Europe and the Rest of the World - A Military Analysis

[Strike For The South]

for an example arabian culture is not good at modern western style warfare. a war doctrine which is undoubtedly best. the point that individuals can be better designed for war than others has a hell of a lot of relevance.

Meh, The Isrealis come from the same culture and they do ok, Turkey isn't a slouch. Those countries problems run so much deeper than instituting a doctirne though. The examples are bad

This whole thing reads like an 1890s pamphlet on the virtues of the white man

you know what else is flat out wrong using the term jap. dont its insulting and i do not want to hear it.

Clearly you just aren't tough enough to be a citizen solider. Quit ROTC

And If I wanted to be insulting I wouldn't have captilized the J, For the sake of expidence nothing more.

[Centurion1]

i have lived i a military lifestyle for my entire life dont tell me what i can and cannot do. dont use that term its known to be demeaning and insulting and demonstrates your inability to understand you cannot state that i am a pro white power belief holder and use an antiquated term like that.

furthermore your lack of knowledge is shocking. Israelis are most certainly not arabian. If anything you can stretch and say they are aramaic but really most are east and western european really. And turks arent arabians either good god.

yeah i could walk around dropping terms like hajii or other disrespectful terms referring to middle eastern culture but i dont.

[Greyblades]

you know what else is flat out wrong using the term jap. dont its insulting and i do not want to hear it.

This coming from the guy saying people are inferior/superior due to race/nationality...

[Centurion1]

culture is entirely separate from race and nationality. you want proof just google the concept.

[Strike For The South]

i have lived i a military lifestyle for my entire life dont tell me what i can and cannot do. dont use that term its known to be demeaning and insulting and demonstrates your inability to understand you cannot state that i am a pro white power belief holder and use an antiquated term like that.

This is rich, you just spent an entire thread demeaning peoples based on some unsubstantiated, and antiquated method of quantifying military might and then you get all but hurt when I use a term which can be misconstrued (as it was here)

Once again you are clearly not an American Spartan citizen. AN AMERICAN SHOWS NO FEAR HE ONLY PULLS THE TRIGGER

furthermore your lack of knowledge is shocking. Israelis are most certainly not arabian. If anything you can stretch and say they are aramaic but really most are east and western european really. And turks arent arabians either good god.

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictiona...Semitic+people

The Turks are majoirly msulim (duh). I think the fact these two states are secular and relativly democratic means so much more than this "culture" that is being refered to

yeah i could walk around dropping terms like hajii or other disrespectful terms referring to middle eastern culture but i dont.

You just did....

[Greyblades]

culture is entirely separate from race and nationality. you want proof just google the concept.

Ok then:
This coming from the guy saying people are inferior/superior due to culture...

[Centurion1]

at certain things...... why dont you actually do some research unless your an expert on arabian adaptation of modern warfare.

[Strike For The South]

Culture is the new race, it's nothing more than a thin veil so people won't be ostracized for their antiqauted beliefs

at certain things...... why dont you actually do some research unless your an expert on arabian adaptation of modern warfare

I don't need to when you make it this easy....I mean my God, people still think this way?

[Centurion1]

http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/AD...ne_arabs1.html

i mean my god people still dont know how to look at things before they disagree!

[Strike For The South]

Including culture in strategic assessments has a poor legacy, for it has often been spun from an ugly brew of ignorance, wishful thinking, and mythology. Thus, the U.S. Army in the 1930s evaluated the Japanese national character as lacking originality and drew the unwarranted conclusion that that country would be permanently disadvantaged in technology. Hitler dismissed the United States as a mongrel society and consequently underestimated the impact of America’s entry into the war. American strategists assumed that the pain threshold of the North Vietnamese approximated our own and that the air bombardment of the North would bring it to its knees. Three days of aerial attacks were thought to be all the Serbs could withstand; in fact, seventy-eight days were needed.

But this time we're right! I swear!

And then the 3 headings can be attributed to every other third world nation

/facepalm

[Subotan]

Britain and Ireland are both island nations we have a fundamentally different way of viewing the world because every direction is "out there" never "over the border".

So we are not the same as mainland Europeans, no matter how many times you try to tell us we are.

Our national consciousness is different in many ways than the rest of Europe. For example, in the UK, The Second World War is a strangely positive memory, whereas on the continent the only connotation that that war has is sheer horror. But I still thing we're closer to the Europeans than Americans; in America, WWII is when the USA saved the world and rose to global pre-eminence, whereas we sacrificed our Empire to save Europe.

I did also think we had dealt with Vuk's fevered giberring musings on the decadence of Europe. To my mind, he basicaly thinks that only a staunchly militaristic society is strong enough to survive in the world as he sees it: i.e. one in which a perpetual state of "total war" exists, or where we are all two steps from tipping into one.

We have always been at war with Eastasia! War is peace! Peace is war!

Or, more poignantly:

"War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking in the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent."

for an example arabian culture is not good at modern western style warfare. a war doctrine which is undoubtedly best. the point that individuals can be better designed for war than others has a hell of a lot of relevance.

Culture is borderline irrelevant. We could turn this discussion into a very long and extremely boring thread about how the Arab nations had such and such a model tank rather than this model tank and how their logistics were blah blah blah, but that would be pointless. Give a man a gun, give him a few weeks training and a lifetime of nationalist myths and hate and he'll fight as long and as hard as someone who has lived in the mountains all his life fending off rival tribes with a Victorian rifle and a knife as long as your arm.

Besides, those same Arabs who are supposedly not good at modern warfare managed to keep the United States bogged down in Iraq longer than it took to take down Nazi Germany...

[Centurion1]

patently false. certain third world countries are more than capable of fighting in modern war. arabs simply have trouble because of the society they find themselves in. They are good at the way they want to fight but not in the way the world chose to fight. That is a western style of warfare. Is it any surprise that Western nations are better at western warfare?

[Strike For The South]

patently false. certain third world countries are more than capable of fighting in modern war. arabs simply have trouble because of the society they find themselves in. They are good at the way they want to fight but not in the way the world chose to fight. That is a western style of warfare. Is it any surprise that Western nations are better at western warfare?

lolololol name them

You mean the richest countires with the best technology tend to have better armies? This would be shocking if it wasnt't true for the enitrety of human history

I guess you're tryingfor a more schorlary approach? That's good

[Subotan]

That reminds me of European knights complaining that the Mongols were being unchivalrous and cowardly by slaughtering them using a technique which the Europeans refused to use.

[Centurion1]

Culture is borderline irrelevant. We could turn this discussion into a very long and extremely boring thread about how the Arab nations had such and such a model tank rather than this model tank and how their logistics were blah blah blah, but that would be pointless. Give a man a gun, give him a few weeks training and a lifetime of nationalist myths and hate and he'll fight as long and as hard as someone who has lived in the mountains all his life fending off rival tribes with a Victorian rifle and a knife as long as your arm.

Besides, those same Arabs who are supposedly not good at modern warfare managed to keep the United States bogged down in Iraq longer than it took to take down Nazi Germany...

okay the Germany reference is worthless as you well know. and they are not fighting a modern conventional war. they are using terror and guerrilla tactics. giving a man a gun and a lifetime of etc. will make him not a good soldier....... but lets presume it does. the problem with Arabian armies is their poor leadership and lack of an NCO corp. their fine soldiers individually.

[Strike For The South]

okay the Germany reference is worthless as you well know. and they are not fighting a modern conventional war. they are using terror and guerrilla tactics. giving a man a gun and a lifetime of etc. will make him not a good soldier....... but lets presume it does. the problem with Arabian armies is their poor leadership and lack of an NCO corp. their fine soldiers individually.

Backpedaling

Chest thumping to scrambiling in about 15 posts

Im getting rusty

[Centurion1]

i would be quite worried for soldiers lives if we fought say vietnam or n. korea. or many eastern european or latin american countries. obviously we would win quite easily because of superior tech and numbers but they could very well inflict more damage than say husseins conventional forces did.....

[Centurion1]

Backpedaling

Chest thumping to scrambiling in about 15 posts

Im getting rust

how so? the problems with the arabian war machine in contemporary times lies not with the average joes but with the leadership. and no its not isolated problems like a bad general here or there. its a widespread issue within their forces.

[Strike For The South]

i would be quite worried for soldiers lives if we fought say vietnam or n. korea. or many eastern european or latin american countries. obviously we would win quite easily because of superior tech and numbers but they could very well inflict more damage than say husseins conventional forces did.....

There is no basis in fact for any of this you are simply using your world veiw, racisim (or culture if that makes it an eaiser pill), and anecdotes


how so? the problems with the arabian war machine in contemporary times lies not with the average joes but with the leadership. and no its not isolated problems like a bad general here or there. its a widespread issue within their forces.

Same with every other 3rd world country, Have you seen African civil wars? It's a clown car of lulz

[Centurion1]

read that essay? thats pretty verifiable information that you hear quite alot about from returning trainers.

[Strike For The South]

read that essay? thats pretty verifiable information that you hear quite alot about from returning trainers.

Meh, half of it is explaining how they've been wrong and the other half is wide generalazations that once again can be applied to any 3rd world country

[Subotan]

okay the Germany reference is worthless as you well know.

Why? That was a modern conventional war.

and they are not fighting a modern conventional war. they are using terror and guerrilla tactics.

Ah. Well therein lies the rub, doesn't it?

giving a man a gun and a lifetime of etc. will make him not a good soldier.......

Mhm, it well. Might not make a very effective armed forces, but then, quantity has a quality all of its own.

But you said "for an example arabian culture is not good at modern western style warfare. a war doctrine which is undoubtedly best. the point that individuals can be better designed for war than others has a hell of a lot of relevance." So they're fine soldiers, and still not designed for war?

[Greyblades]

Backpedaling

Chest thumping to scrambiling in about 15 posts

Im getting rusty

Remind me never to play poker with you.

[Centurion1]

Why? That was a modern conventional war.

modern conventional warfare in iraq took a couple weeks.

Mhm, it well. Might not make a very effective armed forces, but then, quantity has a quality all of its own.

But you said "for an example arabian culture is not good at modern western style warfare. a war doctrine which is undoubtedly best. the point that individuals can be better designed for war than others has a hell of a lot of relevance." So they're fine soldiers, and still not designed for war?

yeah i believe that on an individual basis no soldier is really bad and that with sufficient training and good tech they will be more than capable of taking the fight to the enemy. however, the problem lies with the leadership and how they interact with their subordinates.

[Strike For The South]

Which raises an interesting point

If "modern" warfare only took a couple of weeks and more and more wars are being fought gurreila style, maybe the US lacks the SPARTAN CITIZENS to compete in this new paradigm

Perish the thought

Does this airtight theory still hold up as "modern" is on its way out?

[Centurion1]

do you see me saying that america's citizens are awesome military machines....... no but i will say our military is an awesome military machine.

[Ja'chyra]

Just seen this thread, got to say it is amusing.

The idea that the countries who birthed globe spanning empires and birthed countries like the US are, all of a sudden, incapable of fielding a force to defend themselves is laughable.

The simple fact is that we do not need to, neither does the US, I think you'll find that if kith and kin were threatened then the UK could and would field millions, and western Europe 10's of millions. I think you'll also find this also holds true for most countires, best to let sleeping dragons lie and not start WW3.

[Furunculus]

Meh, The Isrealis come from the same culture and they do ok, Turkey isn't a slouch. Those countries problems run so much deeper than instituting a doctirne though. The examples are bad

This whole thing reads like an 1890s pamphlet on the virtues of the white man

there was a report by a US Army Colonel on the 'problems' with Arab culture and how it translates to military effectiveness in modern warfare:

http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars

[Strike For The South]

do you see me saying that america's citizens are awesome military machines....... no but i will say our military is an awesome military machine.

Well at least you have distanced yourself from the racisim and stupidity that is the OP

[Subotan]

modern conventional warfare in iraq took a couple weeks.

Sure, but that's beside the point. You say, not that we're the best at modern conventional war, but that the doctrine of modern "conventional" war is the best. And yet the fact that the Iraqi resistance persisted about 7 years after conventional resistance stopped suggests otherwise.

yeah i believe that on an individual basis no soldier is really bad and that with sufficient training and good tech they will be more than capable of taking the fight to the enemy. however, the problem lies with the leadership and how they interact with their subordinates.

That's not a culture thing though. That's to do with the training of the NCOs and how well the Generals i.e. a completely material issue.