[Council of Villains] A State of Corruption [Concluded]

[Double A]

I wonder what kind of blow if any Dark Samus dying does to the team. It would suck if all they lost was a member and could still recruit, because then even if two went down more could easily be recruited. Then again recruiting people who can't kill just yet doesn't do much.

To all IDFH: Team Dark Samus is likely weakened now with two down and some probably exposed, just don't bother joining them anymore.

I have a feeling Samus and Dark Samus are a bit more important than your average mafioso

Wow AA, what's up with you in this game? I'm seeing some analysis, some good reasons to place a vote, and now you're answering my question on mafia having the ability to kill their voters in a previous CoV game.

I just don't recognize you. Anyway, thanks for answering.

Could have something to do with me being Bowser in a game about Bowser, but you know, it might just have been the write-ups.

[Jarema]

I think that we can let ATPG live for now and let him do dirty work for us...
If there is a lot of scanners (I suppose they would be confirmed after next night or two) then ATPG should do some killing.
The thing that worries me is that apparently only Beskar has some amount of control over ATPG doings. And I am not 100% sure, if Beskar's intentions are clear. At this moment, he is the one that we should be affraid of.
Of course, decision about ATPG dead must be made at some point and it must not be too long from now; he can still be lying about details of his role, we must be prepared for situation in which he survives a lynch

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think that we can let ATPG live for now and let him do dirty work for us...
If there is a lot of scanners (I suppose they would be confirmed after next night or two) then ATPG should do some killing.
The thing that worries me is that apparently only Beskar has some amount of control over ATPG doings. And I am not 100% sure, if Beskar's intentions are clear. At this moment, he is the one that we should be affraid of.
Of course, decision about ATPG dead must be made at some point and it must not be too long from now; he can still be lying about details of his role, we must be prepared for situation in which he survives a lynch

I offered to put my kills up for the vote. "Be a second lynch".

You can overrule Beskar if there's enough of you and you've got a convincing reason. I still think Beskar's doing an excellent job.

TBH all this focus on what to do with me is a little disappointing. Think about who Samus is first. Help me kill it.

[Romanic]

Sadly, I could, but no one would believe me.

Chaotix told me, after the lynch of Dark Samus, that he would count such a lynch as part of a victory condition so long as I was voting for the correct candidate, because he neglected to discuss in my role PM what counts as a Ridley kill or not, so he clarified. I assumed it was murder only; frankly this seems a bit easy but I don't have long for this dimension so who am I to complain.

I have not failed my primary objective yet. I told Beskar already when I found out, but I honestly don't think anyone would believe me, and I honestly don't see why they would. So here's the deal: I kill Samus or lynch Samus, I will then have achieved my primary objective. Then, lynch me if you wanna. I don't need to prove a darn thing to anyone, as I've already met my goal in such a circumstance. Doesn't matter if you believe me or not, as I'll be nice and dead so you won't have to worry about it. And likely Samus kills me before then anyway, so this is all entirely moot unless really bizarre scenario happens and I survive several more rounds.

Why do I regret asking about that?

I won't bother validating this with Beskar, no doubt he'll say "sure, Pizza told me!", whether that's true or a way to keep you alive. It does look too easy an answer, but I'm tempted to believe you, if only because you found Dark Samus yesterday.

I left nothing out; I already described, and in detail, publicly, what the ability does. I don't see what is ambiguous about it. There's nothing more to it than what I already stated.

Okay, I wanted to make sure before going to my next point.

I'm having trouble believing you when you said that's all the powers you have. From my point of view the ability to kill someone is awesome to achieve your goal while Thermal Vision is a big MEH.

I understand how Thermal Vision can help you find the 2 Samus, after all it's likely that they will be active every night, so anyone positively acting at night could be one of them but...

Why would you consider using this ability when you can kill someone and see immediately if he was one of your targets? It's not like you're supposed to care about your target, you're neutral, without a friend. Plus, with people gaining new powers, it's likely that this ability will become useless over time.

Bottom line, Thermal Vision seems incredibly pointless, unless I'm missing something.

Conclusion: You probably didn't use it on N1, or you're not telling the whole story about this power, or you have 3+ powers.

[Romanic]

Dear Meta-Ridley and Phazon-Corrupted (and everyone else too)
Based on today and stuff I can't discuss since I'm dead, I'm fairly certain Frozen in Ice is scum and specifically Samus scum. Might I suggest you kill him?
Thanks,
Mr. Dead Quarantine Officer.

Oh boy, would I like to hear how you come to that conclusion!

I'll ring The Ridley Pizzaman to see if he's free for the job.

*ring* *ring*

(....)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Okay, I wanted to make sure before going to my next point.

I'm having trouble believing you when you said that's all the powers you have. From my point of view the ability to kill someone is awesome to achieve your goal while Thermal Vision is a big MEH.

Talk to the game designer. I just work here.

I understand how Thermal Vision can help you find the 2 Samus, after all it's likely that they will be active every night, so anyone positively acting at night could be one of them but...

But?

Why would you consider using this ability when you can kill someone and see immediately if he was one of your targets? It's not like you're supposed to care about your target, you're neutral, without a friend. Plus, with people gaining new powers, it's likely that this ability will become useless over time.

Oh but Romanic, what better way to blend in with the pro-town roles, which would explain my awesome night defenses, than to have a scanning power?

Come on, I gave Kagemusha, the Dark Lord of the Sith, the ability to defend other Jedi at night with a move that risks his life (even though he is still kinda built like a tank). Why give the Dark Lord that? To look really, really...... REALLY townie. Because I'm evil like that.

And you said it yourself, it can help me locate the 2 Samus. Already found one, though it wasn't MY thermal scan that found her. Minor technicality.

Bottom line, Thermal Vision seems incredibly pointless, unless I'm missing something.

Conclusion: You probably didn't use it on N1, or you're not telling the whole story about this power, or you have 3+ powers.

Ask Seon, who also claims to have Thermal scan.

I get why you're not believing the face value, but there's nothing up my sleeve here.

I am a very atypical serial killer role. I never would have revealed to Beskar what I was if I thought I absolutely had to kill him and everyone else in the game. And if I did, yes, probably wouldn't have bothered scanning, except for WIFOM purposes or to give myself an alibi.

I can indeed win with the town, as nuts as that sounds. But yeah you'll have to wait until the end of the game and just sit there jaw agape when you see I was telling the truth about all this.

Might I suggest that Chaotix could have been inspired by the Dark Jedi in my game when coming up with such a role? Floating a theory. Kill everyone to win, or wipe out the mafia? Similar win conditions here.

[Greyblades]

Ok I just had a scary thought, its already established that pizza is ridley and his objective obviously is to kill samus, well what then? If we help him kill samus I have a bad feeling we wont have a chance to lynch him afterwards.

Think about it, do you realy think that ridley gives a toss about the mooks that make up the town? He's a space dragon he could take out the ship easily and from what I know about metroid, which is pretty little admittedly, samus is the only person to successfully beat him. Well we allready killed off one samus (technically), somehow I dont think ridley is going to sit on his haunches after both are dead.

Call me paranoid, I just have a bad feeling that if samus dies before ridley the game will end with ridley chowing down on the now helpless town.

[Jarema]

TBH all this focus on what to do with me is a little disappointing. Think about who Samus is first. Help me kill it.

Yes, I bet you will like us to concentrate only on that :)

EDIT: I feel that Greyblades is right

[Romanic]

@ATPG :

Okay, point granted. Thermal Vision is a good way to appear Town, being crappy and all, but it doesn't explain why you chose to use it instead of killing someone on Night 1. Perhaps you can run me through the thoughts you had?

---

Seon claimed having Thermal Vision?! Interesting. I thought that he claimed a scanning power, without precising which one. At least, that's what post #882 says:

May I say something?

Killing me in a lynch is as a bad idea as killing a night investigator in a lynch.

Missed it if he talked about it in another post. Searched the thread briefly, can't find it either. Please explain.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@ATPG :

Okay, point granted. Thermal Vision is a good way to appear Town, being crappy and all, but it doesn't explain why you chose to use it instead of killing someone on Night 1. Perhaps you can run me through the thoughts you had?

Here's what I sent Chaotix:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

RIDLEY CRUSH NIGHTBRINGER

RIDLEY BRING PAIN TO BRINGER OF NIGHT

RIDLEY BRINGER OF DEATH

DIE NIGHTBRINGER DIE



On another note, may I ask, can I use Fire Strike and thermal visor at the same time? Or is it an either/or situation?

If I may use them at the same time, then I use thermal visor on Double A. If not, then just kill Nightbringer.

If I get investigated night one, whatevs. Should I really expect anything less?

Response was, I can only use one. Then I asked what the point of Thermal Visor was, and he replied something something something not going to get into it here, something something.

Why would I ever use Thermal Visor? I'm a serial killer with a mission to kill two people.

And a response, and then:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The problem is, if I find such players, I will then have to wait until the next night to finish them. In the meantime, I am worrying about being lynched, blocked, investigated, etc etc. I've had a string of good fortune and I'm about due for that to end. If I manage to use a night action on the correct person, I want it to be death.

But very well....

Switch up my actions. Instead of kill nightbringer, perform a thermal scanning action on woad&fangs.

That way I can claim vigilante later. I think I satisfied my bloodlust in the Zelda game.

So that's why. I felt a vigilante claim could buy me time. No, apparently claiming SK is better than claiming doctor with you people.

( sorry, I just felt the need to point out that I love you guys, but there is absolutely no way I or anyone else could possibly plan for your reactions.)

Seon claimed having Thermal Vision?! Interesting. I thought that he claimed a scanning power, without precising which one. At least, that's what post #882 says:

Missed it if he talked about it in another post. Searched the thread briefly, can't find it either. Please explain.

I am almost dead certain he posted it somewhere. Getting to be 8AM my time though, and mind is slowly disintegrating.

Question: If I answer another dozen questions, will you guys still lynch me anyway, without letting me try to kill the tomboy? If so, I politely excuse myself to catch a dirt nap.

[Renata]

Pizza scanned TinCow, I think, and has since been passing off his full scan power as something lesser. (He got a twinge of suspicion on Tincow that day; no one else did.) That's what I think. But if it wasn't Pizza, it was Samus, whether Samus is Beskar or someone else, because Samus has motive to check out someone like TinCow for recruitment potential on night one -- same reason TinCow checked out Sasaki. No one else but a metagaming dink investigates him that early.

[TinCow]

That is incorrect. Your reveal of Pizza guaranteed her lynch, before that, she wasn't most likely getting lynched at all.

You misunderstand my statement. No, she wasn't going to be lynched today, but she was almost certainly going to be lynched tomorrow. On a review of the situation, it was decided that the odds of getting her out of the situation were lower tomorrow than they were today. While she would have gotten one more night of killing tonight, that wouldn't have made any difference to the result of the game. So, we believed our best move was to simply try make the move earlier when it had better odds of saving her.

[Renata]

That is incorrect. Your reveal of Pizza guaranteed her lynch, before that, she wasn't most likely getting lynched at all.

Meh. I knew it was a risk, but AtPG was doing his magic tricks and I'd just gotten about four new votes one right after the other. I was also pinned by stuff I can't refer to that made my lynch an inevitability sooner or later and probably sooner, so going for the big temporary distraction became more attractive. Still, if I could have been around to argue my case I don't think we'd have had to do it that way, but you saw how cruddy my reveal was. I had like two minutes here and ten minutes there to discuss the situation, come up with a plan, and execute it. Normal tactics just weren't an option. I think TinCow did the right thing despite that it failed. (Have I mentioned how much I hate having RL issues when I'm mafia?)

[Askthepizzaguy]

You misunderstand my statement. No, she wasn't going to be lynched today, but she was almost certainly going to be lynched tomorrow. On a review of the situation, it was decided that the odds of getting her out of the situation were lower tomorrow than they were today. While she would have gotten one more night of killing tonight, that wouldn't have made any difference to the result of the game. So, we believed our best move was to simply try make the move earlier when it had better odds of saving her.

You guys nearly got me, too. I was reading the thread as I came home from work and saw the wagon reverse and I felt a tightness in my stomach and I had a pouty face on.

The last hour or so was amazing. You had people standing around going "is it a tie? should we make it a tie? Who's vote counted?" and here I'm expecting mafia to swoop in and kick my metal butt, and that's all she wrote.

That probably was the most exciting round of mafia I've ever played in. I can die happy now, even if it means I lose.



I'm going to venture an opinion that the Samus team was able to detect Renata somehow, and blackmail her. I don't know who else would have unused leverage on her in this situation besides me, and it wasn't me.

[Csargo]

Call me paranoid, I just have a bad feeling that if samus dies before ridley the game will end with ridley chowing down on the now helpless town.

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of as well.

[classical_hero]

That was one crazy end of the day. I only just got to reading it after work and it was quite exciting to read. This is why is sucks being on the other side of the world, since I miss all the action when it happens. :(

[TinCow]

The last hour or so was amazing. You had people standing around going "is it a tie? should we make it a tie? Who's vote counted?" and here I'm expecting mafia to swoop in and kick my metal butt, and that's all she wrote.

There was nothing we could do about it. A last minute save like that would have ended in the same result we were trying to avoid in the first place. We were playing for a runaway bandwagon on you, not a close tie like that. The only potential salvation at that point was to get some of the IDFH players voting how we wanted, but I was never able to figure out a method of informing them who to vote for without both exposing Renata and the Agents. Some situations just can't be solved with trickery, no matter how hard you work at it. And trust me, I worked at it... you have no idea how mentally debilitating it was to create that entire system only for it to become pointless after a single night. I had to do all that on-the-fly in the space of about 6 hours, while also getting as much information as I could out of people by PMs. I was exhilarated that it actually worked, which makes the whole pointlessness of it that much more deflating.

[Renata]

*huggles my corrupted cloud strife*

Maybe next time, eh, TinCow?

[TinCow]

Maybe next time, eh, TinCow?

Don't hold your breath. If current trends hold, next time I'm on a scum team with other living players will be June 2012.

[Askthepizzaguy]

There was nothing we could do about it. A last minute save like that would have ended in the same result we were trying to avoid in the first place. We were playing for a runaway bandwagon on you, not a close tie like that. The only potential salvation at that point was to get some of the IDFH players voting how we wanted, but I was never able to figure out a method of informing them who to vote for without both exposing Renata and the Agents. Some situations just can't be solved with trickery, no matter how hard you work at it. And trust me, I worked at it... you have no idea how mentally debilitating it was to create that entire system only for it to become pointless after a single night. I had to do all that on-the-fly in the space of about 6 hours, while also getting as much information as I could out of people by PMs. I was exhilarated that it actually worked, which makes the whole pointlessness of it that much more deflating.

Do you realize I had already gone into townie mode by the third day, and I was depressed by how well you pulled off your own death?

I thought that was the best exit ever. Even with potential infiltration possibilities, which, not kidding myself, were probably not all that realistic, I still felt you could have had half the town on your side and you were knocking out GF recruitables left and right. I felt for sure you'd have a dozen recruits lined up.

I still didn't know for sure how I could manipulate you into giving up Dark Samus; I was hoping just getting the murders off of me would be enough to keep me around long enough to whack the both of you, but seriously, I told a bunch of people that the wind was knocked out of my sails and that Dark Samus team was going to win.

I gotta find out what happened which ruined your chances before myself and the others got to pressuring Renata. I am already anxious for the postgame.

If you want to hear a story about pointless brilliance, I'll tell you about the time I had dual quicktopics on a different forum; one for our actual discussion, and the other was our "mason" quicktopic. It was days and days of pure, steaming horse manure that matched our cover stories and fit everything that was happening as it happened, and my teammates were going along with it, until the game host ruled it was too OOC to be used and we got pwned by detectives FAST.

I felt like I had witnessed the birth of kittens, only to see them get flattened by a cement mixer. I feel ya; your moves were breathtaking and I was jealous of how you turned a bad situation around.

[Renata]

Things can change. I went eight or nine months without getting any mafia roles at all, but currently I'm almost as bad as Atheotes' reputation.

Edit: @TinCow, obviously.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

That is incorrect. Your reveal of Pizza guaranteed her lynch, before that, she wasn't most likely getting lynched at all.

I find this very doubtful, she was not acting her usual self this game and the reveal of pizza mainly convinced pizza I think, since revealing pizza was always the right move for mafia.

[Renata]

Yep, I'm always not my usual self when I'm mafia. Count on it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I find this very doubtful, she was not acting her usual self this game and the reveal of pizza mainly convinced pizza I think, since revealing pizza was always the right move for mafia.

It was the timing; I had JUST asked Renata to be inactive tonight while I had her scanned by a thermal scan. She said ok, and not much else. Then Tincow's reaction seemed, from my perspective, to be throwing me to the wolves for no reason in the middle of a round that had already been extended. The timing was really odd.

After reviewing my moves, I concluded that the most likely reason for all of this was that I got too close to forcing Dark Samus to be inactive at night. Either that or I had just revealed to one of TC's minions that passed it along to him in code.

If it was just really, really bad timing, goodie anyway; but that's what it looked like to me.

I tend to be suspicious of any reasonless sudden desire to kill me, no matter what excuses get thrown into the post which does it. Timing is very important; Sasaki suspecting me wasn't strange timing, he had been doing it for a while. Tincow's sudden reversal, and other people's, does not feel natural. Because it's not; changing your mind so dramatically in the middle of an extended round doesn't add up.

[Renata]

Wait was that round extended? Shows how out of it I was, I didn't even realize. What IS it with my mafia fate and extended rounds lately? It is always bad news, every single time.

[Ironside]

I tend to be suspicious of any reasonless sudden desire to kill me, no matter what excuses get thrown into the post which does it. Timing is very important; Sasaki suspecting me wasn't strange timing, he had been doing it for a while. Tincow's sudden reversal, and other people's, does not feel natural. Because it's not; changing your mind so dramatically in the middle of an extended round doesn't add up.

Particullary if it's mafia that does the reveal. I probably failed to get Chaotix lynched in FOTO because of that. That pursuit was mainly due to personal amusement and it showed imho.

Tincow's reveal on the other hand did feel forced, mainly due to timing.

Hard situation to get away from though, night killing ATPG or doing night WIFOM (Renata doing a night scan instead, for example) might've worked better.

Grayblades, if ATPG gets immune to lynch after achiving his objectives, this game is horribly unstable and quite unbalanced. He's supposed to be almost unkillable by night and you could have both Samus and Dark Samus dead by Day 2 if unlucky.

Wait was that round extended? Shows how out of it I was, I didn't even realize. What IS it with my mafia fate and extended rounds lately? It is always bad news, every single time.

True, indirectly costed us the game last time as well.

[Greyblades]

Grayblades, if ATPG gets immune to lynch after achiving his objectives, this game is horribly unstable and quite unbalanced. He's supposed to be almost unkillable by night and you could have both Samus and Dark Samus dead by Day 2 if unlucky.

It seems you misunderstood. Alas no I dont believe he will become nigh invincible, I believe with samus and dark samus dead the game will end. Without samus I doubt the socking great space dragon will need to hide any longer and will destroy the olympus in one move. In short Game ends, ridley wins due to no character remains that is strong enough to beat him.

[ULC]

It seems you misunderstood. Alas no I dont believe he will become nigh invincible, I believe with samus and dark samus dead the game will end. Without samus I doubt the socking great space dragon will need to hide any longer and will destroy the olympus in one move. In short Game ends, ridley wins due to no character remains that is strong enough to beat him.

Obviously he didn't, because that is exactly what he meant. You two are fighting over the means when the end is exactly the same result.

[Greyblades]

What? He thought I meant Ridley would become unlynchable until the game ends if samus dies whereas I'm saying he'll win the game if it happens.
As for the ends I'm pretty sure game over is a different end to having pizza taunting us for the rest of the game... Actually that sounds scarier than game over.

[Ironside]

What? He thought I meant Ridley would become unlynchable until the game ends if samus dies whereas I'm saying he'll win the game if it happens.
As for the ends I'm pretty sure game over is a different end to having pizza taunting us for the rest of the game... Actually that sounds scarier than game over.

They are in principle the same. If he's unkillable, you might as well end the game. Giving an extreme penalty for lucky and/or good townie play.