Secularists having a paddy over the KJV Bible Readings

[Beskar]

Funny enough, the advancement happened before Christianity during the periods like the Greeks and Romans... guess what happened next.

[gaelic cowboy]

Funny enough, the advancement happened before Christianity during the periods like the Greeks and Romans... guess what happened next.

Rome didnt collapse due to Christianity it's time had come and it was extinguished in effect by an entirely natural process.

[al Roumi]

it was extinguished in effect by an entirely natural process.

Yellow peril? The Hun?

[al Roumi]

And anyway, the enlightenment didn't truly "invent" everything it (or we) claims it did- a lot was actually imported, certainly a lot of agro/industrial improvements were brought to Europe from China and India. Also, European countries were not the most wealthy and powerful countries of the world during the enlightenment, China under the (early) Qing dynasty was in full swing of a political, cultural and military golden age. Voltaire, Mr Enlightenment, was thoroughly impressed by China and was often unfavourably comparing contemporary Europe to China.

[Beskar]

Rome didnt collapse due to Christianity it's time had come and it was extinguished in effect by an entirely natural process.

Actually, Christianity changed the nature of the Empire on a fundamental level. Instead of the bloodthirsty "Go against us, and you will be on a cross from here to Rome", they became far more 'nicer', preaching peace and other things. Which led to the destruction of the Empire, and the loss of technology, scienfitic advances and philosophical thought, which were recovered from the Muslims around 700 years later..

[CBR]

Actually, Christianity changed the nature of the Empire on a fundamental level. Instead of the bloodthirsty "Go against us, and you will be on a cross from here to Rome", they became far more 'nicer', preaching peace and other things. Which led to the destruction of the Empire, and the loss of technology, scienfitic advances and philosophical thought, which were recovered from the Muslims around 700 years later..

Doing my best John McEnroe impersonation: You can not be serious!

[al Roumi]

I also remember some talking head on a documentary saying the demise of the roman empire could be inversely tracked by the growing length of the gladius... His theory was that the longer the sword, the further the legionaries were fromt he action, the less their bravery and the greater the detachment from what was going on. Sounds like tripe to me but anyway.

Personaly, I think the downfall was precipitated by Atilla and the other mass migrations of people and prepared by the over-extension and the ever decreasing gains of a large empire.

[rory_20_uk]

I also remember some talking head on a documentary saying the demise of the roman empire could be inversely tracked by the growing length of the gladius... His theory was that the longer the sword, the further the legionaries were fromt he action, the less their bravery and the greater the detachment from what was going on. Sounds like tripe to me but anyway.

Personaly, I think the downfall was precipitated by Atilla and the other mass migrations of people and prepared by the over-extension and the ever decreasing gains of a large empire.

I tihnk your latter observation is more likely part of the cause. The gladius never stopped the Legionaries fighting toe to toe with their enemy. I imagine that controlling a UAV is sufficiently far from the action to create detachment.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The length of a standard legio's sword was important not so much in terms of bravery -- Rory is quite correct that hand-to-hand combat with ANY weapon requires some degree of personal courage -- but in terms of discipline. Longer blades require looser formations and necessitate a) better education and training along with the encouragement/reward for independent action or b) less discipline. Over time, too many troops/commanders/funders chose the latter route.

Beskar:

You are simplifying things far too glibly. You imply that the Catholic Church specifically set out to eliminate knowledge as a coordianated element in their consolidation of power. The history of the early Church does not support this. Moreover, the Church has never been the monolithic force so gleefully referred to by so many. Were there elements of the Church that took such a stance? Probably so. Those elements were never more than part of the whole tapestry.

In addition, there are a host of reasons playing into the development of the "Dark Ages." Again, religion is at best only one component of understanding that epoch.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Actually, Christianity changed the nature of the Empire on a fundamental level. Instead of the bloodthirsty "Go against us, and you will be on a cross from here to Rome", they became far more 'nicer', preaching peace and other things. Which led to the destruction of the Empire, and the loss of technology, scienfitic advances and philosophical thought, which were recovered from the Muslims around 700 years later..

Christianity only began a true rise during the age of Constantine, and by that time the Roman Empire had been sliced, diced, carved, seperated and segregated to no good effect. The idea was to spread Christianity in order to reunify the Empire ideaologically and recreate the early Us (now Christian) and Them (now heathan) mentality that had dissapated with the ethnic widening of the Legions and Roman Citizenship.

It wasn't about being nice.

Well, at least this topic has been lievely while I have been down.