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Thread: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

  1. #91
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    If my little girl had just been killed, I can't imagine being this rational or cogent in the aftermath:

    This shouldn't happen in this country, or anywhere else, but in a free society, we're going to be subject to people like this. I prefer this to the alternative.

    Wow. Just wow.

    Meanwhile:

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou View Post
    I think the efforts by many thus far to attribute his actions to anything other than himself is pathetic.
    To which I quote National Review:

    We also suffer from a larger American unwillingness to acknowledge political violence. We rightly applaud ourselves for having avoided Europe’s upheavals. Yet the historic free flow of ideas in this country means that pernicious ones will lodge in the minds of very bad actors. Few of our famous assassins were mere loony loners without political motives. JFK’s assassin was a Marxist, RFK’s was another Palestinian, McKinley’s was an anarchist. Lincoln was murdered by a rogue Confederate intelligence operation. The solution is not to restrict freedom, but to take ideas seriously — to flag them and combat them; to monitor those who take them to extremes and to come down on them when they first cross the line to incitement or action [...]

    We have a difficult enough problem as it is: We cannot know where we are unless we honestly identify and discuss what happens around us.
    Last edited by Lemur; 01-11-2011 at 18:49.

  2. #92
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Funny.
    You spread the idea that the guy at the top is not legitimate, that the State is taking your freedom, that the Government is illegitimate and coming directly from Hell, and that you have not only to resist by vote but you have to stockpile weapons and munitions, that your political enemies are in fact Foreigners (or agent of a Foreign Power) then when a man with a mental deficiency does something like this you say you have nothing, no responsibility whatsoever.

    What next?

    “I just obey orders”?
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

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    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
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  3. #93
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    It's nice to see the good people at WBC doing their part to tone down the rhetoric.
    US law is seriously lacking if the police have no grounds for detaining such a "protest" and prosecute them for harrassment.

    There is a line. Such behaviour at a funeral is criminal behaviour.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  4. #94
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    [W]hen a man with a mental deficiency does something like this you say you have nothing, no responsibility whatsoever.
    A further rebuttal to those who suggest that any discussion of the political culture is irrelevant and in poor taste, from a person who seems to know what he is talking about:

    "It's a reasonable question to ask," Dr. Marvin Swartz, a psychiatry professor at Duke University who specializes in how environment impacts the behavior of the mentally ill, said in an interview this morning. "The nature of someone's delusions is affected by culture. It's a reasonable line of inquiry to ask, `How does a political culture affect the content of people's delusions?'" [...]

    "We know the manifestation of mental illness is affected by cultural factors," Dr. Swartz said. "One's cultural context does effect people's thinking and particularly their delusions. It gives some content and shape to their delusions. While we don know whether there was a specific relationship between the political climate that he was exposed to and his thinking, it's a reasonable line of inquiry to explore."

    Asked whether Loughner's mental illness invalidated questions as to whether his behavior might have been partly caused by the political climate or by violent rhetoric and imagery, Dr. Swartz said it shouldn't.

    "Studying the cultural influences on people's delusions or persecutory thinking, and looking at different aspects of culture and how they effect people's behavior, is a legitmate area of inquiry," Dr. Swartz said.

  5. #95
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    JFK’s assassin was a Marxist
    So you think Castro was behind it. I always figured you thought it was the MIC...
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    So you think Castro was behind it. I always figured you thought it was the MIC...

    It's just a smoke screen to cover the actions of the LUL*.


    *League of United Lemurs
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    *League of United Lemurs
    The first rule about LUL is we do not talk about LUL.

    Proving that there's no such thing as bad publicity, Glock sales are soaring in Arizona.

    After a Glock-wielding gunman killed six people at a Tucson shopping center on Jan. 8, Greg Wolff, the owner of two Arizona gun shops, told his manager to get ready for a stampede of new customers.

    Wolff was right. Instead of hurting sales, the massacre had the $499 semi-automatic pistols -- popular with police, sport shooters and gangsters -- flying out the doors of his Glockmeister stores in Mesa and Phoenix.

    “We’re at double our volume over what we usually do,” Wolff said two days after the shooting spree that also left 14 wounded, including Democratic Representative Gabrielle Giffords, who remains in critical condition. [...]

    “When something like this happens people get worried that the government is going to ban stuff,” Wolff said.

    So does this mean that the Glock 19 will surpass the AR-15 as the most overpriced gun in America?

    -edit-

    And joining the Wetboro Baptists in the tastelessness hall of fame, Mr. Limbaugh declares that the shooter has the "full support" of the Democratic Party. Amazing. I expect nobody on the right will call him on this.

    What Mr. Loughner knows is that he has the full support of a major political party in this country. He's sitting there in jail. He knows what's going on, he knows that...the Democrat party is attempting to find anybody but him to blame. He knows if he plays his cards right, he's just a victim. He's the latest in a never-ending parade of victims brought about by the unfairness of America...this guy clearly understands he's getting all the attention and he understands he's got a political party doing everything it can, plus a local sheriff doing everything that they can to make sure he's not convicted of murder - but something lesser.
    Last edited by Lemur; 01-12-2011 at 04:32.

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    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    I am sorry, but everyone who is trying to exploit a tragedy like this for political gain is pretty pathetic. Of course all of you pointing figures at the right now will ignore the fact that he was a hard core liberal who attended a high-school that was part of a pro-communist schooling system set up by Bill Ayers and funded by Obama. You know, if you want to point fingers, a lot more can be pointed at the left? (Anyone here want to open up the debate on drugs again?)
    Quit the pathetic blame games and get a life.
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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Mussolini was a member of the communist party in his youth.

    Does that mean he was a communist dictator?

    Edit: heck, I myself cheered for the Conservative party when I was 13-14. Does that mean I'm actually a conservative and my membership in the Socialist Left party is null and void....?

    How 'bout that time I ran for parliament on the Communist Party's list? Does that exclude me from ever becomming a member of any other party?
    Last edited by HoreTore; 01-11-2011 at 23:24.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  10. #100
    Prince of Maldonia Member Toby and Kiki Champion, Goo Slasher Champion, Frogger Champion woad&fangs's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    edited away due to incorrect source
    Last edited by woad&fangs; 01-11-2011 at 23:26.
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  11. #101

    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    People keep sending this around as proof that right wing rhetoric is promoting violence:

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society...spire-violence


  12. #102
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    If my little girl had just been killed, I can't imagine being this rational or cogent in the aftermath:

    This shouldn't happen in this country, or anywhere else, but in a free society, we're going to be subject to people like this. I prefer this to the alternative.

    Wow. Just wow.
    The video is gone, but here's an earlier interview where he maintains the poise and grace through tears.

    Amazing, indeed.

    CR
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  13. #103
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    I think the current climate of hyper-partisanship among the politically involved in the USA has much deeper roots than is currently being addressed. This did not start with Bush, or Clinton, or even within the last 3 decades. I believe it can be traced to two components: The Cold War realpolitick practiced by the USA, and television.

    The last time US politics was truly quiescent was during the 1950s -- everybody liked Ike. That is an exaggeration, of course, but the liberal opposition to Ike was Adlai Stevenson and his youth movement was of an alltogether gentler variety. Ike was a dedicated centrist on most issues, only taking a hawkish stance against the USSR and actually coming down on the side of liberalism on a number of social issues -- remember that desegregation began under Ike.

    Eisenhower did establish, however, the US's willingness to prop up all sorts of horrid kleptocrats and dictatorial thugs so long as they opposed Soviet communism (Yes, the Truman Doctrine towards Greece and Turkey set the groundwork for this, but it was Ike who let the CIA overthrow the government of Iran, a coup d'etat in Guatemala, support for Battista and the virtual shoving of Castro into the Soviet sphere of influence, etc.).

    At this same time, television was introduced and rapidly became the unifying element of US culture. This was hailed by MacLuhan as the advent of the "global village," which is far too correct. Of course, in addition to being closer and more in touch with the world around us, we also have the opportunity to poke our noses into one another's business on a much more frequent and intrusive level.

    In the 1960s, the Cold War reached it's "peak." The Cuban missile crisis involved a shared level of national fear that was almost unprecedented. Shortly thereafter, Kennedy is assassinated and LBJ undertakes the Great Society at home and changes the Kennedy policy of covert operations support for full on military support and heightens the Vietnam conflict to an amazing level (while also micro-managing individual aircraft sorties from the Oval Office...sheesh). Combine the rapid expansion in the number of college students with the counter-culture spawned by disillusionment with the Cold War in general and with Vietnam in particular (the regime we started out supporting was a bunch of klepto-thugs; we continued to support all sorts of Latin American dictatorati; the shah was evil; we let the Czechs die on the vine; etc) -- we got to watch daily broadcasts everyday with kill totals published like a baseball score in nice little graphics on the evening news. TV brought home just how ghastly war was in a way that hadn't really been experienced by the American homefront since 1865.

    This opposition undercut Johnson from the political left and caused him to withdraw. Old school liberal Herbert Hoover had enough appeal to take the nomination despite the anti-war element's opposition, but had to move left to hold enough of his party's grass roots operators to win the nomination. This let Nixon employ the famous Southern Strategy and clobber Hoover in the general election. Nixon then backtracked on his implied goal of ending the war within his first term and the anti-war movement went into overdrive.

    In addition, since both Nixon and his Veep Agnew (both borderline crooks or worse in terms of machine-style political manipulation), had gone out of their way to attack the media, who Nixon had never gotten along with from the Ike era onward, the media was more than willing to stick it to tricky Dick. When Watergate provided them the ammunition, the media used it to bring down Nixon's presidency.

    Just before he went down, however, Nixon used defense curtailment suggestions by the 1972 Dem nominee McGovern to paint McGovern as a liberal wimp who would leave American on its knees to the Soviets (McGovern wanted to get out of Vietnam as rapidly as it could be shifted to the Vietnamese which was actually close to what Nixon ended up doing; he wanted to reduce the carrier fleet and focus on troops to shore up NATO and handle low-intensity conflict more effectively, etc. Nixon thus painted him as a coward wimp -- which is ironic since it was McGovern who nearly had his posterior shot off while flying bombers out of Italy in WW2 and earning a combat DFC as opposed to Nixon's less threat-filled service). Nixon didn't merely oppose McGovern, he set out to destroy him and did, winning the biggest landslide in US electoral history prior to Reagan's win in 1984.

    Nixon was loathed and the left went rabid over it as Watergate expanded into the scandal it became. The media began to solidify into its left-centrist stance that it has maintained for the most part since. Nixon's criminality made it possible for Carter to win over Gerald Ford in 1976. Carter then enacted a principled foreign policy, reversing support for many of the Cold War regimes that we'd tolerated/supported/abbeted/created from whole cloth earlier in the Cold War. He also gutted the military. By 1980, unable to defeat Islamic Iran (who for some reason hadn't forgiven the USA for 24 years of support for the Shah based on 24 months of the Carter presidency), Reagan was able to paint Carter as weak and inneffectual. Lots of right wingers to this day do not merely think Reagan was better, but that Carter was the exemplar of what was wrong with Democrat leadership/policies. The media loathed Reagan and took any opportunity to portray him as a doddering old man, warmonger, etc. This has been the basic mantra for political partisanship since.

    What has heightened it further is the media. Blame Ted Turner for the 24 hour news cycle; Reagan for the death of the Fairness Doctrine; and the Internet for the growth of the blog. Of themselves, all good things. Worldwide news coverage available through CNN; free speech unrestricted by artificial limitations on radio; internet connectivity and the wealth of knowlege available through the 'net.

    However, news focuses on conflict -- always. It is inimical to good reportage (go back and read Lippman etc. if you don't want to take my word for it). Conflict sells advertising and gets peoples' attention. Implicitly, however, it also rewards with air time and exposure those people who play off or incite conflict and thereby make a good story. Ann Coulter throws bombs because it gets attention. The media reports on them for that same reason. The same can be said of terrorist efforts throughout the 1970s and 1980s -- media exposure was part of the goal.

    Talk radio took over the US airwaves very soon after the Fairness Doctrine was removed. Why? Without that doctrine, radio stations no longer had to provide expensive broadcast time to shows that wouldn't get ratings to provide "fairness" to offset the opinions being expressed by another show. Limbaugh, Boortz and their copyists now had a stage for their rants, their incitement of conflict (in the media/story sense, neither is an advocate of actual violence), and their show.

    Finally, we have the internet and the growing blogosphere. This too succumbs to the conflict sells dictum. Want somebody to read your post? Rant a bit and use a good deal of invective and charged language. Forget wall of words posts -- just call them a dirty no-good socialist reactionary. Again, incites a sense of conflict....and sells.


    Does a charged and partisan political climate contribute to violence? Possibly. Did it cause this shooting to happen? Almost certainly not. But the charged climate is real, agitation can lead to bitterness, and the end result may not be something we enjoy. Though I relish argument, the old standard posed by Aristotle is supposed to apply: thesis and antithesis yielding to synthesis.

    We understand out techonologies without understanding their impact upon us. We've been working with fire for how long now? Using tools for how long? Speaking to one another to coordinate actions for what span of time? We will be a while learning how to master the hypermediated context that is now the norm -- and coping with its limitations.

    Just a thought.
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 01-12-2011 at 05:29.
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  14. #104
    The Count of Bohemia Senior Member Cecil XIX's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Frankly, I wish our political rhetoric was more heated than it is now.


    EDIT: Whoops, Crazed Rabbit beat me to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    The message may be different, but the aggressive approach is shared. To say the right has more potentially violent rhetoric than the left is without evidence. Obama kept up a tone of fighting and defeating his political opponents. Many leftist protesters expressed seething hatred at Bush and republicans.



    It comes from a phrase spoken by one of our best Presidents - Thomas Jefferson. I don't think those who speak it truly appreciate what it means, believing themselves to be the patriots and their opponents the tyrants exclusively.

    Nor do I think our discourse has sunk to some unplumbed depth.

    CR
    Last edited by Cecil XIX; 01-12-2011 at 18:32.

  15. #105

    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Well, maybe it was a left-wing white supremacist organization, anything's possible ...
    Or, maybe still, he wasn't linked to the group at all. Anything is possible.

    An Arizona law enforcement agency is backing away from a document it produced in the aftermath of Saturday’s shootings in Tucson – and which was leaked to Fox News – that linked the man accused with carrying out the crimes to a white nationalist publication.


    “I do have no reason to believe in anything that we did that (Loughner) had any direct connection or was being directed by American Renaissance,” Denlinger, an Arizona state police major, told POLITICO Tuesday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    And joining the Wetboro Baptists in the tastelessness hall of fame, Mr. Limbaugh declares that the shooter has the "full support" of the Democratic Party. Amazing. I expect nobody on the right will call him on this.
    After the vitriol that has been directed at him in the last 48 hours with no merit, I don't blame him for lashing out. Not to mention that he actually has a point. Democrats have seized on this from the beginning to score political points.


    Anyway, I thought I was in the minority in thinking that we might want to wait until an actual motive is established before burning down Sarah Palin's house, but as usual the American people prove more rational than certain backroom personalities.

    Nearly six in 10 Americans say that the country’s heated political rhetoric isn’t to blame for the Saturday shooting in Tucson, according to a new poll Tuesday.

    In a CBS News poll — the first in the wake of the tragic killings — 57 percent of those surveyed said they didn’t think alleged gunman Jared Lee Loughner was motivated by the country’s sometimes raucous political discourse. Thirty-two percent said they thought it was, the poll found.
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 01-12-2011 at 12:22.

  16. #106
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Or, maybe still, he wasn't linked to the group at all. Anything is possible.
    Yup, saw that update earlier today. Before you puff up into a perfect sphere of offendedness and high dudgeon, please note that I have been saying from the beginning of this thread that no politician or party can be blamed for the shooter's actions. Judging by the tone of your post, I'm guessing you glossed over that.

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    After the vitriol that has been directed at him in the last 48 hours with no merit, I don't blame [Limbaugh] for lashing out. Not to mention that he actually has a point.
    Mm-hmmm. At this point, I don't believe there is anything Boss Limbaugh could say that would cause his adherents to question or correct him. As you demonstrate.

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Anyway, I thought I was in the minority in thinking that we might want to wait until an actual motive is established before burning down Sarah Palin's house [...]
    What is it with right-wingers and the rhetoric of victimization? Why is it that everyone from Limbaugh to Beck to PJ is behaving as though they were somehow the victims of this tragedy?

  17. #107

    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Yup, saw that update earlier today. Before you puff up into a perfect sphere of offendedness and high dudgeon, please note that I have been saying from the beginning of this thread that no politician or party can be blamed for the shooter's actions. Judging by the tone of your post, I'm guessing you glossed over that.
    I simply corrected your earlier false assertion with accurate information. I'm not sure why you're being so sensitive, nothing personal.


    Mm-hmmm. At this point, I don't believe there is anything Boss Limbaugh could say that would cause his adherents to question or correct him. As you demonstrate.
    I don't listen to Rush. I do know that prominent Democrats, including that dolt of a sheriff in Tucson, have tried to tie him to this event without any evidence that the shooter even listened to his program. Those are very serious allegations, and I don't blame him for calling the Democrats out on their insistence that this event validates their rhetoric against the Right without even a tangential link to base their claims on. They want it so bad, and it is indeed disgusting to watch.

    What is it with right-wingers and the rhetoric of victimization? Why is it that everyone from Limbaugh to Beck to PJ is behaving as though they were somehow the victims of this tragedy?
    Again, there is no need to make this personal.

  18. #108
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    ...PJ is behaving as though they were somehow the victims of this tragedy?
    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Again, there is no need to make this personal.
    PJ plays victim card again.
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    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Anyway, I thought I was in the minority in thinking that we might want to wait until an actual motive is established before burning down Sarah Palin's house, but as usual the American people prove more rational than certain backroom personalities.

    Nearly six in 10 Americans say that the country’s heated political rhetoric isn’t to blame for the Saturday shooting in Tucson, according to a new poll Tuesday.

    In a CBS News poll — the first in the wake of the tragic killings — 57 percent of those surveyed said they didn’t think alleged gunman Jared Lee Loughner was motivated by the country’s sometimes raucous political discourse. Thirty-two percent said they thought it was, the poll found.
    And to top it off, the demagogues call on more demagoguery to justify themselves... Beautiful.
    Last edited by al Roumi; 01-12-2011 at 17:00.

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    As much as I would love to point Palins soccer mom empire and blame it, I can't. Clearly Louis has no such scruples but his wonderfully verbose posts aside, all anyone has is tenuous links and assumptions.

    I think this guys mental illness had much more to do with the killings than did any political entity.

    Now do we have a healthy political climate right now? No.
    Have we ever? No.

    But to even frame this as the first shot is some 2nd rebillion is overstating things a bit
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  21. #111
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    I heard there is much mental illness within the loony right.
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  22. #112
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    I heard there is much mental illness within the loony right.
    You can play that snarky card all you want but when 50% of the mans you tube talks about grammar it becomes quite clear he does not operate on any spectrum that could be considred normal

    Booth, now THAT'S a political assassian
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  23. #113
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    As much as I would love to point Palins soccer mom empire and blame it, I can't. Clearly Louis has no such scruples but his wonderfully verbose posts aside, all anyone has is tenuous links and assumptions.

    I think this guys mental illness had much more to do with the killings than did any political entity.

    Now do we have a healthy political climate right now? No.
    Have we ever? No.

    But to even frame this as the first shot is some 2nd rebillion is overstating things a bit
    The killer does not have a clear political agenda, he's a loon. But: a loon who decided to become a killer, and one who picked a political target at that.

    The link is not direct. There is no smoking gun of a membership of his of some political club, or a notebok with some rationally worded politcal thought.
    But the killer is not a fool either. He is (almost) capable of leading a normal life, can attent college, hold a job. He is nto retarded, he is just schizophrenic, incapable of empathy, has a chaotic, confusing mixture of reality and his dreams in his mind. Thsi chaos, this 'conscious dreaming' as he calls it, he at some level understands is beyond his control. So something else is in control. What is? The government which seeks to control grammar. This is messing with his head. The oppressive government, the intrusive government, evil Washington, imposing fake grammar as well as a fake currency, all inconstitutnional.

    In the 1950's, this lunatic would've fought aliens, would've resisted them from trying to take him over with Martian mind control guns. In the 1800's, he would've been called Ezekiel and he would've fought biblical demons, messing with his head. In 2011, he fights an oppressive government and its unconstitutional grammar and currency control over him.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  24. #114
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    In the 1950's, this lunatic would've fought aliens, would've resisted them from trying to take him over with Martian mind control guns. In the 1800's, he would've been called Ezekiel and he would've fought biblical demons, messing with his head. In 2011, he fights an oppressive government and its unconstitutional grammar and currency control over him.
    The amount of vitriol has very little do to with that though.

    What's it going to be? curb our freedom of speech rights so crazy people maybe a LITTLE less likely to go off and be crazy?

    I am willing to accept a few dead people every few years so Beck and Olbermann can continue with their craziness.

    The institutions that we safegaurd are 10X more important than the people
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  25. #115
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Oh. Your. God. Sarah Palin declares that she is subject to a blood libel. This is not a joke, I am not sourcing from the Onion. Best response I've yet seen:

    Sarah Palin has a perfect right, both legally and morally, to protest those who are trying to directly tie her, her rhetoric, or the rhetoric of her political allies, to Loughner.

    Doing so by asserting that her and her pals getting pinked for their political messaging is just like the entire nation of the Jews enduring centuries of pogroms and persecution because of the enduring lie that they murdered babies for their religious ceremonies? [...]

    Again: Palin perfectly correct to complain about those trying to blame her for Loughner’s actions. But of all the stupid, appalling, jackassed things Sarah Palin has ever said in the history of the time she’s inflicted herself on the consciousness of our great nation, this is, alas, merely the most recent.

  26. #116

    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    The amount of vitriol has very little do to with that though.

    What's it going to be? curb our freedom of speech rights so crazy people maybe a LITTLE less likely to go off and be crazy?

    I am willing to accept a few dead people every few years so Beck and Olbermann can continue with their craziness.

    The institutions that we safegaurd are 10X more important than the people
    No, the crappy posturing is already a bad and damaging thing. Louis is argument is at worst like those studies showing how exercise makes you smarter, sure the link is suspect but you should be exercising anyway.

  27. #117
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    The killer does not have a clear political agenda, he's a loon. But: a loon who decided to become a killer, and one who picked a political target at that.

    The link is not direct. There is no smoking gun of a membership of his of some political club, or a notebok with some rationally worded politcal thought.
    But the killer is not a fool either. He is (almost) capable of leading a normal life, can attent college, hold a job. He is nto retarded, he is just schizophrenic, incapable of empathy, has a chaotic, confusing mixture of reality and his dreams in his mind. Thsi chaos, this 'conscious dreaming' as he calls it, he at some level understands is beyond his control. So something else is in control. What is? The government which seeks to control grammar. This is messing with his head. The oppressive government, the intrusive government, evil Washington, imposing fake grammar as well as a fake currency, all inconstitutnional.

    In the 1950's, this lunatic would've fought aliens, would've resisted them from trying to take him over with Martian mind control guns. In the 1800's, he would've been called Ezekiel and he would've fought biblical demons, messing with his head. In 2011, he fights an oppressive government and its unconstitutional grammar and currency control over him.
    Fresh off of Drudge:
    Jared Loughner’s friend says suspect ‘Did not watch TV … disliked the news’
    He did not watch TV. He disliked the news. He didn’t listen to political radio. He didn’t take sides. He wasn’t on the left. He wasn’t on the right.
    On the list for really stupid laws proposed: Rep King wants to ban knowingly carrying a gun within 'certain high profile government officials'. Because, you know, the peasant's right to self defense goes away when the nobles are nearby, so that the safety of the nobles can be maintained (not that such a law would do anything to stop people who did want to kill government folks).

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  28. #118

    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    My policy has always been:

    Disregard Drudge.
    Acquire sanity.


  29. #119
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    My policy has always been:

    Disregard Drudge.
    Acquire sanity.
    What went wrong then?
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
    Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.

    Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  30. #120

    Default Re: US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot, Six Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
    What went wrong then?
    Everyone else didn't follow my advice and went insane from the Drudge.


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