The Caravel Mod

[gollum]

A few explanatory notes;

1. the difference between income/maintenance from medium to huge unit settings is approx. 30% and not 40. This is now corrected in previous posts and it is also how much i will be giving to all lands in proportion to their base income in the new version.

The difference is calculated thus: medium units settings=80man sword unit and huge unit setting=120man sword unit; 120-80=40men in recruit and maint costs difference. Then 120/40=33%down in recruit and maint. costs when switching from huge to medium. Then to reach that in the campaign with huge its 33%up in agri income on all provinces in proportion to their current base income. There are various factors that will play in this, that make it not precisely the same in effect, however this calculation is a useful rough guide, a rule of thumb. One such factor is that in huge the training time is 2 turns and so even with more income the campaign boiling will still take longer than in medium.

2. The reason church/mosque faith propagation is a problem and hence taken out is that it overspills to other lands. However the default faction faith propagation (that happens without churches/mosques) does not. This is what makes the game unfair to Orthodox and Muslims in vanilla and what also balances it out and makes it agent dependent (as apart from the King's piety that affects the faction faith propagation only priestly characters can affect it further) in the Caravel mod, as in the mod you convert people only in your own lands and not in neighbouring ones, unless you put agents there of course - but agents can be killed (unlike churches in neighbouring provinces).

With the faith propagation as mentioned on, and so faith overspilling to other lands, the Catholics have a huge advantage is the religious game. Without it, they stll have an advatntage (as they are more numerous and so have more priests overall) but it isn't of the magnitude of vanilla. In vanilla the overspilling effect is such that you can basically ignore agents altogether as a catholic as the huge amount of churches chokes other religions at the borders.

[Stazi]

2. The reason church/mosque faith propagation is a problem and hence taken out is that it overspills to otehr lands. However the default faction faith propagation does not. This is what makes the game unfair to Orthodox and Muslims in vanilla and what also balances it out and makes it agent dependent in the Caravel mod.

You can make it a little more fair if you give their imams/orthodox bishops more faith propagation power (or eventually add faith propagation to their units). Increasing the build importance of Town Watch, Church and Imams/Priest/Bishops should help the AI to keep order and peace in provinces too.

[gollum]

Hello Stazi,

You can make it a little more fair if you give their imams/orthodox bishops more faith propagation power (or eventually add faith propagation to their units).

Yes, as mentioned before i will be doing this in the next version. I am thinking to put it up for priests/bishops/imams from 2 (current) to 4. Admittedly it is a bit over nerfed, and it takes too long for conversions for the AI to be able to use priests effectively. This is on the list since you brought it up. I only wanted to explain that its the overspilling that made me take out the faith propagation from religious buildings, apart from Cathedrals and G.Mosques iirc. They are too rare to have the overpowering overspilling effect churches have in vanilla.

Increasing the build importance of Town Watch, Church

This is another gameplay region that i gave quite some thought in, namely the distrubution of happiness bonuses to early buildings. This is a huge issue as it affects greatly the speed with which new provinces can be conquered and hence the speed you can rush an opponent.

The aim was for rushing to be a viable option but to come with some risk (ie people not have enough time to adjust to the new rule and rebel) and that risk should be greater the more cultural/religious diferences there are between the new conqueror and the people he is conquering.

In vanilla, the watch towers have a huge happiness bonus of altogether (both buildings) +50 in 2 turns. This obviously makes rushing all too easy.

In the mod, the watch towers give +30 iirc in 3 turns. Then in fort level the town watch gives another +10 - as in vanilla, and after that, the Church/Mosque in Keep level gives +30. Essentially this means that you get the same amount of happiness vanilla provides but more gradually over time, in order to introduce some risk to quick conquests.

After that you need to build the brothel or the Monastery (monastery is unique in the mod though) in Castle level to get more happiness, as in vanilla.

Of course the trick is to have this gradual happiness bonuses slow enough for a rusher to be inconvenienced, but also quick enough for the AI to be able to expand. After quite some playtesting i think that the current system works pretty well, except occasionally for provinces that have high rebelliousness (2 and above). There the AI may face one or two large rebellions, and the player might too. One idea is to reduce further rebelliousness in western provinces especially, however, this will take out some vanilla flavor and some strategic challenges as they now exist in the path of certain factions.
The problem is more pronounced in Spain, for the Castilans and the Almohads not being able to get Portugal quick enough.

As far as the AI being able to maintain order in his already conquered and brought in his culture provinces is concerned, this is something that in the mod works well throuh the huge units, that make decent garrisons and the loyalty:130 that makes the AI keep small garrisons in his lands and never leave them empty.

At the moment i will leave things as they are till i playtest things with the increased incomes. Its possible that more armies avialable through more funds will solve this naturally rather than needing tweaks in the rebelliousness or the happiness distribution. If not, then this can be re-examined

[Belisario]

Hi Gollum, I'm glad you continue working in the mod.

I would prefer that you keep the huge unit settings because it makes a big difference in battle. So, my vote to the 30% increase in farm incomes to play more challenging campaigns. My recommendation to all, and in particular Stazi, to prove the game mode suggested by Gollum of changing faction after playing with one or two rulers with the same faction. As he says "it's like having all the time a new and natural opening" but usually in more complex scenarios.

[gollum]

Hello Belisario,and nice to see you, i hope you are well :)

Version 2.6 of the mod is ready, and after overcoming a few slight technical difficulties (of my onw making) with the upload by help from the org admins, i will upload as soon as its possible.

In it i added the 30% agri income as per Stazi's suggestion and maintained the huge unit settings. Its only fair to keep to the vision we had with Caravel from the beginning and not give it up now - this mod should retain all the uniqueness it was thought on.

I have to say that the extra funds has proved the ingredient that released the potential of the mod. The campaign game now is amazingly dynamic and very much fun, even when you play with the same faction for many faction leaders. The AI also techs much sooner and has more troops for invasion and so waring starts much sooner and its much more contested - the AI counterattacks and does spoling attacks pretty often. At the same time the number of stacks remains relatively low - max two per province, so no endless reinforcements battles. In terms of tech the AI factions that have the funds to do it have build at least one castle by 1130, and one citadel by 1210, while having many castles atthe same time.

The Mongols now also have unique BGs that are a missile/heavy cav hybrid that the AI is set to use on the back and very conservatively. This means that shooting up the Mongol Khan/general with missiles or killing him in the melee in one of the attacking waves will be much more difficult and the Horde thus a tougher opponent.

I thank Stazi and all of you guys, the mod is really coming into focus on the campaign map with this version, its like it couldn't really take off the ground till now and now it shoots straight up. Finding the golden cut in income and loyalty settings as well as conversion rates took a while, but i think now its spot on :)

I also corrected nearly all the glitches Stazi reported and a few i found too.

v2.6 is coming up as soon as the uploading tech issue is solved

[Stazi]

Congratulations on your new release! I can't wait to play it.

Yesterday, I've been playing Spanish campaign. This time it was much more action. War began in the west during first 10 years. During 20 years war French were eliminated by English. About 100 years passed so I assume they will never come back. The same for Turks but they eliminated themselves due to lack of heirs. English eliminated Egyptians and Almohads too (with my little help) so now, shortly before Horde attack, the world is free form Muslim factions. Italians, fooled by Pope, attacked English and ... they will probably be the next faction on the extinct list. Byzantines (undisturbed by anyone) took Turks' lands, went north and reached the Baltic sea. All happened before 1230! Except mentioned factions only HRE means and does something.

Egyptians reappeared once with two BG units and 3 full stacks of town militia. Can you give a little more variety to reemerging Egyptians' units? Maybe check the others factions' roosters too.

P.S. Check your PMs.

[gollum]

Hello Stazi,
the variety in reapperances problem happens only with the muslims and even with them not always. All other faction reappeances work ok, including papal ones. In very short order if the re-appearing Muslims take on lands and have a half decent income, they blend their stacks with new troops and they become pretty balanced. Similar story happens with the Almohads and ocacsionally teh Turks.

It is something that also happens in vanilla and i will have to look into for the next version - it was a long long weekend and i fixed nearly all we discussed and more that i found to fix (glitches). Mod now has reached version v2.8 :) I'll take a break for a while after this.

Again thank you for the feedback. I am really indebted for your suggestions and for taking teh mod apart and allowing me to explain how i think of things.

Glad to hear that warring this time started earlier, however with the new version is much more intense guaranteed from very early on, without making the tech tree trivial or having endless reinforcements

I haven't heard yet from teh admins, however i am ready to upload as soon as i do

PS Check your pms :)

[gollum]

Ok, courtesy of TinCow and the org admins, the upload tech issue is now solved and the mod is now uploading. Won't be long...

[gollum]

Dear all, v2.8 is now up. Enjoy! :)

May i add that with this the mod really takes off. All the elements of it come together, so all of you people who have experienced it as well as everyone else who yet hasn't, give it a try if you will and can now. I can only say that (hoepfully) you won't regret it :)

v2.8 is save game compatible, and yet it has solved teh clansmen rebellion problem completely (and very shrewdly as you will see :)



PS While the mod is save game compatible as mentioned you are advised to start a new campaign to get the full extent of the benefits coming from the significant changes in this version - partiularly the 30% incomes up that customises the campaign for huge very well.

[gollum]

I kindly thank drone and the org for stickying the mod thread

[Stazi]

Some things I forgot to mention:

- range of the missile units. This returns in every mod. Units armed with javelins, grenades, etc. are not used properly by the AI due to the "skirmish behavior" issue. This is even more noticeable with huge units setting. Huge units are obviously bigger (especially wider) than Normal units. For example, if you want to throw javelins at 200 man unit from a side you have to nearly walk into the enemy unit. It's hard even for a player and absolutely impossible for the AI. IMO you can increase the range of those units to at least 3000 or remove those units from the AI recruiting preferences. If I understand the parameters correctly, missile units' range should be much higher than engagement threshold value (1500 or 2000 for some cavalry units) to be efficiently used by AI. Other way it ends with constant running forward and backward. I only consider AI behavior and gameplay not any real/historical accuracy. Now, units like Naphta throwers, Almughavars, Spanish Jintes, etc. are useless for AI and nearly useless for a player .

- Please, make the mod more user friendly. The install procedure is very complicated for a casual player. Believe me, many people have hard time finding even installation folder not to mention many other subfolders. My advice is to make zipped archive that player puts into game directory and simply "right click > Unzip here".

- you could clean up files after editing with Gnome (I assume it's a leftover gnome's stuff). The end of the unit_prod and build_prod files is a mess.

[gollum]

Hello Stazi,
the missile weapon's range is in the projectile txt file and not in the unit prod. If you compare that to vanilla you'll see that the javelins have already a received a slight increase in range as did the naptha throwers, precisely to facilitate the AI in using them.

However, i do not think that the approach some other mods take, namely to make the range too large as in RTW for teh AI to really use them is a good idea. The mod however tackles the AI's ineptitude to use these by restricting them.

For example;
-Jobbaggy have homalands (the Balkans) and cost as much as other spear units to recruit and maintain so teh AI doesn't overpprouce them and fills his stacks with javs that he can't use.
-Murabitin have a large shield and a slight spear anti-cav bonus iirc - similary to the Jobaggy they have homelands (Mahgreb desert) and do not cost cheaper for teh AI to spam them and so mess up his stacks
-Slav Javelins are Volhynia only and rebel and early only
-Spanish Javelins are Leon only and rebel and early only
-Almughavars have great attack and charge and morale as well as full anti-cav bonus and the AI is tweaked to use them in melee as assault units

Also the preffered ranks of all javelins have been customised for huge unit settings as those of all other missiles (and other units) to balance the men that fire (2 front ranks) with having a maneuverable unit (if too long the units become unwieldy and can be penetrated and routed too easily in cavl charges).

So while the problem you describe defintely exists it is essentially a non-problem due to these units either having other qualities that redeem them or due to never being overproduced (and this is certainly so in all playtesting i did) to mess up teh AI stacks as in vanilla that teh AI makes them in droves and then teh player can just round them up like ship with a few cavalry units.

As for the player, the units are slightly more easy to use than in vanilla due to the extra range and so that should be no problem. The correct use of such units is to keep them in reserve for firing in melee blobs and also for flankings towards the end of a melee to add a final push in routing wavering melee blobs. They can also pursuit infantry reasonably well.

To be honest with you, if this mod was for me only i would have taken the javelins out completely altogether and made the Almughvars a melee unit. This was the initial idea we had with Caravel, but, in order to keep the flavor of the vanilla game i decided to let them in but restricted and without being produced in droves as discussed above.

EDIT If you check out, the AI has max 2 (or at extreme cases 3 but that is petty rare) such units per stack for the factions that can recruit them. Sometimes in re-appearances he may have more, but never too many to make the re-appearance wirthless, save for the Murabitin in some cases as the Almohads and teh Turks, but that's rare.

Please, make the mod more user friendly. The install procedure is very complicated for a casual player. Believe me, many people have hard time finding even installation folder not to mention many other subfolders. My advice is to make zipped archive that player puts into game directory and simply "right click > Unzip here".

Absolutely. Its something that at the moment is certainly missing

you could clean up files after editing with Gnome (I assume it's a leftover gnome's stuff). The end of the unit_prod and build_prod files is a mess.

Yes, as we were discussing previously in this thread it is an editor leftover. Since i became aware of it i stoped using the editor and do all editing manually. The file being a mess does not affect the mod at all in any way as i said previously. However, since you insist from last time :) please help me out with it. Check your pms :)

[caravel]

I honestly don't see the big deal with dropping a .zip file somewhere and then extracting it to merge into the existing directories.

The end of the unit and build prod is easy enough to clean up and you should do it every time you finish with the gnome editor to avoid any corruption. Open the file with a decent windows text editor such as notepad++ look at the last section of the file and wipe out the duplicated mess at the end and save it.

Javelins are a liability and to be honest they should be just taken out altogether. You can simply never balance javelins to work properly in the same way that you can never balance undersize uber units. Personally I wouldn't worry what others think - take them out / turn them into spears or whatever. If some people don't like it there are a plethora of other mods out there that still have javelins.

[Stazi]

Hello Stazi,
the missile weapon's range is in the projectile txt file and not in the unit prod.

I know. I mentioned engagement threshold because IMO it has a significant influence on units in skirmish mode, especially those with short range missile weapons.

If you compare that to vanilla you'll see that the javelins have already a received a slight increase in range as did the naptha throwers, precisely to facilitate the AI in using them.

Yes, I noticed that but IMO it's still too short. Ok. Forget it. It's not that important. If I'd like to use naptha throwers (I love grenades:)) I change them myself.

Yes, as we were discussing previously in this thread it is an editor leftover. Since i became aware of it i stoped using the editor and do all editing manually. The file being a mess does not affect the mod at all in any way as i said previously. However, since you insist from last time :) please help me out with it. Check your pms :)

Forgive me if I sometimes resurrect old subjects. I'm only a poor, old men (of the mountains ;)) and my memory has more holes that a cheese . But.. you know... it was bothering me every time I opened those files. <problem solved>
btw you can try Dragon Editor. It has some flaws but it's much better than Gnome, has more features and doesn't spoil file structure.

[gollum]

I mentioned engagement threshold because IMO it has a significant influence on units in skirmish mode, especially those with short range missile weapons.

Oh right, i misunderstood you then... I in fact have not messed with those at all and i thank you for bringing it up. I will most certainly be looking into it. have you tried any values yourself for the engagement range? If so i'd love to hear them although i will run my own custom battles too and see what i get.

Yes, I noticed that but IMO it's still too short. Ok. Forget it. It's not that important.

May i suggest that you customise it for your own copy then? I am reluctant to increase it further for the reasons mentioned above. Feel free to do whatever customisations you need and even publish them if you like as add-ons mods of the mod. Its absolutely fine by me.

If I'd like to use naptha throwers (I love grenades:)) I change them myself.

heh ,yes they can be fun ;) One thing you can do as an alternative to increasing the range is to increase the accuracy. At the moment is way higher than vanilla but still somewhat low (0.75). If you put it at 1.2 you can have really good grenadiers and not awfully overpowered (only slightly).

Forgive me if I sometimes resurrect old subjects. I'm only a poor, old men (of the mountains ;)) and my memory has more holes that a cheese .

Nothing to forgive Stazi. I am greatly indebted for your feedback, thank you very much and please keep pushing me as it only helps tremendously to make the mod better to the benefit of all

But.. you know... it was bothering me every time I opened those files. <problem solved>

Absolutely, and if other people wanted to mod the mod may have stumble, actually would have stumbled in the same problem. Problem solved thanks to your skill and kindness, thank you very much.

btw you can try Dragon Editor. It has some flaws but it's much better than Gnome, has more features and doesn't spoil file structure.

Thank you for the suggestion, i will cetrainly do at some point. Currently, i know my way around the files so well that i do not use any editor and edit manually straight in the txt.

I honestly don't see the big deal with dropping a .zip file somewhere and then extracting it to merge into the existing directories.

The end of the unit and build prod is easy enough to clean up and you should do it every time you finish with the gnome editor to avoid any corruption. Open the file with a decent windows text editor such as notepad++ look at the last section of the file and wipe out the duplicated mess at the end and save it.

No other big deal other than my incompetence master camelier :) I was doing just that and got crashes everytime. Stazi kindly did it for me though and will be in the next version.

Javelins are a liability and to be honest they should be just taken out altogether. You can simply never balance javelins to work properly in the same way that you can never balance undersize uber units. Personally I wouldn't worry what others think - take them out / turn them into spears or whatever. If some people don't like it there are a plethora of other mods out there that still have javelins.

Indeed. however the mod tackles the problem as mentioned ie the javelins are pretty rare occurences in AI stack that maintain the vanilla flavor without ruining the AI stacks at all as i hope you will discover your self if you happent to try it. It works well, or so i found. I went to great lengths to retain as much of the vanilla game as possible while balancing it out as much as possible without losing the flavor

[gollum]

By the way Stazi, how do you find the campaign playing now, in v2.8? Is it any better?

[Stazi]

Try a couple of turns with Danes. Denmark is a black hole. Governor with 6 acumen and max tax gives 90 income. Upcoming princes make all things worse. I got rid of some units, sold royal palace and I've finally managed to take off the ground but it's impossible for the AI. Rebel army in Sweden is bigger, has good general and vikings. Alternatively you can attack HRE but AI will never ever do this (btw Saxony is a poor province too). You start with 2000 florins (hard) so if you make one mistake you are sitting duck.
Aragonese have a chance cause they have better province, start with fewer units and Navarre doesn't hold any rebel units.
Please, have mercy on poor Danes ;). Give them a chance.

[gollum]

Hello Stazi,

Governor with 6 acumen and max tax gives 90 income.

Only if there is famine. The province has a pretty decent base income of 377 florins from agriculture. So only 90flrns at max and 6 accumen gvernor can't be. The garrison in Sweden is bigger than vanilla but smaller than previous Caravel Mod versions.

Basically you have two choices with Denmark. One is disband starting units and build up to get better units, and the other and far better is build Town Militia, archers and get your vikings after you get 2 heirs and attack Sweden. if you win, you get to keep it and that solves your problem as you can continue to develop. If you lose you have burned some troops and so can make a few more and come back stronger to retake it a few turns later.

After getting Sweden you are set up to build up to Keep level and longboats and then you can expand at a variety of places. Alternatively you acn attack the HRE but that has a risk especially at first and it might be creating more problems than it solves.

The faction essentially is the same as in vanilla only that the Vikings are rightly priced and recruited from Keep level as they should, so teh super vanilla rush that you can do is much slower, but can still be done to great effect. The gameplay is essentially vanilla only enhanced.
Could it be that you are too much of a turtler hence why you find that (i mean having to rush, expand early) unpleasant :) ?

The Danes, Aragonese and teh Russians do just as bad as before as otherwise the player can win too easily with them. The Russians only occasionaly do better now.

The Spanish also do relatively so-so but instead the Almohads can do really great in Spain so there is a power coming from there. This was again to make the Spanish a challenging proposition to play with or at least much more challenging than in vanilla that they are too easy. However they do much better than before. By the way the Almohads are no easy either especially with having to do with the Spanish and the rich and powerful and aggressive Egyptians on the other side of North Africa.

The Sicilians, The Hungarians and the Polish are doing great - sometimes the Italians beat the Sicilians and otehrs the Sicilians the Italians or the Byzantines or teh Polish the Hungarians or the Hungarians the Polish, but nevertheless one of them will be doing really well and there is competition at start.

The Aragonese have a better chance as the player, yes - as the AI they do nothing. As the player the best you can do is get Toulouse, then Aquitaine and then Navarre. After that you can choose whether to kill the Spanish or move further into France up north or take it to the seas.

Only the Spanish take Navarre or if they are too late the French or the English either by sea or by land.

[Stazi]

Only if there is famine. The province has a pretty decent base income of 377 florins from agriculture. So only 90flrns at max and 6 accumen gvernor can't be.

Sorry, my fault. It's 177 florins. Still not much. Anyway, I'm talking about problems for AI not for player. Player can do many things not possible for AI. In vanilla, Danes does a way better because they have smaller start garrison (so smaller upkeep) and rebels' garrisons in Sweden and Norway are much smaller too.

Hmm.. Let me describe how I see things. The main power of this game lies in replayability. Every campaign can be different.. bah... even every opening can be different. While you make factions behavior easily predictable, you spoils most of the fun. Don't get me wrong, I like factions with tough openings but when something is tough for a player, it's impossible for the AI.

You say that you want to keep the vanilla flavor and not change the factions balance. Giving all provinces the same percentage income boost makes big functions much stronger that small ones so it's totally against your idea. It's a good move but I think only careful rebalancing of weaker factions can keep the vanilla flavor, fun and variety of the campaign scenarios. IMO the main factor that totally changes how the campaign goes, is stronger rebels garrisons. It has huge impact especially on small factions that are unable to gather army big enough to conquer those provinces.

I'll play play some more and let you know. The idea to start with +2 acumen title is really good. It should help the AI even if it choose not the best governor.

[gollum]

Sorry, my fault. It's 177 florins. Still not much.

Hello Stazi, the best opening moves imo for the Danes are:
-Give the two titles to your best governor and build a 20% farm and start building Town Militias and ally with the HRE
-Build a watch tower and keep building town militias and archers

By the time you have the20% farm upgrade Denmark with a 5 governor makes 440+ and by the time you have the 40% it makes 510+

Once you have 2-3 TMs and 2 Archers as well as at least one heir you can attack Swdeden. Although they have more vikings than you, you have Royal Knights that can turn the battle in your favor.

In vanilla that battle is a non battle - there is no risk with it. The rebels in Sweden are so small that they retreat to Norway and that's it.However in the mod they most likely won't unless you build too big a force, that will either weight in your financies or make you waste turns in development.

The true possibilities for the Danes come after you taken Sweden and have made a Keep (ie you get longboats and Vikings) ie where to go next to conquer.

In vanilla the clear winning move is England. In the Mod the English are much more stronger and prepared to fight back such an invasion, so it will require good generaliship, blood and effort as well as having a risk - ie that the invasion might fail and you end up back with your 2 Scandinavian provinces not having achieved much.

Another route is to kill off the Russians in Novgorod and take over Russia. This is easier to achieve - teh Russians are weaker than the English, but the result has its own risks - the Russian lands are Orthodox and so you need to win them over, relatively poor with lots of decent quality and quantity rebels, and also they may eventually be invaded by the Horde.

Giving all provinces the same percentage income boost makes big functions much stronger that small ones so it's totally against your idea.

Actually, if you read the calculation i did above, you'll see that wha has been done is completely equivalent to be playing in smaller sizes as you suggested in order for the AI factions to have more troops to burn and so be more aggressive quicker and tech up also quicker. After quite some playtesting in the autorun, i found out that the % income i gave worked exactly like putting the smaller (previous) incomes to medium unit size.

So, no its not against my idea at all. The fact that stronger factions develop quicker is only natural and a continuation of the balance of power that existed before.In other words larger powers developed quicker than small ones before. Now they develop even quicker but remember that they also comptete fiercer between themselves as well. The small factions also develop quicker when player controled because they too get the extra boost in income - all was increased in proportion.

IMO the main factor that totally changes how the campaign goes, is stronger rebels garrisons. It has huge impact especially on small factions that are unable to gather army big enough to conquer those provinces.

The rebel garrisons affect non other than the player in fact as far as smaller factions are concerned. In vanilla, that has smaller rebel garrisons, the Russians, Danes and Aragonese still do nothing at all. The lerger rebe; garrisons regulate the player's rush - not preventing the AI to expand as you say.

The only way to make the small AI factions good as played by the AI is to give them too many troops or more land at the beginning. Both will make the game dead easy for the player as them, and essentially will turn them from unique challenges, to similar like other medium sized factions (like the Polsih or the Spanish).

The rebel garrisons do affect factions in the east - ai Hungary and Poland and the Byzantines and teh Turks to take on the steppes too early. But this is good for gameplay and natural i feel. The Byz and teh Turks concentrate on their differences as they should in Anatolia and the Hungarians and Poles do take it east but slower than they did in vanilla that they reached Kiev in the first 10 years. This makes the game both unplausible historically and also too easy for the player when playing those factions.

Every campaign can be different.. bah... even every opening can be different.

I have strived hard to make the position of initial training infarstructire away from potential rivals that means easy and early rushes for factions. For example, as the French i could capture Burgundy and Swabia from teh Germans and that was a check mate move against them as they had their training centers there. Now however these are moved to Swabia/Bavaria/Franonia. This means that they are behind the lines and so teh Germans, even if they lose a few border provinces they will keep making troops to fight back, This calls for much less stndrad openings precisely, because the winning move is unlcear and will depend on what the opponent does and how your early battles go.

The same is for the Turks vs Eggs and teh Turks versus Byzs. The Eggs have a fort in Jerusalem to stem a potential Turkish rush that can take them out of the game, and the Turjs start with their fort and training facilities in Edessa and so its not as easy to take them out of the game as the Byzantines by occypying Rum.

Similar things have been done with other factions and faction leaders too. For example the Almohad faction leader being in Algeria in vanilla would be missing an early rush battle by teh Spanish in Cordoba. Now he is in Morocco and so he won't be missing it. SImilarly the Eggs faction leader was in Antioch that meant that as the Turks he could be captured and ransomed in an early rush. Now he starts in Egypt well protected from such an early disaster.

Equally much thought was given to the French/English opening garrisons and castle places. The english now have a barque over teh Channel that opens them few possibilities against an early French rush. Their faction leader can go to Normandy to relieve a potential French siege of teh fort there or even attack Brittanny as a reprisal. At the same time, the Englih don;t have that many garrisons in France as to be able to rush the French early. So its again a situation with not obviuos winning moves at the opening.

In general, i have striven to do what you are saying ie provide for not obvious openings for all factions. However, the strategic goals of each faction cannot change as long as their lands remain the same. For the French, always taking the English out of France would be best, for the Danes, taking Sweden and makinglongboats and Vikings beore deciding where to go next will be best etc.

Also remember that the true fun of the game comes after the first 20 -30 turns that the game progresses in ways that are unprdictable. Then every campaign is different. But it can;t be that different in the first 20 turns, as a game of chess can't be that different in the opening.
In any case, you can find yourself more often in diferent openings than that by also by changing rulers. Try it out and see for your self.

Last but not least, you are free and welcome of course to express your opinions and views, however may i point out that you play at least 100 turns with one or more factions (ie 100 turns combined) before doing so conclusively. If you play 10 turns or so it might be generally speaking too early to tell imo.

If you still feel that small factions need rebalancing after playing some, please tell me so and we'll take it from there. You can always mod the game your self as well to suit your idea of how small factions should play by the AI

[gollum]

Hello Stazi,
one more note on gameplay; it seems to me that the designers of the vanilla game wanted to have factions that have all types of openings hence factions that are 1 provnces to very large exist in the game and each offers a different challenge and proposition for teh early game on the way to victory. This is something that i want to keep in this mod.

Again i repeat, that if the Danes, the Aragonese and the Russians are made to perform well by the AI, their unique challenges of their openings for the player will be gone. The game has already small medium sized factions (Poland and Spain), medium size factions like France and England Italy and teh Turks and large factions like HRE, Eggs, Almohads and Byzantines. All of them come with their own uniqueness that derives from the roster, the terrain they occupy and the nature of teh geography of their lands as well as the number of neighbours and their cultures. If i turn all the factions to medium sized or small medium sized the game will be that much the poorer i feel.

If you will and can, give it a go as it is for a while and tell me later if you can what you think.

[Belisario]

Hello Gollum, thanks I also hope you are well. I'll give it a try to version 2.8 to see the latest changes you have made. I wish I had more time to play. Check out the readme file because I think you have not updated it from previous version:

"2. Play on medium (80man sword unit/133man spear/53man horse ) unit settings and on hard or expert difficulty."

[gollum]

I'm well thanks Belisario. Enjoy when you want and have time

Thank you for this, i get on correcting it right away and repost v2.8 with the corrected read me.

I will also make up either a self installing rar or an autoinstaller and include the cleaned up unit and building_prod files as kindly cleaned by Stazi that will enable people to mod the mod easier at a later date.

[gollum]

Ok read me now corrected. Thank you again Belisario

[Stazi]

Imo self-extracting rar is more than enough. 7zip if you want the package real small. It'll be self-extracting so it doesn't matter if a user has 7zip installed or not.

Some thoughts:

- Rebel armies are very cheap to bribe. I'm constantly tempted to buy armies (and simultaneously provinces) instead of fight with them. It speeds up your advance significantly. You get province, army to keep loyalty and sometimes good general too. Is it possible to make bribes cost more? We can't change loyalty of generals (which is the main factor) but maybe we can make copies of normal units (only for rebels) with much higher prices.
Is it a real problem for you or I'm going too far? I'm playing Almohads' campaign. I've bought El Cid, his army and Valencia at once for @4500 florins...and... it feels like cheating.

- You said that you can't make Golden Horde generals better. What about giving them a famous king and heroes? Will they appear along with the whole Horde in 1231?

[gollum]

Hello Stazi,

Imo self-extracting rar is more than enough.

Ok, will work that out soon.

Rebel armies are very cheap to bribe. I'm constantly tempted to buy armies (and simultaneously provinces) instead of fight with them. It speeds up your advance significantly. You get province, army to keep loyalty and sometimes good general too. Is it possible to make bribes cost more? We can't change loyalty of generals (which is the main factor) but maybe we can make copies of normal units (only for rebels) with much higher prices.

Indeed, infact teh AI also frequently does that too - liek the Byzantines the PEchenegs in Wallachia and Moladvia. There is little to be done for this i'm afraid, other than the solution you propose ie duplicates that cost more. However that will mean that the AI will also have a harder time to bribe them.

The main function of the rebels is to regulate early rushes is the areas they appear, especially in the east. If a faction reaches the point that can bribe them, then allowing it can't be too much of a problem - its a valid way to rid of them as is to sweep them with superior forces.

In the vanilla version bribing the rebels is a viable option and would like to leave it thus. Bribing El Cid in particular as well as the longbows in Wales were always favorite options and strategies.

The duplicates suggestion is a bit of extra work - but that isn;t exactly what turns me off. The main point is that rebel garrisons consist of recruitable units. This means that i wuold have to duplicate a hell of a lot of units as well as ccarefully fix and mix the rebel groups ie take them from the recruitable versions and put them back to the duplicate rebel ones.

This would be quite a bit of work, and i am not certain that its worth the effort as mentioned. Winning the game via economic means is another way and the Almohads start among the large string powers that should be able to do that.

In adition, i think El Cid is the highest rebel general. The others aren't that good, so it isn't a global big exploit, but more like a smaller one flavor one that i am prepared to live with. Is that ok?

You said that you can't make Golden Horde generals better. What about giving them a famous king and heroes? Will they appear along with the whole Horde in 1231?

Well i said i don't know how to :) Yes that is the only way i could think of and i think it may be worth it. I haven't added a King or general before though, so i will have to experient with that. Help from anyone that has had experience in that is appreciated.

[Stazi]

Check this thread. You can find useful info on the 2nd page. If you want to do it manually inside Campmap/names you have DEFAULT_HEROES.txt file. It contains some basic descriptions too. It's a little complicated so feel free to ask.

[gollum]

Thank you, i'll check it out

After recent experiences with editors i'd say manually is the best :)

[gollum]

Stazi, the editor seems ok for use for factions already in existence in the names files. However, the Horde is not one of them (i may be worng but i checked it). This means that i will have to introduce teh Horde in both the Kings and the Heroes section.

Is this something the editor can do? And if not, does the order of entries matter? I acn replicate an earlier one (from another faction copy paste) and then tweak the parameters to suit the Horde names and personalities to be introduced.

Also whether the Horde Kings and Heroes should be albelled 1230 or 1231 is another dillema. The Horde appears in 1230 but lands in 1231. I am afraid that if i desingate heroes in 1231 they won;t be appearing in the landing stacks, but will wait to appear in trained units - something that wuold be useless of course.

I have already researched the Horde and there are a few notable personalities as generals and Khans to be included. The landing Khan in particular, Batu, was a great general and pretty impressive personality.

[Stazi]

Actually, there is one famous king for FN_GOLDEN_HORDE. Adding heroes looks like simply copy/pasting.
Date of appearance - check the El Cid. Campaign begins in 1087 but his date of birth is 1054. So set the date of birth for some Horde heroes to e.g. 1200. They should be adult and ready when the Khan will need them in 1231. I think all rebel heroes appear the same way. They don't come with recruited units but appear when rebellion happens.