Islamist bomb attack on Sthlm, Sweden.

[Beskar]

They're the Borg and you *will* be assimilated if you don't put up a fight.

No, Socialism is the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.

[HoreTore]

I'm no fan of the Student Protests. They are spoilt children.

If the RAF is in light to WW2, again, I think that is one that the UK should have stayed out of it all, but sadly we didn't have a suitable Quisling.

No, I'm talking about Rote Armee Fraktion.

You know, our previous terrorists.

[Husar]

If the RAF is in light to WW2, again, I think that is one that the UK should have stayed out of it all, but sadly we didn't have a suitable Quisling.

I think he means the other RAF, I confuse them myself sometimes.

[Devastatin Dave]

If only the Swedes had never invaded Iraq....

[Husar]

If only the Swedes had never invaded Iraq....

They had reliable info that Saddam was torturing reindeer, what should they have done?

[Devastatin Dave]

They had reliable info that Saddam was torturing reindeer, what should they have done?

They could have atleast gone to the UN for some more resolutions. Now they have ruined their standing with the entire muslim community. Maybe they can adopt Sharia law in order to show that they are tolerant to the peaceful and misunderstood message of Islam....

[naut]

Is this the new sarcasm and derogatory comments thread?

I hope so. I never did like Martians, all icky and green.

[Hax]

They could have atleast gone to the UN for some more resolutions. Now they have ruined their standing with the entire muslim community. Maybe they can adopt Sharia law in order to show that they are tolerant to the peaceful and misunderstood message of Islam....

That'd miss the point, no, rather they'd apologise post-mortem to mr. Hussein. And the best way to do that is by adapting a secular state, like his Iraq!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

That'd miss the point, no, rather they'd apologise post-mortem to mr. Hussein. And the best way to do that is by adapting a secular state, like his Iraq!

Secular state? Good idea. Saddamist Kleptocracy? Not so good.

[Hax]

Yeah, before you know it, they'd try to annex Denmark and China would intervene, only to return ten years later because there were weapons of mass destru -- oh, right.

[HoreTore]

Yeah, before you know it, they'd try to annex Denmark

That would probably earn them the peace prize....

[Ironside]

Yeah, before you know it, they'd try to annex Denmark and China would intervene, only to return ten years later because there were weapons of mass destru -- oh, right.

Now, now our good ancient claims are on Finland.

A united Scandivia only needs to be looking 500 years back and changing who the dominant nation was.

Anyway, more on topic: He seems to be the "soul searching into something stupidly radical" type. Came to Sweden from Iraq at age ten 1992, been radicalising and traveling abroad (often in the Middle East) in the last few years.

[Fragony]

Now, now our good ancient claims are on Finland.

A united Scandivia only needs to be looking 500 years back and changing who the dominant nation was.

Anyway, more on topic: He seems to be the "soul searching into something stupidly radical" type. Came to Sweden from Iraq at age ten 1992, been radicalising and traveling abroad (often in the Middle East) in the last few years.

And failed miserably because of screaming amateurism it's almost comical, well it is actually pretty comical. Can't believe people are making this so big it's rediculous to do, it's nothing keep your calms (as Swedes did). If this was the worst problem things would be really nice but it's much more dangerous socially speaking intended or not, 'attacks' don't help adressing the real issue: political correctness, Top-down blind faith in a flawed society where everybody is bound to feel lost.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Hope you guys can keep your calms, Horetore is right on this was a spectacular suicide, nothing more.

Until it happens again.... and again?

EDIT: Both of those pictures were hotlinked. Please host pictures yourself. BG

[Fragony]

Until it happens again.... and again?

Those are the pro's, yeah things like (Sweden) this are going to happen again and again. Nothing you can do about it fact of life. If you were a muslim how would you want to go if you want to kill yourself , making it a religious act must be terribly tempting if you want to kill yourself anyway, but it's still suicide.

[The Celtic Viking]

Such a defeatist attitude. It's like being at war but not bothering to fix any defensive positions because you know you're going to take casualties anyway.

This was not intended to be just a suicide, so it's really dumb to act as if it was just because that's how it turned out. He did not blow himself up because he was tired of life, he did so because islam teaches that the only way to be assured of a place in heaven is to kill and be killed for allah. He was an islamofascist, a jihadist and a would-be-massmurderer. Lets at least be honest about that.

Of course there are lots of things we can do to limit the possibility of another attack, of which two good examples would be to put our mosques under surveillance to see if they are preaching jihad (and to arrest and deport any imam that does), and to actually require people who come here to identify themselves.

[rory_20_uk]

In the UK he'd been spreading his "extreme" views in a Mosque until he was asked to leave. Did they call the police? No - it's not their job to do that...

I don't think that Mosques (or churches for that matter) should have to be under surveillance, but if the attitude of those in charge is that they won't mention to the authorities those who are spreading extreme views then I see little choice.

In the UK far from having the First Amendment we have Inciting Violence and Inciting Racial Hatred so there are plenty of laws to use if it were thought worth arresting, but in most cases I would have thought monitoring would be the best option.

[Fragony]

Nothing defeatist about it, when the pro's hit it really hurts and this clearly was an amateur. How do you intend to stop school shootings, I don't like it either but I'm not the one with respect. Deal with it, what can you really do about it? Congratulate the multicultists on their superior morality should you meet them in their 100% white neighborhoods.

The multiculti's probably are going to open www.dontyoudoit.com they think that way

[Hax]

he did so because islam teaches that the only way to be assured of a place in heaven is to kill and be killed for allah.

What. The. Hell.

That makes no sense at all. According to Islamic theology, suicides are sent to hell.

[rory_20_uk]

It's all semantics.

They're not committing suicide - they're dying on Jihad.

[Hax]

They're not committing suicide - they're dying on Jihad.

That's a matter of debate, and yes, it is semantics. I think that most Islamic theologians would distinguish between blowing yourself up in a crowded area, and dying, sword-in-hand, engaged in hand-to-hand combat.

[The Celtic Viking]

What. The. Hell.

That makes no sense at all. According to Islamic theology, suicides are sent to hell.

I based that on the Quran. You know, that old book that the muslims consider to be the final and unalterable word of god? Yeah, that one. See Sura 9, verse 111:

"Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah ? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph. "

Emphasis added.

Nothing defeatist about it, when the pro's hit it really hurts and this clearly was an amateur. How do you intend to stop school shootings, I don't like it either but I'm not the one with respect. Deal with it, what can you really do about it?

As I said already, two examples that you can do would be to keep the mosques under surveillance to make sure that they can't be brainwashing the sheep with jihadist ideologies and get a better control (and in our case, any control) over who comes into our country. We can stop with this cultural relativistic nonsense and work to integrate the muslims into our society, and deport those who refuse or can't. We can get some self-respect and get rid of this yoke called "political correctness", etc.

I'm not saying that we can make it 100% sure it never happens again. That would be ridiculous. That doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't try to make it harder for them to do so, though.

[Ironside]

If this was the worst problem things would be really nice but it's much more dangerous socially speaking intended or not, 'attacks' don't help adressing the real issue: political correctness, Top-down blind faith in a flawed society where everybody is bound to feel lost.

Not really, you see simular behavior in the local right- and leftwing extremists, or religious "reborns". The suecide bomber is somewhat unique though.

It's a serious small scale problem, but not a huge issue. 0,3% of the terrorist actions in Europe (2006-2009) was related to Islam. But they do attempt to make it big when they try.

[Fragony]

It's prett clear what the Qu'ran says some just mentally block it because multiculture is a religion as well. But things like things like this distract from the real villains like Ramadan and that Rouf guy

[Hax]

"Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah ? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph. "

Being slain in battle is not the same as suicide. I'm not interested in a theological debate. That verse is stupid, hell, if you ask me, the entire Qur'an is basically pretty stupid, but I'm not interested in debating the origins of the Qur'an or where what verse came from, what it means and how it should be interpreted. That's something for the theologians. And if you ask me, I think it's better if the whole Sunni world would get back the old Mu'tazilite position that the Qur'an is not "the final and unalterable word of god".

EDIT: What irks me about your post is the fact that you said that "according to Islam" the only way for Muslims to get into heaven is through slaying and being slain. And that's...not really true.

[rory_20_uk]

I'm a pragmatist. The fact is this document causes a small but significant minority to kill themselves and others. The question is how to stop them doing this within the UK. Whether by alterations to education, surveillance, deportation or a combination of all three is where I see the most productive debate taking place.

[Hax]

I'm a pragmatist. The fact is this document causes a small but significant minority to kill themselves and others. The question is how to stop them doing this within the UK. Whether by alterations to education, surveillance, deportation or a combination of all three is where I see the most productive debate taking place.

I concur. I don't think that deportation would be a good way to do it. They'd come back (illegally, if needed) and then blow themselves up.

[The Celtic Viking]

Being slain in battle is not the same as suicide.

Look, if you want to debate whether that verse covers suicide bombing, you will have to do that with the jihadists. They clearly think it does.

And if you ask me, I think it's better if the whole Sunni world would get back the old Mu'tazilite position that the Qur'an is not "the final and unalterable word of god".

So do I, but that is not very likely to happen, and the world is as it is.

EDIT: What irks me about your post is the fact that you said that "according to Islam" the only way for Muslims to get into heaven is through slaying and being slain. And that's...not really true.

Then perhaps I can quell that irk and inform you that you misunderstood my post. I did not say that muslims must do it to get into heaven. However, whenever the Quran talks about getting into heaven, it makes it clear that it is a gift, not a reward: you cannot earn it, no matter how good you are (see Surah 28:67). It does make one exception though, and that is as in the above quoted Sura 9:111. That is, according to the Quran, the only way to be guaranteed a place in heaven - and a special place at that - is by "killing and being killed for Allah". That's what I was saying.

[Hax]

Look, if you want to debate whether that verse covers suicide bombing, you will have to do that with the jihadists. They clearly think it does.

Yeah, but they are stupid. We both know that. Good point, though.

So do I, but that is not very likely to happen, and the world is as it is.

Eh, I'm not so sure. It's recently been proposed again in some points (most famously by 'Ali Abdel Raziq), and while it's still not any good right now, perhaps opinions will change. The Wahhabist movement is no older than 200 years, maybe it'll die out as just another unsuccessful offspring.

Then perhaps I can quell that irk and inform you that you misunderstood my post. I did not say that muslims must do it to get into heaven. However, whenever the Quran talks about getting into heaven, it makes it clear that it is a gift, not a reward: you cannot earn it. It does make one exception though, and that is in the above quoted Sura 9:111. That is, according to the Quran, the only way to be guaranteed a place in heaven - and a special place at that - is by "killing and being killed for Allah". That's what I was saying.

That doesn't really make any sense, and I think if you ask two imams on who gets into heaven, you'll get three different answers. Like in the other Abrahamic Religions, it's either hell or heaven. Where do you go if not to hell, nor heaven?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Purgatory as any good Catholic would say. You just disappear if you're an atheist though.