[Council of Villains] A State of Corruption [Concluded]

maybe because he has nothing to say?

fos:ATPG

FYI, Cthulhu Saves the World is the best game I've played all year.

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I dislike the glenn wagon, I feel like he ruffled some feathers mostly.

Post tincow result revealed:





Today 00:18



Today 00:23


He's read the thread and knows about the tincow result, and is still reading closely enough to reply within 5 minutes, but is keeping his distance and apparently enjoying how the events are unfolding.

Wasn't one of the killers blue-eyed and small?

HoS: seon cause I'm still voting for Glenn.

Yes but one of the killers also used ice to kill, didn't they Sasaki.

Originally Posted by Motep

maybe because he has nothing to say?

fos:ATPG

Watch where you point that thing, Motep. It has terrible aim.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Watch where you point that thing, Motep. It has terrible aim.

Originally Posted by YLC

Yes but one of the killers also used ice to kill, didn't they Sasaki.

?

Is sasaki some ice dude?

fingers all around!

But seriously, Pizza. The town is blindly following you. I suspect a trap, honestly. You speak out against a bandwagon on Tincow, and yet you condone one on Nictel. To kill a lurker. A lurker is such a convenient target, no? Always suspect in these games. And so it is easy to push the town into killing them, because most of us tend to look at what is in front of us and ignore what is not there, a nice place for a mafia to be. But we see this, and kill them. And so where else for the mafia to hide but in plain sight? Not only that, but to take a role in guiding the town! But this is suspicious, too, and everyone sees it. And so what must be done now? Hide in lesser places? For some. But it is still good to control the town, and guide them into killing where you want to kill while thinking you are their innocent leader. How do you have this? By claiming a probable role. Another bounty hunter thing? A bit risky, seeing as it could be taken, but with enough care given analysis of such roles (this one could probably kill) you can pick one that is unlikely to be taken. And so: fos: Kojiro
A good friend to have along, two people both herding the town, coming from opposite directions and converging for the "greater good". I still levy my suspicions, and it is late, and my mind is semi-erratic, and this may not make a whole lot of sense as I may have missed a few details that are important but I think that the ultimate reason for this here already.

vote:ATPG

Originally Posted by pevergreen

?

Is sasaki some ice dude?

Sasaki is Rundas - http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Rundas

Which means Sylux, Ghor, Spire, Kanden, Weavel, Noxus, Gandrayda as well as the now dead Trace are all in. Watch out for Sylux, he is after Samus - he'll behave as if he is a vig when he is actually neutral with the ability to detect Samus and possibly others who have joined her cause.

Originally Posted by YLC

Sasaki is Rundas - http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Rundas

Which means Sylux, Ghor, Spire, Kanden, Weavel, Noxus, Gandrayda as well as the now dead Trace are all in. Watch out for Sylux, he is after Samus - he'll behave as if he is a vig when he is actually neutral with the ability to detect Samus and possibly others who have joined her cause.

We have no way to say that they are all in this.

Originally Posted by Motep

We have no way to say that they are all in this.

I see no reason not to suspect that.

Originally Posted by YLC

I see no reason not to suspect that.

They could all be in. But, they might not all be in. How did the other games roll when it comes to sets such as these?

Well, I'm dead, so I can't vote, and I can't really figure out between the leading candidates who's mafia, as I haven't taken the time to go look through their posts.

As tradition between me and Nictel dictates that one of us must be somehow responsible for the death of the other, it's possible he killed me. If not, I suggest that he be lynched anyway, so that my suggestion may be somehow responsible for his death. :D

Originally Posted by Motep

fingers all around!

But seriously, Pizza. The town is blindly following you. I suspect a trap, honestly.

Close!

(It's a tarp)

You know who complains about the town blindly following me to their doom, and I mean A LOT?

You speak out against a bandwagon on Tincow, and yet you condone one on Nictel.

The only way to actually lynch someone is to place more than one vote on them so.... yeah.....

I fail to grasp your point, which you obviously think you have, but is invisible to me.

To kill a lurker. A lurker is such a convenient target, no? Always suspect in these games.

Not really. We've backed off of the "lynch the lurkers" thing for a while now, and for good reason. You do it enough and all the mafia has to do is not lurk and their odds of victory skyrocket.

Nictel's not lurking, either. He's shown up every round. He's simply not CONTRIBUTING when he obviously could be doing so. By my calculations that's either a basic townie or a mafia ducking suspicion, which BTW you'd know if you read any of my posts this round. Why you're accusing me of starting a wagon on a lurker, is beyond me, and it speaks to you not putting much thought into your FOS and subsequent vote on me.

And so it is easy to push the town into killing them, because most of us tend to look at what is in front of us and ignore what is not there, a nice place for a mafia to be. But we see this, and kill them. And so where else for the mafia to hide but in plain sight?

Well, they could also hide in not plain sight, or perhaps someplace in between....

Not only that, but to take a role in guiding the town! But this is suspicious, too, and everyone sees it. And so what must be done now? Hide in lesser places? For some. But it is still good to control the town, and guide them into killing where you want to kill while thinking you are their innocent leader. How do you have this? By claiming a probable role. Another bounty hunter thing? A bit risky, seeing as it could be taken, but with enough care given analysis of such roles (this one could probably kill) you can pick one that is unlikely to be taken. And so: fos: Kojiro

.....

Maybe you're unaware of this, but the logic you're using here is pretty tortured.

No offense, but when you ask yourself no less than six leading questions in order to arrive at your conclusion, it is reminiscent of something else.

A good friend to have along, two people both herding the town, coming from opposite directions and converging for the "greater good". I still levy my suspicions, and it is late, and my mind is semi-erratic, and this may not make a whole lot of sense as I may have missed a few details that are important but I think that the ultimate reason for this here already.

vote:ATPG

Who had the most to gain from the double lynch yesterday? Could it be the mafia? Yes.... and WHO, my friends, would have the audacity not to vote for either of the tied candidates, in order to maintain the tie, and therefore cause two innocent people to die? Why the mafia of course. So the one who did not vote for the tie was actually most responsible, and therefore the most guilty.

FoS: Askthepizzaguy, for not leading the town toward disaster. As we all know, bad moves are usually townie moves, and moves that look wise in retrospect are caused by perfect information syndrome. You thought you could get away with it, but I agree with Motep, you've been leading the town astray by having lead the lynch on no one so far, which actually makes you the lead sheep herder of them all.

You thought you could get away with it with your logic and reasonableness and your not actually doing what you've been accused of, but I see through such simple tricks.

J'accuse, Pizzahut boy!

Nictel hasn't logged in or flinched at all since I began this wagon on him.

I would expect some sort of reaction by now if I were right. Still possible he's guilty and hasn't read a word of this, but my suspicions are starting to waver.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Close!

The only way to actually lynch someone is to place more than one vote on them so.... yeah.....

Ensuring the death of everyone you want to kill and noone who is the brainchild of anyone else. "Dont bandwagon on anybody unless I call for it, and only I call for it."

I fail to grasp your point, which you obviously think you have, but is invisible to me.

I am not the most clear person, I am afraid. And I am sorry if I have confused you.

Not really. We've backed off of the "lynch the lurkers" thing for a while now, and for good reason. You do it enough and all the mafia has to do is not lurk and their odds of victory skyrocket.

My spirit soars to hear this news. My experience on the matter is a bit out of date, and I am personally glad we got away from this. But if we stay away from the lurkers entirely, than we make another safe spot.

Nictel's not lurking, either. He's shown up every round. He's simply not CONTRIBUTING when he obviously could be doing so. By my calculations that's either a basic townie or a mafia ducking suspicion, which BTW you'd know if you read any of my posts this round. Why you're accusing me of starting a wagon on a lurker, is beyond me, and it speaks to you not putting much thought into your FOS and subsequent vote on me.

Even better then! Not lurking, but being barely active to not count as a lurker. Someone lazy? Someone who is busy now and is staving off a loss of his place for inactivity? Besides, with lurkers in clear suspicion, what next place to look than those simply avoiding that? I dont think mafia would be this stupid.

Well, they could also hide in not plain sight, or perhaps someplace in between....

The least suspicious place, that plain little thing that doesnt repel your eye but does not really draw it for too long. Loud obnoxious thing? Suspicious activity. A risky place, but one managable for the clever, and a place well worth the risk if played right. You and kojiro? I do not doubt in the least that you could pull this off.

Maybe you're unaware of this, but the logic you're using here is pretty tortured.

No offense, but when you ask yourself no less than six leading questions in order to arrive at your conclusion, it is reminiscent of something else.

I have to say, that is very amusing. I was going against both of you, but I realized he had not been included yet and I threw him in there in a way that seemed appropriate. My making of these posts is very linear, and I dont look back. Given enough time and effort, I could have polished that until it gleamed, but this is somewhat time sensitive. To top that off, I am somewhat lazy myself, and I do not really care if you think my logic is tortured. My mind is tortured! It is moving faster than my fingers, and I am merely trying to jot down what I recall of what I thought. I give it to you not on the premise that it is what is right, but that it is a possibilty. You guys may very well be happy, helpful people. And in the event of this, I am terribly sorry for bothering your work, but it is almost....too powerful. By following you two, and only you two, we cull out all other thought, and we become lazier and more vulnerable in the event that you are scum.

Who had the most to gain from the double lynch yesterday? Could it be the mafia? Yes.... and WHO, my friends, would have the audacity not to vote for either of the tied candidates, in order to maintain the tie, and therefore cause two innocent people to die? Why the mafia of course. So the one who did not vote for the tie was actually most responsible, and therefore the most guilty.

Those who pushed for, and those who let it happen. I was a bit late in my vote and was, admittedly, snoozing on the trigger. I will try to do better in the future to prevent such attrocities from occuring.

FoS: Askthepizzaguy, for not leading the town toward disaster. As we all know, bad moves are usually townie moves, and moves that look wise in retrospect are caused by perfect information syndrome. You thought you could get away with it, but I agree with Motep, you've been leading the town astray by having lead the lynch on no one so far, which actually makes you the lead sheep herder of them all.

You thought you could get away with it with your logic and reasonableness and your not actually doing what you've been accused of, but I see through such simple tricks.
J'accuse, Pizzahut boy!

Nobody is perfect.

EDIT: Sorry it took so long to respond. I have munchies, and needed to munch.

Originally Posted by Motep

They could all be in. But, they might not all be in. How did the other games roll when it comes to sets such as these?

If there is no reason not to suspect that all of them are in, then it is to be assumed de facto that all are in. Or are you privy to information that we do not have at the general towns disposal?

Originally Posted by YLC

If there is no reason not to suspect that all of them are in, then it is to be assumed de facto that all are in. Or are you privy to information that we do not have at the general towns disposal?

I wish I was. Only once in these games, if I recall, was I ever given a useful role. I try to avoid assuming things. On the off chance that we are wrong, it could be disastrous. I am just curious as to whether they are all included, or if greater variety is striven for here. They may very well all be here. Also, if they are all here, and there is already a managerie of roles for the GF, then I doubt they are all on the same side. Kojiro may have the role, you know, but the GF(Survivalist) could be a bunch of poo.

Originally Posted by Motep

Ensuring the death of everyone you want to kill and noone who is the brainchild of anyone else. "Dont bandwagon on anybody unless I call for it, and only I call for it."

Classical_hero is still alive, isn't he? What about Johnhughthom? How about Beefy? I haven't ensured the death of anyone so far. It's not a foregone conclusion on Nictel either.

But if we stay away from the lurkers entirely, than we make another safe spot.

I try not to lynch people for being a lurker-style player; I try to lynch people for subtle behavioral abnormalities. The ones that demonstrate a different brain wave pattern from normal, while still attempting to behave normally and failing at it in small ways.

Those are the mistakes which are the hardest for the mafia to avoid making: ones they aren't aware of.

Even better then! Not lurking, but being barely active to not count as a lurker. Someone lazy? Someone who is busy now and is staving off a loss of his place for inactivity? Besides, with lurkers in clear suspicion, what next place to look than those simply avoiding that? I dont think mafia would be this stupid.

Mafia have been known to employ every strategy. Lurking, pretending to be totally inactive, voting once per round, abstaining most rounds, keeping activity low but just out of the danger zone, trying to find the happy middle sweet spot, and being a talkative bag of hot air like me. Mafia would be "this stupid", trust me on that. This is exactly how I'd picture Nictel behaving as mafia if he was trying to keep his head down. The trouble is, it's also possible he's behaving that way as town and it just looks like guilty behavior. I don't know.

The least suspicious place, that plain little thing that doesnt repel your eye but does not really draw it for too long. Loud obnoxious thing? Suspicious activity. A risky place, but one managable for the clever, and a place well worth the risk if played right. You and kojiro? I do not doubt in the least that you could pull this off.

I could live with being lynched based on the premise that my behavior is a probable strategy I'd use if I were mafia. It's a weak case, and a wrong one, but at least it's an attempt at solving the game through thinking instead of randomness.

I do not really care if you think my logic is tortured.

It is. However, the point is not whether or not your case lacks logic; the point is, is the case correct or not?

In my case, no. You're off target here. No amount of good logic could save your case. No amount of bad logic will make it any worse. However, if you wanted to lynch someone, I would suggest making sure the logic adds up first; people do respond to that, especially when they're indecisive. Case in point; this round itself.

Dirty little secret: Not everything you say has to make sense or be accurate to matter. What matters is where your vote ends up, and who gets lynched. If I had to lie through my teeth and speak gibberish in order to get votes on the correct candidates, that would still be a winning move. Putting a "case" together on someone has exactly one purpose; making your vote more appealing for others to follow. It has no impact on the rightness or wrongness of your vote.

And that's coming from me, mister giganti-case.

I am terribly sorry for bothering your work, but it is almost....too powerful. By following you two, and only you two, we cull out all other thought, and we become lazier and more vulnerable in the event that you are scum.

I have no power but what others give me. I don't actually control brain waves. If people want to ignore my cases they can do so. If they want to blame me alone when the cases turn out right or wrong, they may do so. However, this is still a democracy and they're entitled to ignore me and follow their own instincts. That's a nagging little piece of reality that no one likes to talk about because it involves owning one's own behavior, and that's just yicky. Blaming someone else is like delicious cake.

Originally Posted by ATPG

Classical_hero is still alive, isn't he? What about Johnhughthom? How about Beefy? I haven't ensured the death of anyone so far. It's not a foregone conclusion on Nictel either.

Fun, no?

I try not to lynch people for being a lurker-style player; I try to lynch people for subtle behavioral abnormalities. The ones that demonstrate a different brain wave pattern from normal, while still attempting to behave normally and failing at it in small ways.

A good tactic, and I would employ it if I had experience with these people to go by. But, I guess I just suck soo much that it strangles me and threatens to kill everyone around me. So, even if I did have experience, it would be moot.

I could live with being lynched based on the premise that my behavior is a probable strategy I'd use if I were mafia. It's a weak case, and a wrong one, but at least it's an attempt at solving the game through thinking instead of randomness.

Ah, but if you were mafia....this is how you would act. So, we cannot exactly trust your claims of innocence, now can we?

It is. However, the point is not whether or not your case lacks logic; the point is, is the case correct or not?

time will tell, and only time. Nothing is certain.

In my case, no. You're off target here. No amount of good logic could save your case. No amount of bad logic will make it any worse. However, if you wanted to lynch someone, I would suggest making sure the logic adds up first; people do respond to that, especially when they're indecisive. Case in point; this round itself.

Dirty little secret: Not everything you say has to make sense or be accurate to matter. What matters is where your vote ends up, and who gets lynched. If I had to lie through my teeth and speak gibberish in order to get votes on the correct candidates, that would still be a winning move. Putting a "case" together on someone has exactly one purpose; making your vote more appealing for others to follow. It has no impact on the rightness or wrongness of your vote.

And that's coming from me, mister giganti-case.

I have no power but what others give me. I don't actually control brain waves. If people want to ignore my cases they can do so. If they want to blame me alone when the cases turn out right or wrong, they may do so. However, this is still a democracy and they're entitled to ignore me and follow their own instincts. That's a nagging little piece of reality that no one likes to talk about because it involves owning one's own behavior, and that's just yicky. Blaming someone else is like delicious cake.

One of the main reasons I am doing this is to get these indecisive people to think for themselves instead of placing their trust in one person. But, if there is someone to trust, and you are actually not out to get us all, than I could see them doing much worse than you. Another reason is because it is fun. Another reason is because I need practice. Another reason is because I need something to do when my girlfriend is replying. The final reason, of course, is me putting off sleep as I still quest for food and need to think of what else I could eat in this foriegn house!!! They dont have any fruit....

EDIT: Screw it. She went to bed, the food here is pre-processed poo, I am tired, and I need to cram two weeks of homework into tomorrow afternoon. I would love to stay and chat, but I have better reasons to sleep than to stay. I hope you enjoy your sleep, and I hope you are not scum. Whether or not you are scum, you are a wonderful opponent, and well above my meagre abilities for such things. But if I don't put my foot in the water for fear of being embarassed by better swimmers, how will I ever become a better swimmer?

Are you kidding me? Sorry that I have a life.
Vote: Askthepizzaguy Cause he is clearly trying to save his mafia buddy. Also your big posts day 2 are really strange you usually only start those when people are trying to lynch you, scared?

Furthermore I say we lynch everyone that voted for me. "Bandwagons are bad" "No don't vote tincow he only had an investigator say he was guilty" "I will not participate on a bandwagon against tincow" "tincow hasn't said anything lets not lynch him"

"Hey Nictel has only posted once on New years day. LETS ALL LYNCH HIM WITHOUT REASON!"

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

No, check all of his posts.

Abstain, abstain, not contributing, posting and intentionally not voting. He's not absent, he's either not giving a darn or he's trying to avoid suspicion.

This happened before New Years, plus he doesn't get a pass if he shows up and still doesn't vote.

It's been two day phases and he's posted in both of them, to say nothing both times.

Good point. Then again, you could just be trying to save your scum buddy tincow with this wagon on Nictel. Vote: Abstain

Originally Posted by Nictel

Are you kidding me? Sorry that I have a life.
Vote: Askthepizzaguy Cause he is clearly trying to save his mafia buddy. Also your big posts day 2 are really strange you usually only start those when people are trying to lynch you, scared?

Furthermore I say we lynch everyone that voted for me. "Bandwagons are bad" "No don't vote tincow he only had an investigator say he was guilty" "I will not participate on a bandwagon against tincow" "tincow hasn't said anything lets not lynch him"

"Hey Nictel has only posted once on New years day. LETS ALL LYNCH HIM WITHOUT REASON!"

He's kinda got a point, it is odd that pizza goes on a lengthy tirade on only turn 2 when he's not being bandwagoned.

The bandwagon is getting reversed?

So I put myself on the line in this game, to actually reveal this information on behalf of an investigator, just so we as the town can strike the mafia hard in day two and you just fail around like total n00bs?

If TinCow doesn't get lynched today, the town deserves to fail, because not lynching him he one of the most moronic moves in existence. We have pretty much 100% proof that TinCow is a mafia, and you are there, voting randomly on people who could just be a random n00b townie.

Sorry Chaotix, your game looks great so far, so nothing being said about you, but seriously town, it is not even funny, get your act together and stop being such fools.

VOTE: TINCOW
It's 99.99999% Certain he is mafia scum

Originally Posted by Nictel

Cause he is clearly trying to save his mafia buddy.

It's funny that you say this, because it's the exact feeling I had about someone else adamant about lynching you.

"I will not participate on a bandwagon against tincow"

Gameroom culture, unfortunately.

I'm sorry Beskar, the big words rule is already being used to get Double A lynched.

You're going to have to wait your turn.

Let's look at some "arguments" which are so stupid, they need to be countered once and for all.

"Let's roleblock TinCow, and we can get information out of him!"

Why this is a very bad idea?
This is bad on multiple levels.
Who is the roleblocker, does he even exist? Why use up a roleblocker on a known mafia, when he could help against unknown mafia? What information would TinCow ever reveal which will serve any real purpose? "Oh no... don't kill me, I will give you the names of my mafia partners?" ?

"Those investigation results didn't reveal anything, lets ignore them"

This person is either trying to cover for the mafia or just dumb.
The results say "Corrupted Cloud Strife" "Phazon faction". We know the town is GF and Hero faction, and they are not one of them, and Phazon's are bad guys in the Metroid series. In short, the result says "TinCow (Mafia)". That is accurate enough for me and should be for any townie.


"The investigation might be a fake!!111eleven"

Well then, how do you test a fake?
BY LYNCHING THE SUSPECTED MAFIA, LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH, IF NOT MAFIA, LYNCH THE INVESTIGATOR!

Originally Posted by Secura

Gameroom culture, unfortunately.

I usually consider TinCow's posts as pure wisdom.
This does not impede the random.org's chance of making him part of a mafia faction. If he isn't, I'm going to know I can trust his posts fully. But I'm still going to vote him. I'd urge others to join in; part of the lesson ATPG ended SW:FOTO with about bandwagons is that unstoppable bandwagons are bad since they ruin a day's discussion. But it also says that once discussion's through and the day is drawing to a close, you should pick the best case and stick with it. The best case today is TinCow.

I detest the idea of lynching someone who's not responded at all, like Nictel. Yes, he might be mafia, but he's got a nerve to lie low like this. I think he's just absent, and could be any role, even a strong protown role. We wouldn't know, because he's silent. I remember starting a Lord Of The Rings game off like this (on CFC). The silent D1 lynch was Aragorn. I'd rather lynch an exposed member of a mafia team.

Unvote: Nictel

9 Nictel (ATPGuy, Winston Hughes, sasaki, TinCow, Beefy, YLC, cecil, Death is yonder, khaan)

9 TinCow (Beskar, Skooma Addict, autolycus, johnhughtom, Insanious, classical_hero, Secura, ironside, Diamondeye)

6 Glenn (Romanic, Frozen In Ice, Jarema, Double A, Rebel Jeb, woad&fangs)

1 Insanious (landlubber)

1 Rebel Jeb (Glenn)

1 Beskar (Yaropolk)

1 Thefluffyone (Thefluffyone)

1 ATPG (Motep [Did not unvote], Nictel)

1 Motep (God Emperor)

4 Abstaining (Nightbringer, Capt. Blackadder, Motep, Link)

Landlubber is scummy imo.

Originally Posted by Diamondeye

I usually consider TinCow's posts as pure wisdom.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, but what the Dickens has that got to do with anything when he's faced with a scan result that says he's mafia? Because he's a good contributor, we should leave him alive regardless of scan results against him?

I love the Gameroom, I really do, but this blind reverance of anything and everything that certain people say is just... frustrating as town or mafia; if it was Beskar revealed in such a manner as TinCow has been, people wouldn't be so hesistant to lynch him, would they?

This isn't a tirade against you DE, by the way. :/

The way that I see it, even if we lynched TinCow and it turned out that he was town, it wouldn't prevent him from contributing as the rules allow the dead to have their say as long as they don't reveal information they had prior to death; he could still chip in regarding lynches, his thoughts and such. He's still as influencial in death as he is in life, perhaps moreso because his role's been revealed and we know whether to trust him or not.

The only thing we lose, if he is town, is his scanning ability which apparantly isn't that much of a big deal anyway.

I detest the idea of lynching someone who's not responded at all, like Nictel.

Especially as it's just been the busiest holiday season of the year, I think the lurkers have to be given a little slack at this stage; it shouldn't and won't wash later in the game, though.

Unvote; Vote: Tincow , after speaking a bit with Beskar