Romans In Brazil?

[Finn MacCumhail]

Casella and Vavilov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Vavilov) and Von Jean-Paul Descœudres, Penelope Mary Allison, Derek Harrison identified it as an pineapple. Cassela and Vavilov were professional biologists, so they definitely knew the difference between pine and pineapple. Vavilov also best known for having identified the centres of origin of cultivated plants.

What is more interesting, pineapple came from Brazil. The article calls "Romans in Brazil", coz several Roman artefacts were found there.

1) Romans had ships, that could make transatlantic journeys. Tur Heyerdal proved that it is possible even for ancient papirus boat, without having supplies from the civilization during the journey.

2) There are favorable winds and currents linking Canare islands and Mexican bay.

3) The faraway expeditions were pretty common among Mediterenian dwelers.

4) There is pretty much Roman and Phoenician stuff found in Americas.

[Arjos]

While I can imagine Phoenicians getting there, I can't say the same for Romans...
It's not in their mentality...
And the only castaways I can believe in are dead ones XD

[Finn MacCumhail]

Pliny refers that the Roman merchants, incited by good earnings, found a very short way for India across Nile River, the Red Sea and the Arabic Desert; the whole run was completed in ninetyfour days.

Isn't it against their mentality?

[Arjos]

Pliny refers that the Roman merchants, incited by good earnings, found a very short way for India across Nile River, the Red Sea and the Arabic Desert; the whole run was completed in ninetyfour days.

Isn't it against their mentality?

Well it's a "shores" route and as merchant class goes, I don't know how high in the roman society they were, if they were "citizen" of the Italian peninsula ok, otherwise they could have been roman subjects...

[Lvcretivs]

Casella and Vavilov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Vavilov) and Von Jean-Paul Descœudres, Penelope Mary Allison, Derek Harrison identified it as an pineapple. Cassela and Vavilov were professional biologists, so they definitely knew the difference between pine and pineapple. Vavilov also best known for having identified the centres of origin of cultivated plants.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Let's adequately clarify some issues: Jean-Paul Descœudres, Penelope Mary Allison, Derek Harrison are the editors - not the authors - of an essay collection accompanying a 1994 exhibition, the 'identifications' proposed in their book are neither their own - they are their contributors' - nor do they most probably constitute a separate scientific contribution.

Descœudres', Allison's and Harrison's contributor(s) likely simply followed Casella in his erroneous identification of 'pineapples' (Ananas comosa), 'mangos' (Mangifera indica) and 'custard-apples' (Anona squamosa) in Pompeian frescoes, 'identifications' which quite frankly constitute a blatant scientific blunder that really isn't mitigated by Casella's position as professor at the Faculty of Agriculture (Instituto di Coltivazioni Arboree) at the University of Naples. His academic prestige as an 'professional biologist' didn't save him from mistakes even a layman could rather easily detect.

As to Vasilov's 'identification' - could you please name a credible source (scientific publication) for such a claim?

What is more interesting, pineapple came from Brazil. The article calls "Romans in Brazil", coz several Roman artefacts were found there.

1) Romans had ships, that could make transatlantic journeys. Tur Heyerdal proved that it is possible even for ancient papirus boat, without having supplies from the civilization during the journey.

Roman naval technology of the High Empire (late 1st/2nd Century CE) was probably sufficiently advanced to make transatlantic exploratory journeys to the Americas at least theoretically feasible - but that there really were transatlantic exploratory journeys is a completely unfounded hypothesis based on no 'hard' or even 'circumstantial' existence.

Where are e.g. the literary and epigraphical sources that document such journeys and the supposed transatlantic trade? If e.g. tropical fruits from Brazil were ubiquitous commodity and common trade good in the Mediterranean, why is there not the slightest mention of these surely interesting exotic fruits and their spectacular origins in contemporary 'scientific' literature eg. Pliny's 'Naturalis historia'(77/79 CE)? Why there is no mention in contemporary poetry and literature (1st century CE: Persius, Petron, Juvenal, Martial, Statius, etc....). Where are the archaeological remains? The excavations in Pompeii have yielded carbonized remains of nearly every plant depicted in the frescoes - but there are no preserved remains of pineapples nor mangoes nor custard-apples.

2) There are favorable winds and currents linking Canare islands and Mexican bay.

Excuse me, but this thread is about 'Romans in Brazil' not 'Romans in Mexico' - or have you spotted cocoa beans in Roman frescoes!?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;)

3) The faraway expeditions were pretty common among Mediterenian dwelers.

That's no valid argument in favor of Roman transatlantic exploratory journeys - in fact thats no argument at all.

4) There is pretty much Roman and Phoenician stuff found in Americas.

No comment.