Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 98

Thread: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

  1. #1
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Duchy of Yorkshire
    Posts
    8,632

    Default The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Great book. I first read it about forty years ago, just after I'd read about his mucker Tom Sawyer, another great literary work.

    So what's the problem?

    Some dolt has decided that the word 'nigger' should be replaced with the word slave. I think we all know why.

    Relativism at it's worst. The whole point of the book is that Finn, who is a racist, in a racists state discovers enlightenment. It's like trying to re-write the New Testament and leaving out the word Christ.

    So, should we leave writings from over a hundred years ago alone and see them in the context of when they were written or, like the Ministry of Truth, re-write them to suit modern sensibilities?

    "He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future." -- George Orwell
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  2. #2
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    12,014

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Of course we shouldn't change anything.

    And I love how you quote socialists
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  3. #3
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Duchy of Yorkshire
    Posts
    8,632

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Old Eric foresaw the problems with runaway socialism, so he's ok with me.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  4. #4
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    12,014

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Socialism?

    This is like the Parental Advisory beeps the yanks put in their gangstah rap songs. And I don't know about you, but I wouldn't put consvative, christian housewives in the socialist category...
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  5. #5
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Taplow, UK
    Posts
    8,495

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Reference to drugs in a song? Blank it out. Nigger? Blank it out.

    A song called Russian Roulette by Rhianna where at the end we hear a gunshot and a body falling to the floor? Perfectly fine (BTW, I really like that song).

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

  6. #6
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Western New Yuck
    Posts
    7,914

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    They censured Shakespeare didn't they?

    " Art made tongue-tied by authority. "
    -William Shakespeare, Sonnet 66
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

  7. #7
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sogdiana
    Posts
    1,720

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    Old Eric foresaw the problems with runaway socialism authoritarianism, so he's ok with me.
    fixed.

    Eric was so left wing he joined the damn POUM (anarchist) militia in Spain. He was anti totalitarian and staunchly a lefty on economic and social policy.
    Last edited by al Roumi; 01-07-2011 at 11:55.

  8. #8
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Saint Antoine
    Posts
    9,935

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Pathetic Yanks.

    Bunch of sad little Rosbifs.

    A-cultured Anglosaxons.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  9. #9
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Saint Antoine
    Posts
    9,935

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Books are re-translated all of the time. They must be, because the language becomes incomprehensible as time passes. Shakespeare is unreadable, Chaucer might as well have been Icelandic.

    The connotations of words change. Their register changes. Etc. The polite words 'negro' or 'coloured' of only a few decades ago are pejorative now. One would have to re-translate the respectful 'coloured' of the civil rights movement into the closest modern equivalent of 'Black', or run the risk of making the user of the word sound like those he opossed, a social conservatist.

    'Nigger' in Mark Twain's era was offensive. There was more social acceptance of the word back then, but it was nevertheless considered an offensive word. One would not have to re-translate it into a modern equivalent. A conclusion which has the nasty side effect of rendering everything I've written thus far in this post moot and pointless. Which in turn serves me right for not thinking ahead when posting.

    Twain deliberatly tries to capture the speech of particular regions in particular eras, down to class, race and gender. It would be a shame if this artistic quality of his work would be lost in a re-translation. Especially when so much is easily understood by the reader, or, if not, has the even bigger benefit of teaching the reader the history of the age.

    Still I would not oppose the swapping of the n-word with something slightly less offensive for educational purposes, or even for popular editions. If twelve year olds are confronted with the n-word in the classroom, it will dominate thought and discussion so much that more is lost than gained. Also, should one want to confront a twelve year old black kid with it in the first place? The offensive descriptions in the post above - as those persevering with my ramblings find out here - serve a literary and rhetoric purpose: to serve as an example. To show that one may rationally realise full well they serve a literary purpose, but the confrontation with them still makes one uncomfortable


    ~~o~~o~~<<oOo>>~~o~~o~~~


    I am decidedly bored by these manichean left-right worldviews dominating so many threads. 'It's bad, so it belongs to 'the other camp''.

    Yawn...
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  10. #10
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Taplow, UK
    Posts
    8,495

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    We do get ourselves in such a muddle about what to call... erm... people who we'd do a sickle cell blood test on.

    White, whitey, European, Caucasian are all fine for my skin colour.I've never been to the Caucasus but that doesn't appear to matter.

    But black, nigger, coloured, African? Not only does it depend on the era one is in, but also one's own race (black people can use nigger of course...)

    Then there's the lot in the middle. The half-cast, oh sorry mixed race. Whoops MEO - multiethnic origin. And how pale before one stops being black and becomes MEO? And how pale before a MEO becomes white?

    Nigger is offensive, but the others it seems that one has to be careful as there is something wrong with being of darker skin.

    Disclaimer: my WIFE is mixed race. Except she says she's black. How you can have Spanish and Chinese ancestry as well as African and not be mixed race beats me. My son is mixed race for obvious reasons except he appears "white" - easily paler than those from the South of Europe.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

  11. #11
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sogdiana
    Posts
    1,720

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    I am decidedly bored by these manichean left-right worldviews dominating so many threads. 'It's bad, so it belongs to 'the other camp''.

    Yawn...
    Fais do do, Louis mon petit frere
    Fais do do, t'auras du lolo.

  12. #12
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    The Land of Heat and Clockwork
    Posts
    4,990
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    I think this kind of editing is appropriate for use in schools - imagine being the only black kid in your class which was reading Huck Finn and coming across that word over 250 times during the book. Editing such as this allows children and young people to be educated about Twain whilst not feeling uncomfortable.

    Of course, it goes without saying that ordinary versions for sale in shops to be read by private individuals should remain completely unchanged.
    So, should we leave writings from over a hundred years ago alone and see them in the context of when they were written or, like the Ministry of Truth, re-write them to suit modern sensibilities?

    "He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future." -- George Orwell

    Hyperbole much? Few things grate on me as much as the use of 1984 to protest against teeny weeny insignificant issues like this, or speed cameras or whatever. Orwell's Oceania was the perfect expression of the sheer malevolence of the totalitarian state, and should never ever be used to describe nothing else other that, except maybe the perfect cup of tea.

  13. #13
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Saint Antoine
    Posts
    9,935

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by alh_p View Post
    Fais do do, Louis mon petit frere
    Fais do do, t'auras du lolo.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  14. #14
    Insomniac and tired of it Senior Member Slyspy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,868

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Subotan View Post
    I think this kind of editing is appropriate for use in schools - imagine being the only black kid in your class which was reading Huck Finn and coming across that word over 250 times during the book. Editing such as this allows children and young people to be educated about Twain whilst not feeling uncomfortable.

    Of course, it goes without saying that ordinary versions for sale in shops to be read by private individuals should remain completely unchanged.

    Hyperbole much? Few things grate on me as much as the use of 1984 to protest against teeny weeny insignificant issues like this, or speed cameras or whatever. Orwell's Oceania was the perfect expression of the sheer malevolence of the totalitarian state, and should never ever be used to describe nothing else other that, except maybe the perfect cup of tea.

    To be honest I couldn't disagree more with the idea of editing such texts for use in schools. A text such as Huck Finn isn't read in schools just for the sake of reading, it is there to be studied, to be analysed, to be explained, to be contextualised and to be used as a springboard to the study of associated topics. Leave it alone, warts and all.
    "Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"

    "The English are a strange people....They came here in the morning, looked at the wall, walked over it, killed the garrison and returned to breakfast. What can withstand them?"

  15. #15

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by alh_p View Post
    Old Eric foresaw the problems with runaway socialism authoritarianism, so he's ok with me.
    fixed.
    Noooo, you didn't fix it! It's a very important point that runaway ideologies become authoritarian. I like capitalism and egalitarianism, but I should admit that the runaway versions of them are bad...WITHOUT trying to rebrand them.

    I think this kind of editing is appropriate for use in schools - imagine being the only black kid in your class which was reading Huck Finn and coming across that word over 250 times during the book. Editing such as this allows children and young people to be educated about Twain whilst not feeling uncomfortable.
    What happens when you imagine it?

  16. #16
    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Lisbon,Portugal
    Posts
    4,952

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    if they think it is damaging to children...then just take it off the school curriculum...... and even that is a dumb idea.
    changing a book to make it PC is a travesty.
    "If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
    -Josh Homme
    "That's the difference between me and the rest of the world! Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!"
    - Calvin

  17. #17
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Moral High Grounds
    Posts
    9,224

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    I think some of you are missing the point. The word was offensive then, and is offensive now. But Mark Twain did this deliberately to highlight the character of Jim against the rest of the white trash in the book. IA is right, this is a whitewashing of a critically satirical book. By removing the n-word, the publisher is attempting to clean up the past.

    The word has nothing to do with Twain, it has everything to do with the story and point he is trying to get across. No point in teaching the book if it gets neutered, which may very well be the end-goal of the publisher.

    I hear they are also taking out "Injun" as well. Someone on Slashdot said it best, there isn't an editor alive qualified to touch Samuel Clemens' work.
    The .Org's MTW Reference Guide Wiki - now taking comments, corrections, suggestions, and submissions

    If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
    Si je n'étais pas jouer à des jeux que je serais mort de petits animaux à un taux plus élevé que je suis maintenant - Louis VI The Fat

    "Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur

  18. #18
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Forever adrift
    Posts
    5,698

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyspy View Post
    To be honest I couldn't disagree more with the idea of editing such texts for use in schools. A text such as Huck Finn isn't read in schools just for the sake of reading, it is there to be studied, to be analysed, to be explained, to be contextualised and to be used as a springboard to the study of associated topics. Leave it alone, warts and all.
    i agree with you, but the problem was that this seminal piece of literary work was not being taught in schools precisely because teachers were uncomfortable reading it in a classroom in the 21st century.

    personally i think that says more about the teachers than anything else, but is it better to see it part of the curriculum in modified form, or not taught at all?
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  19. #19
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    I live on the org, feeding off of what few thanks are tossed at my posts. It is up to you to make sure I don't starve.
    Posts
    8,730

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Twain wrote the n-word because he specifically wanted to use the word the n-word. He didn't choose slave or black or spook because those didn't convey the message of the book the way he wanted to. The point of the book is to throw at you this utterly backwater society of the times by taking this hateful word that is still very much taboo to say in the public discourse and then have every single white person use it as a common descriptor, "n-word this and n-word that." Which was really how it was back then, it's not even fiction in that sense. The book portrays Jim as one of the better characters in the book while most of the white southerners are complete white trash, even though the society takes it for granted that that Jim is just a n-word and thus lesser then everyone else. By taking the word out and swapping it with a "politically correct" term, you take the fangs out of the entire bite towards racists. Which is why racists like to do this kind of stuff under the guise of being "politically correct". The word slave doesn't have the same effect as n-word does, so your impression of the white trash southerners saying "slave Jim" instead of "n-word Jim" is not as negative, which humanizes them more and makes them less hated in the eyes of the reader.

    You turn the Southerner's into the poor misguided ignorant people who just didn't know any other way of life besides slavery rather then the hate filled bastards many of them actually were. It doesn't take a genius or an education to figure out that blacks are people too, hell Huck figured it out by the end of the book.
    Last edited by a completely inoffensive name; 01-10-2011 at 00:18. Reason: so people take me seriously
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

  20. #20
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Forever adrift
    Posts
    5,698

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Which is why racists like to do this kind of stuff under the guise of being "politically correct".
    you know what, i really wasn't aware that bnp/kkk members were at the forefront of those demanding the reincarnation of huck-finn as a pleasant and innocuous tale..........................?
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  21. #21
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Duchy of Yorkshire
    Posts
    8,632

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Slave doesn't cut it for a whole plethora of reasons, least of which was the Barbary Corsairs.
    Last edited by InsaneApache; 01-07-2011 at 20:47.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  22. #22
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    I live on the org, feeding off of what few thanks are tossed at my posts. It is up to you to make sure I don't starve.
    Posts
    8,730

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    you know what, i really wasn't aware that bnp/kkk members were at the forefront of those demanding the reincarnation of huck-finn as a pleasant and innocuous tale..........................?
    bnp/kkk members are at the forefront of keeping those they hate down. If they notice that by treating blacks as babies who can't handle a word, they get to censor books which satirically criticize their philosophy, then they will go along with it.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

  23. #23
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    The Land of Heat and Clockwork
    Posts
    4,990
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    What happens when you imagine it?
    I see that kid feeling extremely uncomfortable, and I do not doubt at all the possibility of said child rejecting Huck Finn on that basis alone, despite it being a criticism of racism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyspy View Post
    To be honest I couldn't disagree more with the idea of editing such texts for use in schools. A text such as Huck Finn isn't read in schools just for the sake of reading, it is there to be studied, to be analysed, to be explained, to be contextualised and to be used as a springboard to the study of associated topics. Leave it alone, warts and all.
    See:
    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    i agree with you, but the problem was that this seminal piece of literary work was not being taught in schools precisely because teachers were uncomfortable reading it in a classroom in the 21st century.

    personally i think that says more about the teachers than anything else, but is it better to see it part of the curriculum in modified form, or not taught at all?

  24. #24

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    I see that kid feeling extremely uncomfortable, and I do not doubt at all the possibility of said child rejecting Huck Finn on that basis alone, despite it being a criticism of racism.
    Uncomfortable in an all white school, ok. But why made extremely uncomfortable by huck finn and rejecting it on that basis? Everyone knows that it's historical and the teacher will introduce it properly.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Wokingham
    Posts
    3,523

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Fais do do, Louis mon petit frere
    Fais do do, t'auras du lolo
    .”

    Maman est en haut,
    Qui fait du gateau,
    Papa est en bas,
    Qui fait du chocolat…

    I prefer “V’la bon vent, V’la joli vent, V'la bon vent Ma mie m'appelle”

    I don’t know. The problem is Nigger is now offensive and was used as an offensive name at that period.
    But to change it is somehow to mild the Racism, to soften the Period.
    Because it was no white Slaves at this time, to change “nigger” to slave is to erase this aspect.
    Yes words change. Josephine Baker had the “Revue Nègre” in Paris but nobody would call a black with this word in France now. At least not in public…
    But in alteration to denial, we change the perception of the Reality: A War Lord becoming a Local Authority, a thug a freedom Fighter etc.
    But, as far as I remember, at school, a teacher is here to explain the context and the book.
    This book, in the original version shows what ware racism, slavery and a kind of society of that period.
    Would you cut off the child prostitution in Dickens, or put Fantine (Cosette’s mother, Les Misérables) at the trap because he became a prostitute, or Gavroche should go home because we don’t want Children Soldiers?
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  26. #26
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Forever adrift
    Posts
    5,698

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    bnp/kkk members are at the forefront of keeping those they hate down.

    If they notice that by treating blacks as babies who can't handle a word, they get to censor books which satirically criticize their philosophy, then they will go along with it.
    you made two statements there, and yet failed to demonstrate a link between the two. i refuse to accept an implicit link in the absence of evidence.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  27. #27
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    The Land of Heat and Clockwork
    Posts
    4,990
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    Uncomfortable in an all white school, ok. But why made extremely uncomfortable by huck finn and rejecting it on that basis? Everyone knows that it's historical and the teacher will introduce it properly.
    So the teacher has to say to the class "Ok kids, now remember when Twain says the word "nigger", he's not being racist!"? We're educating children here, not fully developed adults.

    But to change it is somehow to mild the Racism, to soften the Period.
    I completely reject this. The racism of the South wasn't just nasty name-calling, but all the associated hatred, prejudice and murder that that society upheld. By saying that our ability to view the racism of the period has somehow been softened by the minor edits to the text, you shift the focus of the debate away from the deeds and towards the language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    Would you cut off the child prostitution in Dickens, or put Fantine (Cosette’s mother, Les Misérables) at the trap because he became a prostitute, or Gavroche should go home because we don’t want Children Soldiers?
    Don't be silly. Bad things in novels that happened historically do not approach nearly the same level of controversy as what the word "nigger" does today.

  28. #28

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Subotan View Post
    So the teacher has to say to the class "Ok kids, now remember when Twain says the word "nigger", he's not being racist!"? We're educating children here, not fully developed adults.
    We aren't educating children. Young adults. Who teaches huck finn in grade school?

  29. #29
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Taplow, UK
    Posts
    8,495

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Teach it at GCSE - they're 15-16 years old by then. Considering by 16 the "children" can legally get married and start a family I'd hope they can cope with a Nasty Word that they'd've heard for years from other sources, and probably with no teacher led discussion.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

  30. #30
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    I live on the org, feeding off of what few thanks are tossed at my posts. It is up to you to make sure I don't starve.
    Posts
    8,730

    Default Re: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    you made two statements there, and yet failed to demonstrate a link between the two. i refuse to accept an implicit link in the absence of evidence.
    I don't have one. But it really doesn't take a link to a biased website to note that throughout history, bigots always gloss over their bigotry through "reasonable" arguments. We can't have gays equal in the military because it will disrupt unit cohesion. N-word's can't be integrated with the white because their brains are genetically inferior. hey, I'm looking out for the coloreds I don't see why we need to punish them by having them subjected to the superior standards that whites must go through in school. Let's not have the n-word in Huck Finn because I'm just looking out for the kids and blah blah blah.
    Last edited by a completely inoffensive name; 01-10-2011 at 00:16. Reason: so people will take me seriously
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO