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Thread: Moscow airport bombing
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70N2TQ20110124
The despicable acts people commit to achieve political goals (mixed with religious goals it seems) boggle the mind.
Since I don't know much about the region, was this Caucasus region that is apparently involved ever it's own state or did these people just decide that they want one?
Not that anything would excuse such acts of terrorism.
Originally Posted by :
(Reuters) - A suicide bomber killed at least 35 people at Russia's biggest airport on Monday in an attack that bore the hallmarks of militants fighting for an Islamist state in the north Caucasus region.
My condolences to those who got hurt, either directly or by losing someone they loved or knew.(Reuters) - A suicide bomber killed at least 35 people at Russia's biggest airport on Monday in an attack that bore the hallmarks of militants fighting for an Islamist state in the north Caucasus region.
The despicable acts people commit to achieve political goals (mixed with religious goals it seems) boggle the mind.
Since I don't know much about the region, was this Caucasus region that is apparently involved ever it's own state or did these people just decide that they want one?
Not that anything would excuse such acts of terrorism.
I would say yes to that Lemur.
Doubt it, would have to outdo that
edit, there have been many skinhead attacks on foreign students in Moscow, bet it's that
edit, there have been many skinhead attacks on foreign students in Moscow, bet it's that
"Militants fighting for an Islamist state in North Caucasus"
Gotta love bias/ignorance.
Gotta love bias/ignorance.
Originally Posted by Fragony:
Doubt it, would have to outdo that
edit, there have been many skinhead attacks on foreign students in Moscow, bet it's that
I doubt it Frag as thick as the average Skinhead might be I never heard any engaging in suicide bombings in airports.Doubt it, would have to outdo that
edit, there have been many skinhead attacks on foreign students in Moscow, bet it's that
Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy:
I doubt it Frag as thick as the average Skinhead might be I never heard any engaging in suicide bombings in airports.
I mean it was probably a foreign student, skinheads are a real problem there, nothing has been claimed so far no? In Beslan they killed children, this is kinda tame when comparedI doubt it Frag as thick as the average Skinhead might be I never heard any engaging in suicide bombings in airports.
Originally Posted by Fragony:
I mean it was probably a foreign student, skinheads are a real problem there, nothing has been claimed so far no? In Beslan they killed children, this is kinda tame when compared
tame???? 35 people dead and 130 injured in an airport suicide bombing.I mean it was probably a foreign student, skinheads are a real problem there, nothing has been claimed so far no? In Beslan they killed children, this is kinda tame when compared
I would hate to see your definition of horrendous if thats tame.
Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy:
tame???? 35 people dead and 130 injured in an airport suicide bombing.
I would hate to see your definition of horrendous if thats tame.
Does it shock you as much as Beslan? We will just have to get used to these kind of things, tame???? 35 people dead and 130 injured in an airport suicide bombing.
I would hate to see your definition of horrendous if thats tame.
happens. On the bright side this is the islam being hauled into the 21th century, going to sting a bitOriginally Posted by Fragony:
On the bright side this is the islam being hauled into the 21th century, going to sting a bit
It's not, it's the Wahhabi's trying to return to the 7th century. They take it so seriously they even banned ice because it wasn't available during Mohammed's lifetime. This isn't a backlash against the modernisation/liberalisation of Islam, the dominant force is all in the backwards direction. These people are simply crazy, that article I linked notes how they also banned women from buying cucumbers, think tomatoes are female (?), and demand goats cover their genitals. On the bright side this is the islam being hauled into the 21th century, going to sting a bit
I think teh Islam is undergoing a bit of a Protestant reformation... suddenly everyone can read and are more aware of Islam as a global force outside their own little region where it was always mixed with superstitious local beliefs. They were silly, but at least they were harmless. But now it's all about returning to the purity of worhsip seen in Mohammad's time. Kind of like Protestants with their return to New Testament practices and Sola Scriptura etc. Remember, the Reformation gave you the firebrand Puritans and the crazy Anabaptists before more liberal views emerged, the same seems to be happening with teh Islam.
Its still going to sting though. Assuming it goes well.
Originally Posted by Fragony:
Does it shock you as much as Beslan? We will just have to get used to these kind of things, happens. On the bright side this is the islam being hauled into the 21th century, going to sting a bit
The point is that this attack too was horriffic. The fact that we have, collectively, become more inured to the horror of this class of events is NOT a happy thing, Frags.Does it shock you as much as Beslan? We will just have to get used to these kind of things,
happens. On the bright side this is the islam being hauled into the 21th century, going to sting a bitOriginally Posted by Husar:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70N2TQ20110124
My condolences to those who got hurt, either directly or by losing someone they loved or knew.
The despicable acts people commit to achieve political goals (mixed with religious goals it seems) boggle the mind.
Since I don't know much about the region, was this Caucasus region that is apparently involved ever it's own state or did these people just decide that they want one?
Not that anything would excuse such acts of terrorism.
While any terrorism is terrible, I could at least see where they're coming from considering what the Russians are doing to Chechnyans. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70N2TQ20110124
My condolences to those who got hurt, either directly or by losing someone they loved or knew.
The despicable acts people commit to achieve political goals (mixed with religious goals it seems) boggle the mind.
Since I don't know much about the region, was this Caucasus region that is apparently involved ever it's own state or did these people just decide that they want one?
Not that anything would excuse such acts of terrorism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzan_Kadyrov
Originally Posted by Noncommunist:
While any terrorism is terrible, I could at least see where they're coming from considering what the Russians are doing to Chechnyans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzan_Kadyrov
Indeed.While any terrorism is terrible, I could at least see where they're coming from considering what the Russians are doing to Chechnyans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzan_Kadyrov
Like Anna Politkovskaja said, we wouldn't see this if it wasn't for Putins utter incompetence.
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh:
The point is that this attack too was horriffic. The fact that we have, collectively, become more inured to the horror of this class of events is NOT a happy thing, Frags.
Kinda undermines it's very purpose noThe point is that this attack too was horriffic. The fact that we have, collectively, become more inured to the horror of this class of events is NOT a happy thing, Frags.
'There was an explosion at ********'
gas leak?
'No, terrorist attack'
Ah, k
Akhbar that beards
edit looks like GC was right
Originally Posted by Noncommunist:
While any terrorism is terrible, I could at least see where they're coming from considering what the Russians are doing to Chechnyans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzan_Kadyrov
Funny how Americans were offended when people said the same thing about WTC bombing...While any terrorism is terrible, I could at least see where they're coming from considering what the Russians are doing to Chechnyans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzan_Kadyrov
Originally Posted by Noncommunist:
While any terrorism is terrible, I could at least see where they're coming from considering what the Russians are doing to Chechnyans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzan_Kadyrov
You mean it makes sense to bomb an international airport because a Chechnyan is treating Chechnyans badly?While any terrorism is terrible, I could at least see where they're coming from considering what the Russians are doing to Chechnyans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzan_Kadyrov
If I throw your baby off a bridge because my father beat me, can you see where I'm coming from, too?
Originally Posted by Husar:
You mean it makes sense to bomb an international airport because a Chechnyan is treating Chechnyans badly?
If I throw your baby off a bridge because my father beat me, can you see where I'm coming from, too?
Would you say that a Norwegian was treating Norwegians badly from 1940-45?You mean it makes sense to bomb an international airport because a Chechnyan is treating Chechnyans badly?
If I throw your baby off a bridge because my father beat me, can you see where I'm coming from, too?
The only difference between Kadyrov and Quisling is that Kadyrov is way more brutal in his methods. Come to think of it, he's more like Rinnan, the Gestapo chief. Also a Norwegian, btw.
Originally Posted by Sarmatian:
Funny how Americans were offended when people said the same thing about WTC bombing...
While the US certainly have their black marks, they're not even close to the atrocities committed by Russian forces in Chechnya.Funny how Americans were offended when people said the same thing about WTC bombing...
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
While the US certainly have their black marks, they're not even close to the atrocities committed by Russian forces in Chechnya.
Tell it to the kids in Iraq who had half of their face blown away because of an illegitimate war for control of oil based on an outright lie.While the US certainly have their black marks, they're not even close to the atrocities committed by Russian forces in Chechnya.
Originally Posted by Sarmatian:
Tell it to the kids in Iraq who had half of their face blown away because of an illegitimate war for control of oil based on an outright lie.
Well, Iraq did happen post-9/11...Tell it to the kids in Iraq who had half of their face blown away because of an illegitimate war for control of oil based on an outright lie.
But still, that kid in Iraq was a consequence of an action, not the specific target for the action. The kid in Chechnya, however, is the specific target.
Originally Posted by Sarmatian:
Tell it to the kids in Iraq who had half of their face blown away because of an illegitimate war for control of oil based on an outright lie.
Oh, oh the irony!Tell it to the kids in Iraq who had half of their face blown away because of an illegitimate war for control of oil based on an outright lie.
If you're going to compare anything to the U.S. compare how you think the Russian reaction will differ from the U.S. reaction or why such incidents don't happen at U.S. airports. Maybe something about the security situation in Russia. I'm just sayin.
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
Would you say that a Norwegian was treating Norwegians badly from 1940-45?
The only difference between Kadyrov and Quisling is that Kadyrov is way more brutal in his methods. Come to think of it, he's more like Rinnan, the Gestapo chief. Also a Norwegian, btw.
No, I would say they can bomb Kadyrov or Putin and their cronies instead of an international airport. You know, one could then at least find some reasons to argue for their cause.Would you say that a Norwegian was treating Norwegians badly from 1940-45?
The only difference between Kadyrov and Quisling is that Kadyrov is way more brutal in his methods. Come to think of it, he's more like Rinnan, the Gestapo chief. Also a Norwegian, btw.
Originally Posted by Husar:
No, I would say they can bomb Kadyrov or Putin and their cronies instead of an international airport. You know, one could then at least find some reasons to argue for their cause.
Airports are easy. The cowards prefer soft targets because of that. Besides, do you want to directly incite the wrath of Puttie-poot?No, I would say they can bomb Kadyrov or Putin and their cronies instead of an international airport. You know, one could then at least find some reasons to argue for their cause.
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
Well, Iraq did happen post-9/11...
What do you mean by this?Well, Iraq did happen post-9/11...
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
But still, that kid in Iraq was a consequence of an action, not the specific target for the action. The kid in Chechnya, however, is the specific target.
So, when you invade a country, killing kids is collateral damage, and when you're fighting insurgents in your own country, kids are not collateral damage but specific targets. Is this the principle or do you think that Russians are homicidal maniacs who thrive on killing children.But still, that kid in Iraq was a consequence of an action, not the specific target for the action. The kid in Chechnya, however, is the specific target.
I don't really see a difference between a Chechnyan kid and an Iraqi kid, but that's just me.
Originally Posted by Vladimir:
Oh, oh the irony!
If you're going to compare anything to the U.S. compare how you think the Russian reaction will differ from the U.S. reaction
Yeah, it will be interesting to see if Russia now invades Tajikistan.Oh, oh the irony!
If you're going to compare anything to the U.S. compare how you think the Russian reaction will differ from the U.S. reaction
Originally Posted by Vladimir:
or why such incidents don't happen at U.S. airports. Maybe something about the security situation in Russia. I'm just sayin.
I don't know what's the security situation at Russian airports, I assume it's than in America but I don't see how that excuses terrorism.or why such incidents don't happen at U.S. airports. Maybe something about the security situation in Russia. I'm just sayin.
Originally Posted by Sarmatian:
So, when you invade a country, killing kids is collateral damage, and when you're fighting insurgents in your own country, kids are not collateral damage but specific targets. Is this the principle or do you think that Russians are homicidal maniacs who thrive on killing children.
I believe that Horetore is suggesting that the Russians have specifically targeted civilians in a "frightfulness" campaign. I do not know if there is evidence to support this claim. Horetore is hardly an apologist for the U.S. military.So, when you invade a country, killing kids is collateral damage, and when you're fighting insurgents in your own country, kids are not collateral damage but specific targets. Is this the principle or do you think that Russians are homicidal maniacs who thrive on killing children.
Morally, I think most would agree that specifically targeting civilians for violence is less morally correct then is the harming of civilians by happenstance while targeting an opponent. This is not to say that such "collateral damage" is in any way a good thing -- I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone quite that cavalier.
Please note, however, that this moral distinction probably matters very little to the innocent civilian who has just been harmed. They have been wronged, regardless of the agent of that wrong.
Seamus is right on the money.
The civillian population in Chechnya is the specific target of the drunk soldiers of the Russian Army/interior forces/FSB. While I certainly do not agree with the way the war in Iraq and Afghanistan has been/is carried out, to compare those two with Chechnya is wrong. The US' targets are people defined as enemies. The Russian targets are both actual rebels and people they know are just civillians. As well as practicing the mobster way of killing/torturing family members of rebels they've killed, even though those peple had done nothing wrong.
Another point is of course that a lot of arussia's victims don't die from gunshots, but from torture. The FSB kidnaps and toures people at will. I loathe Gitmo. But at least they are still alive, and even released. A Chechen torture victim has little chance of that of ever seeing sunlight again.
A Chechen woman refused the sexual advances of a drunk arussian general? No worries, just call the army rent-a-mob, kidnap her, rape her and then kill her. And then start terrorizing her remaining family to keep their mouths shut.
Need evidence? 10 minutes of reading one of Russia last independent newspapers, Novaja Gazeta, should give you plenty. If their journalists are still alive by the time I've finished writing this, of course....
The civillian population in Chechnya is the specific target of the drunk soldiers of the Russian Army/interior forces/FSB. While I certainly do not agree with the way the war in Iraq and Afghanistan has been/is carried out, to compare those two with Chechnya is wrong. The US' targets are people defined as enemies. The Russian targets are both actual rebels and people they know are just civillians. As well as practicing the mobster way of killing/torturing family members of rebels they've killed, even though those peple had done nothing wrong.
Another point is of course that a lot of arussia's victims don't die from gunshots, but from torture. The FSB kidnaps and toures people at will. I loathe Gitmo. But at least they are still alive, and even released. A Chechen torture victim has little chance of that of ever seeing sunlight again.
A Chechen woman refused the sexual advances of a drunk arussian general? No worries, just call the army rent-a-mob, kidnap her, rape her and then kill her. And then start terrorizing her remaining family to keep their mouths shut.
Need evidence? 10 minutes of reading one of Russia last independent newspapers, Novaja Gazeta, should give you plenty. If their journalists are still alive by the time I've finished writing this, of course....
Originally Posted by Husar:
No, I would say they can bomb Kadyrov or Putin and their cronies instead of an international airport. You know, one could then at least find some reasons to argue for their cause.
Softer targets.No, I would say they can bomb Kadyrov or Putin and their cronies instead of an international airport. You know, one could then at least find some reasons to argue for their cause.
They don't have the force necessary to carry out assasinations of high-profile people. Your statement is like saying that England should've whacked Hitler in 42 instead of getting millions of people killed! Yes, they would've done that.... If they had been able to.
Do I support the killing of innocent people? Of course not. The blame is first and foremost with the killers.
But that does not in any way absolve Putins incompetent rule of blame.
Originally Posted by :
Your statement is like saying that England should've whacked Hitler in 42 instead of getting millions of people killed! Yes, they would've done that.... If they had been able to.
Uh technically we wouldn't, truthfully hitler was an idiot when it came to millitary decisions the only reason we didn't keep trying untill it succeeded was becuase he was causing more problems for his side than his death would cause.Your statement is like saying that England should've whacked Hitler in 42 instead of getting millions of people killed! Yes, they would've done that.... If they had been able to.
Originally Posted by Greyblades:
Uh technically we wouldn't, truthfully hitler was an idiot when it came to millitary decisions the only reason we didn't keep trying untill it succeeded was becuase he was causing more problems for his side than his death would cause.
I think you got my point nonetheless.Uh technically we wouldn't, truthfully hitler was an idiot when it came to millitary decisions the only reason we didn't keep trying untill it succeeded was becuase he was causing more problems for his side than his death would cause.
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