The Caravel Mod

**virus_found** · 03-25-2011, 19:59

Hello. I'm a vanilla player (since those times, the game was issued). The only thing, that bothers me in vanilla, is an AI being effortless at establishing overseas trade. It is the hugest possible exploit of this game. Last time I played Novgorod (expert, indeed), my income was 25k, expences were 5k. That was without farming, it's useless to spend a lot of money on farm upgrades, since there is such an imbalanced trade. And after you are the richest, the strongest, the vastest etc., it's plain boring to continue.
The question is: "How does this mod address the abovementioned issue?"
The only way to make it less abusable, imho, is to make AI twice as agressive, as it was. So that you never feel safe, just sitting at the edge of the map (Novgorod and some other countries) and accumulating wealth. But that's just my assumption. Or there are more reliable and tried ways of make it less exploitable?

Also, I would like to know all (or most) changes, this mod does to units (price, availability etc.). I was a bit shocked, after seeing somewhere here, that vikings landsmenn/carls/huscarls were "modded out". It would be, unfortunately, too much for me to try this mod, as, it seems, not only vikings are touched, aren't they? There is nothing wrong in an imbalanced unit, wars are never balanced. After all, AI is the most restricting and imbalancing factor for most games in the genre. No, for all games in the genre. That is why, I'd love to see some mod for MTW, that would touch only AI behaviour, both strategically and tactically.

By the way, is there a possible way of making all tactical maps at least twice bigger? It irritates me the most, when my cavalry stumbles upon an invisible wall somewhere. By the way, it is a bane of most computer games with realtime field battles.

**gollum** · 03-25-2011, 22:49

Hello virus found, and welcome to the org and the MTW section.

Trade is boosted by making more meaningful AI tech tree choices that help him set up a network quicker and more effectively. Also naval stats of ships and ship availability have been altered so that the naval game is morebalanced and more dynamic. if you play with the suggested settings ie with a high loyalty setting for teh AI, the AI factions are better at managing their network too.

There are various solutions in tweaking trade; these range from tweaking the value of the goods, to teh % of profit made for the trader, to scrapping the whole system out. This mod does none of those, as it aims to improve on vanilla gameplay, and so maintain vanilla gameplay whenver this was possible.

All changes of stats and prices are aimed towards the principle of correctly pricng units according to what they can do on the field, and also to rationalise their availability. Certain units are too easy to get and others too difficult for no good reason and this has been altered.
Statistical changes are minor in order to keep units in the same role as in vanilla while making them more useful/less overpowered - depending on what each unit needed according to my and Caravel' judgment.
It would be too tedious to list all changes as there are too many of them; if you are absolutely bent on it, i suggest you download the gnome editor and simply open the vanilla unit production, and the one the mod uses, and compare column by column. The best way however, and by far teh more enjoyable, is to play the game with the mod on. However, i repeat that despite the changes, factions and units are recognisably vanilla - not vanilla easier and more unbalanced though, but harder and more balanced.

As far as balanced is concerned, it is in fact a key ingredient of the mod - perhaps the key ingredient. If you wish to play the game with units are just too good and too cheap, you can either stick with vanilla (that has such units) or try other mods that have such units. You could also make your own modifications to vanilla or to the mod if you so you wish, and i'd be happy to answer questions as to how to do changes you wish to make.

Regarding AI aggressiveness, it can be good for the AI factions in teh short term, but its a killer in the long term, especialy if you play in low loyalty settings. If you play in loyalty setting at about 140-180, the AI will be more tenacious in teh ling term but less aggressive in the short term. If you play at 120 loyalty (the default one), aggressive AI personalities burn teh AI factions out very quickly - its generally a bad idea for a satisfying campaign.

As far as maps are concerned, you could delete the small maps for every terrain type (steppe, plains, hills, mountains); the engine then would pick the large ones only that remain.The maps are IIRC in the battle folder - and then choose maps.

**virus_found** · 03-25-2011, 23:42

Thank you, gollum, for the fast reply.
As I'm very interested in only one part of your mod, that does wonders to AI tech tree choises. I would really, really like to apply only this part of your mod to my vanilla installation, do you see it possible? Will it become "vanilla + great AI tech tree choises modifications" or "broken vanilla due to the lack of your other modifications, which can't live one without another"? If the former, then I'm really glad, first of all, and I'd really appreciate your help in pointing me to the filename, I need". I'm also interested, what I would miss, if I applied only that single part, regarding tech trees. From what I already know, I will miss some adjustments to some units' price/availability/stats. What else (in common, not in details)? :)
Thank you in advance.

**gollum** · 03-26-2011, 00:29

Hello virus found,
you could of course try substituting only the buildings prod file. However, this operates and is worked together with the units prod file. You'd still have to mod all the unit dependencies at least to the tech tree of the mod, otherwise you'll get nonsensical results and perhaps even crashes. Then you would have to test them all for crashes and see how they play out too (ie do they have the intended effect? etc), then iron out the crashes and the misfires and proceed iteratively - essentially it would turn out you making your own vanilla mod rather than customising teh Caravel mod.

While this is fine by me, i can't guarantee you the considerable commitment and help that such an undertaking would require. You are free of course to do it alone, and i'll try to help you as time allows if you decide to go down that route. I doubt that it will be short, simple and smooth though, especially as you seem inexperienced with the basics of modding. Most likely the amount of answers i can provide would be very very small for the amount of questions you'd have and likely it wouldn't come timely enough for you to maintain a steady, fast work pace.

In effect, i think yours is a bit of a "you can't have the pie intact and eat it too" case :)

It all comes down to preference in the end and thus each person is selective in a personal way in what they want to change, and less in a purely objective way. For example, you say you want a more challenging game, but at the same time are unwilling to accept changes for the sake of balance it seems. However, its precisely these balance changes that make the game more challenging, both in teh camp map and in teh battle map.

At the end of the day, the only thing that can persuade or dissuade one, is playing for a while the mod as is with an open mind, but of course not all people are prepared to do that understandably. On the other hand, equally understandably as i hope you'll agree, i made the mod as i and Caravel saw fit, and there is no point in changing it to please persons x, y or z, as otherwise it wouldn't be our mod.

**PershsNhpios** · 03-26-2011, 06:09

Welcome to the Org and to the Caravel mod, VF.

If it is not possible to be compliant immediately with your wish to institute only one facet of the mod, perhaps it will be found possible to grant your wish or at least agree on a comprimise if we can know how familiar you are with the features of the mod and which you are uninterested in.

You will discover that Gollum has created a mod which alters the cosmetic appearance of MTW not a whit, and that it is in fact mostly comprised of tweaks which assist the AI and enhance gameplay very much in the manner that you wish AI production preferences to be augmented.

If you are interested in the AI choosing more wisely what to produce, and thus establishing a more stable and stronger economy, you will find that all of Gollum's modifications are strictly employed in this respect - to enhance AI performance and also balance.

As Gollum has said, increasing AI aggression causes large factions to form and then disintegrate extremely quickly, as is often seen in vanilla, and many find this unrealistic, annoying and ruinous to the feeling of immersion. By increasing loyalty penalties however, as has been done, the AI refuses to quit its borders before the kingdom is stable.

What this means is that although you can indeed still sit in the corner of the map and make money, the AI will also sit unmolested and make as much money if not more (And now it will know exactly where to put that money), if you are for example Denmark and your rival the HRE. You will also find it extremely difficult to make excessive amounts of money, especially in the early game, and garnering enough money to challenge the rebels militarily will also ensure you are often without any change.

Please do not underestimate the value and challenge presented by Gollum's work. I know the feeling of disappointment regarding the loss of a household favourite like Huscarles (Though I feel none on this point), but it would be ridiculous to ignore the strengths of this mod for such a negligble loss.

Is it also possible brother Gollum that our friend could keep the Scandinavian units whilst employing your major preference modifications?

**virus_found** · 03-26-2011, 12:14

Hello, Glenn (if you don't mind me asking, isn't your nickname from Chrono Trigger/Cross?).
You two are a bit biased towards your creation, and I can understand this totally. It can be a really wondrous mod, indeed, and probably it is. But I can't cope with modified units in any way. They must be virgin, like CA created them, be them balanced or unbalanced, it doesn't matter for me, believe me. On the other hand, I'm very interested in "better" building choises, AI makes, like in overseas trade (i.e. it chooses merchant buildings and shipyards more often). And I'm also interested in tactical AI enhancements, described before.
The only way out is starting carving unneeded (for me) things out of your precious mod, in which, I hope, you'll help me a bit :) And no, I had a lot of modding experience in many games in the past, but now I became somewhat purist, and mod only things, that totally ruin my gameplay experience, like overabusive trading in MTW.

**PershsNhpios** · 03-26-2011, 13:16

You must have your triggers crossed, VF, for if you ask of the name Glenn, you are mistaken in referring to it as a nickname, for it is indeed my own. If however you refer to the mark of Cauallero, this is not a nickname, but rather a title, which in addition to my 'location' is a reference to my respect for a certain knight-errant of considerable favour, El Ingenioso Hidalgo Don Quijote de la Mancha.

Of course, I am nowadays less a knight-errant and more a sedate member of the Hall's brotherhood, curtailing my travels without this realm since they have only led me into trouble.

Now before you begin slinging about accusations, I must make you aware that the mod is not my creation, but the brainchild of two fine brothers, Caravel and Gollum. I am simply enthusiastic. I am not however not a modder, and so your only assistance in reaching a comprimise will come from brother Gollum.

I can't speak for him, so we must await his opinion, but meanwhile I suggest you read the discussions of this thread regarding the gameplay of the mod, and that for the sake of experiment you even download the mod (Which is tiny in size) if you have time and simply try it.

If none of this is possible, then it is most advisable to at least maintain an open mind.

And please, if you will, visit us in the Hall.