Significance of the Battle of Manzikert

[Brandy Blue]

Interesting.

A couple of comments.

1: Last line of 4th paragraph. I think it should say "mostly due" or "in part due." Mostly in part due just doesn't sound right. I wouldn't normally mention such a trivial point, but you said this is for your diploma, so I assume you want everything as perfect as possible.

2: I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the negative effects of the pronoia system. Possibly that needs to be spelt out?

3: This is speculation on my part, but could the surprisingly fast loss of Armenia have to do with religious tensions? Had the orthodox Byzantines been persecuting the allegedly "heretical" Armenian church? Would the Armenians welcome the attitude of a more tolerant Turkish ruler?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Thank you Edyz!

I think quotations do not infringe upon any copyrights. Should you so desire, you can edit the OP to a version including quotations.

[edyzmedieval]

Interesting.

A couple of comments.

1: Last line of 4th paragraph. I think it should say "mostly due" or "in part due." Mostly in part due just doesn't sound right. I wouldn't normally mention such a trivial point, but you said this is for your diploma, so I assume you want everything as perfect as possible.

Ouch. Missed that. I gave it in long time ago, in May 2010, and it got me the maximum mark but still ouch.

2: I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the negative effects of the pronoia system. Possibly that needs to be spelt out?

When you give out land to the pronoiars, they provide military service and a tax. When a huge land is lost, the pronoia system disappears and such there is no tax. And because the pronoiars tended to be very egotistical and cared only about their own interest, instead of having lots of pronoiars on small tracts of land you had huge landowners owning much more than they were supposed to, affecting the military capabilities.

3: This is speculation on my part, but could the surprisingly fast loss of Armenia have to do with religious tensions? Had the orthodox Byzantines been persecuting the allegedly "heretical" Armenian church? Would the Armenians welcome the attitude of a more tolerant Turkish ruler?

I looked in that as well and I dismissed it because the Seljuq Turks were no better in treating the Armenians, it was the same governance, more or less. During the times of Basil the IInd, merely 50 years before Manzikert, Armenia enjoyed a special status within the empire and that was supposed to help the Byzantines, not work against them.

Thank you Edyz!

[Strike For The South]

What language was the original draft written in?

[edyzmedieval]

What language was the original draft written in?

English, why? I opted for the "formal approach" that's why it sounds so rigid.

[PanzerJaeger]

Very informative writeup! A+

Reading things like this reminds me of the vastness of human history and how little of it I, or any one person, will ever be able to know. Thanks for sharing it.

[Brandy Blue]

Thanks for your response Edyz. I'm glad the little grammar slip wasn't held against you. It shouldn't be.

It seems to me that losing a large and valuable territory will damage an empire's tax base and military capability with or without pronoia. Still, I take your point. The pronoia system's disadvantages tie in with the corruption and greed you mentioned in your essay.

So religious strife did not cause Armenian disloyalty. What about the Arab invasion of Egypt in the 7th century? Allegedly the Egyptians did not resist because they were fed up with heavy taxes and religious persecution. Do you happen to know if that is true, or just another myth?

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks for your response Edyz. I'm glad the little grammar slip wasn't held against you. It shouldn't be.

It seems to me that losing a large and valuable territory will damage an empire's tax base and military capability with or without pronoia. Still, I take your point. The pronoia system's disadvantages tie in with the corruption and greed you mentioned in your essay.

So religious strife did not cause Armenian disloyalty. What about the Arab invasion of Egypt in the 7th century? Allegedly the Egyptians did not resist because they were fed up with heavy taxes and religious persecution. Do you happen to know if that is true, or just another myth?

The Arab invasion of Egypt was somewhat different than the invasion of Anatolia/Byzantium. Most of the Arab rulers were competent and provided the whole territory with reforms, capable administration and expansion (Arab Caliphate of Egypt was quite powerful throughout the whole Medieval times) so it was not hard for the population to accept them. On a similar note, the Seljuq rulers weren't rejected either, there was not much the population could do about them because they were so many but at the same time they were eager rulers for a territory to settle down in and provide a base for future expansion so they had all the interest in the world to behave nicely.

What is surprising is the lack of a coherent reply against the Seljuqs until Alexios Komnenos came to throne. And that did not last long either (Manuel, 80 years later).