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Thread: Have some few questions! :)

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    Member Member Valion's Avatar
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    Default Have some few questions! :)

    Hello

    I'd like to know as the KH is their any point in building Regional MIC's?
    seeing in mainland Greece only Sparte is Homeland region?

    Also to get Toxotai Kretikoi do i have to build Regional MIC's in Krete? if so what level?

    Oh and Anywhere i can get good cavalry units in greece or anywhere nearby that arent mercs since Hellenic Cavalry sucks big time >.<

    Thanks!
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    RABO! Member Brave Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    No point in mainland greece for regional MIC's. Stick to factional ones.

    Toxotai Kretikoi require a lvl 4 Factional MIC on Krete.

    Believe it or not, the KH also gets good cavalry, better than Rome at any rate. You can recruit Lonchophoroi Hippeis in Athens and many of the other cities in northern Greece will supply you with Greek Noble Cavalry, the name of which eludes me now. They are very good as lancers, decent in melee. Also in Thessaly you can recruit the wonderful Thessalian Cavalry which is one of the best in the game.
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    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    Good cavalry in Greece: Thessalikoi (Demetrias), Thrakioi (Pella and Byzantion)...

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    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    I've had a level 4 faction in Kydonia (as Epeiros) and not had Cretan Archers appear on my recruitment roster, so I'm not sure it does work.

    Hellenic cavalry is rubbish; Hellenistic cavalry on the other hand is pretty good. Lonchophoroi are really good heavy-medium cavalry, armed with two AP weapons. Thrakian Prodromoi are also really good. Regular Prodromoi I suppose will do in a pinch.

    I don't think Thessalikoi are worth the money, knackered after two or three charges, and if you reposition them.
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    prodromoi can save your ass in 85% of the batles their speed is amazing when for instance fighting against epeiros they can catch up to the bg´s and keep them busy long enough for your hoplites or heavier cavalry to reach them

    also tessalia are amazing if you can´t use them properly it´s up to you or then it´s the fact that you are using them against hetaroi and since those and the cathraphacts and the heavyspearmen of the steppes are the hardiest it makes sence but then again you´re suposed to tackle heavier cavalry with hoplitais

    as for the kretikoi i have no clue why you didn´t got them you probably need to read again how to get them

    also hellenistic noble cavarly are great horseman if you ever play a syracuse migration campaign you will be amazed on what those boys can do on the batlefield with the anvil and hammer tactic both against romans and carthies a strong line of syracusan and classical hoplites some skirmishers (i normally prefer slingers on the front and some sword armed skirmishers on the flanks) and those beauty´s noble cavarly hammering down the enemies

    they are resilient and fast perfect to rout out the enemy skirmishers turn around and crash against the batle line saved my butt several times expecially because with syracuse you´re always beteween a rock and a hard place even if you get the stronger army on the land against the carthies you can not match them on the sea so your jump into sardinia and then alalia always as that special special ops feeling to it to try and land an army in sardinia while the romans are always trying to jump the messana straight to kick you in the back and the carthies are playing their favourite game of shooting down your half made up fleet
    Last edited by moonburn; 12-23-2010 at 18:56.

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    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    Quote Originally Posted by moonburn View Post
    also tessalia are amazing if you can´t use them properly it´s up to you or then it´s the fact that you are using them against hetaroi and since those and the cathraphacts and the heavyspearmen of the steppes are the hardiest it makes sence but then again you´re suposed to tackle heavier cavalry with hoplitais
    I don't use cavalry on other cavalry, that's what spearmen are for. Thessalikoi are useless at charging to the rear of engaged infantry, they are knackered after two charges meaning they then have little impact as they come in.
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    Member Member Valion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    Thanks for all the answers! it is much appreciated :)

    One more thing why is it that when a young FM starts undergoing the Spartan Agoge he immediately gets the "Stunningly Incompetent" trait? and when he finishes at 20 its still there, i mean its kinda unfair before he went to the Agoge he had 3 management and 4 Influence now he's a retard just because he has undergone a training that only gives +2 morale. I was extremely annoyed i had to cheat with give_trait to get rid of the Stunningly Incompetent trait. Oh and i forgot to mention he is a Sharp/Char/Vig - Unselfish/Pess/Loyal and Like his father. I mean seriously it ruined a perfectly good FM.
    Last edited by Valion; 12-24-2010 at 12:14.
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    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    Does Sparta have a school or academy? Without one of those, young FMs quickly become managerially inept.
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    Member Member Valion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Does Sparta have a school or academy? Without one of those, young FMs quickly become managerially inept.
    Nope! i Havent bothered building an academy in Sparta since athens is nearlby with a library, and really? I'l build an academy in sparta then i never knew that they'd become so bad in management in just one turn.

    Oh and just curious how long does it take to train a unit of Spartiatai Hoplitai? i wanna know before i invest in upgrading my MIC.

    Thanks Quintus!
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    Member Member Valion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    This is weird! After i removed the Stunningly Incompetent trait and sent him to Corinth he actually become a superb administrator after one turn! Is this a bug? oh i forgot the FM i'm talking about is an Athenian. I also reloaded when he had the Stunningly Incompetent trait and just sent him to Corinth w/o removing the trait and it just disappeared after one turn O.o

    So in regards i didnt have to remove the trait via console hahaha OMG playing the Greeks is getting more interesting :D
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    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    A lot of an FM's traits are formed by those first five years or so from Coming of Age - if you put them somewhere with an academy, they tend to becoming bookish. Somewhere with a temple, devout. Somewhere with a gymnasium, fit. And so on and so forth. Get the balance of buildings wrong for your objective, and you get surprises like that.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    IIRC, it depends on the government type and the heritage of the FM. You can see it in the description of their "gens": i.e. "...he would best suited to manage homeland reagions", means type 1. It doesn´t apply to all FM, especially not to the starting ones, i think, but its the same with the Carthaginians: if you put a Punno-Iberian to run Kart-Hadast he will immidiatly get the "stunnigly incompetent" trait, but if you let him gouvern your spanish holdings, and he can soon become a good administrator, though not immidietly.
    Last edited by vollorix; 12-24-2010 at 15:16.
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    Member Member Valion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    A lot of an FM's traits are formed by those first five years or so from Coming of Age - if you put them somewhere with an academy, they tend to becoming bookish. Somewhere with a temple, devout. Somewhere with a gymnasium, fit. And so on and so forth. Get the balance of buildings wrong for your objective, and you get surprises like that.
    Oh wow i never knew that! that's a very nice bit of information so thanks very much!

    And please have a for all stuff you've helped me with :)

    Quote Originally Posted by vollorix View Post
    IIRC, it depends on the government type and the heritage of the FM. You can see it in the description of their "gens": i.e. "...he would best suited to manage homeland reagions", means type 1. It doesn´t apply to all FM, especially not to the starting ones, i think, but its the same with the Carthaginians: if you put a Punno-Iberian to run Kart-Hadast he will immidiatly get the "stunnigly incompetent" trait, but if you let him gouvern your spanish holdings, and he can soon become a good administrator, though not immidietly.
    Yup i actually just understood that one, hehe i was too lazy to read their ancestry.

    and btw can you tell me how long does it take to train Spartiatai Hoplitai?
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    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    "Stunningly incompetent" just means they are in charge of a government they are not suited to, like Athenians in Sparta. It's not permanent: IIRC it disappears as soon as they are placed in a town with the right government.
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    Member Member Valion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    "Stunningly incompetent" just means they are in charge of a government they are not suited to, like Athenians in Sparta. It's not permanent: IIRC it disappears as soon as they are placed in a town with the right government.
    Yup i learned that one today :)
    But does is also mean they equally get Superb Administrator when they are in charge of a government they are suited to? like what happened in my game?

    Cheers!
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    RABO! Member Brave Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    Spartiatoi take 1 turn to train as all other infantry do. They do require the highest level of barracks though which takes some time to get to.

    And Quintus I'm surprised by your experience with Thessalians. They have good stamina, the same as Molosson Agema, better than Hetairoi. Sure they're not Prodromoi in terms of stamina but they are the same as Lonchophoroi and are better chargers.
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    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Brave Sir Robin View Post
    And Quintus I'm surprised by your experience with Thessalians. They have good stamina, the same as Molosson Agema, better than Hetairoi. Sure they're not Prodromoi in terms of stamina but they are the same as Lonchophoroi and are better chargers.
    Molosson Agema have better stamina than Thessalians and Lonchophoroi - they can charge around like light cavalry (or Prodromoi) without getting tired. Long as you don't leave them in melee with unbroken infantry, they're pretty survivable too.
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    it is more likely at least.

    generally it is advisable to not send every young FM to sparta, personally I only send those there that I want to use as generals later, mainly spartans. youthlings that have a more administrative tendancy spend their youth in athens to pick up some nerdiness ;). that's how I do it atleast. good for you that you'll probably won't have many level 1 govs so your spartans are free to command your armies ;)
    on cavalry: the further away you get from sparta, the better your cav selection gets(according to the unit list) the variety in cavalry in sparta is unfavorable to say the least, athens and corith can supply hippakontistai(extremely underrated) and lonchophoroi, thermon adds Xystophoroi, and in tessaly you already get the prodromoi and yar favorite mounted heavy skirmishers(not actually bad but more of a lategame bonus than anything else)aswell. further up you even get some nice regional units like the aforementioned thrakian prodromoi(tho the trakian light horsies are sorta mediocre) and in illyria you get my personal favorite: illyrian light cav^^.

    alltogether a bit sucky compared with your fellow hellens but not that bad anyway.

    tessalians may be marginally better than Xystophoroi but that does not at all justify the costs, as KH I'd allways go with your cheap home made version instead of the mercenary. they have a really great AOR for an elite unit and do the job just as good.

    and(once you've got xystophoroi or Prodromoi) don't forget the hippeis they may not have the sorta charge we all love about RTW yet they are exellent at relieving your lancers of the melee and pin down the enemy so you can charge the others again.

    and afaik epirotes does only get regional acess to Toxotai kretikoi unlike the KH who get them via the factional MIC
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  19. #19
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Valion View Post
    But does is also mean they equally get Superb Administrator when they are in charge of a government they are suited to? like what happened in my game?
    No, they have to earn that. As in reality, it's easier to do things wrong than to do them right.
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    Member Member Valion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    Does the AI retrain in RTW.exe? I noticed that the Romani are fielding Full units of double silver chevron all over Italy, like the army that is besieging Taras(which is still Epirote after 10years in the game) Pedites Extraordinarii, Triarii and Principes all silver chev.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Brave Sir Robin View Post
    Spartiatoi take 1 turn to train as all other infantry do. They do require the highest level of barracks though which takes some time to get to.
    Thanks! :)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Putt View Post
    it is more likely at least.

    generally it is advisable to not send every young FM to sparta, personally I only send those there that I want to use as generals later, mainly spartans. youthlings that have a more administrative tendancy spend their youth in athens to pick up some nerdiness ;). that's how I do it atleast. good for you that you'll probably won't have many level 1 govs so your spartans are free to command your armies ;)
    on cavalry: the further away you get from sparta, the better your cav selection gets(according to the unit list) the variety in cavalry in sparta is unfavorable to say the least, athens and corith can supply hippakontistai(extremely underrated) and lonchophoroi, thermon adds Xystophoroi, and in tessaly you already get the prodromoi and yar favorite mounted heavy skirmishers(not actually bad but more of a lategame bonus than anything else)aswell. further up you even get some nice regional units like the aforementioned thrakian prodromoi(tho the trakian light horsies are sorta mediocre) and in illyria you get my personal favorite: illyrian light cav^^.

    alltogether a bit sucky compared with your fellow hellens but not that bad anyway.

    tessalians may be marginally better than Xystophoroi but that does not at all justify the costs, as KH I'd allways go with your cheap home made version instead of the mercenary. they have a really great AOR for an elite unit and do the job just as good.

    and(once you've got xystophoroi or Prodromoi) don't forget the hippeis they may not have the sorta charge we all love about RTW yet they are exellent at relieving your lancers of the melee and pin down the enemy so you can charge the others again.

    and afaik epirotes does only get regional acess to Toxotai kretikoi unlike the KH who get them via the factional MIC
    Nah i like my FM's to be hardcore and gay so i want them to go trough the Spartan Agoge :D
    and well at least the KH have superb Hoplites, i can live with poor cavalry units for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    No, they have to earn that. As in reality, it's easier to do things wrong than to do them right.
    Great! i though it was a glitch, maybe my FM was a naturally good administrator :)
    Last edited by Valion; 12-25-2010 at 02:36.
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    RABO! Member Brave Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Molosson Agema have better stamina than Thessalians and Lonchophoroi - they can charge around like light cavalry (or Prodromoi) without getting tired. Long as you don't leave them in melee with unbroken infantry, they're pretty survivable too.
    Hmmm, I was mistaken. I thought Molosson had only good stamina and the BG's had very good but it seems both have very good stamina. I won't argue that Molosson Agema aren't superior, they clearly are, but Thessalians are a good substitute for KH. They are very expensive but if you own most of Greece, lets face it, you can afford it.
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    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Brave Sir Robin View Post
    Hmmm, I was mistaken. I thought Molosson had only good stamina and the BG's had very good but it seems both have very good stamina. I won't argue that Molosson Agema aren't superior, they clearly are, but Thessalians are a good substitute for KH. They are very expensive but if you own most of Greece, lets face it, you can afford it.
    To be honest, I only know about the bodyguard ones, I never recruit my own heavy cavalry. Expensive and not cost-effective when I've always got FMs to spare.
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  23. #23
    Member Member Valion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    Can anyone give me advice regarding FM ethnicity, More precise with the Rhodios FM's. Are they really that bad when it comes to trade? i mean my FM and his sons always gets Poor/Appalling Trader trait werent Rhodians exceptional traders? or does this come along the fact that they are easily corruptible? Athenaios are my favorite statesmen i even send them to undergo the Spartan Agoge to make them more awesome, Spartiates are also very good statesmen in my game and dont have much negative traits. So any advice what to do with Rhodios FM's? I want a Rhodios to govern Rhodes since its a major trade state but they cripple the cities income and i'm seriously tempted to put an Athenaios in their place >.<

    Thanks and Merry Xmas everyone! :)
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    Member Member Valion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have some few questions! :)

    Oh and i've read around the previous posts in the "post your EB empires thread" and can't help but notice that alot of people have awesome 10 star generals! how do you guys achieve that? Its incredibly hard to obtain stars in my game i mean my guy has seen the elephant yet he only has 3 miserable stars >.<
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