[Council of Villains] A State of Corruption [Concluded]

[Greyblades]

Still, it's a worrying thought.

[ULC]

Still, it's a worrying thought.

No, it's not, because it's not in you're power to change that. As town, you must eliminate the mafia, which are Samus and Dark Samus. These are also ATPG's victory conditions. Ergo, to win you have to fullfill ATPG's VC. Which by your logic, means the town would have never been able to win in the first place.

[Greyblades]

...Are you being serious? Firstly its a theory that's all. Secondly no its not impossible to win; all they would have to do is kill pizza before killing samus. Thirdly yeah its in my power, The fact that your even disputing this means your actually listening to me so I'm making at least some impact on the game, also I'm on the replacement list and there have been afew people inactive so its likely I'll be back in the game in a turn or two. Next time you want to tell me what I can and cant do; think about it first.

[Winston Hughes]

@All
Anyone else received the pizzaguy blackmail treatment tonight?

@Beskar
Do you really want to do this publicly?

[ByzantineKnight]

FoS: Winston Hughes, Greyblades, Jarema

Not that I want Pizza alive by any means but these stuck out to me as the weirdest/scummiest reasons for wanting him dead

[Greyblades]

Hi. I'm a dead townie. How are you?

And I dont particlarly want Pizza dead.

[ByzantineKnight]

Hi. I'm a dead townie. How are you?

And I dont particlarly want Pizza dead.

oh my mistake...

I've been working the past few days and havn't been able to keep as close an eye on the game as I wish I could have which is also why I didn't vote the round before last

but I am actually doing quite well, thanks for asking!

[Winston Hughes]

Not that I want Pizza alive by any means but these stuck out to me as the weirdest/scummiest reasons for wanting him dead

Care to elaborate on that?

[Renata]

@All
Anyone else received the pizzaguy blackmail treatment tonight?

@Beskar
Do you really want to do this publicly?

Please do. Some of us need the entertainment, whatever it is.

[TinCow]

ATPG, some day you're going to have to explain to me how you always get so many people to believe your ridiculous role claims.

[Renata]

ATPG, some day you're going to have to explain to me how you always get so many people to believe your ridiculous role claims.

I think he just talks so much that it all blurs together and people figure if they just nod and say "OK Pizza" it'll all go away.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@All
Anyone else received the pizzaguy blackmail treatment tonight?

You know, Seon received the blackmail treatment, and that lead to me trying to save his while the rest of you wanted him dead. And then what happened? Oh yeah, that's right, Dark Samus died.

I love how forceful, yet obviously helpful and productive, behavior is now scummy.

And yeah, if you ask around, you'll understand I've threatened a bunch of people in exchange for information; the alternative is randomly killing, and not caring what the result is.

I did the exact same thing in.... a lot of other games, really. This is standard operating procedure.

ATPG, some day you're going to have to explain to me how you always get so many people to believe your ridiculous role claims.

When the game ends, I'll accept your apology. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

I usually try to make my lies, you know, believable. This role is ridiculous, yet extremely satisfying. Goes down smooth, great flavor.

Plus he makes you feel like you're being mean to him when you act skeptical.

Ordinarily I'd say yeah, I try to play such head games, but at the time I was frustrated that none of my suspects were good enough for anyone, and all my moves were being criticized. Give me something positive to work with.

I must confess that ATPG is the player that I am affraid of the most. No-one is so frightful to me as he is. So, when it turns out that he is a SK of a sort, I just shiver

Listen Jarema, I hear what you're saying, and I want to calm your fears. Please click the spoiler for more.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

RRRROOOOOAAAAAARRR!!

I noticed some complaints about my methods in the preceding posts; specifically threatening in private.

It's what I did with Seon, to positive effect, even for Seon himself. Kind of ESPECIALLY for Seon himself.

Honestly, Winston should be happy I'm asking him who he is before I just blithely kill him. Do you guys want me to kill your investigator, protector, or hero roles?

I'm just asking.

Now, if you want me to drop that, I will. I don't see why I should, but if it's how you want me to operate, with one wing tied behind my back, okay.... this is your show, tell me what to do.

Now, I want a response to the question: Do you want me to try to avoid hitting useful people, or people with stories I can easily confirm, or would you prefer me to kill randomly?

I could just abstain from killing at all, I gave that option, and several people have suggested they'd actually prefer I act as a vigilante here. Please decide, one thing that is frustrating is I'll work hard for you, but a couple dozen bosses with different strategic demands makes for an unhappy and unproductive Pizza. Please have one clear objective for me, and then ask me to do that.

[Seon]

Hey, but me folding to the slightest threat (read grand) worked out in the end :p. We got dark Samus and you out into the light after all.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hey, but me folding to the slightest threat (read grand) worked out in the end :p. We got dark Samus and you out into the light after all.

I know it did. I don't understand how a successful and useful strategy is now bad.

I guess it's the SK thing. Look, I'd be doing the exact same thing if I were pure as the driven snow. Mafia respond to threats, townies understand why threats are necessary, and understand no one is above suspicion.

I am getting angry that Winston refuses to name the ability he supposedly stole from Beskar. It would take a fraction of a second to just state, for the record. There is NO DAMAGE to the town if he does so, because he already stated that Beskar had such a power. Therefore, it's kind of like when Kagemusha refused to reveal, after Tincow was after him and Kagemusha himself had revealed 90% of his info, in the previous game.

The damage, whatever it may be, has been done. Reveal or get the heck out, Winston. Do you realize you might have caught Beskar in a lie? You might be able to prove he's mafia or something? Yet you refuse to give the goods?

This is either a really bad bluff, or I do not know what the heck you're waiting for. Tell me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Please vote now for Winston to die or be spared.

He refused to give me anything substantive in private, which is fine.... didn't tell beskar what ability he copied/stole from him, but claimed and insisted he had done so.

Now, when simply asked directly to state what it was he took, and I contacted him privately while he was still online and asked him:

EDIT: Can't copy.

Gist of it: "Before you go to bed, what ability did you take from Beskar."

He went offline a few minutes afterward.

Do you guys think his story is credible enough to double-check first, or should I pull the trigger?

He's addressed you in a different tone?

It's a fair cop.

[Beskar]

I could just abstain from killing at all, I gave that option, and several people have suggested they'd actually prefer I act as a vigilante here. Please decide, one thing that is frustrating is I'll work hard for you, but a couple dozen bosses with different strategic demands makes for an unhappy and unproductive Pizza. Please have one clear objective for me, and then ask me to do that.

Kill Winston. He cannot even name this apparent 'kill ability' which proves I am mafia scum (even though it apparently hasn't even been used by the mafia too), even after prompting by myself and other town in thread.

He is evidently the last remaining Dark Samus player (which is why Renata, etc was in full support of him). He knows I am protected at night so he is hoping to get me lynched off as 'revenge'.

I am getting angry that Winston refuses to name the ability he supposedly stole from Beskar. It would take a fraction of a second to just state, for the record. There is NO DAMAGE to the town if he does so, because he already stated that Beskar had such a power. Therefore, it's kind of like when Kagemusha refused to reveal, after Tincow was after him and Kagemusha himself had revealed 90% of his info, in the previous game.

The damage, whatever it may be, has been done. Reveal or get the heck out, Winston. Do you realize you might have caught Beskar in a lie? You might be able to prove he's mafia or something? Yet you refuse to give the goods?

This is either a really bad bluff, or I do not know what the heck you're waiting for.

It is a really bad bluff, infact, it isn't even a bluff. It is an attempt to get you to spare him tonight, because he has some information, but he won't reveal it, because he doesn't actually have anything at all.

Then he is using the threat of not being able to 'expose' if you killed him at night. But since there is nothing to expose in the first place, you won't find it magically in the morning anyway.

The fact Dark Samus is fully behind him is icing on the cake.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It is a really bad bluff, infact, it isn't even a bluff. It is an attempt to get you to spare him tonight, because he has some information, but he won't reveal it, because he doesn't actually have anything at all.

Then he is using the threat of not being able to 'expose' if you killed him at night. But since there is nothing to expose in the first place, you won't find it magically in the morning anyway.

The fact Dark Samus is fully behind him is icing on the cake.

All right calm down now, you're making me uneasy.

I have a vibe here that feels like two mafiosi from two different families are threatening each other privately, threatening to expose the other, but won't take it public because that means death for you both.

There is something unusual about this entire proceeding, because Winston does not usually play so badly, even when he's scum. I'd say, especially when he's scum.

Beskar, if he copied any ability from you, tell me. You didn't say you had any abilities. There's no reason to hide them if you're both trusted and protected.

Is there any truth to what he's saying?

The reason why I ask is, if you had ZERO abilities, the instant he said he stole something from you, you'd be able to say "pardon me? Wrong bluff, buddy" and just call for his head immediately.

Instead you question him, which implies that he is right about something.

Just tell us; if you're both scum I still would prefer to take down Winston first.

[ULC]

...Are you being serious? Firstly its a theory that's all. Secondly no its not impossible to win; all they would have to do is kill pizza before killing samus. Thirdly yeah its in my power, The fact that your even disputing this means your actually listening to me so I'm making at least some impact on the game, also I'm on the replacement list and there have been afew people inactive so its likely I'll be back in the game in a turn or two. Next time you want to tell me what I can and cant do; think about it first.

I'm sorry but what? I wasn't specifically talking about you, but okay, here we go...

Pizza needs to kill Samus and Dark Samus, so do you. Thus, goals seem intially compatible, but Pizza claims neutrality, and thus you claim he will win when both Samus's are dead. He does this when he either votes for the lynch of a Samus or kills them personally, which is has a high chance of happening simply if Pizza votes for whomever gets lynched every round. Pizza has to do nothing that a normal townie wouldn't.

You're basically saying that the only way the town could ever win is if they managed to find ATPG before Dark Samus and Samus, whom the town knows are the antagonists and thus are to be lynched and where the town almost always kills scum when they find them. So the town NEVER had any realistic chance of winning, ever, by your logic. Do you not see how this is entirely USELESS to consider? Think first yourself, before you prove that you aren't trustworthy.

[ByzantineKnight]

Care to elaborate on that?

The post I quoted but also the posts leading up to it, they were random and erratic, it just struck the wrong chord...

Pizza needs to kill Samus and Dark Samus, so do you. Thus, goals seem intially compatible, but Pizza claims neutrality, and thus you claim he will win when both Samus's are dead. He does this when he either votes for the lynch of a Samus or kills them personally, which is has a high chance of happening simply if Pizza votes for whomever gets lynched every round. Pizza has to do nothing that a normal townie wouldn't.

You're basically saying that the only way the town could ever win is if they managed to find ATPG before Dark Samus and Samus, whom the town knows are the antagonists and thus are to be lynched and where the town almost always kills scum when they find them. So the town NEVER had any realistic chance of winning, ever, by your logic. Do you not see how this is entirely USELESS to consider? Think first yourself, before you prove that you aren't trustworthy.

EDIT:

Great to hear, small update; pizza is claiming to be ridley and is supposedly a serial killer role that needs to kill 2 people .

Oh, I definitely caught that part but who wants him dead more than Samus's team right now?

Interesting, I was just reading the mafia quicktopic from Star Wars (posts 62-65)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And please stop using they when talking about the town, it sounds like you're not a part of it...
This one will kill you if they get a case on you later on. I think editing that one away the next day, when this part is old is best. The late editing time is a sure scummy sign, but the "they" is more obvious and almost as strong.
Didn't notice it without the extra pointing out by ATPG, so there's hope that it will go unnoticed for now.

Mmm.

I'll refrain from making such comments (neutrality after all) but that was one example where I couldn't help but giggle.

I'm notorious for picking on a certain aspect of that post, in any game where I see that aspect from any post. But if you don't know what it is, and they don't know what it is, and no one has mentioned it, you're fine.

Just a thought

[Winston Hughes]

The post I quoted but also the posts leading up to it, they were random and erratic, it just struck the wrong chord...

Please explain how my posts were random and erratic.

[ByzantineKnight]

Please explain how my posts were random and erratic.

You voted different people without sticking to one for too long and never gave a really good reason

[Greyblades]

I'm sorry but what? I wasn't specifically talking about you, but okay, here we go...

Pizza needs to kill Samus and Dark Samus, so do you. Thus, goals seem intially compatible, but Pizza claims neutrality, and thus you claim he will win when both Samus's are dead. He does this when he either votes for the lynch of a Samus or kills them personally, which is has a high chance of happening simply if Pizza votes for whomever gets lynched every round. Pizza has to do nothing that a normal townie wouldn't.

You're basically saying that the only way the town could ever win is if they managed to find ATPG before Dark Samus and Samus, whom the town knows are the antagonists and thus are to be lynched and where the town almost always kills scum when they find them. So the town NEVER had any realistic chance of winning, ever, by your logic. Do you not see how this is entirely USELESS to consider? Think first yourself, before you prove that you aren't trustworthy.

All I have been saying has been under the assumption that my theory is correct, I do not think that it is the only possible outcome nor even the most likely. Yet you seem to be under the impression that I believe my theory is infallible and the truth. In this case I reitorate what I said earlier: "it's a worrying thought." Thats all it was; a thought, a "what if he doesnt turn out to be telling the complete truth, what if he's lying?", A lie which, if so, you by the way seem to be swallowing hook line and sinker.

Oh and as for myself I am a dead townie. I cant be thought of as untrustworthy because it is fully proven that I am a town. I will admit I might not be helpful, I damn well am not infallible but trustworthy enough to not intentionally hinder the town? Call me arrogant but I think I have reason to claim that at least.

My response to the logic part will come in a minute, I have to calm down.

Edit: Ok, happy thoughts, happy thoughts.
You're basically saying that the only way the town could ever win is if they managed to find ATPG before Dark Samus and Samus,
I never said that it was a good theory but is it realy unreasonable for the town to get the psychopath before the mafia? Besides I might be wrong, maybe ridley would just fly off not thinking the town is worth the effort of killing, maybe he toys with the crew, I just thought killing you all seemed like the most likely.

whom the town knows are the antagonists
True.

and thus are to be lynched and where the town almost always kills scum when they find them.
In a rubicon style game its less likely, we're considering not killing a self confessed SK aren't we?

So the town NEVER had any realistic chance of winning, ever, by your logic.
All they had to do was kill one guy before finishing the game to win. Shouldnt be that hard with all the night kills flying around. Heck we havent even got proof that atpg wasn't bluffing about being NK immune.

Do you not see how this is entirely USELESS to consider?
No, I have encountered joker roles being issued by veteran hosts, such a role isnt inpossible.

[ULC]

The post I quoted but also the posts leading up to it, they were random and erratic, it just struck the wrong chord...



EDIT:


Oh, I definitely caught that part but who wants him dead more than Samus's team right now?

Interesting, I was just reading the mafia quicktopic from Star Wars (posts 62-65)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Just a thought

I was never really part of the town, I was as survivalist, a mafia recruit waiting to happen. You can thank the very mafia which could have recruited, for killing me. At this point I am simply disinterested in whom wins - I play for fun so when the game becomes empty of fun, so does my care cup. I am only stating what I know, information to be used by anyone, and limited by what the host will let me do.

If you want to accuse a dead townie survivalist of being mafia next time, I suggest you pay attention to how I actually play as a mafioso.

All I have been saying has been under the assumption that my theory is correct, I do not think that it is the only possible outcome nor even the most likely. Yet you seem to be under the impression that I believe my theory is infallible and the truth. In this case I reitorate what I said earlier: "it's a worrying thought." Thats all it was; a thought, a "what if he doesnt turn out to be telling the complete truth, what if he's lying?", A lie which, if so, you by the way seem to be swallowing hook line and sinker.

Oh and as for myself I am a dead townie. I cant be thought of as untrustworthy because it is fully proven that I am a town. I will admit I might not be helpful, I damn well am not infallible but trustworthy enough to not intentionally hinder the town? Call me arrogant but I think I have reason to claim that at least.

My response to the logic part will come in a minute, I have to calm down.

Edit: Ok, happy thoughts, happy thoughts.
You're basically saying that the only way the town could ever win is if they managed to find ATPG before Dark Samus and Samus,
I never said that it was a good theory but is it realy unreasonable for the town to get the psychopath before the mafia? Besides I might be wrong, maybe ridley would just fly off not thinking the town is worth the effort of killing, maybe he toys with the crew, I just thought killing you all seemed like the most likely.

whom the town knows are the antagonists
True.

and thus are to be lynched and where the town almost always kills scum when they find them.
In a rubicon style game its less likely, we're considering not killing a self confessed SK aren't we?

So the town NEVER had any realistic chance of winning, ever, by your logic.
All they had to do was kill one guy before finishing the game to win. Shouldnt be that hard with all the night kills flying around. Heck we havent even got proof that atpg wasn't bluffing about being NK immune.

Do you not see how this is entirely USELESS to consider?
No, I have encountered joker roles being issued by veteran hosts, such a role isnt inpossible.

You're still not getting the point of what I am trying to tell you. Do you know it's useless to theorize about the forging techniques used in the construction of an executioner's axe as it barrels it's way through spine on it's way to your throat and out the other side? Do you know it is equally pointless to ruminate on things that you were doomed on the outset from and that you have no control over? Why worry yourself about things you cannot control? It's pointless, go use your brain power elsewhere more constructive.

Also, untrustworthy is subjective - do I trust a fool with construction equipment? No, he could kill himself, despite the best of intentions. Likewise, just because a townie is innocent doesn't mean everything he say's is trustworthy, or what help he would offer is either.

[Greyblades]

What a charming, yet confusing, metaphor, couldnt you just ask "why are you concerned seeing as its not your problem"?, and by the way I'm concerned because I'm going to be chucked into the middle of it again in a turn. Oh and the reason I'm dwelling on my "doom"? I'm debating whether or not to keep pizza around now I know he's ridley, last thing I need is getting screwed out of a victory by helping the SK. The theory was just an idea I had on why a serial killer would only want to kill 2 people.