[Council of Villains] A State of Corruption [Concluded]

[Captain Blackadder]

The moment I say its name, Beskar can claim it's the only kill ability he has, even if he has a whole stack of others.

Fine then you can tell me or someone else if you do not trust me the ability. I just want someone to be able to back up your view. I do not care who that person is.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@All
Anyone else received the pizzaguy blackmail treatment tonight?

You know, Seon received the blackmail treatment, and that lead to me trying to save his while the rest of you wanted him dead. And then what happened? Oh yeah, that's right, Dark Samus died.

I love how forceful, yet obviously helpful and productive, behavior is now scummy.

And yeah, if you ask around, you'll understand I've threatened a bunch of people in exchange for information; the alternative is randomly killing, and not caring what the result is.

I did the exact same thing in.... a lot of other games, really. This is standard operating procedure.

ATPG, some day you're going to have to explain to me how you always get so many people to believe your ridiculous role claims.

When the game ends, I'll accept your apology. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

I usually try to make my lies, you know, believable. This role is ridiculous, yet extremely satisfying. Goes down smooth, great flavor.

Plus he makes you feel like you're being mean to him when you act skeptical.

Ordinarily I'd say yeah, I try to play such head games, but at the time I was frustrated that none of my suspects were good enough for anyone, and all my moves were being criticized. Give me something positive to work with.

I must confess that ATPG is the player that I am affraid of the most. No-one is so frightful to me as he is. So, when it turns out that he is a SK of a sort, I just shiver

Listen Jarema, I hear what you're saying, and I want to calm your fears. Please click the spoiler for more.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

RRRROOOOOAAAAAARRR!!

I noticed some complaints about my methods in the preceding posts; specifically threatening in private.

It's what I did with Seon, to positive effect, even for Seon himself. Kind of ESPECIALLY for Seon himself.

Honestly, Winston should be happy I'm asking him who he is before I just blithely kill him. Do you guys want me to kill your investigator, protector, or hero roles?

I'm just asking.

Now, if you want me to drop that, I will. I don't see why I should, but if it's how you want me to operate, with one wing tied behind my back, okay.... this is your show, tell me what to do.

Now, I want a response to the question: Do you want me to try to avoid hitting useful people, or people with stories I can easily confirm, or would you prefer me to kill randomly?

I could just abstain from killing at all, I gave that option, and several people have suggested they'd actually prefer I act as a vigilante here. Please decide, one thing that is frustrating is I'll work hard for you, but a couple dozen bosses with different strategic demands makes for an unhappy and unproductive Pizza. Please have one clear objective for me, and then ask me to do that.

[Seon]

Hey, but me folding to the slightest threat (read grand) worked out in the end :p. We got dark Samus and you out into the light after all.

[Beskar]

Well, I'm off to bed right now.

But for a final sentiment, I must point out that the last time Beskar took this mocking tone towards me, it was when I correctly identified him as mafia in another game.

So you are going to bed, without even mentioning this kill ability, this proof you found a mafia?

I apologise, but I am in hysterics. You are lying so badly on a unbelievable level and it is obvious that you are.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hey, but me folding to the slightest threat (read grand) worked out in the end :p. We got dark Samus and you out into the light after all.

I know it did. I don't understand how a successful and useful strategy is now bad.

I guess it's the SK thing. Look, I'd be doing the exact same thing if I were pure as the driven snow. Mafia respond to threats, townies understand why threats are necessary, and understand no one is above suspicion.

I am getting angry that Winston refuses to name the ability he supposedly stole from Beskar. It would take a fraction of a second to just state, for the record. There is NO DAMAGE to the town if he does so, because he already stated that Beskar had such a power. Therefore, it's kind of like when Kagemusha refused to reveal, after Tincow was after him and Kagemusha himself had revealed 90% of his info, in the previous game.

The damage, whatever it may be, has been done. Reveal or get the heck out, Winston. Do you realize you might have caught Beskar in a lie? You might be able to prove he's mafia or something? Yet you refuse to give the goods?

This is either a really bad bluff, or I do not know what the heck you're waiting for. Tell me.

[Beskar]

I could just abstain from killing at all, I gave that option, and several people have suggested they'd actually prefer I act as a vigilante here. Please decide, one thing that is frustrating is I'll work hard for you, but a couple dozen bosses with different strategic demands makes for an unhappy and unproductive Pizza. Please have one clear objective for me, and then ask me to do that.

Kill Winston. He cannot even name this apparent 'kill ability' which proves I am mafia scum (even though it apparently hasn't even been used by the mafia too), even after prompting by myself and other town in thread.

He is evidently the last remaining Dark Samus player (which is why Renata, etc was in full support of him). He knows I am protected at night so he is hoping to get me lynched off as 'revenge'.

I am getting angry that Winston refuses to name the ability he supposedly stole from Beskar. It would take a fraction of a second to just state, for the record. There is NO DAMAGE to the town if he does so, because he already stated that Beskar had such a power. Therefore, it's kind of like when Kagemusha refused to reveal, after Tincow was after him and Kagemusha himself had revealed 90% of his info, in the previous game.

The damage, whatever it may be, has been done. Reveal or get the heck out, Winston. Do you realize you might have caught Beskar in a lie? You might be able to prove he's mafia or something? Yet you refuse to give the goods?

This is either a really bad bluff, or I do not know what the heck you're waiting for.

It is a really bad bluff, infact, it isn't even a bluff. It is an attempt to get you to spare him tonight, because he has some information, but he won't reveal it, because he doesn't actually have anything at all.

Then he is using the threat of not being able to 'expose' if you killed him at night. But since there is nothing to expose in the first place, you won't find it magically in the morning anyway.

The fact Dark Samus is fully behind him is icing on the cake.

[johnhughthom]

But for a final sentiment, I must point out that the last time Beskar took this mocking tone towards me, it was when I correctly identified him as mafia in another game.

He's addressed you in a different tone?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Please vote now for Winston to die or be spared.

He refused to give me anything substantive in private, which is fine.... didn't tell beskar what ability he copied/stole from him, but claimed and insisted he had done so.

Now, when simply asked directly to state what it was he took, and I contacted him privately while he was still online and asked him:

EDIT: Can't copy.

Gist of it: "Before you go to bed, what ability did you take from Beskar."

He went offline a few minutes afterward.

Do you guys think his story is credible enough to double-check first, or should I pull the trigger?

He's addressed you in a different tone?

It's a fair cop.

[classical_hero]

I vote for to kill Winston. There are too many holes in his story. If Beskar is right, then killing him is great for the town. If he is town, then he should have confessed to what he knew, like Seon did.

[Greyblades]

Ugh how long until this turn is over?

Storming off in a huff though it was I wouldnt want to be killed while sleeping Vote: dont kill Winston

[Beskar]

vote

He is a either the last remaining Dark Samus member (most likely), or a Survivalist being foolish (least likely)

[thefluffyone93]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OFF WITH HIS HEAD!
So yea, vote.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It is a really bad bluff, infact, it isn't even a bluff. It is an attempt to get you to spare him tonight, because he has some information, but he won't reveal it, because he doesn't actually have anything at all.

Then he is using the threat of not being able to 'expose' if you killed him at night. But since there is nothing to expose in the first place, you won't find it magically in the morning anyway.

The fact Dark Samus is fully behind him is icing on the cake.

All right calm down now, you're making me uneasy.

I have a vibe here that feels like two mafiosi from two different families are threatening each other privately, threatening to expose the other, but won't take it public because that means death for you both.

There is something unusual about this entire proceeding, because Winston does not usually play so badly, even when he's scum. I'd say, especially when he's scum.

Beskar, if he copied any ability from you, tell me. You didn't say you had any abilities. There's no reason to hide them if you're both trusted and protected.

Is there any truth to what he's saying?

The reason why I ask is, if you had ZERO abilities, the instant he said he stole something from you, you'd be able to say "pardon me? Wrong bluff, buddy" and just call for his head immediately.

Instead you question him, which implies that he is right about something.

Just tell us; if you're both scum I still would prefer to take down Winston first.

[Frozen In Ice]

It appears the only reason Winston gave for not revealing which ability he stole is because he is afraid Beskar has multiple killing abilities. I could see why Winston would do that when there was still a lot of time left for him to try to pry it out of Beskar. But now he knows he will likely die if doesn't give a name, and yet he still refuses. He would've given a name if he had one at this point if he cared for his life at all. So either he's anti-town caught in a lie, or he's a townie that doesn't care about his life.

I say take a shot if you wish ATPG.

[TinCow]

Do I get a vote?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Do I get a vote?

I am morbidly curious.

Go ahead. Renata too.

[Romanic]

Uh, I'll have to re-read the Winston vs Beskar debate to get a better idea of things, but killing Winston tonight? I don't know... I thought that Autolycus gave us a good alternative.

Dear Meta-Ridley and Phazon-Corrupted (and everyone else too)
Based on today and stuff I can't discuss since I'm dead, I'm fairly certain Frozen in Ice is scum and specifically Samus scum. Might I suggest you kill him?
Thanks,
Mr. Dead Quarantine Officer.

He's fairly certain that Frozen in Ice is on the Samus team, based on stuff that he cannot discuss. It looks like a good lead to follow.

My pick for the Pizza kill would be Frozen in Ice, even if he has not answered the accusation. I trust that Autolycus wouldn't have posted this, phrasing it how he did, if his reasons weren't good enough.

[TinCow]

I am morbidly curious.

Go ahead. Renata too.

Spare his life so that he can lynch Samus tomorrow.

Mafia fratricide FTW!

[Captain Blackadder]

Well as to whether he should die tonight rests on who the other target is going to be. I say don't kill him but have a very close look at both him and Beskar because if both of them are town I will eat my hat. One of them is scum possibly both of them.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Uh, I'll have to re-read the Winston vs Beskar debate to get a better idea of things, but killing Winston tonight? I don't know... I thought that Autolycus gave us a good alternative.

He's fairly certain that Frozen in Ice is on the Samus team, based on stuff that he cannot discuss. It looks like a good lead to follow.

My pick for the Pizza kill would be Frozen in Ice, even if he has not answered the accusation. I trust that Autolycus wouldn't have posted this, phrasing it how he did, if his reasons weren't good enough.

I do feel this is a very important point. But I feel quite wary of pulling the trigger blindly on Frozen, even based on a dead townie hunch. Still, you're right, there's basically no reason I shouldn't act on that. I am only weighing my options.

I feel the Winston lead is more pressing, and I feel the Frozen lead should get a full vote, not just me shooting him.

Spare his life so that he can lynch Samus tomorrow.

Mafia fratricide FTW!

This still feels like a mafia bluff. Will consider, yet probably ignore.

If he's the last member of your team, he's not got long for this world regardless, because he's angrying up the blood of a bunch of other factions IMO.

Well as to whether he should die tonight rests on who the other target is going to be. I say don't kill him but have a very close look at both him and Beskar because if both of them are town I will eat my hat. One of them is scum possibly both of them.

Beskar is holding something back, but after talking with him, I don't believe he's mafia.


*new information*


And, I also know this: Winston is absolutely lying about something, or he's mafia, or both; or Beskar is.

Between the two of them, Winston has more to prove. If he comes up townie, Beskar has a LOT of explaining to do. And honestly, Winston does too, because he has been caught in a lie about something, or he would do his townie duty.

Beskar knows he's lying for reasons I won't go into. Winston bluffed, and was caught in the bluff.



I will be killing Winston Hughes tonight, for certain. If I die, Beskar must explain why I have done these actions. If Winston comes up townie, Beskar must be pressured, but not just him; I'd like to know from Winston why he was lying. It doesn't make sense.

[Beskar]

the instant he said he stole something from you, you'd be able to say "pardon me? Wrong bluff, buddy" and just call for his head immediately.

This is what I did. But he continued, so I played along for amusement, thus asked him what this ability apparently in (as I mentioned in my first post). One that never materialised either in private or public...

[Chaotix]

TWO IMPORTANT NOTICES:

Replacements:
Motep has been replaced by Greyblades.
Death is yonder has been replaced by Choxorn.

Additionally, I have decided to extend this night phase to 8:00 PM EST tomorrow. Apologies for any inconveniences that creates.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Woot, more time to discuss.

Given the giant amount of investigators we've discovered, I would like to switch the discussion to candidates for scan. Assuming Winston dies, who should we scan?

Give multiple options so it is still not obvious what our plan is. I just want to hear who we will be investigating.

I already have like 3 people I want to know more about, personally, and they are town suspects at the moment, but re-reading the past round, I am slightly more skeptical of the idea that the people who voted for me over Renata must be scum. I think Winston may have been the only one.

I still want to confirm on a couple, maybe, but I am more open to the idea of other targets. Let's also coordinate who we investigate, to cover maximum territory in a single night with absolute efficiency. Later, if the detectives survive, we have them scan each other.

[pevergreen]

TWO IMPORTANT NOTICES:

Replacements:
Motep has been replaced by Greyblades.
Death is yonder has been replaced by Choxorn.

Additionally, I have decided to extend this night phase to 8:00 PM EST tomorrow. Apologies for any inconveniences that creates.

Hello replacements.

The only inconveniance is having to wait longer to see more writeups.

[/flattery of the host]

This makes Beskar seem very off.

ATPG, you can understand why we can't completely trust you here. Beskar covered for you by lying.

Winston could be telling the truth. I can see how hes trying to do it. If he did copy an ability off Beskar, and its a killing ability, obviously Beskar seems to have admitted to having at least one. Winston is trying to make Beskar say it out loud, so he can figure if he has more than one (which would point to not being a town role, imo) by getting him to say a different one.

If he didnt have one, it wouldnt be like this. If he had one, he could say so straight away, or work out a compromise (give me 5th letter of first word or something/link me to the picture)

The fact that Beskar is acting how he is, is off; so.

Vote: Kill winston

If hes town, lynch Beskar. We don't need beskar, hes just a front for the investigator. A possible mafia front.

[Askthepizzaguy]

This makes Beskar seem very off.

ATPG, you can understand why we can't completely trust you here. Beskar covered for you by lying.

Yes, I do indeed understand, but that's more a reflection on Beskar than me.

Winston could be telling the truth. I can see how hes trying to do it. If he did copy an ability off Beskar, and its a killing ability, obviously Beskar seems to have admitted to having at least one. Winston is trying to make Beskar say it out loud, so he can figure if he has more than one (which would point to not being a town role, imo) by getting him to say a different one.

What he accused Beskar of, was so inaccurate, that everything beyond that point was an obviously bad move. He couldn't back down or answer any questions related to it because it was so off the mark.

I'd bet my head that Winston is mafia, or I will have words with him after the game about when the proper time to lie as a townie is.

Vote: Kill winston

If hes town, lynch Beskar. We don't need beskar, hes just a front for the investigator. A possible mafia front.

I can say with almost absolute certainty that Beskar is not mafia.

Samus mafia wants me ever, ever so dead, and Beskar is obviously not Dark Samus mafia.

There would have to be a third mafia, and I do not think so. That's not what's going on here.

[TinCow]

This still feels like a mafia bluff. Will consider, yet probably ignore.

If he's the last member of your team, he's not got long for this world regardless, because he's angrying up the blood of a bunch of other factions IMO.

Think of it this way, if you let him live one of the two of them is almost certain to be lynched tomorrow. That means you get another day to fade into the background and play townie.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Think of it this way, if you let him live one of the two of them is almost certain to be lynched tomorrow. That means you get another day to fade into the background and play townie.

That's really not my objective and you know it. I appreciate the game you're playing, and I find it very amusing; right up there with Andres' dead+distracting mafia play. Letting him live, as he's caught out lying, is downright foolish. The threat of being lynched tomorrow doesn't enter into it. Or even so, if he's Samus, I want to kill him before I get lynched. If he's mafia, my use to the town is further proven anyway.

The last thing I need is to misfire here. There is no benefit to letting Winston live if what I'm seeing isn't Winston's most horrendous townie mistake ever. Further, if he is "mafia" mafia, as in your team or Samuses, odds are pretty good he's got a reason to attack me tonight.

I believe one of three things is the case here, given your reaction.

1. He's blundered horribly badly as a townie, with a bluff that backfired and made him look scummy. I rate this outcome as highly unlikely for Winston.
2. He is Phazon, and you'd just like to delay him getting killed off so swiftly after yourself and Renata so he can possibly recruit and continue your legacy
3. He's Samus mafia, and you just want to see a maximum amount of non-townie roles survive and cause mayhem for your own amusement.

In any of these cases, I'm not inclined to give you satisfaction by letting him off the hook. You play ruthless, I play ruthless.


Anyway, he's got 24 hours to explain himself, and I am looking forward to it. It's entirely possible he says something interesting. But rest assured, I need a real explanation, not a bluff. It's not going to cut it.

[Double A]

... what happens if mafia playes merciful?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

OASEULA.CGBULG.KLGOBSTHSAOTCEJHSLRCBKJCBXLKGOCKLAGDJLEOKBEU ABOKH

JUST ****** SCAN AS DEFAULT

Beskar's response is hugely hugely scummy.

Scum seem to be crawling all over the "kill winston" request.

Frozen is likely scum.

THERE IS NO EARTHLY REASON TO KILL SOMEONE IN THE MIDDLE OF A DEBATE

Winston quite clearly stated his reason for not saying the power.

Apparently, he claims he 'copied' a kill ability from me (originally, he apparently had 'all'), and he says I have to fully reveal or he will 'out' me. So entertaining this, I questioned "So, what is the name of this ability then?".

Beskar practically ADMITS to having a kill ability here. If someone said they copied a kill ability from me, and I didn't have any, I WOULD NOT say "so what's the name of it?". DUH

[TinCow]

I believe one of three things is the case here, given your reaction.

1. He's blundered horribly badly as a townie, with a bluff that backfired and made him look scummy. I rate this outcome as highly unlikely for Winston.
2. He is Phazon, and you'd just like to delay him getting killed off so swiftly after yourself and Renata so he can possibly recruit and continue your legacy
3. He's Samus mafia, and you just want to see a maximum amount of non-townie roles survive and cause mayhem for your own amusement.

You don't think there's any possibility Beskar is scum, regardless of Winston's role? You noted a few oddities about Beskar's responses just a few posts up... Surely if your only remaining objective is to kill Samus, you'd want to carefully consider all potential suspects for that role.

Oh, by the way, the ability Beskar's detective used to ID me is called X-Ray Visor. It is the only investigative ability in the game that can pierce a cover role, and it is possessed by both mafia families. Beskar's detective is my counterpart from the Samus mafia family. So, for all you pure townies out there, beware who you trust.

All mafioso have cover roles. All cover roles have a physical resemblance to the true character role. Who does an action-oriented human female resemble when you play Metroid music in the background?