Idea

[Prince Cobra]

I've always wondered if we can dedicate the Org. to a certain epoch, not to a single sequel (like Total War). My personal preference is for the Middle Ages and medieval strategies (though I do not have not played a big variety of games) but it is up to the majority of the Orgahs to decide the fate of this proposal. This can be decided by the type of games you play, the knowledge on a certain epoch and etc.

Note: This proposal affects only the PC games and not the forum games.

Edited: Gameroom, Frontroom, Backroom and etc. stay as a subforums, of course!

[Peasant Phill]

You mean leaving total war as a base for this forum. In other words going from a game forum to a history forum with some affiliations with certain war games.

I can't say I support rejecting a large part of the current community (judging by the activity in the monastery a very large part) to embrace 1 small theme where we're not even known for over the internet.

We're in a downward spiral as it is, putting all our hopes on the quality of TW:S2 bringing a big number of new members. Totally changing our base/theme practically equals starting a new website with all the insecurities and risks that go with that.

[Prince Cobra]

You mean leaving total war as a base for this forum. In other words going from a game forum to a history forum with some affiliations with certain war games.

I can't say I support rejecting a large part of the current community (judging by the activity in the monastery a very large part) to embrace 1 small theme where we're not even known for over the internet.

We're in a downward spiral as it is, putting all our hopes on the quality of TW:S2 bringing a big number of new members. Totally changing our base/theme practically equals starting a new website with all the insecurities and risks that go with that.

We could be a game forum with emphasis on games on certain historical epoch (or a small number of good games from a certain gaming genre say strategic historical games), which is a bit different from a historical forum. I think off-topic themes could still be everything present, past and future. But the games, the core of the forum would be different, IMHO. And there we always have the Arena to give us diversity.

I don't think rapid change would be productive. It'll be rather a slow process of departing from Totalwar in case TWS 2 turns out to be a failure (which is something I do not really want). That's my opinion of course but I do not think it's good to put everything in one basket.

Here is an idea for a harmless experiement. For example, we could collect votes which game (not TW) is most popular amongst the members of the Org. at this moment and to create a sub forum for it. I think adding more than one game could be dangerous because we may lose focus. That is my idea more or less.

[Tuuvi]

I like the idea and I think it would help make this place more interesting and maybe bring in more members but I worry about the name. If the .org were to take this path, would the name of the site have to be changed, and would this be harmful to the site?

EDIT: Maybe the .org could expand its focus to include other games, but keep an emphasis on TW games?

[pevergreen]

We need to expand to other games, but pinholing ourselves on a certain era is not the way to bring more people in.

[Beskar]

I think we could do something else for now, and that is to shrink the Total war sections.

Strangely, 90% of the forum covers Total War, but Gameroom, Frontroom and Backroom have the highest amount of posts and are very sidelined.

Might be an idea to condense the titles into one category, then have the first link go straight to that game, then that link has sub-sections for multiplayer, modding, etc, amongst others.

So basically, the forum would look more like this (or make it for each game seperate):


You then restructure the forum and even get rid or merge some of the more useless sections. For example, I think the entrance hall should be next to the Frontroom, it is on the otherside of the forum, so people who actively post on the forum don't even go near it as it on the other side.

Get rid of the 'Console' section as it is not Total war and it is Deadwood. Just clutters up the forum.

Merge Apothecary with Hardware and Software, making a new section, perhaps with a subforum named "Help!".

Merge Throneroom, Chapter House and Gameroom into a bigger Gameroom complex with Subforums for specific types.

Merge all the guides under one heading. No need to clutter up the main view of the forum with all different sections, or have the Guides as subforums in each of the particular areas.

Make a new Category Which will have the Entrance Hall, Frontroom, Backroom, Gameroom, Watchtower and Monastery, Meadhall and Arena in.


Another suggestion since other people want to cover other games is to expand the Arena into a category, then have it cover various genres, with perhaps subforums for really popular games. Or something that needs more planning.

[pevergreen]

Yes and no.

I agree with the premise of moving the TW under one section, then being able to drill down further. I dont agree with the mockup of having the MTW and M2TW (stw and s2tw as well) under the same link.

Mega gameroom: no

Guides: yes

new category for bunch: i dont think so, not really

apothocary and H&SW, yeah.

[Beskar]

I agree with the premise of moving the TW under one section, then being able to drill down further. I dont agree with the mockup of having the MTW and M2TW (stw and s2tw as well) under the same link.

Can easily keep that separate. I mainly did it because they were not the most active sections.

Mega gameroom: no

Why do you dislike this idea? Having the forum style games in the Gameroom, perhaps in a subforum would keep the player base concentrated. It is silly in a way having different gameroom-style things spread across the forum, as it requires members to check multiple sections opposed to just one, which limits the amount of players participating.

new category for bunch: i dont think so, not really

That was a suggestion for people wanting different games covered on the forum. (the new 'arena' part)

However, I think rearranging a few of the forums such as entrance hall, and making Frontroom, Gameroom and Backroom more dominant would be a good step forward. Many people just have "Tavern" as their link address as they don't even have an interest in the other sections of the forum, and those three sections are the most active on the forum. It is silly in a way they are so sidelined, especially as new members want to see the activity to join in. Activity breeds activity.

[pevergreen]

Why do you dislike this idea? Having the forum style games in the Gameroom, perhaps in a subforum would keep the player base concentrated. It is silly in a way having different gameroom-style things spread across the forum, as it requires members to check multiple sections opposed to just one, which limits the amount of players participating.

I played in KOTR and LOTR, both very briefly. How many other gameroom players have? Most mafia players do not play TW, so that rules out basically everything in the throne room.

The IH games I have no interest in and never will. They are different types of things.

That was a suggestion for people wanting different games covered on the forum. (the new 'arena' part)

However, I think rearranging a few of the forums such as entrance hall, and making Frontroom, Gameroom and Backroom more dominant would be a good step forward. Many people just have "Tavern" as their link address as they don't even have an interest in the other sections of the forum, and those three sections are the most active on the forum. It is silly in a way they are so sidelined, especially as new members want to see the activity to join in. Activity breeds activity.

I meant the second part of your post. Some rearranging, yes, the example you gave, no.

[Beskar]

I played in KOTR and LOTR, both very briefly. How many other gameroom players have? Most mafia players do not play TW, so that rules out basically everything in the throne room.

The IH games I have no interest in and never will. They are different types of things.

The Gameroom is a Gameroom, it isn't just mafia.

IH games interest me, but I don't see that forum regularly enough since it is on the otherhand of the forum basically. People from the Gameroom might want to participant in IH and vice-versus, or even in Throne-room games (I see suggestions for them before).

So having them as subsections of the gameroom would generate far more interest for IH, Mafia, Throneroom, etc. Everyone benefits.

[pevergreen]

The Gameroom is a Gameroom, it isn't just mafia.

'The Gameroom' is mafia. It has some other games in it, but they are infrequent. It was created for mafia, and it has hosted mafia.

[Prince Cobra]

Just a note: well, if you think the era suggestion as unacceptable then it's OK. A certain type of games are just fine then, I think.

However, it might be better to debate only one game for now. IMHO, this would be a long process and adding an extra single non-TW game (for now) as an experiment would be the first step.

And yes, I am the Org. needs some subforum merging. Like STW and MTW in a single section; RTW, MTW2 and Napoleon in another one (with different subforums each). That's just an example. I have not been a regular visitor there and don't know what exactly is going on there.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I agree that the page with all the forums really has to be condensed. How will new people find the Tavern where much of the activity is? They'll just glance at the date of posts in the TW section and think this is a dead site.

[pevergreen]

I agree that the page with all the forums really has to be condensed. How will new people find the Tavern where much of the activity is? They'll just glance at the date of posts in the TW section and think this is a dead site.

True, it could probably use a good condensing. At the very least, all the guides under a 'guides' subforum.

[TosaInu]

The forum listing is indeed a long one, placing some of the older titles in one category might help. I guess placing only the recent and upcoming one on the very front will do. Clicking and browsing through a forumtree isn't everything, scrolling a huge list isn't either.

[TosaInu]

I condensed a few forums: put all guides together and moved both STW and MTW to the totalwar category. Maybe we can move other TW forums too, but we'll see.

[edyzmedieval]

Tosa, I wish we could keep MTW and STW the old way because they are an integral part of the Org and having them as extended forums would benefit us more in my opinion.

[drone]

Tosa, I wish we could keep MTW and STW the old way because they are an integral part of the Org and having them as extended forums would benefit us more in my opinion.

I'm not sure they need the separate sections they had before, they just don't get the traffic the newer games get. But I wouldn't mind the removal of the sub-forum MTW/Single Player/AAR, which is just a link to the Mead Hall anyway, and a move up of the Main Hall so it can be accessed from the main Guild page.

(yes, I'm lazy... )

[Beskar]

Indeed, they are not in dire need of the separate sections as R:TW, M2:TW and E:TW/N:TW (together) are the popular ones, except for Shogun when that comes out.

I think Tosa condensed them very well. Far more moderate condensing than me though, I would have gone further and just deleted the 'console' section (no one posts there at all except spambots), and I would have moved Gameroom, Frontroom and Backroom as main forum sections opposed to subsections (as those three are the most popular three)

[TinCow]

I would have moved Gameroom, Frontroom and Backroom as main forum sections opposed to subsections (as those three are the most popular three)

Yes, this is long overdue.

[Husar]

You could always bookmark them directly, of course this is coming from someone who has a bazillion bookmarks.

[pevergreen]

I'd condense the console games to the same area as the rest of the older TW games, under a subforum "console games"

[Axalon]

Well, this “new sectioning” strikes me as both awful and wrong....

I will remind everybody here that this place is called “Totalwar.Org” – not “Mafia.Org”, not “Tavern.Org” or “Whatever.Org”. It is “Totalwar.Org”…. The place is supposed to deal primarily with TW-games and things connected to that. For instance, I finally became a member here because it dealt with Total War games – and in my case especially for the sake of STW1 and MTW1 and work with MTW1 – which this place was once renowned for…

I have always regarded it as a major strength of this place - up til now – that the Org-administration has so far always treated all TW-games as equals and with dignity – as one should - not bunching up stuff together as (virtually) all other TW-sites do, which is wrong (for several reasons). Jumping on that bandwagon is as big and fat mistake as it gets. I can not say how much I detest that some games (read STW1 and MTW1 folks) are systematically ignored and discriminated against at other TW-sites – usually with some lame excuse that they supposedly “see too little traffic to bother with” and thus such conduct is somehow justified. Are things really so bad that this supposedly must happen here as well?

It is sheer and utter nonsense and has more to do with such site-administrations are too lazy (or usually don’t play or own those particular games themselves) to live up to their self-proclaimed responsibilities - as they should have from day 1. Posts do not generate themselves and that is also true for the STW1 and MTW1-sections as well. For those of us who are not completely clueless here, knows that STW1 and MTW1-sections does see traffic, and does generate new members even today. That alone warrants that these games should retain their previous layout and place - not to mention that both are still undoubtedly individual TW-games in their own right, which yet again firmly warrants such a layout as they previously had…


By all means Tosa, wet-nurse all the fleeting people “who can’t be bothered” to even scroll down to their sections of interest if you wish. If it is not TW-related – I, and probably others with me, don’t care much about were that stuff are located - at the top or the bottom does not matter. Personally I don’t mind some scrolling, but I do mind this current sectioning however (especially in regards to STW1 and MTW1, both clearly deserves their individual sections just as any other TW-game). Thus I propose and urge you the following "sectioning/layout" instead (or some equivalent).



Entrance-Area
Entrance Hall
TW-Guides______________Sub-sections: STW1/MTW1/RTW/MTW2/ETW/STW2.
TW Tech-Help___________Sub-sections: STW1/MTW1/RTW/MTW2/ETW/STW2. - This way, tech-help won’t litter the regular sections (as much).
-------
Community-Area
Tavern?_________________Sub-sections: Gameroom, Backroom and the whatever-have-you rooms…
Mead Hall?
Throne Room?
Whatever X
-------
STW2- section (+ expansions)
Single player
Multi-player
Mod-stuff/guides
Hosted Mods
-------
ETW –section (+ expansions, including NTW)
Single player
Multi-player
Mod-stuff/guides
Hosted Mods
-------
MTW2 - section (+ expansions)
Single player
Multi-player
Mod-stuff/guides
Hosted Mods
-------
RTW – section (+ expansions)
Single player
Multi-player
Mod-stuff/guides
Hosted Mods
-------
MTW1 – section (+ expansions)
Single player
Multi-player
Mod-stuff/guides
Hosted Mods
-------
STW1 – section (+ expansions)
Single player
Multi-player
Mod-stuff/guides
Hosted Mods
-------
Non-TW Games – section
Whatever X
Whatever X
Whatever X
Consol games____________Total Warrior etc. etc. if you must… These are not TW-games and everybody knows it…
-------
Administration section & Misc
Watch Tower
Hardware and software?
Whatever X
Whatever X
-------


Such a layout makes sense, it is also still true to what this place was supposed to be all about - Total war games, ALL individual TW-games on equal terms – and it has “just” 8 sections (9 with a non-TW-games section included) – and, still all the fleeting “non-scrolling” people who supposedly can not be bothered do get their pampering as well. Furthermore - all TW-games, gamers & modders do get proper and deserved justice in a place called “TotalWar.Org”. Everybody are happy…

- Cheers

[pevergreen]

Looks good, the people that want to ignore the TW stuff don't have to scroll past it, so it doesnt need to be condensed.

[Tuuvi]

I like your idea for the forum layout Axalon.

[Togakure]

...
-------
[i]Community-Area
Tavern?_________________Sub-sections: Gameroom, Backroom and the whatever-have-you rooms…
Mead Hall?
Throne Room?
Whatever X[/COLOR]
-------
STW2- section (+ expansions)
Single player
Multi-player
Mod-stuff/guides
Hosted Mods
-------
ETW –section (+ expansions, including NTW)
Single player
Multi-player
Mod-stuff/guides
Hosted Mods
-------
MTW2 - section (+ expansions)
Single player
Multi-player
Mod-stuff/guides
Hosted Mods
-------
RTW – section (+ expansions)
Single player
Multi-player
Mod-stuff/guides
Hosted Mods
-------
MTW1 – section (+ expansions)
Single player
Multi-player
Mod-stuff/guides
Hosted Mods
-------
STW1 – section (+ expansions)
Single player
Multi-player
Mod-stuff/guides
Hosted Mods
-------
Non-TW Games – section
Whatever X
Whatever X
Whatever X
Consol games____________Total Warrior etc. etc. if you must… These are not TW-games and everybody knows it…
-------
Administration section & Misc
Watch Tower
Hardware and software?
Whatever X
Whatever X
-------
...

Kudos that you have taken the initiative to detail your suggestions and offer a specific proposal. In business, when one goes to the boss with ideas, this method goes a lot farther than off-the-top of one's head comments, and provides a starting point which can be refined further.

I like the organization above as well. I would include the Watchtower in the Community section up top, because it is where pros/cons and proposals about the board/community are discussed. Hence it should be prominent, not tucked away at the bottom. My two koku.

[drone]

I do like the idea of the Guides and the Apothecary at the top. These are probably what most of the new non-members are looking for anyway.

[Beskar]

I will remind everybody here that this place is called “Totalwar.Org” – not “Mafia.Org”, not “Tavern.Org” or “Whatever.Org”.

Such a layout makes sense, it is also still true to what this place was supposed to be all about - Total war games, ALL individual TW-games on equal terms – and it has “just” 8 sections (9 with a non-TW-games section included) – and, still all the fleeting “non-scrolling” people who supposedly can not be bothered do get their pampering as well. Furthermore - all TW-games, gamers & modders do get proper and deserved justice in a place called “TotalWar.Org”. Everybody are happy…

But having sections in remote locations which are actually active is very bad web design. When you are in a shop, you advertise the things people like, and you backstage those you don't particularly want on full display as they are not needed. If no one wants to pay attention to certain sections which receive no traffic at all, then what is the point of having it in stock?

The lifeblood of the community is in fact the community. For a successful site, you need to deal with the community.

Paradox does it really well by having the community sections receive as much attention or more than the pure game sections. Also, they have the benefit of catering for lots of games, so there is far more game orientation too.

The layout should reflect this more, rather than have some of the most active sections lost in dark corners and others containing an isolated clique as no one can find it or knows of its existence. I propose a far more simpler one, which will give a big impression that the site is actually far more active and will in turn, bring in far more activity.


Total War
- Shogun 2
- - Single Player
- - - [Guides]
- - Multiplayer
- - Mods
- - - [Hosted Mods]
- Empire and Napoleon
- - Single Player
- - - [Guides]
- - Multiplayer
- - Mods
- - - [Hosted Mods]
- Medieval 2
- - Single Player
- - - [Guides]
- - Multiplayer
- - Mods
- - - [Hosted Mods]
- Rome
- - Single Player
- - - [Guides]
- - Multiplayer
- - Mods
- - - [Hosted Mods]
- Medieval
- - Single Player
- - - [Guides]
- - Multiplayer
- - Mods
- - - [Hosted Mods]
- Shogun
- - Single Player
- - - [Guides]
- - Multiplayer
- - Mods
- - - [Hosted Mods]

Community
- Entrance Hall
- Front Room
-- General
-- Arena
-- Mead hall
- Back Room
-- Discussion
-- Monastery
- Game Room (Has full forum for itself like now)
-- Game Assembly Headquarters (for mafia, chapter house and others)
-- Throne Room
-- Chapter House
- Apothecary
-- Hardware / Software
-- Tech Support
- Watchtower
-- Announcements
-- Wine Cellar (Backroom WT)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Key:
Category
Forum
Subsection
[Subsection of Subsection]

Not only this deals with "Basically the same thing, but different name" of some of the sections, but it always allows sections to be associated more with the areas which are close and similar to it. Gameroom players, Throne Room and Chapter House could intermingle far more significantly, increasing the player threshold.

The Entrance Hall is located right next to the Frontroom, which allows new people to easily slip into mainstream forum.

The total war specific sections are at the top, which allows people who want to just jump into them, to just jump into them. Also, the way it is structured now takes up significantly far less real-estate for the web surfer.

If a forum was basically just "Total War.org", why don't we just delete all the sections bar the total war ones? I can pretty much guarantee a significant drop of the current forum population. A forum is more than a subject, it is a community, and losing this focus just destroys the essence of the forum and takes away from the Org, all that is great.