Arche Seleukeia VH/VH City MOD b. and a solution for some first few calm years

[MDPR]

I play with these settings:

VH/VH
City Mod b
Huge unit size
No advice
No AI camera movement
No battle-time


OK.

I have been pretty determined to find out, how I can stop, or halt, the Pahvala steamroll from start of the campaign. Cause on VH/VH, this faction attack you from its first turn, thus in 272 BC.

This mean you cant even get a diplomat to try and talk with Pahvala, offering it money, or offering it a city as gift, so it perhaps wont attack from start on. It seems Pahvala has been coded to attack you from start.

So I came up with a Eleutheroi-buffer-solution, that now seems to work just fine, when wanting to halt/stop Pahvala on your eastern front.

It is basically all about destroying and giving up 5 specific cities from start. The cities will then rebel and Eleutheroi arise in them, giving Pavahla something to deal with for quite some time, since Pahvala is still really weak from start.

Destroy and leave your cities

When you start as Arche Seleukeia in 272 BC, the first thing you do is to destroy the listed cities completly, while moving your troops out of them as well, trying to either getting your troops save and sound (thus not depleted), to cities as Zadrakata, Apameia, Prophthasia, Alexandropolis, and/or Karmana, - or assembling them as a stack, south of Antiocheia-Margiane, to be used against Asaak, after Pahvala has captured it and moved its main force southwest to either Hekatompylos or Zadrakata.

List of cities you must destroy from turn 1. Destroy all buildings that can be destroyed.

• Alexandreia-Eschate
• Marakanda
• Asaak
• Hekatompylos
  
  Antiocheia-Margiane is in the first two/three turns, optional in this solution, however, you must destroy it too, before 272 BC is over. You need Eleutheroi to be as strong here as possible, so both Baktria and Pahvala, will have to invest some troops, trying to capture it.

From the destruction of all these cities you will get some handy Mnai, you can use to build up forces against Ptolemaioi and build up your economy-structures.

If you manage to capture both Sidon and Tarsos relatively fast, and take out those few Ptolemaioi half-stacks in Syria, you could end up seeing Ptolemaioi being more interested in Eleutheroi for quite a while, than in you.

Should it still be too interested in you, "offering" you a battle with a stack each turn anyway, try and capture, destroy and leave Hierosolyma too, so Eleutheroi arise here as well.

Now you should be buffered save and sound for a while at least.

So, following this solution, no super-Ptolemaioi-offensive, with battle after battle, from start on VH/VH.


On diplomacy, get some of those diplomats out from turn 2, max, so you make peace with both Eperios, Koinon Hellenon and Saka. Try to become allied with Romani and Saba as soon as possible too, after you made peace with the others.

Give some money to Pontus, if they seem too interested in Mazaka from start. Also give some money to Macedonia and make sure when you get map-info, to give that to Macedonia as well.


If you follow this solution, you should get a rather calm row of years, depending on how you fight and what structures you build.

In my campaign, where I have used this Eleutheroi-buffer-solution, I have had some intense fights with Ptolemaioi at Sidon, Tarsos and the area between Damaskos and Hierosolyma, but actually even more intense fights with Eleutheroi, who sieged the listed cities within only a few years time:

Seleukia (captured by Eleutheroi too)
Damaskos (captured by Eleutheroi too)
Tarsos (besieged but not captured by Eleutheroi)
Edessa (besieged but not captured by Eleutheroi)
Mazaka (besieged but not captured by Eleutheroi)
Persepolis (besieged but not captured by Eleutheroi)
Alexandreia-Ariana (besieged but not captured by Eleutheroi)
Ipsos (besieged but not captured by Eleutheroi)
Sidon (besieged but not captured by Eleutheroi)


So a lot of activity from Eleutheroi, when giving this independent faction those 5 cities of yours, from start of the campaign. It has made it much more active than in a "normal" campaign, where you fight for every city.

And it has made Pahvala and Ptolemaioi, much less active.

[Fluvius Camillus]

If all's really fair in this war, you could have used the few troops in Asaak to attack the Pahlavan stack the first turn, of course you will lose, but this act of agression will make you keep your allies, and Pahlava lose them.

Good luck once again!

~Fluvius

[moonburn]

also pantadapoi and syrian spearman archer and slingers is always a good bet

mass large amounts of those and put them on bridges (whenever possible) or strait away lead an army to the phalavan cities (excetp for arsaak) they will not have any walls so you should be able to cripple them tremendously or even destroy them withint the space of 2 years (or 8 turns depending on how fast you can recruit and gather them) this as an extra bonus added that you can use this to keep your eastern domaisn more calm by removing population (altough another proach can ofc be to try and get those places with stone walls as fast as possible and only then recruit them)

don´t attack pahlava on open ground if they come to you use the slingers and spearman archers to remove as many horse archers as possible while protecting your fm or other more heavy unit you can bring along (the general you receive initially from pahlava or the family member in marakanda are great for this) so you have something to tackle the parnii family members with (or else you risk loosing half of your entire army trying to kill 1 single fm of theirs)

i normally drop the 2 city´s above marakanda (except i don´t destroy the wonder) as it is wich removes the border with the saka and gives you enough room to breath and ofc if what flavius camilius said is true then in conjunction with that it should give you the upper hand against the pahlava

so in short win against them by force of superior numbers outnumber them always and do as the ptolomai did against you wich is massive stack after massive stack until they either die or accept to become a protectorate

[MDPR]

also pantadapoi and syrian spearman archer and slingers is always a good bet

mass large amounts of those and put them on bridges (whenever possible) or strait away lead an army to the phalavan cities (excetp for arsaak) they will not have any walls so you should be able to cripple them tremendously or even destroy them withint the space of 2 years (or 8 turns depending on how fast you can recruit and gather them) this as an extra bonus added that you can use this to keep your eastern domaisn more calm by removing population (altough another proach can ofc be to try and get those places with stone walls as fast as possible and only then recruit them)

don´t attack pahlava on open ground if they come to you use the slingers and spearman archers to remove as many horse archers as possible while protecting your fm or other more heavy unit you can bring along (the general you receive initially from pahlava or the family member in marakanda are great for this) so you have something to tackle the parnii family members with (or else you risk loosing half of your entire army trying to kill 1 single fm of theirs)

i normally drop the 2 city´s above marakanda (except i don´t destroy the wonder) as it is wich removes the border with the saka and gives you enough room to breath and ofc if what flavius camilius said is true then in conjunction with that it should give you the upper hand against the pahlava

so in short win against them by force of superior numbers outnumber them always and do as the ptolomai did against you wich is massive stack after massive stack until they either die or accept to become a protectorate

Ok, nice tips, thanks moonburn, will try and see if I have the Mnai to raise these stacks, now that ptolomai, so far, is much less active.

I actually did use a half stack, with my family member from Antiocheia-Margiane, plus a new general, but both my generals were taken out by heavy Pahvala horseunits, east of Asaak, in a by Pahvala, forced open-field battle, sadly.

Also, I have used depleted units, from that battle actually, to stay inside Pahvala lands, like south and east of Asaak, to get the Pahvala units moving after them, so I could get time to begin building up forces in both Zadrakata and Ekbatana.

Thanks for the tips.

If all's really fair in this war, you could have used the few troops in Asaak to attack the Pahlavan stack the first turn, of course you will lose, but this act of agression will make you keep your allies, and Pahlava lose them.

Good luck once again!

~Fluvius

Thanks for the tip Fluvius. Ill use that in my next campaign. Having allies up here is important.

Do you know if this solution also make Ptolomai less active against you as the human player, like now in this campaign, where Eleutheroi is so much stronger from start?

Asking that, it would of course be really nice, if I still had my 5 cities, but then again, Pahlava and Baktria are now forced to build these up from scratch, meaning less Mnai for them to build units, moving against me. At least for some years.

In that time-buffer, where Eleutheroi also has made Ptolomai focus more on it, than on me, I think i might have a chance to take out Ptolomai within the first 15 years or so?

I am about to capture Salamis now, even though I havent captured Side yet. My idea is to raise an invasion stack on Salamis and then go straight for Alexandria from the sea, while ill drag the Ptolomai forces north against Sidon, thus far away from their Capital.

[Unintended BM]

I think your luck with the rebels being aggressive and the Ptolemies and Parthians being passive really didn't have much to do with your starting. I've found that if you just move your troops out of Asaak and just let the Parthians march in without a struggle, it kind of slows down their momentum. I always give up the northern most towns above Baktria and the one directly west of them too. I split up all of the garrisons between the town southwest of Asaak and the one directly south of it. I think the extra garrisons in those two cities discourages the AI from attacking. I also build stone walls as soon as possible and get a bunch of archer spearmen when my funds permit.

I play on M/M though, so it might not work the same way on VH/VH. I think probably most of the AI behavior is just random.

[MDPR]

I think your luck with the rebels being aggressive and the Ptolemies and Parthians being passive really didn't have much to do with your starting. I've found that if you just move your troops out of Asaak and just let the Parthians march in without a struggle, it kind of slows down their momentum. I always give up the northern most towns above Baktria and the one directly west of them too. I split up all of the garrisons between the town southwest of Asaak and the one directly south of it. I think the extra garrisons in those two cities discourages the AI from attacking. I also build stone walls as soon as possible and get a bunch of archer spearmen when my funds permit.

I play on M/M though, so it might not work the same way on VH/VH. I think probably most of the AI behavior is just random.

Could be you are right?

On the other hand, should the EB script threat Eleutheroi as a united faction, (i don't know if it does that), my solution to provide it with 5 cities from year 1 in the campaign, should make it stronger, explaining why it has been so strong until now, year 249 BC, with very few battles fought as well in overall, compared to when i played my first campaign and didn't know how to halt the Pahvala steamroll.

Its not that Pahvala is not strong still in this campaign, cause it is and make use of even more heavy horse-units than in my last campaign, however, mostly these units aren't upgraded with armour or experience, cause i sacked all the cities, so it has been forced to build the needed structures first. Structures it hasn't been able to build yet, in 249 BC.

For around 10 years, Pahvala has attacked me. In most battles i have won. In one battle, a siege-battle, (Apameia i think?), I managed to take out all 5 Noble heavy horse units, by using the hammer/anvil, loosing only 1 medium phalanx-unit, that was chopped to pieces as the anvil, however, standing ground long enough, in order for my hammer, consisting of some 9 units, to defeat all those horses from behind.

Now. Had Pahvala had those buildings available from start, in example Asaak, I think I would have faced upgraded horse units, and then my hammer/anvil, probably wouldn't have worked at all, since most of my units are medium phalanx and light native spear.

My strategy has been to try and hollow Pahvala, from start, so it has been forced to use a lot of its Mnai to build up the cities and fight Eleutheroi and me. So far the strategy seems to have worked out fine.

Actually, I managed to recapture Asaak again, a year before this screen. Pahvala had no units in the city for some 3 turns, so I scrambled a 14-units stack and went up and recaptured it. After that, Pahvala has been very defensive, and is using single units as guards along its border provinces, which is nice to see, that it actually does that, now it hasn't deployed any towers yet?

In total, until this year, 249 BC, Pahvala has thrown in some 4-6 full/close-to-full-stacks at me, with the most west-one of these, besieging Ekbatana, however, most of its stacks has consisted of 6 - 10 units, having minimum 1 single heavy horse unit in it.

Pahvalas golden heavy horse units, has just been used for the first time, in 247 BC, at Zakrapada. Deployed in a 4-unit-stack, with 1 General bodyguard and two of the golden ones, thus some 250 heavy horses and a light archer unit.




Ptolemie has been no-where to see so far. It attacked Sidon, the year after this screen, so in 248 BC, with a full stack of light native infantry, light skirmisher and a single medium phalanx.

So, with my solution, it could might work for anyone else too, wanting a "calm" start on VH/VH, having to fight some only 100+ battles in those 20+ years.

[MDPR]

Comment from my campaign here, year 237 BC, where everything is going so more well, than in my previous campaign.


One of my spies (spy-network), found this 22-unit-full Pahvala stack, with more than 1000 heavy horses in it!

Not a stack I want to encounter between two cities.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Good to see you are doing better!

Finish off Hekatompylos and Gabai, then Pahlava won't have a foothold in your lands anymore. That way you can hold the Hyrkanian defense wall (Zadrakata and Asaak).

By the way, 20 units is the maximum of a stack. You might be confused because there are two rows and 2 units. Those 2 rows are actually 9 per, not 10.

~Fluvius

[vollorix]

If i see it right 200 of those horses are the Aracosian Skirmishers - not really heavy, but, as most of they kind, very annoying ( though, not so much as horse archers, indeed ^^ ).
And i think thats the reason i somehow dislike playing eastern factions - too many arrows, too heavy armour, and... my Cantabrian Circle all the way.. lol

[Fluvius Camillus]

If i see it right 200 of those horses are the Aracosian Skirmishers - not really heavy, but, as most of they kind, very annoying ( though, not so much as horse archers, indeed ^^ ).
And i think thats the reason i somehow dislike playing eastern factions - too many arrows, too heavy armour, and... my Cantabrian Circle all the way.. lol

Dahae Skirmisher cavalry, not Arachosian. The unit I find the most annoying to find against when facing the Pahlava is the Dahae Noble Cavalry, an extremely versatile unit which can make any battle you fight them a nightmare.

~Fluvius

[MDPR]

LOL, omg, only having played the campaign for god knows how long now, - always counted the AI stacks like that as 22 ones!

Need glasses or more concentration I guess.

Thanks for brining the fact up Fluvious. Also congratulations with your own campaign. As said, looking forward to read a report on it.


Aracosian Skirmishers - not really heavy maybe, but well, I regard them as such.

[MDPR]

All right, no screens up yet, however, just wanna say that my situation has changed completely by now.

1. Pontus attacked me and took a city from me.

2. When my troops left my border with my old and trustful ally, Macedonia, in order to scramble those into an offensive stack hitting Pontus, guess who attacked me...yes, Macedonia. Using two full stacks from start, besieging two cities from start.

3. Then I lost two cities - 1 revolted and 1 Macedonia captured. It strangely lifted the siege of one of my cities? Im not complaining about that.

4. Then the steam slowly began from Ptolemie - the stack after stack thing - OMG! :-), and then I got frustrated having to fight all these battles manually against Ptolemie, that I did 2 auto-battles up at Asaak and lost a whole stack + Asaak it self too. Lol! great.

5. Then I moved troops from my cities southeast of Asaak, to Asaak, but then Baktria suddenly placed 2 stacks next to those cities, so my troops had to return, so Baktria wouldent find my cities to be too an easy prey.

6. Then I managed to capture Damaskos, that until now, for most of the game had belonged to Eleutheroi, since I pretty much gave it away to Eleutheroi from start, in order to make a stronger Eleutheroi-buffer against Ptolemie.

7. Then I recaptured the city Pontus had taken from me and instantly after this city-victory, I logically tried to take out another full Pontus stack, standing just next to the city-walls, so it wouldn't besiege me the turn after, also basically being my first open-field-battle against Pontus, also turning into a major defeat. I lost almost 2500 men!, thus my whole stack, whereof Pontus lost few 500?!


So. As for now all my cities west of Antiocheia are threatened by Macedonia and Pontus, while Ptolemie seems to getting warmed up for the stack-steam-roll, I so far have been able to avoid.


Perhaps I shouldn't play on VH/VH using the City B?