Rioting students attack Royal car

[Strike For The South]

I take out loans and work 40 hrs a week

Suck it up

[rory_20_uk]

Actually, it is 13k a year, so 39k at the end. (You forgot the maintenance loan, to pay for accommodation, books and other things, and help towards other costs you might not be able to meet with a part-time job.)

I factored in £150 for digs and sundries, which unles you're living by yourself in the center of London is easily enough. Get a houseshare like everyone else. Books? Get second hand or use a library. I did after getting stung in my first year. Other things? If students want to have a good time then work for it like the adult they tell us they are.

[Banquo's Ghost]

I take out loans and work 40 hrs a week

Suck it up

Exactly. US universities, in the main, charge what they like (or rather what the market will bear) and they seem to be doing well enough. And their top universities actually import teaching and research talent, rather than export it.

Apart from Oxbridge, most British universities don't even exploit the alumnus system.

Finally, just how many Media Studies graduates from pointless ex-Polytechnics does the country need? Most employers consider most first degrees a useless encumbrance, so why shouldn't the students?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Exactly. US universities, in the main, charge what they like (or rather what the market will bear) and they seem to be doing well enough. And their top universities actually import teaching and research talent, rather than export it.

Apart from Oxbridge, most British universities don't even exploit the alumnus system.

Finally, just how many Media Studies graduates from pointless ex-Polytechnics does the country need? Most employers consider most first degrees a useless encumbrance, so why shouldn't the students?

Brutal social Darwinism is an option a society can choose for itself, but don't call it by any other name.

The US in the 19th century had an enviably high social mobility in the 19th century. Then during the 20th the drawbridges were pulled up. The US middle classes are hurting at the moment. Strike has to take out loans and waste his talent working 40 hours a week, to pay for a provincial university. Meanwhile his less talented but wealthier countryman can cruise to a Harvard degree.

The UK, which went from a closed shop in the 19th to Scandinavian levels of social mobility by the end of the 1970s, is now sadly a near closed shop again. The current government has set about to destroy the 'near' in that phrase.

(This all despite Clegg's election promise of raising social mobility, and his personally overseeing the government's policy on social mobility. The LibDems are estranging their electorate with measures like closing higher education. Of the three main parties, 'meritocracy' is the defining call top arms of the LibDems)

Social mobility lower in US and Britain than in other advanced countries

Though higher education has continued to expand in order to meet the demands of industry for a skilled and educated workforce, this has been accompanied and funded by a sharp reduction in the level of grants to support students while at university.

Soon after taking up office in 1997, the Labour government abolished grants and introduced tuition fees. Thus, with the change in the funding arrangements for students, the expansion of higher education that was trumpeted as the bedrock of a new “meritocracy”—where every individual would have the right to prosper as a result of their hard work and talents—actually served to increase rather than reduce social inequality.

As the study points out, the recent legislation that will increase tuition fees to up to £3,000 a year, reinstitute a derisory £1,000-a-year grant for the very poorest students, and require the universities to introduce a complicated system of bursaries is likely to exacerbate the situation.

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/about/news/Inte...alMobility.pdf

[HoreTore]

I take out loans and work 40 hrs a week

Suck it up

In America, the poor have a dream that with hard work, they will get rich.

In Europe, the poor actually gets rich with hard work.

This is one of the reasons why.

[InsaneApache]

The UK, which went from a closed shop in the 19th to Scandinavian levels of social mobility by the end of the 1970s, is now sadly a near closed shop again. The current government has set about to destroy the 'near' in that phrase.

Nothing to do with the present lot but everything to do with Shirley Williams.

[rory_20_uk]

Brutal social Darwinism is an option a society can choose for itself, but don't call it by any other name.

The US in the 19th century had an enviably high social mobility in the 19th century. Then during the 20th the drawbridges were pulled up. The US middle classes are hurting at the moment. Strike has to take out loans and waste his talent working 40 hours a week, to pay for a provincial university. Meanwhile his less talented but wealthier countryman can cruise to a Harvard degree.

The UK, which went from a closed shop in the 19th to Scandinavian levels of social mobility by the end of the 1970s, is now sadly a near closed shop again. The current government has set about to destroy the 'near' in that phrase.

(This all despite Clegg's election promise of raising social mobility, and his personally overseeing the government's policy on social mobility. The LibDems are estranging their electorate with measures like closing higher education. Of the three main parties, 'meritocracy' is the defining call top arms of the LibDems)

Clearly someone who didn't live through the 1970's in the UK.
Oddly, back then only about 5% of the population went to University. And the amount of money spent was probably less than it is now due to the massive rise in numbers. Good Old Labour opened the floodgates to encourage everyone to expect a "degree" (even if two of the three years are effectively A level retakes) and neglected to mention that the money was from the Government Credit Card.

I'm all for reintroducing the Grammar Schools and fully paid University places for the best students. But this would be meritocratic and hence unfair as that would create divergent outcomes...

[InsaneApache]

What is it about middle class, privately educated socialists and their contempt for the working classes?

I come from a working class background and through my own merit I went to a Grammar school. I didn't, nor did my parents, pay a penny to go there. I was exposed to an education system as good as and in some ways better than a fee paying school. It was the making of me.

My elder brother even won a scholarship to Manchester Grammar, one of the best in the country.

Since then things have gone into reverse. Whilst I, my brother and my eldest son all own our own homes, my youngest son lives in a 'dead dog' council estate. He probably will until the day he dies.

The prognosis for my grandchildren is even more bleak.

One more reason to despise the socialists' half-baked mindset.

[Banquo's Ghost]

The UK, which went from a closed shop in the 19th to Scandinavian levels of social mobility by the end of the 1970s, is now sadly a near closed shop again. The current government has set about to destroy the 'near' in that phrase.

Let me take your chronology at face value.

Up until the mid-seventies, the 11-plus streaming of children into grammar schools and secondary modern was widespread. University places were restricted to less than 5% of the population and demanded rigorous entrance standards. This is the educational backdrop for your golden years of social mobility.

Since then, comprehensive schools became the norm, the polytechnic colleges all got to call themselves universities and deliver shedloads of bachelor's degrees in David Beckham's Underpants as a Tool of Social Policy, and the stated aim of the last government was to have at least 50% of the population able to go to university and get a degree. Which they did, despite employers telling anyone who would listen that such degrees were worse than useless. This approach, according to you, underpins the contraction of social mobility.

Do I understand your thesis correctly?

As has been noted before, I await the consistent socialist argument that requires the working classes (who have much smaller chances of their offspring going to university) to pay via taxation for the sprogs of the middle class to go for free. I'm all for oppressing the poor, but that seems a bit iniquitous even for my tastes.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Brutal social Darwinism is an option a society can choose for itself, but don't call it by any other name.

The US in the 19th century had an enviably high social mobility in the 19th century. Then during the 20th the drawbridges were pulled up. The US middle classes are hurting at the moment. Strike has to take out loans and waste his talent working 40 hours a week, to pay for a provincial university. Meanwhile his less talented but wealthier countryman can cruise to a Harvard degree.

The UK, which went from a closed shop in the 19th to Scandinavian levels of social mobility by the end of the 1970s, is now sadly a near closed shop again. The current government has set about to destroy the 'near' in that phrase.

(This all despite Clegg's election promise of raising social mobility, and his personally overseeing the government's policy on social mobility. The LibDems are estranging their electorate with measures like closing higher education. Of the three main parties, 'meritocracy' is the defining call top arms of the LibDems)

Personally, I think these students should pay more back in loans, because their loans should cover all their expenses until they graduate.

I would love for someone to give me one of these "horrible" loans to pay for my PhD fees.

Oh woe!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

As has been noted before, I await the consistent socialist argument that requires the working classes (who have much smaller chances of their offspring going to university) to pay via taxation for the sprogs of the middle class to go for free. I'm all for oppressing the poor, but that seems a bit iniquitous even for my tastes.

The poor should only be oppressed if one can convince them they are doing it to themselves.

terry Prachett was right to call it a "crab bucket".

[Furunculus]

hmmm, my dad came from a working class liverpool family that had never sent anyone to university, ended up with a research masters in biology and a successful teaching career. not bad for a dock-workers son, and not an ounce of 'privilege' in sight.

i, as the son of a teacher and a nurse, got into grammar school and ended up with a geology degree and a masters in business, again, not any huge degree of privilege.

of course this happened in those 'terrible' times when grammar schools existed, before the enlightened era of attempting to manufacture 50% media-studies graduates from school leavers.

[InsaneApache]

I didn't realise that you a scouser Furunculus. Perhaps I should put you on ignore.

[Furunculus]

I didn't realise that you a scouser Furunculus. Perhaps I should put you on ignore.

only half, and no accent, dad realised if he ever wanted a graduate job post-uni he'd better ditch the scouse. good move. terrible accent. :p

[Louis VI the Fat]

QUICK HIDE YER WALLETS EVERYONE

[Idaho]

only half, and no accent, dad realised if he ever wanted a graduate job post-uni he'd better ditch the scouse. good move. terrible accent. :p

On one hand a declaration of social mobility, and then within a few posts an acceptance that class is all pervasive.

[Furunculus]

On one hand a declaration of social mobility, and then within a few posts an acceptance that class is all pervasive.

your paradigm, not mine.

i don't concern myself with class or hold grievance against percieved social injustice.

dad came from a poor family and did what was necessary to remove himself from this situation.

twaddle about 'fairness' really plays no part.

i was taught to concentrate on improving myself, not resent forces that might hold me back. a far healthier outlook i feel, in part responsible for my naturally sunny disposition.

[rory_20_uk]

One can try to beat the system, but perhaps it is better to learn to thrive within it. If that involves loosing an accent then so be it. I was lucky enough not to have a frightful Devonshire accent - merely because one is born in a stable does not make one a donkey...

[Strike For The South]

In America, the poor have a dream that with hard work, they will get rich.

In Europe, the poor actually gets rich with hard work.

This is one of the reasons why.

I'm not poor, who said anything about being poor?

Brutal social Darwinism is an option a society can choose for itself, but don't call it by any other name.

The US in the 19th century had an enviably high social mobility in the 19th century. Then during the 20th the drawbridges were pulled up. The US middle classes are hurting at the moment. Strike has to take out loans and waste his talent working 40 hours a week, to pay for a provincial university. Meanwhile his less talented but wealthier countryman can cruise to a Harvard degree.
)

When it becomes clear that the system is hurting the citzenry as a whole, decisoins must be made, these kids will have a bit of debt but they have a while to work it off, and trust me they can have all the fish and chips they want.

Coming out with 28,000~ in debt isnt bad as long as work during your uni time, most kids dont understand this

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

One can try to beat the system, but perhaps it is better to learn to thrive within it. If that involves loosing an accent then so be it. I was lucky enough not to have a frightful Devonshire accent - merely because one is born in a stable does not make one a donkey...

Likewise, my sister however is a real farmer.

[InsaneApache]

bye:)

[Louis VI the Fat]

Four police vs horde of terrorists one unarmed bloke in wheelchair.

Go get 'em lads! Britain's safer for it!


Language warning!

[Beskar]

You seen the Interview?


The Interviewer is a male member.

[Husar]

The interviewer sounds like he forgot his brain when he got up and went to work.

On a related note, Mr McIntyre should get a job and finance his studying, I heard there's a lot of open student jobs in construction for example...

[Louis VI the Fat]

While headlines are rightfully devoted to the horrific stress Charles and Camilla have had to endure over an egg pelted at their car, there is some good news too. Alfie Meadows looks set to live.

Twenty year old philosophy student Alfie's head was smashed in as he tried to flee a polcie charge. He was beaten to within an inch of his life by the police. Once brought to hospital, in near death condition, suffering from a stroke, bleeding severly, the police ordered the ambulance personel to...take him elsewhere, this is our hospital, police officers first.


Thank God for that one medic who would not let himself be intimidated by some cops. He insisted Alfie received the immediate care he needed, rather tahn be driven about some more. A three hour brain surgery followed.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/155156.html

[Rhyfelwyr]

Or maybe Alfie is just a drama queen, read what he said in past articles... he was practically setting himself up as a martyr to his mummy when he went off to play the rebel (he said people are going to die today, eh, lol). He rioted and he got hurt and suddely he turns on the waterworks...

[Tellos Athenaios]

Still, I don't think police in the UK had acquired official skull bashing privileges just yet. So there's definitely a case to answer there.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Do tell, how many pipe bombs did he carry? Where was his car withexplosives? Where is the lead pipe he used to club policemen with?


A twenty year old who goes out for a protest. Then gets beaten to within an inch of his life. That what you had in mind when you paid your taxes for your police? To unleash some orcs with truncheons to club in the skulls of Britain's finest?

His mother Susan, 55, an English literature lecturer at Roehampton University, said: "He was hit on the head by a police truncheon.

"He said it was the hugest blow he ever felt in his life.

"The surface wound wasn't very big but, three hours after the blow, he suffered bleeding to the brain.

"He survived the operation and he's in the recovery room."

Mr Meadows was with a number of friends, including two lecturers, Nina Power, a colleague of his mother's, and Peter Hallward, a philosophy lecturer at Kingston University.

But as they tried to leave the area where protesters were being held in a police "kettling" operation, the second-year undergraduate suffered a blow to the head.

[Beskar]

Or maybe Alfie is just a drama queen

You know, you might not be ideologically aligned with the protestors, but suffering a major head injury, which caused a stroke, and other serious effects does not come under any definition of "Drama Queen" and he definitely not suffered a little 'boo-boo'. You have your right to your ideological opinion and whether or not you agree with the protests, but trying to completely dismiss something which evidently is quite serious is very... well, I be honest, I can't think of the exact word I want to use, so I will settle for "silly and makes you look foolish".

[rory_20_uk]

A (I hope) small subset of the police at these events goes waaaaay OTT.

The government reacted quickly to these events (like the last time when the police story changed from "protester hurt and protesters stopped help coming" to "we hit someone who wasn't demonstrating and stopped the ambulance getting through and help from protesters").

Now it is illegal to photograph police officers - next time it'll be illegal to have an alternate explanation to the police's.