[Council of Villains] A State of Corruption [Concluded]

[Winston Hughes]

Beskar has already claimed to have no killing ability. So if you can show that you did steal one, that's all you need. "Waiting" for him to list his abilities is absurd.

Well, there's still a fair while to go today, and I was planning on waiting until later before telling what I know. I've given up hope of survival (and, thus, victory), so ATPG might as well kill me tonight. My proven innocence will at least show up Beskar for the liar he is.

But, since everyone seems so keen for me to reveal it right away...

On night two I used my Metamorph ability on Beskar, and gained the Plasma Cannon ability, which kills with a Fire-Based attack.

Of course, now that I've said this, the obvious response is that I had this ability in the first place, or that I learned it from someone else. So I don't see how it changes anything, other than to make Beskar's life a little bit easier.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I hate this whole issue.

[Greyblades]

Ditto.

[Renata]

Why? I'm quite enjoying it. Especially if it turns out I was right about Beskar and AtPG sittin' in a tree, etc. (Sorry, Winston, you being mafia would not be nearly as satisfying. I only had one little ping on you. Pity we never got to chat; if we had I'm sure there would have been more.)

[Greyblades]

Fun though it may be, its starting to drag on a bit.

[Winston Hughes]

Why? I'm quite enjoying it. Especially if it turns out I was right about Beskar and AtPG sittin' in a tree, etc. (Sorry, Winston, you being mafia would not be nearly as satisfying. I only had one little ping on you. Pity we never got to chat; if we had I'm sure there would have been more.)

Stop doing that! Every time your posts imply I'm not one of your scum buddies, everybody assumes that I am.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Stop doing that! Every time your posts imply I'm not one of your scum buddies, everybody assumes that I am.

Why don't you ignore the dead mafioso and respond to the live serial killer.

[Renata]

Stop doing that! Every time your posts imply I'm not one of your scum buddies, everybody assumes that I am.

Is that so? Can't imagine why. :D

[Winston Hughes]

I should add, for when I'm dead and proved innocent, that I have told the truth throughout, while Beskar has lied time and again. (I'll make a list later on, if I can be bothered).

[Winston Hughes]

I hate this whole issue.

This is what happens when the town allows itself to be led by a villain.

[Askthepizzaguy]

On night two I used my Metamorph ability on Beskar, and gained the Plasma Cannon ability, which kills with a Fire-Based attack.

Of course, now that I've said this, the obvious response is that I had this ability in the first place, or that I learned it from someone else. So I don't see how it changes anything, other than to make Beskar's life a little bit easier.

Describe the icon for me.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

pizza, aren't there many other responses mafia can try when you threaten to kill them? Like just claiming their role and trying to seem innocent? Why would going all out in an attack on beskar be a natural response?

Probably the only way beskar will be lynched is by a winston town flip though.

[Winston Hughes]

Probably the only way beskar will be lynched is by a winston town flip though.

You see how I've ended up here, then. From the moment I started seriously suspecting Beskar, I couldn't give way to his two-man shakedown with pizza. I gave him every chance to stop this from happening - to the point of waiting nearly six hours with the IM window open. I knew that going public would mean my death (one way or another), but just bending over while Beskar and pizza move from player to player pulling the same stunt was not something I could stomach.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You see how I've ended up here, then. From the moment I started seriously suspecting Beskar, I couldn't give way to his two-man shakedown with pizza. I gave him every chance to stop this from happening - to the point of waiting nearly six hours with the IM window open. I knew that going public would mean my death (one way or another), but just bending over while Beskar and pizza move from player to player pulling the same stunt was not something I could stomach.

Oh please. You didn't answer a single question of mine. You kept talking to the guy you think is mafia instead of me?

Now you're playing the sympathy card and still stalling? You know who uses emotion over substance to get their way? Politicians.

[Winston Hughes]

Oh please. You didn't answer a single question of mine. You kept talking to the guy you think is mafia instead of me?

Now you're playing the sympathy card and still stalling? You know who uses emotion over substance to get their way? Politicians.

The difference was that you were definitely mafia. Until he started lying in public, I was unsure about Beskar.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The difference is that you were definitely mafia. Until he started lying in public, I was unsure about Beskar.

Who else have you used metamorph on, Winston?

[Winston Hughes]

Describe the icon for me.

Is that allowed?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Is that allowed?

lol, if you can describe it, you're driving pizza crazy by waiting to ask this.

[Askthepizzaguy]

pizza, aren't there many other responses mafia can try when you threaten to kill them? Like just claiming their role and trying to seem innocent? Why would going all out in an attack on beskar be a natural response?

Probably the only way beskar will be lynched is by a winston town flip though.

I am not sure, Sasaki. But if one was trying to avoid being killed OR being scanned, one might try to push the focus off of them and onto Beskar.

Why Winston waited this long to answer a simple question baffles me; the only thing I can see is that he's attempting to wait out the suspicion storm, and then defend himself, so we will change our minds and not kill him tonight.


As for can he describe it, we've already discussed describing other various abilities, such as the investigation abilities. There's also nothing in the rules saying describing it is illegal.

The rules are fairly simple; standard affair for mafia games.
-During the day, you vote for someone to be lynched, using the format Vote: Chaotix. If you want to change your vote, use Unvote: Chaotix first or else your original vote will be the one counted.
-You may NOT edit your vote out of a post. You may edit a post with a vote in it so long as the edit does not affect the vote.
-You may Vote: Abstain to show you are present but wish to refrain from voting.
-Vote: No Lynch is NOT allowed.
-Dead players can participate, but may NOT vote or reveal previous night actions or sensitive information they knew before their death.
-Private communications are allowed.
-Quicktopics, chatrooms, etc. are NOT allowed unless given express permission by the host.
-Dead players cannot communicate privately unless given express permission by the host.
-You may quote PMs from other players, as they can be forged. You may not post screenshots, chatlogs, etc.
-You may NOT quote PMs from the host or your role PM, unless given express permission by the host.
-You must PM all night actions to the host personally.
-If you have multiple defenses, you must choose one and PM that to the host; otherwise your defense will be chosen randomly.
-Clarifications to the rules will be posted by the host if perceived to be unclear. If you are unsure or think I might have missed something, please don’t be afraid to ask questions!

This is the only rule which could apply here. But he's not quoting, he's paraphrasing.

Also, for those that gain several defenses, note the second bolded line. Would be a wise idea not to forget this important point.

[Winston Hughes]

lol, if you can describe it, you're driving pizza crazy by waiting to ask this.

Really? I had no idea.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

hmm, you know day 1 a few people were convinced that beskar was mafia (myself included). Then they tried to kill him and tincow went after him. But actually the didn't try and kill him...pizza did. Who is now buddy buddy. And tincow would try and get the opposing mafia lynched.

...
Man this thing just kills me.

[Renata]

@ Sasaki --

Me too. :) And I have this kind of grudging admiration for Winston's level of stubbornness. It's rather beautiful.

[TinCow]

On night two I used my Metamorph ability on Beskar, and gained the Plasma Cannon ability, which kills with a Fire-Based attack.

And.... there we go. At last, Beskar is finally undone by his impatience in revealing me after N1. If he had just waited a single night to report his mafia partner's result, he could have at least claimed the 'detective' had scanned him. But he didn't, and his relationship with the 'detective' made no sense. And he got scanned by a townie for it. And now he's dead.

Like I said, mafia fratricide FTW!

[Secura]

On night two I used my Metamorph ability on Beskar, and gained the Plasma Cannon ability, which kills with a Fire-Based attack.

Given the context of the game and the wide array of characters we've seen, I've come to the conclusion that Winston is telling the truth about his Metamorph ability and that he is probably Kirby or Ditto.

Neither of those characters fit the description of Sasaki's killer on Night Two, who was of similar height to Rundas and able to look at him with "beautiful red eyes" and kiss him passionately before vapourising him with fire-based attacks.

Sure, there's cover roles, but have we seen a cover role yet that doesn't correlate with the character that it's masking? Just look at Ridley's cover, another draconic character, or Cloud's, which was essentially a brown-haired mirror image. Who would be a cover for Kirby/Ditto?

Winston claimed to have stolen the Plasma Cannon ability on the same night Sasaki died, meaning that he is affirming that he was actively doing something else rather than being the murderer; this claim doesn't clear him in the eyes of the living town, but should it really be acted upon so impulsively by the vigs/serial killers?

I believe you should refrain from killing Winston for now; scan him first, as his ability could be extremely useful if he is town and it's not something that we want to lose so easily.

Should you learn nothing constructive, consider killing him then; just give him a little time.

I'll eat my pizza hut hat if I am wrong.

On any occasion where you hedge your bets like so, I will pop up and remind you about this statement... :P

[Askthepizzaguy]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053241436

Night one, shadowy figure with Red eyes (bolded) attacks and kills Pit AKA Reenk Roink.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053242319

Night two, figure with delicate arms and Red eyes (bolded) attacks and kills Rundas, AKA Sasaki Kojiro.


Beskar has claimed credit for both attacks, and although the attacks are different, he also claims he has both ice and fire strike.

Notice the description of the attacker matches in both cases, and that the figure is described as delicate and feminine, with red eyes.

There is no plasma "cannon" being used here. But it is believable that someone with "fire strike" who is who Beskar claims to be would attack with "fireballs" as I have also attacked with "fireballs" with "fire strike".

Finally, this shows that Beskar was elsewhere during all of the Samus kills. It also shows he has a cover role.

Beskar is NOT Samus. What he is, is Princess Peach. What alignment he is, he claims to be Hero, but I have doubts.




Now, I still have some doubts that Winston stole "plasma cannon" from Beskar. That's why Beskar called bull, because although the accusation was close, it was also off; off enough to sound like a lie, so he asked for the goods, and Winston stalled. Beskar's ability does not sound at all like "plasma cannon". Why the name would change in Winston's hands, is unknown.

I'm not sure exactly what is going on. But, there is enough to cast doubt on Winston. Beskar is another story.

I know for sure he's not Samus. The proof is in the write-ups.

My theories on him are twofold:

1. He's Samus' accomplice; Samus' "hunter" word is also in Bold Red. However, only Beskar's character talks, and in bold Red.
2. He's something else he claimed to be, which has a reason for a cover role. Peach/Jill Valentine being third party would explain a lot.


If Winston is mafia, I believe that he's gunning for Beskar pretty hard because of "Mafia Fratricide" as Tincow put it. He believes Beskar is mafia, very much so.

I tend to think that Winston is either mafia himself, or he's going to be mafia via recruitment; I find it hard to believe he's Samus if Samus is in the writeups killing. He could be Samus' accomplice, but that means Beskar is innocent, because Beskar could only be Samus' accomplice. He cannot be Pikachu or any other visible non-Samus accomplice and his color is all wrong.

So, if Winston flips Samus mafia, Beskar is innocent.
If Winston flips Dark Samus mafia, Beskar is either third party or Samus mafia.
If Winston flips innocent, he was indeed recruitable and an eventual threat, but the real threat is elsewhere.

Beskar is not Samus. I do believe his protection at night should be removed, and for now, given to Seon.

You decide what you want to do with this information.

I believe we can gain a lot of information by killing, or investigating, mister Winston. But he doesn't want to cooperate, even when he might be able to help us. I am skeptical he's REALLY town, but man, if he would just stop being such a stubborn sam, we could get some **** done.

[TinCow]

Did you seriously just claim that the red eye killer is pro-town?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Did you seriously just claim that the red eye killer is pro-town?

Nah, third party probably, but given how Beskar is squirming under pressure, I admit there's a very real possibility he's Samus-ALIGNED.

In fact, if Beskar does not tell me who his partner is, I'm going to suggest that's what he is.

But I am still trying to wrench workable information out of Winston. I have all the time in the world to take one suspect and hammer it against another suspect. There will be blood, and it will likely be mafia blood.

[TinCow]

ATPG, you are awesome. I love that you just outed Beskar as a dead-to-right mafioso, and claim to be doing it in defense of him.

Chaotix, this may end up being a short game, but it may well be the most drama-dense game in Org history. Well done.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh also, if Beskar is not mafia, he's definitely got to stop killing. So hows about not killing anyone tonight Beskar, lest you die tomorrow?

Eh?

If you kill anyone tonight, my sweet little peach, I will be voting for you tomorrow. PROVE that you're actually third party, and don't kill another innocent.

Meanwhile, protector needs to leave Beskar alone and cover Seon, he's the only one in the game I find credible at the moment. I would be tempted to say protect Winston, but I got a funny kinda feeling he's still not being honest somewhere.

[TinCow]

Oh also, if Beskar is not mafia, he's definitely got to stop killing. So hows about not killing anyone tonight Beskar, lest you die tomorrow?

Eh?

If you kill anyone tonight, my sweet little peach, I will be voting for you tomorrow. PROVE that you're actually third party, and don't kill another innocent.

Meanwhile, protector needs to leave Beskar alone and cover Seon, he's the only one in the game I find credible at the moment. I would be tempted to say protect Winston, but I got a funny kinda feeling he's still not being honest somewhere.

ATPG, you really haven't thought this through very well. You seem to be forgetting that Beskar was 'trusted' by a person with the mafia X-Ray Visor ability without being investigated. Still want to advocate he's a third party?