The Palestine Papers

[Louis VI the Fat]

Well it looks as if we are living in a new era of hitherto unimaginable (involuntary) transparancy indeed.

Leaked US helicopter attack videos, US diplomatic cables, Swiss bank accounts, the workings of a major American bank (upcoming by wikileaks). And now:

The Palestine Papers.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/palestine-papers
http://english.aljazeera.net/palestinepapers/


The peace process is over. The papers reveal that the PA has been willing to concede nearly everything. That Israel refuses anything. That America is not at all an honest broker.

What a farce.

It's over. Given the shocking nature, extent and detail of these ghastly revelations from behind the closed doors of the Middle East peace process, the seemingly endless and ugly game is now, finally, over. Not one of the villains on the Palestinian side can survive it. With any luck the sheer horror of this account of how the US and Britain covertly facilitated and even implemented Israeli military expansion – while creating an oligarchy to manage it – might overcome the entrenched interests and venality that have kept the peace process going. A small group of men who have polluted the Palestinian public sphere with their private activities are now exposed.

For us Palestinians, these detailed accounts of the secretly negotiated surrender of every one of our core rights under international law (of return for millions of Palestinian refugees, on annexing Arab Jerusalem, on settlements) are not a surprise. It is something that we all knew – in spite of official protests to the contrary – because we feel their destructive effects every day. The same is true of the outrageous role of the US and Britain in creating a security bantustan, and the ruin of our civic and political space. We already knew, because we feel its fatal effects.

For the overwhelming majority of Palestinians, official Palestinian policy over these past decades has been the antithesis of a legitimate, or representative, or even coherent strategy to obtain our long-denied freedom. But this sober appreciation of our current state of affairs, accompanied by the mass protests and civil society campaigns by Palestinian citizens, has been insufficient, until now, to rid us of it.

The release into the public domain of these documents is such a landmark because it destroys the final traces of credibility of the peace process.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...r-palestinians

[a completely inoffensive name]

Dang. That's not good.

[Fragony]

East-Jeruzalem is quite the concession, if this is true it's bad

[Subotan]

What more does Israel want? There's nothing else that Israel could demand other than the utterly insane (Annexation of all Israeli settlements in the West Bank into Israel maybe?) and completely impractical in the long term. It's now as clear as day that with such a yawning disparity of power and strength between the two parties that bilateral talks are doomed to fail and for all intents and purposes are dead. If the United States wants peace in the Middle East, it must impose a unilateral state of peace upon Israel.

For us Palestinians, these detailed accounts of the secretly negotiated surrender of every one of our core rights under international law (of return for millions of Palestinian refugees)

However, I really don't see how this is a "core right". The Right of Return for Palestinians beyond any symbolic few families moving back is an impossible demand that Palestinians should have realised long ago to give up.

[rory_20_uk]

I very much doubt that America would be so blunt, as they can after all pretend to be in the middle. They have nothing to gain from being hostile to the Palestinians. I am also surprised that the Israelis would have flatly refused. Why not keep the farce going with counter offer? They're slowly taking what they want anyway, so a few words doesn't matter.

I don't think America can control Israel - or at least, they view the strategic loss of Israel too great to risk.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Well, put this into perspective: this is not about what happened today or even last year. This is about what happened during the Bush admin, which was somewhat more unconditionally supportive of Israel than the current one is. We also knew that within the Likud party a preference for settling this conflict by means of the IDF rather than peace process persists.

[Idaho]

What Israel seems to want to is to squeeze the occupied territories constantly and completely. To break up, sabotage and destroy political infrastructure, and to compromise and cripple civil society. Their end aim seems to be for the Palestinians to leave, and Isreal create a greater state. And so far, they seem to be on track.

[gaelic cowboy]

Such a laugh from the amount of coverage on Sky this morning you would think Andy Grays comments on women refs were the big story.

[Furunculus]

Their end aim seems to be for the Palestinians to leave, and Isreal create a greater state. And so far, they seem to be on track.

they're obviously failing massively if you look at the growth rate in the west bank, and particularly so the gaza strip:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...ies#Population

[rory_20_uk]

More people, but year on year in less land.

[Subotan]

Arab Christians claim the region as their own, although they become progressively fewer with each passing year.

[Beskar]

Bethlehem has the highest proportion of Palestinian Christians and the Christians make up 30% of Bethlehem's population. Then it is 3% overall in the other Palestinian territories.

The Christians and Jewish populations of Israel get on very very well. This is also reflected in the national status of being effectively 'partners' with the USA being held in Israel and the pricing of US dollars for goods.

One thing I did notice was the visual difference between the Israeli and Muslim areas. In short, the Jewish people are heavily influenced from the west, so you can imagine well kept gardens, Western architectural styles for buildings and so on. The Muslim areas are effectively a dump because they lack the western style emphasis on their creations. The exception to this rule are rich and western influenced Muslims in the area, which are unfortunately not that many.

The Palestinian areas are very much as you can guess from the above, are a dump. The cities and towns are covered in Street rats (Children begging and stealing), and there is a general disorder and breakdown of society, especially compared the Israeli areas which are very ordered (more so than Britain).

[Beirut]

The Palestinian areas are very much as you can guess from the above, are a dump. The cities and towns are covered in Street rats (Children begging and stealing), and there is a general disorder and breakdown of society, especially compared the Israeli areas which are very ordered (more so than Britain).

When you and yours are given the same consideration people give to rats, and when you and yours are killed off like rats, and when great powers conspire to have you and yours eternally looked upon as rats, it is conceivable that you and yours may eventually behave like rats.

The downfall of the Palestinian people is all going according to the plans of external forces.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...The downfall of the Palestinian people is all going according to the plans of external forces.

You have a far greater belief in the efficiency of government then I ever will.

There was no coherent plan behind the formation of Israel, and any plans since have been haphazard and reactive -- with unintended consequences largely ignored. It has taken on a life of its own -- a poisonous existence as our Lemur notes -- that is in no way truly controlled by the participants much less those watching horrified from the sidelines.

[Vladimir]

You have a far greater belief in the efficiency of government then I ever will.

There was no coherent plan behind the formation of Israel, and any plans since have been haphazard and reactive -- with unintended consequences largely ignored. It has taken on a life of its own -- a poisonous existence as our Lemur notes -- that is in no way truly controlled by the participants much less those watching horrified from the sidelines.

It's called a conspiracy theory. I'd even place people like Noam Chumpsky (reference to another thread in this category) into this category. The mind likes to fill in our gaps of knowledge with unrealistic scenarios. Idealists have the same problem. Incompetence and self-interest are more responsible than any organized plan. They are also our two greatest allies in combating terrorism.

[Beirut]

You have a far greater belief in the efficiency of government then I ever will.

Governments are highly efficient when it counts. They have the guns, the money, the law, the information gathering assets, and retain a monopoly on the use of force. They also have, when required - usually to maintain their own interest - a highly concentrated sense of purpose.

There was no coherent plan behind the formation of Israel, . . .

You think it was done on a whim?

[ICantSpellDawg]

The peace process is over. The papers reveal that the PA has been willing to concede nearly everything. That Israel refuses anything. That America is not at all an honest broker.

What a farce.

Israel is an evil state. It is a malignancy in the region. The majority of good Israelis are done a great disservice by their evil government. There will never be peace until modern Israel ceases to exist and is replaced by a non-apartheid government. Palestinians should learn from the non-violent resistance in Egypt.