What happened to the progressive-left majority in Britain?

[Furunculus]

+1

Also; brown people

i take it dev-dave is saying that champagne-socialists have a hard time understanding the concerns of their working class electorate, or possibly that a wealthier electorate is less appreciative of social-democratic politics.

but with your comment i am stretching........... do you mean that pro-immigration policies commonly espoused by left-wing parties have back-fired because their core electorate, the poor working class, are the first to suffer under high immigration regimes?

[Strike For The South]

i take it dev-dave is saying that champagne-socialists have a hard time understanding the concerns of their working class electorate, or possibly that a wealthier electorate is less appreciative of social-democratic politics.

I liked the monacle

but with your comment i am stretching........... do you mean that pro-immigration policies commonly espoused by left-wing parties have back-fired because their core electorate, the poor working class, are the first to suffer under high immigration regimes?

I think Le Pen getting the vote in France and the breakdown of the progressive left are intertwined. In a welfare state you make some tradeoffs and one of those is usually a higher rate of unemployment. Add in a group of people whom are radically different than you, coming in mass numbers, in a financial breakdown and you get reactionary xenophobia which isn't very conducive to an old style socialist.

Now, personally I think this threat is by in large imagined but it should come as no surprise that working class in Britian is much more apt to be swayed to right policies when there are barabrians on the border so to speak.

[Rhyfelwyr]

i take it dev-dave is saying that champagne-socialists have a hard time understanding the concerns of their working class electorate, or possibly that a wealthier electorate is less appreciative of social-democratic politics.

Yeah, dave can say a lot with just a single generic smilie.

Is the progressive-left dead?

Yes.

All that happened is that the right also became progressive. Sadly for the progressive-left, the "left" part of their policies isn't really that relevant right to our concerns right now with massive debt etc. And now the right are progressive as well, the left can't rely on being progressive as a selling point.

As a result, they have been gobbled up from both sides by the more moderate centre-right on one hand, and the disillusioned far-right on the other.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I don't see a problem with "right" wing parties winning as long as they are not moronic when it comes to civil liberties or are not economic libertarians.

If the right wing in Europe is pro gay, pro women and recognizes that letting the bankers play with their economic equations without adult supervision is bad for the economy, then good for them.

The only area that is in serious danger of extreme right wing (I mean really right wing) takeover is the US.

[gaelic cowboy]

generic smilie.

Is the progressive-left dead?

Yes.

The numbers in actual votes dont support that view how can the progressive left be gone, due to FPTP you merely have a moment here in time here where it looks weaker than it really is. If there was an election tomorrow you would still have a large Labour vote and it could even win, thats purely down to the way your constituencies are marked out.

The real squeeze is on centrism in my view and in the actual term "Left"

[Rhyfelwyr]

The numbers in actual votes dont support that view how can the progressive left be gone, due to FPTP you merely have a moment here in time here where it looks weaker than it really is. If there was an election tomorrow you would still have a large Labour vote and it could even win, thats purely down to the way your constituencies are marked out.

The real squeeze is on centrism in my view and in the actual term "Left"

I think the wider picture has changed too much. We had the old (traditional, TU dominated) left and the old authoritarian right. Then we had the progressive left while the right remained authoritarian. But now the right has become progressive on social issues as well. Tories are as ACIN said pro-women, pro-gay rights etc.

It makes it redundant to talk of the left as if it you can identify it by its being progressive. All the mainstream parties are these days.

As Rory said, 100 years ago the left had an important role to play, we needed the minimum wage, and the unions. The thing is, the left won. Nobody wants to dismantle the welfare state. So the left changed its tune, it became the progressive left and identified more on social issues eg being liberal on social issues, pro-immigration etc.

But now the right is largely following these steps as well. It has left the progressive left with nothing to offer.

[gaelic cowboy]

But now the right is largely following these steps as well. It has left the progressive left with nothing to offer.

And the Right is also landed with nothing Rightist to offer either by the same token.

And the main point is still that Labour still could pull off an election victory due to the various boundaries and the vagaries of your system.

So you gotta ask yourself why not left if the right follows there ideals???

[Rhyfelwyr]

And the Right is also landed with nothing Rightist to offer either by the same token.

And the main point is still that Labour still could pull off an election victory due to the various boundaries and the vagaries of your system.

So you gotta ask yourself why not left if the right follows there ideals???

Oh, I agree with you. The right doesn't offer anything unique in the sense of being progressive. The point is there is no longer any point in talking about a distinct progressive left. There is just the left.

Why? Because the left won. Everyone became progressive. Often when parties are too successful, they remove the need for their own existence. Kind of like the recent difficulties facing the Social Democracts in Sweden. They were so successful from all those years in power that every party adopted their core policies, and it made them redundant.

That's kind of like what's happened with progressiveness and the left.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The numbers in actual votes dont support that view how can the progressive left be gone, due to FPTP you merely have a moment here in time here where it looks weaker than it really is. If there was an election tomorrow you would still have a large Labour vote and it could even win, thats purely down to the way your constituencies are marked out.

The real squeeze is on centrism in my view and in the actual term "Left"

FPTP demonstrates that the Left can still field compelling candidates despite polling badly nationally.

FPTP favours the Right because they attract personaslities, like Ken Clarke and Boris Johnson. The Left has a tendancy to favour people "on message" so they do well in proportional systems which favour the Party.

Ol' Wigferth wants to elect a man, not a corporation.

Extrapolating from that, the Left is having a bit of an identity issue right now for the reasons mentioned - but because of the type of parties the Left usually run they look worse off they are, and that perception is hurting them.