49 States have snow

[a completely inoffensive name]

Fuel cells are still a long way off, but there is actually a major industry working on that right now. Basically, the technology is already there and working but it is now about getting the economics of scale to work out; hybrids could be an option there. I understand that to some degree it is the same story with electric cars but fuel cells have the added bonus of not needing to lug around batteries (which do get heavy and which do take up space).

You should not forget that battery-based electric cars have been flogged for longer than you or I have lived. The basic technology has been put into production cars since the 80s but battery cars consistently fail to deliver/take off in the real world. The closest you'll get is the Prius and other such hybrids, which still very much rely on that secondary engine for getting actual range or performance out of it.

I agree your average daily commute isn't 120 miles, but even in the Netherlands where the bike is a serious alternative to the car, a max range of 240 miles will still be a handicap on the market for any car that is to be sold based on its merit as a car rather than on some claim of good-for-the-environment.

Not directly related to the topic of the Tesla (but certainly to the topic of relying on fossil fuel); you may find this article interesting as well (a BP energy supply/demand forecast/projection till 2030). http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01..._outlook_2030/

The basic technology has from what I have heard constantly been held back for decades by oil/gas lobbyists. People have recommended to me watching a documentary called "Who Killed the Electric Car?" This might all be hearsay, but I wouldn't be surprised that the reason that electric car technology hasn't radically changed in decades is because market forces don't want it to radically change for the better (until recently).

Well I am sure that limit as I have said before will continue to expand over the next 5-15 years, which will dampen that handicap quite a bit. Unless the fuel cells become worked out with the economy of scale in that time, then like I said I don't see another viable alternative.

Thanks for the link, I still need to comb over it more carefully before making any sort of judgment on what it says.

[HoreTore]

Conspiracy theories are almost always theories.

There is no grand scheme to stop the electric car by some money-grubbers. American car companies have simply chosen to focus their attention on other aspects of their compaby, as they have had the belief that the SUV is the way forward, not the electric car.

But there is no focus on SUV's in Japan or Germany, nor are there any allegations of "powerful lobbies" keeping the electric car down, but there still hasn't come a revolutionary electic car from either of them. Why? Probably because we're not smart enough to make them yet, we haven't come that far in our scientific progress.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Conspiracy theories are almost always theories.

There is no grand scheme to stop the electric car by some money-grubbers. American car companies have simply chosen to focus their attention on other aspects of their compaby, as they have had the belief that the SUV is the way forward, not the electric car.

But there is no focus on SUV's in Japan or Germany, nor are there any allegations of "powerful lobbies" keeping the electric car down, but there still hasn't come a revolutionary electic car from either of them. Why? Probably because we're not smart enough to make them yet, we haven't come that far in our scientific progress.

Perhaps, but you don't have the same knowledge of the corporate-government relationship the US has had since the large railroad subsidies of the 1840s.

EDIT: By that I mean for the US, it is not outside the realm of possibility for lobbyists to suppress research efforts or at least funding towards organizations that were involved in such research.

[HoreTore]

Perhaps, but you don't have the same knowledge of the corporate-government relationship the US has had since the large railroad subsidies of the 1840s.

EDIT: By that I mean for the US, it is not outside the realm of possibility for lobbyists to suppress research efforts or at least funding towards organizations that were involved in such research.

So what?

There's no hint of such a lobby in Japan, and do you see any revolutionary electric car there?

If Ford wanted to cut funding for an electric car there would be no need to go to congress, they could just slash their own research budget. Who's researching an electric car in the US? There are no others with the knowledge and resources to do it than GM, Ford and "thatlastoneIcan'trememberjustnow". And those three made the simple business decision that the money was in SUV's, and that there wouldn't be much profit in an electric car.

A standard decision, made every day in board rooms all over the world. Nothing sinister about it.

[Fragony]

About electric cars, what do you want to do with the batteries after the cars lifecycle runs it course, very enviromently friendly uh-huh. Hybrids also suck, they only go electric on low speeds, on higher speeds the weak engine needs to haul the extra weight of the electrical engine, no benefit whatsoever. Modern cars hardly pollute, and can be recycled almost nothing goes to waste.

[gaelic cowboy]

I wouldn't worry about disposal of batteries Frag we will do what we already do nowadays recycle and safely dispose of them in special facilities.

Far better reason might to discuss the relative merits or demerits of the fact that any expansion of the electric car will require a lot of rare materials at present technology levels.

[HoreTore]

About electric cars, what do you want to do with the batteries after the cars lifecycle runs it course, very enviromently friendly uh-huh. Hybrids also suck, they only go electric on low speeds, on higher speeds the weak engine needs to haul the extra weight of the electrical engine, no benefit whatsoever. Modern cars hardly pollute, and can be recycled almost nothing goes to waste.

Batteries?

You are aware that there is one in your car too, right? Along with more electronics than you could dream of. The larger battery needed for an electric car will do almost nothing, and is one of the most over-hyped bits of technology the world has ever seen.

[Fragony]

I wouldn't worry about disposal of batteries Frag we will do what we already do nowadays recycle and safely dispose of them in special facilities.

Far better reason might to discuss the relative merits or demerits of the fact that any expansion of the electric car will require a lot of rare materials at present technology levels.

Batteries aren't that easily recycled. But yeah to materials. Especially when it comes to solar panels. There just isn't enough

@Horetore, they are tiny in normal cars

[gaelic cowboy]

Solar panels are a terrible investment and require a lot of subsidy before they pay back, far better to use solar thermal power if using the sun is your thing.

On the subject of solar energy a good investment for your home IF you have the room obviously is a Geothermal Heat Pump they are an excellent buy to reduce your bill due to trying to heat water.

And if you do have the chance and money then try to get as close to a Passive House as you can, you might as well when your laying down big money to build anyway.

[HoreTore]

@Horetore, they are tiny in normal cars

Really? They're much bigger in an electric car? Twice the size, perhaps, not much more. And we've disposed of billions of these batteries already, I don't see much problem here. I see lots of hype though.

Npt to mention the tons of chemicals in a standard car you don't find in an electric car.

[gaelic cowboy]

Really? They're much bigger in an electric car? Twice the size, perhaps, not much more. And we've disposed of billions of these batteries already, I don't see much problem here. I see lots of hype though.

Npt to mention the tons of chemicals in a standard car you don't find in an electric car.

There is as I see it no problem in how we would dispose of these kinds of batteries we have the tech already it just requires ramping up a bit to increase capacity.

There is however a problem that a lot of rare materials are required in electric cars for the motors etc etc, at present tech there is no way around it and it will cost a lot as we gobble more and more of these materials. On the plus side Toyota are investing money trying to develop rare earthless electric motors but it's likely to cost a bit and take a while to produce an actual production model.

[Fragony]

Really? They're much bigger in an electric car? Twice the size, perhaps, not much more. And we've disposed of billions of these batteries already, I don't see much problem here. I see lots of hype though.

Npt to mention the tons of chemicals in a standard car you don't find in an electric car.

Of course they are bigger, they have to do a little but more than igniting fuel. Even a hybrid that only uses electricity at low speeds is much heavier because of them

[Hosakawa Tito]

Thus Global Warming is disproved

Check please

Yeah, according to scientists 49 states have snow

Hehehe, and last Thursday I left the only state, Hawaii excluded, that didn't have snow. Bad move.