CTD during summer 265 BC

[idwilson]

Hi,

Can anyone think of some trigger or event that occurs either right at the end of the Seleucid turn or at the start of the Carthage 265 BC turn (i.e. 7 years into the game).

It has happened now after three restarted campaigns.

I have tried the 1.2 workarounds, including changing to seleucid and jiggling things around in game before clicking the end turn. I am unable to get to Carthage after having switched to them, so it is something that happens at the end of the Seleucid turn or before the player is able to interact with the Carthage faction.

I have been looking through the files for literally weeks, so if anyone can think of something in the mod somewhere that fits the above I will be extremely grateful.

I have been a long time away from RTW and really like the government and related side to the game, which has made things interesting again.

[XSamatan]

Please upload those save-games, I'll give them a try at my build, don't forget to note down exe, mods and other things you may have changed.
If your installation is clean running validateinstallation.bat gives the chance to look if files are changed in your build.

XSamatan

[idwilson]

Hi

Thanks for the reply. I have modified the unit attribute file, which has been entirely stable for hundreds of turns - the changes may be of interest to some and reflect my 30 years of tabletop ancients play (having started as a teenager). In general, these can be summarised as reducing unit morale, increasing the effect of shock (i.e. the effect of fear on units, not the shock of impact - e.g. make units more sensitive to their flanks and cavalry), taking a close look at all units (from what I have read, the EB team acknowledge that there are some rogue types in there), adopting Phil Barker's work on ancients as the standard for unit availability and characteristics, introducing a lot of the BI unit attributes and normalising costs (among other things). Cavalry are now more scary to infantry, but less effective if they do not actually break the unit they charge. This has partly been achieved by changing the charge bonus for cavalry based on the horse ridden, with ponies getting a very small bonus and the better eastern horses far superior bonuses. This has allowed for interesting combinations of cavarly role and mount - so you can have light cavalry on superior mounts performing well against light cavalry on smaller mounts. It also means that their battlefield role defines their class, so you can have 'heavy' melee type cavalry mounted on 'inferior' horses and light cavalry mounted on superior horses.

As the effect of cavalry on infantry is based on morale shock and order, and not shock of impact (horses do not want to charge into walls no matter what some people would have others think). Horses are not effective battering rams if used against formed infantry and will simply refuse to close if the infantry maintain their order. This isn't the case with cavalry exchanges, with horses being quite happy to contact other horses - with the different sizes of horses contributing to balancing. Disciplined units are far fewer and 'low' units more common, depending on their role on the battlefield and reliability. Units are graded as missile (mainly bow, weak melee weapon), skirmish (mainly javelin, good melee weapon and shield), light, spear and heavy - with unit sizes modified accordingly. Here, a lot of missile units are quite small (e.g. hellenic bowmen), but have extra ammunition. In contrast, skirmish units are larger units with a dual role of chasing off enemy light units and harassing formed units, so are larger in size (e.g. velites and early peltasts). Light infantry generally become heavy skirmishers (e.g. thureophoroi). Spear and heavy infantry become those troops whose main battlefield role is melee, but can be loose or close order troops. There are other things I could list, but they are not relevant to my problem - I got carried away with my description. This work has resulted in very encouraging results on the battlefield and the tactical use of units better reflects history. Most importantly, there are no issues with stability caused by these changes.

However, the vast number of character traits being added, and high frequency of some very quite 'colourful' traits led me to look at reducing the number of traits added. Again, I have a program that allows me to batch process these changes, but the process of writing it led me to a number of errors within the EDCT and EDA (helped later by the ATVTW utility). For example, some traits do not exist or have been deprecated without all occurances being updated (e.g. the commander/leader change). AcquireAncillary has too many parameters in a relatively few cases, although encountering these triggers may be rare or never. There are other minor fixes that I have made, e.g. adding a semi-colon to the start of some ------------------ lines. It may be that fixing the syntax of some of these commands has resulted in something unforeseen that isn't encountered using the files as written. However, I cannot see anything in these changes that would make the game crash consistently after 7 years of play.

The only thing I have found is the money rule, which made me wonder if there was something hiding away somewhere that is triggered after 7 years.

Although this involved quite a bit of initial manual work in an editor, I have written a batch processing program that allows me to conditionally tweak units with as little effort as possible.

I then looked at the formation files, which again have been entirely stable and are simply slightly tweaked existing modifications (such as manipular setup).

I have also looked at some inconsistencies in the use of SettlementName and I_SettlementName, which may have resulted in unforeseen events or triggers, but there is nothing obvious in the changes I have made.

The fact that there are tweaks to the AI support after seven years for the Carthaginians and this is where it is crashing makes me wonder if there is something else being triggered somewhere at this point.

For me, this is an excellent mod from a strategic historical and government point of view that was being spoilt by the preponderance of traits and some aspects of the battlefield. I am very pleased with how the battlefield handles now, but seem to have dug a hole for myself trying to reduce the effect of traits and/or by fixing some of the syntactical problems in the data files.

Sorry for the long reply, but I though the background might help with understanding the problem - if you still think uploading the save file will help then I will do that too.

Best regards and thank you for your efforts past, present and future,

Ian

P.S. history is my hobby, computing my job.

[XSamatan]

The fact that there are tweaks to the AI support after seven years for the Carthaginians and this is where it is crashing makes me wonder if there is something else being triggered somewhere at this point.

The only thing I can remember on side of the Carthies is Xanthippos

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;;Human player not Karthadast;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType egypt
and I_TurnNumber = 67
and not I_LocalFaction egypt
    spawn_army
        faction egypt
        character, Xanthippos ofcarthago, named character, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 40, , x 83, y 100
        unit hellenistic infantry spartiateshoplitai, exp 2 armor 1 weapon_lvl 0
    end
    console_command give_trait "Xanthippos ofcarthago" XanthipposBiography 1
    console_command give_trait "Xanthippos ofcarthago" NaturalIntelligence 4
    console_command give_trait "Xanthippos ofcarthago" NaturalCharisma 2
    console_command give_trait "Xanthippos ofcarthago" NaturalEnergy 4
    console_command give_trait "Xanthippos ofcarthago" Selflessness 2
    console_command give_trait "Xanthippos ofcarthago" Temperament 2
    console_command give_trait "Xanthippos ofcarthago" Loyalty 4
    console_command give_trait "Xanthippos ofcarthago" TurnsAlive 4
    console_command give_trait "Xanthippos ofcarthago" CommandExperience 3
    console_command give_trait "Xanthippos ofcarthago" Outsider 1
    console_command give_trait "Xanthippos ofcarthago" GoodTactician 1
    console_command give_trait "Xanthippos ofcarthago" GoodAttacker 1
    console_command give_trait "Xanthippos ofcarthago" Disciplinarian 1
    console_command give_trait "Xanthippos ofcarthago" Stoic 1
    console_command give_ancillary "Xanthippos ofcarthago" mercenary_captain
    terminate_monitor
end_monitor

but he is spawned later on.

The time (7 years are only 28 turns) is too short for achieving reforms that are not linked to a turn number. Did you try to revert back to a point before editing those support options if that is possible?
On turn 30 the Central European Defense Script is fired, this could be a possible lead.

We can try to load your saves on my build, but after that amount of changes you described in your post I doubt it will help to solve it.

Could you provide me with the exact turn-number (if it is the same in all crashes)?

Did you try to get over the critical point while the backgroundscript is deactivated?

XSamatan

[idwilson]

Thanks again for the reply. :)

I have done a complete reinstall, cycled through the game until 264 BC with only the changes to units and formations without a problem.

I am about to try it with the reduced percentages for gaining some of the traits to see if that is stable. I'll post again with the results.

I very much appreciate that you have taken the time to try and help, even though this is a project of my own. :)

Best regards,

Ian

[XSamatan]

You are welcome!

[idwilson]

Hi again,

I've reduced the chances (using a small program I have written) for gaining some of the more colourful traits and played past the offending turn without problem

What I haven't done is fix the bugs in the two files I mentioned earlier (e.g. gain ancillary for macedonia governor and so on, commander and one incidence of the comments mentioning a 1, 2, 3 progression through acquiring points but the code actually being 1, 2, 2.

I'll leave those alone for now and see how far I get.

[XSamatan]

If you point me to those errors we'll gladly correct them for EB 1.3! As nearly all manpower goes to EB2, 'small' errors, misspellings and similar stuff won't be dig into right now.

XSamatan

[idwilson]

Hi

Sorry for delay reading your reply.

Here's some of the things that have been picked up as errors. I have no idea if they actually impact on the game in the sense that they are actually triggered or cause problems. I cannot claim any credit given that ATVTW picked them up.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Error: Parsing EDCT failed, the followng errors were found:

Line 63371 - Error: Expecting Trigger - Found: ------------------------------------------

Line 151074 - Error: Expecting Trigger - Found: ------------------------------------------

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Error: Parsing EDA failed, the followng errors were found:

Line 6137 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Macedonia 1 Chance 100

Line 6157 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Macedonia 1 Chance 100

Line 6177 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Macedonia 1 Chance 100

Line 6196 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Asia 1 Chance 100

Line 6215 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Asia 1 Chance 100

Line 6234 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Asia 1 Chance 100

Line 6253 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Achaea 1 Chance 100

Line 6272 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Achaea 1 Chance 100

Line 6291 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Achaea 1 Chance 100

Line 6310 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Bithynia 1 Chance 100

Line 6329 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Bithynia 1 Chance 100

Line 6348 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Bithynia 1 Chance 100

Line 6367 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Africa_Nova 1 Chance 100

Line 6386 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Africa_Nova 1 Chance 100

Line 6405 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Syria 1 Chance 100

Line 6424 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Syria 1 Chance 100

Line 6443 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Syria 1 Chance 100

Line 6460 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Judaea 1 Chance 100

Line 6479 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Gallia_Comata 1 Chance 100

Line 6499 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Cyrenacia 1 Chance 100

Line 6519 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Cyrenacia 1 Chance 100

Line 6539 - Error: Invalid AcquireAncillary line, expected 'AcquireAncillary <ancillary> chance <percent>', found: AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Cyrenacia 1 Chance 100

Line 9130 - Error: Expecting Trigger - Found: ------------------------------------------

'Fixing' these allows other anomalies to surface.

All the best.

Ian

[idwilson]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;Trait: Areskos - Obsequious
; o Areskos (1): <Influence> 1, <PersonalSecurity> 1
; o Areskoteros (2): <Influence> 1, <PersonalSecurity> 2, <Law> -1
; o Areskotatos (3): <Influence> 1, <PersonalSecurity> 2, <TroopMorale> -1

code threshold is actually 1, 2, 2, should read 1, 2, 3?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

trigger_oracle_Eastern
CultureType eastern > 0

delete > 0?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Trait Renown
Characters family
ExcludeCultures barbarian
NoGoingBackLevel 3
AntiTraits BadCommander

BadLeader?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Trait IndecisiveAttacker
Characters family
ExcludeCultures barbarian
NoGoingBackLevel 4
AntiTraits GoodCommander, GoodAttacker

GoodLeader?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Trait Warlord
Characters family
ExcludeCultures carthaginian, egyptian, greek, roman
NoGoingBackLevel 4
AntiTraits Coward, BadCommander

BadLeader?

These appear once the files parse, along with a lot of settlement names. However, as settlementname uses the map name and not internal name I lost a lot of time exploring these.

[Saprobi]

I'm having the same problem but its in the Summer of 262 bc.
I haven't changed anything to the game.

Can anyone help me?

[XSamatan]

Go through the hints given in the frequent issues regarding CTD's. In case you are not able to solve it, post back here with a recent save.

XSamatan