Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 345678 LastLast
Results 181 to 210 of 214

Thread: The Palestine Papers

  1. #181
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    eh wut
    Last edited by Fragony; 02-06-2011 at 14:41.

  2. #182
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    GO SQUIRRALS, really just get the hell out of there

  3. #183
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    East of Augusta Vindelicorum
    Posts
    5,575

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Forget about the Six Nations*, this weekend's best entertainment is provided by the nazi and the lumberjack.



    * The Euro rugby tournament that is, not the genocided people from whose stolen land Beirut castigates others for stealing land.
    Dose anyone else see the irony of a Frenchman discussing the land theft of others? Particularly Canadian land theft?

    After all Canada is a relatively new country. The original theft took place under French and or British control.

    Also one could make a reasonable argument that excepting Île-de-France the whole country was snatched away from its rightful owners.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
    Mark Twain

  4. #184
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    [QUOTE=Fisherking;2053261613]Dose anyone else see the irony of a Frenchman discussing the land theft of others? /QUOTE]

    Irony makes them French to begin with, it's like Belgium sweating pure testosteron. Hold them back

  5. #185
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,617

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beirut View Post
    Soaring prose, lad. Soaring prose.
    So is a lot of what you say about the Israel-Palestine conflict, I think that is PJ's point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beirut View Post
    I don't see why. Since the Germans got whacked in every theater they fought in, that means someone was blowing those things up. And since my father was a someone and fought in a theater of WWII, it stands to reason that would have blown some up, too.

    So whether it was the Russians blowing them up "BOOM!" or the Americans blowing them up "BOOM!" or the British blowing them up "BOOM!" or the Canadians blowing them up "BOOM!", the fact remains - they done go blowed up

    "BOOM!"
    The emphasis and repetition towards the end cannot distract from the fact that you're heavily backpedaling now.

    Though it doesn't really matter whether your father destroyed a Jagdpanther or not, he probably did a good job anyway....


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  6. #186
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Forever adrift
    Posts
    5,958

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beirut View Post
    By the by, nice tank in your sig. My father used to blow those up.
    is that intended to:
    a) advance the current debate,
    b) merely act a 'pleasantry', or;
    c) troll for a angry reaction,
    just curious.............?
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  7. #187
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Albion
    Posts
    15,930
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    I stopped responding a while ago. There was no point when some one just regurgitates something blindingly like a Fox News talk-host, and doesn't address certain hypocrisies in their posts.
    Days since the Apocalypse began
    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."

  8. #188
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Well, from what I've seen, a lot of people here seem very concerned with the rights of displaced indigeous peoples.

    Methinks the Palestinians have much more backing now then they did a few pages back. Either that of the people who back Israel are freely admitting the land was stolen and that the Palesting are getting screwed over by right of might.
    Unto each good man a good dog

  9. #189
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    is that intended to:
    a) advance the current debate,
    b) merely act a 'pleasantry', or;
    c) troll for a angry reaction,
    just curious.............?
    Just having some fun, bubby.
    Unto each good man a good dog

  10. #190
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Forever adrift
    Posts
    5,958

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    I stopped responding a while ago. There was no point when some one just regurgitates something blindingly like a Fox News talk-host, and doesn't address certain hypocrisies in their posts.
    agreed, this did rather become a purposeless thread rather than a vehicle for discussion and learning.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  11. #191

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Beirut View Post
    Soaring prose, lad. Soaring prose.

    I can't say that it bears a hint of a whiff of a sniff of reality in it, but by God it was well written.
    And that is the point.

    I've read your posts for years Beirut, and even though you do not post here very often anymore, I remember that they were always insightful, measured responses - except when discussing this particular topic. I don't know if it triggers an emotional reaction in you, or if you think such methods further your point, but you become a one man propaganda machine for the Palestinian cause.

    Now of course you are free to post whatever you like, but I just wanted to point out that people tune out such absolutist rhetoric and your opinion soon loses credibility.


    I don't see why. Since the Germans got whacked in every theater they fought in, that means someone was blowing those things up.
    Interestingly enough, the Allies eventually had great success in every theatre except one.
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 02-07-2011 at 00:21.

  12. #192
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    8,408
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Was that the one between russia and finland?
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  13. #193
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    And that is the point.

    I've read your posts for years Beirut, and even though you do not post here very often anymore, I remember that they were always insightful, measured responses
    Kind of you to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    - except when discussing this particular topic. I don't know if it triggers an emotional reaction in you, or if you think such methods further your point, but you become a one man propaganda machine for the Palestinian cause.
    I see a people imprisoned and suffering. How can I not jump to their defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Now of course you are free to post whatever you like, but I just wanted to point out that people tune out such absolutist rhetoric and your opinion soon loses credibility.
    My concern isn't whether people tune out; my concern is that people speak loudly and forcefully when they see people being victimized. There is a lot of stigma and stones thrown at people who support the Palestinians. It's important that those people doing the throwing never think for one moment that the other side will ever give in, tone down, or walk away in fear. This is a human rights issue. Absolutism is required.

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Interestingly enough, the Allies eventually had great success in every theatre except one.
    And you will be dropping this particular shoe when?
    Unto each good man a good dog

  14. #194
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Sounds really bad that prison, really confuses me why all Palestians I know visit it every year. I'm invited for the summer, should I go it sounds kinda dangerous

  15. #195
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Sounds really bad that prison, really confuses me why all Palestians I know visit it every year. I'm invited for the summer, should I go it sounds kinda dangerous
    Home is home, even if it's not the best place. And why should a person not go home just because someone else is making it a bad place to be?

    I think Palestinians going back to Gaza shows a lot of heart.
    Unto each good man a good dog

  16. #196
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sogdiana
    Posts
    1,720

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Sounds really bad that prison, really confuses me why all Palestians I know visit it every year. I'm invited for the summer, should I go it sounds kinda dangerous
    I totally think you should go. I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts afterwards.

  17. #197
    Member Member Tuuvi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    The wild west
    Posts
    1,418

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Sounds really bad that prison, really confuses me why all Palestians I know visit it every year. I'm invited for the summer, should I go it sounds kinda dangerous
    I would go, who cares if its dangerous you'll probably be fine and it would be fun.

  18. #198
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,454

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    And what of the Canadian subjugation of the Native Americans? Megus can discuss at length their suffering. Certainly they deserve all their land back, and until then, Megus would be completely justified in launching rockets indiscriminately at Toronto....
    Of course not. By Beirut's logic he would be justified in targeting RCArmy and RCMP facilities as they are armed components of the oppressor state. Beirut was very clear about the AIMING thing, PJ. Beirut has NOT succumbed to the "They hit our kids so we should hit theirs" philosophy -- he has merely noted that there are those who do think that.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  19. #199
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuchip View Post
    I would go, who cares if its dangerous you'll probably be fine and it would be fun.
    That was kinda sarcasm. I know it will be fun should I go and I know that I will have no problems whatsoever beyond sugar-overdose how can they eat that. Which is kinda the point, things aren't all that bad there, most certainly not a humanitarian disaster. And if there was any the only thing that sets it apart is that it are Israeli's doing it. Total silence on where it's much much worse. Not going by the way

  20. #200
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sogdiana
    Posts
    1,720

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    things aren't all that bad there, most certainly not a humanitarian disaster. And if there was any the only thing that sets it apart is that it are Israeli's doing it. Total silence on where it's much much worse. Not going by the way
    Strange because UNRWA is still massively busy there. Must be a holiday camp.

  21. #201
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by alh_p View Post
    Strange because UNRWA is still massively busy there. Must be a holiday camp.
    I can find you plenty that it is

    guess who is he UN there by the way, all money is byebye

  22. #202
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sogdiana
    Posts
    1,720

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    I can find you plenty that it is

    guess who is he UN there by the way, all money is byebye
    Go on, tell me that they are all obese and therefore actually over-indulging.

  23. #203
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by alh_p View Post
    Go on, tell me that they are all obese and therefore actually over-indulging.
    Never said all, but they are the second fattest people in the universe and surroundings yes

  24. #204
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sogdiana
    Posts
    1,720

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Never said all, but they are the second fattest people in the universe and surroundings yes
    http://www.duo.uio.no/sok/work.html?WORKID=18238

    Nutritional status and lifestyle among school adolescents in Gaza strip, 2003, Abudayya, Abdallah Hassan, University of Oslo

    Results: The prevalence of underweight was 4.9%, overweight was 12.8%, obesity was 5.5% and stunting was 9.6%, the latter being higher among boys than girls. The prevalence of anemia was 48.1%. It was higher among girls than boys 51.4% and 44.2% respectively. Higher consumption in starch items was found compared to other important food items such as animal products, mainly meat, and dairy products as well as fruits and vegetables. Food frequency intake seems to be positively related to socio-economic status for all food groups.
    However no relationship was found between the frequency intakes of the different food groups and BMI, except for starchy items that were negatively associated with BMI. Poverty and low level of education in parents was associated with the high prevalence of chronic
    malnutrition (stunting). Adolescents’ lifestyle seemed to be affected by the urbanization as well as the political situation. A high sedentary lifestyle and physical inactivity was observed in this study. A relatively high number of dieting adolescents and skipping meals patterns was also observed. The prevalence of smoking was found to be relatively high in adolescents at this age.

    Conclusion: Stunting, overweight/obesity and anemia are considered public health problems among the adolescents in Gaza and immediate actions to improve the nutritional status of this age group should be taken. Multi-sector coordination between different ministries and community NGOs in order to improve the nutritional status of the adolescents in Palestine should take place. The Nutrition
    Department in the Ministry of Health should take the leading role and initiate this and take the initiative to develop a national plan which aims at improving the nutritional status and maintain well-being of young children and adolescents.
    And for more points:

    www.who.int/countryfocus/cooperation_strategy/ccsbrief_pse_en.pdf

    Demographic and epidemiological transition is occurring. The fertility rate remains high at 4.6 children per woman, while infant and under-five mortality rates are low at 24.2 and 28.5 per 1000 live births respectively. Noncommunicable diseases are the major causes of mortality (heart disease 19.1%, cerebrovascular conditions 8.2%, cancers 9.9%, and a sharp increase in accidents from 9 per 100 000 in 1995 to 32.2 per 100 000 in 2004) together with perinatal conditions (9.7%).a Communicable diseases including pneumonia, respiratory infections, viral hepatitis (A, B and C) and tuberculosis account for 10% of deaths. HIV/AIDS is not yet a significant problem.

    Mental health morbidity is increasing. Levels of psychological trauma and stress are high especially for children and young people. Almost 50% of children report personal experience of conflict-related violence or have witnessed violence. Aggressive behaviour among children and adolescents is increasingly reported. Since 2000 there has been a significant increase in the number of patients seeking treatment at community mental health centres.

    Chronic malnutrition and dietary-related disease are slowly increasing. Iron-deficiency anaemia affects 25% of children under five and 33% of women of child-bearing age; stunting is increasing in children under five; premature and low birth weight are responsible for 25.9% of all reported infant deaths in 2004. Obesity nd chronic diseases related to diet are increasing in older groups. There is a significant health imbalance between West Bank and Gaza Strip. Infant mortality rates are 30% higher in Gaza (30.2 per 1000) than in the West Bank (20 per 1000) and mortality figures in Gaza have increased by 15% compared with pre-intifada figures.
    Yes, a holiday camp.
    Last edited by al Roumi; 02-09-2011 at 16:35.

  25. #205
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    The who huh

    I hope Banqo isn't going to get all to angry with me, but it's really true. Inbreeding causes most of all that
    Last edited by Fragony; 02-09-2011 at 16:45.

  26. #206
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sogdiana
    Posts
    1,720

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    The who huh

    I hope Banqo isn't going to get all to angry with me, but it's really true. Inbreeding causes most of all that
    Really? That's not what those SCIENTISTS and MEDICAL DOCTORS say above. Who should I believe?

    Poverty and low level of education in parents was associated with the high prevalence of chronic malnutrition (stunting). Adolescents’ lifestyle seemed to be affected by the urbanization as well as the political situation. A high sedentary lifestyle and physical inactivity was observed in this study.

  27. #207
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Saint Antoine
    Posts
    9,935

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    The who huh

    I hope Banqo isn't going to get all to angry with me, but it's really true. Inbreeding causes most of all that
    Listen to daddy and start giving sources.

    I don't know if the extremely high obesity levels in Gaza are the result of inbreeding, but many other physical and mental problems are. For example, boys mistaken for girls:

    Until last summer, both Nadir and Ahmed were -- for all intents and purposes -- girls. They wore female headscarves, attended girls' school and even answered to the female first names Navin and Ola.

    Both Nadir and Ahmed were born with a rare birth defect called male pseudohermaphrodism.

    Deficiency of the hormone 17-B-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (17-B-HSD) during pregnancy left their male reproductive organs deformed and buried deep within their abdomens.
    At birth, doctors identified Nadir and Ahmed as girls, because they appeared to have female genitalia.

    As a result, they spent the first 16 years of their lives dressing and acting like girls. It was a role that grew increasingly difficult to play, as they hit puberty and their bodies began generating testosterone, resulting in facial hair and increasingly masculine features.

    "They used to travel by car to girls' school and back," says Nadir's father Mohammed Sadih Ahmed Saleh. "Because of their facial hair, it was difficult for them to go out into the street. Psychologically they were distressed."

    [...]

    There are an unusually high number of male pseudohermaphrodite births in the Gaza neighborhood of Jabalya, where Nadir and Ahmed live.

    Dr. Jehad Abudaia, a Canadian-Palestinian pediatrician and urologist practicing in Gaza, says he has diagnosed nearly 80 cases like Nadir's and Ahmed's in the last seven years."It is astonishing that we have [so] many cases with this defect, which is very rare all over the world," Abudaia says. He attributes the high frequency of this birth defect to "consanguinity," or in-breeding.


    "If you want to go to the root of the problem, this problem runs in families in the genes." Abudaia says. "They want to get married to cousins... they don't go to another family. This is a problem."
    http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/me....id/index.html
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  28. #208
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Saint Antoine
    Posts
    9,935

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Pathological research on suicide bombers revealed that 90% suffered from severe mental or physical defects. Islamic / Afghan society having little patience with deformities, these social outcast wre driven into martyrs.

    Many Islamic societies have high levels of consaguity. This creates unusually high numbers of people with mental or physical disabilities: the very people that are recruited / driven into martyrdom. In this manner, Islamic terrorism is closely linked with Islamic inbreeding.

    Pathologist: Taliban Mostly Recruits Afghans With Disabilities For Suicide Bombings


    KABUL, AFGHANISTAN--National Public Radio's Morning Edition reported Monday that most of the increasing number of Taliban suicide bombers in Afghanistan are believed to have had physical or mental disabilities.

    NPR quoted forensic pathologist Dr. Yusuf Yadgari, who claims that, based on autopsies performed on the remains of recent suicide bombers, nearly 90 percent had a disability or medical condition such as leprosy.

    "They are probably resentful because in Afghan society they are outcasts," Dr.Yadgari said. "They hold a grudge because many of them can't get a job. So, to make money for their families, they agree to become suicide bombers."

    He added that it is often difficult to identify those who have successfully carried out suicide missions for the Taliban because they seldom carry identification, and family members seldom come forward to claim their remains.

    News services have not been able to confirm Yadgari's claims, which were first announced in May of this year. Canada's Globe and Mail reported, however, that his findings were consistent with the number of would-be suicide bombers whose missions have failed, either because they have changed their minds or because they have been stopped by law enforcement or soldiers.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  29. #209
    Member Member Tuuvi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    The wild west
    Posts
    1,418

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    That was kinda sarcasm. I know it will be fun should I go and I know that I will have no problems whatsoever beyond sugar-overdose how can they eat that. Which is kinda the point, things aren't all that bad there, most certainly not a humanitarian disaster. And if there was any the only thing that sets it apart is that it are Israeli's doing it. Total silence on where it's much much worse. Not going by the way
    Oh yea duh I forgot about all that stuff you said earlier.

  30. #210
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sogdiana
    Posts
    1,720

    Default Re: The Palestine Papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Many Islamic societies have high levels of consaguity. This creates unusually high numbers of people with mental or physical disabilities
    So where's the source to say that? Isn't that the biggest whopper in your piece -that Islamic societies are inbred? I'm not denying that many tribal (and other) societies will be but if you're going to use the book emoticon...

    As to the degree of people with disabilities being suicide bombers, that to me speaks as much to the exploitative grooming of bombers. This is at odds with the use of videos etc to carry a message of "commitment to the cause" by Palestinian and others, to indicate "martyrdom" by a healthy individual, fully conscious of their decisions.

Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 345678 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO