results themselves are nonetheless there. Shanghai is a huge region of twenty million.
Also, China not just came on top. But came on top by an enormous margin. The difference in scores between Shanghai and France are as large as the difference between France and Papoea New Guinea.



French kids are less well educated than that centre of public intellectual endeavor and of teenage cultural refinement, the United States.

Ah well. We beat Britain and Sweden.

[HoreTore]

Even if we accept that the results of Shanghai are slightly skewed, the results themselves are nonetheless there. Shanghai is a huge region of twenty million.
Also, China not just came on top. But came on top by an enormous margin. The difference in scores between Shanghai and France are as large as the difference between France and Papoea New Guinea.



French kids are less well educated than that centre of public intellectual endeavor and of teenage cultural refinement, the United States.

Ah well. We beat Britain and Sweden.

There is absolutely no way you can draw that conclusion with the pitiful amount of data you have, Louis.

You might say "in certain very specific areas, there might be an indication that country X may be better than country Y."

[Andres]

Even if we accept that the results of Shanghai are slightly skewed, the results themselves are nonetheless there. Shanghai is a huge region of twenty million.
Also, China not just came on top. But came on top by an enormous margin. The difference in scores between Shanghai and France are as large as the difference between France and Papoea New Guinea.



French kids are less well educated than that centre of public intellectual endeavor and of teenage cultural refinement, the United States.

Ah well. We beat Britain and Sweden.

I'll sheer you up.

Flemish scores:

Reading: 519
Math: 537
Science: 526

Walloon scores:

Reading: 489
Math: 488
Science: 482

It is time for the francophones to accept the superiority of their Flemish masters and to reform the state as we say it should be reformed.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I don't get the fuss, since when did one city represent all of China? Macao is more around the USA's level on average.

[HoreTore]

I don't get the fuss, since when did one city represent all of China? Macao is more around the USA's level on average.

Throwing big numbers at people makes them scared.

Whether there's something real in those numbers or not is irrelevant. I blame your maths teacher.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I'll sheer you up.

Flemish scores:

Reading: 519
Math: 537
Science: 526

And the Flemish scores would be higher still if they had taught you people proper English spelling.


For a century and a half, Belgium has dumped its own proletariat, and the large import of cheap uneducated foreign labour, on the industrialised south. Then heavy industry in Europe dissapeared in the 1960s. Suddenly, like Sleeping Beauty, dormant, rural and quaint mediaeval Flanders emerged as Belgium's economic centre. The steelmills, coal mines, smokestacks of Wallonia's sillon industriel, once the proud symbols of the richest and most industrialised area on the continent - suddenly they became tombstones, massive tombstones adorning the landscape of a dead area.

The north of France, the British Midlands, the German Ruhr area, American cities such as Pittsburgh and Detroit, all these areas of former heavy industry, these too were left with great social problems, left with an impoverished population. But these were part of a larger country. Talent and new investment could move in, the poor could migrate internally, be spread out more. In Europe, these cities like Lille and Manchester and Essen have been reinvigorated. In America, they are abandoned, Detroit is simply left to die, slowly rotting away under the weight of the undereducated population that got left behind. In Belgium, uniquely, federalisation happened simultaneously with de-industrialisation. Suddenly Wallonia was trapped. A rundown industrial area was suddenly declared a nation, left to its own devices. Nobody wants it, neither Flanders nor France. Its ecomony is bankrupt, its population is a vast proletariat.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Wallonia:






Flanders:

[Shibumi]

I'll stick my chin out here..



It is easy to suspect China of not-so-fair play. I myself trust the Chinese government about as far as I can throw a horse.

With that said however, I believe these results.

If we would take the Chinese immigrants in, say, the US I am fairly confident they would score better than the average american. This goes for any western nation by the way.

It's a cultural difference, in my opinion, and from what I have seen. Where people in the west get more and more into self-fulfillment, the people of the east rather strive for self-control.

The Chinese students get more support from home, and generally put more energy into learning.

So no, I do not see anything weird about these numbers. Only small shock I had was that Japan scored so low. Only top 5-10.


If this keeps up, one wonders how long we in the west will do the thinking while China does the menial labor.

[Strike For The South]

And the Flemish scores would be higher still if they had taught you people proper English spelling.


For a century and a half, Belgium has dumped its own proletariat, and the large import of cheap uneducated foreign labour, on the industrialised south. Then heavy industry in Europe dissapeared in the 1960s. Suddenly, like Sleeping Beauty, dormant, rural and quaint mediaeval Flanders emerged as Belgium's economic centre. The steelmills, coal mines, smokestacks of Wallonia's sillon industriel, once the proud symbols of the richest and most industrialised area on the continent - suddenly they became tombstones, massive tombstones adorning the landscape of a dead area.

The north of France, the British Midlands, the German Ruhr area, American cities such as Pittsburgh and Detroit, all these areas of former heavy industry, these too were left with great social problems, left with an impoverished population. But these were part of a larger country. Talent and new investment could move in, the poor could migrate internally, be spread out more. In Europe, these cities like Lille and Manchester and Essen have been reinvigorated. In America, they are abandoned, Detroit is simply left to die, slowly rotting away under the weight of the undereducated population that got left behind. In Belgium, uniquely, federalisation happened simultaneously with de-industrialisation. Suddenly Wallonia was trapped. A rundown industrial area was suddenly declared a nation, left to its own devices. Nobody wants it, neither Flanders nor France. Its ecomony is bankrupt, its population is a vast proletariat.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Wallonia:






Flanders:

<a href="http://www.gifbin.com/982166"><img src="http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1233928590_citizen kane clapping.gif" alt="funny animated gif"></a>

[al Roumi]

i wonder if the new free schools will do anything to drag britain's scores from the wreckage of our comprehensive system in the next decade?

It will make things far worse.

why?

Because it will make things better only for the very best. It will not drag up the lowest common denominator, it will exacerbate the already stark division in education and life chances that being middle or working class entails. The comprehensive system is precisely about minimising the effect of parentage, or at its best, spreading the positives around.

It is a simple truth (in Britain at least) that middle class parents tend to be a)aware of the need and methods as well as b)better equipped to get involved and work the system for their child's benefit. When middle class kids are concentrated, they therefore rise and rise -but leaving the greater majority of working class kids to (essentially) fester. Keeping a mix, i.e. as a comprehensive system should (that means without selective schools int he same catchment area), means the middle class parents militation will ensure the school does its best -and crucialy, not just for the middle class kids but also the working class kids too.

[Furunculus]

Because it will make things better only for the very best. It will not drag up the lowest common denominator, it will exacerbate the already stark division in education and life chances that being middle or working class entails. The comprehensive system is precisely about minimising the effect of parentage, or at its best, spreading the positives around.

It is a simple truth (in Britain at least) that middle class parents tend to be a)aware of the need and methods as well as b)better equipped to get involved and work the system for their child's benefit. When middle class kids are concentrated, they therefore rise and rise -but leaving the greater majority of working class kids to (essentially) fester. Keeping a mix, i.e. as a comprehensive system should (that means without selective schools int he same catchment area), means the middle class parents militation will ensure the school does its best -and crucialy, not just for the middle class kids but also the working class kids too.

if you believe that comprehensive education has achieved its 'equality' of outcome precisely by dragging everything back to a lowest common denominator then anything that might improve the situation can only be a good thing.

at the very worst free schools will not make the net average of educational achievement worse in this country than they already are.

if they make things better then we can finally have a sensible conversation about the failure of the comprehensive system and utter moronic stupidity of closing high-achieving grammar schools.

[HoreTore]

lowest common denominator

The lowest common denominator is a bigger number than the numbers you already have.

You are reffering to "greatest common divisor" or the smallest factor shared by two numbers.


Unless, of course, you mean "....dragging everything towards a..."

[al Roumi]

if you believe that comprehensive education has achieved its 'equality' of outcome precisely by dragging everything back to a lowest common denominator then anything that might improve the situation can only be a good thing.

at the very worst free schools will not make the net average of educational achievement worse in this country than they already are.

if they make things better then we can finally have a sensible conversation about the failure of the comprehensive system and utter moronic stupidity of closing high-achieving grammar schools.

You discredit the comprehensive system for failing to provide top end results without acknowledging the wreck that selective schools make of children who do not enjoy the support and pressure of their parents. You state that nothing can be worse than the comprehensive system but you are blind to the absolute inequality and downright elitism of the system precedant to the comprehensive one.

The fundamental issue is who do you focus on, the worst off who can't help themselves, or the well off who can and will help themselves. There are equally good reasons for assisting either but ultimately any system that does not support and enable both is defficient.

The "free" schools initiative gives more power to middle class parents. If these schools maintain a body of children from mixed backgrounds, then they should provide decent education for all.

[Furunculus]

i don't care to retard the development of children of any variety by inhibiting access to quality education, regardless of where that education may come from.

the comprehensive system is a wreck, it would be very hard for a free school to do worse, ergo; i support free schools.

incidentally:
http://www.westlondonfreeschool.co.uk/

The West London Free School will be a school with a classical curriculum, high standards of behaviour and a competitive atmosphere, but a non-selective intake.

Children with statements of Special Educational Needs

14. The West London Free School will admit any statemented pupil whose statement names the West London Free School and for whom the School has agreed to be named in the statement.

Over-subscription criteria

15. If there are more applicants than places, places will be offered in accordance with the following criteria in order of priority:

1. Children in public care (children looked after by a local authority under section 22 of the Children Act 1989).
2. Up to 12 children who have applied to be considered under the musical aptitude scheme.
3. After places have been filled under the first two criteria, 50% of any remaining places will be offered to those children who live nearest to the School, measured by the straight-line distance from the School gate to the child’s home. For 2011-2012 admissions, the distance criteria will be measured from the postcode of the Town Hall in the London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham to the child’s home.
4. After places have been filled under the first three criteria, two-thirds of any remaining places will be offered to children living within a three-mile radius of the School. Where the number of applicants in this category exceeds the number of places, offers will be determined by random allocation.
5. After places have been filled under the first four criteria, any remaining places will be offered to children living within a radius of between three and five miles of the School. Where the number of applicants in this category exceeds the number of places, offers will be determined by random allocation.
6. After places have been filled under the first five criteria, any remaining places will be offered to children living beyond five miles from the School. Where the number of applicants in this category exceeds the number of places, offers will be determined by random allocation.

so tell me again, why do you hate freedom?