BuffyVerse Mafia: Apocalypse Now [Concluded]

[Yaropolk]

Hey no joke, Sasaki WAS the annointed one. I think pizza may be batting 1000 this game for vig kills.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I will say, for the record, that the scums would have had a rough game even if I were making horrible blunders.

There is no shame in a loss here, the innocent team got into an impenetrable position too early. There was not much that could be done.

[Sprig]

i didn't even have time to be a baddie. nor did i get my threesome with angel :(

[Secura]

Well, here's a list of the all the information that the town network managed to compile over the course of the game.

The Scooby Gang/Possible Recruits
Secura - Buffy Summers (protector/vigilante)
robbiecon - Willow Rosenberg (scanner/recruiter)
Captain Blackadder - Rupert Giles (vigilante/roleblocker, two uses per ability)
Fluffy - Xander Harris (secret voter)
Csargo - Daniel Osbourne (vanilla)
Nictel - Anya (vanilla)
gibsonsg - Jenny Calendar (role name scanner)
Winston Hughes - Tara Maclay (vanilla)

Angel Investigations/Possible Recruits
Reenk Roink - Angel (protector/scanner)
Yaropolk - Allen Francis Doyle (recruiter)
Pizza - Charles Gunn (vigilante/protector)
johnhughthom - Cordelia Chase (vanilla)
Zack - Lorne (personal goal scanner)
pevergreen - Wesley Wyndam-Pryce (could buff either Slayer as long as they had no active Watcher)
Ironside - Faith Lehane (protector)
Chaotix - Fred Burkle (vanilla?)

Sunnydale
Diamondeye - Joyce Summers (passive protector, Dawn Summers could not die while she lived)
TinCow - Dawn Summers (The Key, boosted Glory's abilities upon death)
Death is Yonder - Clem
Death is Yonder2 - Doc (roleblocker)
Warman88 - Riley Finn
Romanic - Drusilla (mason, immune to recruitment while Spike lives)
Greyblades - Spike (mason, immune to recruitment while Drusilla lives)

Los Angeles
dcmort93 - Darla
Lord Winter - Marcus
Khazaar - Dr. Meltzer
Seon - Vanessa Brewer (vigilante)

Glorificus
Skooma Addict - Ben Wilkinson/Glory (killer, gained power by killing Dawn Summers)

Wolfram and Hart
Renata - Holland Manners (scanner/recruiter)
ACIN - Lindsey McDonald
Link - Lilah Morgan
Sprig - Kate Lockley

The Order of Aurelius
classical_hero -The Master
Cecil XIX - Luke
Sasaki Kojiro - The Anointed One


I think that's everything we had, give up take a few pieces of information.

[pevergreen]

Confusing game.

Reenk you didn't reveal to me?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Confusing game.

Reenk you didn't reveal to me?

His efforts ended up sparing you from a lynch, vig-kill, and got you recruited as well. He was definitely there for you, even if at a distance.

[Captain Blackadder]

Sorry for role blocking you pever though I think it was within Giles character to do it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I would like to know why Glory was so passive.

[Captain Blackadder]

That is strange it seems that most of the kills after around night 2 were townie vigs on the warpath. Since Buffy was well known and never attacked as was Reenk and you as Dunn. Plus at the end it didn't take much to figure out I was Giles. I am shocked that we were never attacked.

[Diamondeye]

Well that was a railroaded track to a curb-stomping victory. Thanks to the scum for being good sports and props to the core of the town network.

[TinCow]

Wow, I survived a game as a townie. I think that's a first.

GG

[autolycus]

Attached is the list of who was recruitable by what at the start of the game, except for Dru, where that's listing who she was recruitable by once spike died.


Recruitability Chart.doc

[Askthepizzaguy]

is there any other format you could post it in? I can't open .docs.

[Death is yonder]

Oh auto please disregard my pm.

Good job townie network and to the mafia also for taking things in their stride despite overwhelmingly crippling losses in just a few phases

I was the "powerful tongue" guy, just in case y'all were wondering when Renata made that post.

And thanks for hosting auto, and for the new lease of life too

[pevergreen]

His efforts ended up sparing you from a lynch, vig-kill, and got you recruited as well. He was definitely there for you, even if at a distance.

Oh i know, but he was never fully open to me.

Its ok though, I'm not hurt, we didn't play together this game.

I still love you Reenk.

[autolycus]

atpg, it doesn't want to let me attach an excel or ods file, and if I try to post it direct, the columns get messed up. Maybe you know how to post a table directly?

[Secura]

Maybe you know how to post a table directly?

Screenshot it, host the image on Photobucker/Imageshack/whatever and post it here. :P

[autolycus]

How about pdf? Recruitability Chart.pdf

[Renata]

I would like to know why Glory was so passive.

She wasn't; minus possibly the last night, Skooma did about everything he reasonably could do. IIRC Glory could kill/recruit only every other night. The attack on Yaropolk was him, a failed recruitment attempt. He decided not to try again yet two nights later since he had been away and just returned.

We could not even kill at all for a while there -- not even an issue of choice.

I just hope this game provides some lessons about how much of a buzz-saw a group of impenetrable canon-innocents are. All they have to do is start talking (and all *that* takes is a couple of scans, or one player outed in public via a misguided lynch), and it's game over for the bad guys.

[Captain Blackadder]

I agree Renata what I think needed to happen was a few of the canon innocents needed to be able to be turned. Everyone should have being recruitable as vamps. Plus there might have being Dark versions of characters i.e Giles should have being able to become The Ripper comparing on what happened.

[Secura]

If you look at that document though, you'll see that the vast majority of roles could be converted to one of the mafia sides, if not multiple ones; it was only Angel, Doyle, Buffy, Giles, Willow and Xander that were immune to conversion, and even then Angel could turn if certain parameters were met.

[Yaropolk]

I think if the scum teams had the possibility of recruitment that would not reveal upon failure (akin to Master's team mechanic), they would have been a lot more dangerous. Renata is right - for pro town recruiter with a starting protector, the possibility of being revealed was not a deterrent to blind recruiting to save time.

[Renata]

Yeah, that would have helped. You'll notice that even with all mafia players recruitment-capable (no way to stop it by killing just the "leader", at least for us. I assume the vampires at least were the same. So there were efforts ongoing the whole game) we just couldn't find our recruitables fast enough to keep up with the town. Link's recruitment of Sprig was the only successful mafia recruitment the entire game, and even at that was an incredible longshot*. How many recruitments did the innocent factions manage?


* After the lynch prior to mine (can't remember the role or player), I was told that since our potential recruits were essentially all dead or recruited away from us already, I'd just gained a kill ability as consolation prize. Prior to that our team did not have one. I'm not sure if that was ACIN's job or what; he died before he ever said anythign useful in the QT.


There was also the issue of lack of cover roles/reasonably-innocent-looking real roles for any of the starting mafia, we HAD to recruit someone central to the town's efforts in order to stand any chance at infiltration or information at all. And it just didn't or couldn't happen. Nor did we at least possess any powers other than kill/recruit/scan, none of which we could admit to much less use to look innocent or useful (scanners with dubious roles these days are all but shot on sight, it's so common for mafia to have that power; vigs with dubious roles are if anything of even less longevity, unless you're askthepizzaguy).

The one interesting thing that did happen was that we random-scanned Skooma on night one and learned he was Ben Wilkinson. But not knowing the canon much at all, I didn't realize that meant Glorificus until too late to do anything with it but chuck back and forth a few PMs about how doomed our relative factions were.

[Renata]

Looking at that chart -- amazing. A ton of recruitables, and at first glance it really was down to just Sprig for us after only three days.

What were the conditions for us being able to recruit Angel?

[Yaropolk]

Renata, I ended up recruiting on every night after the first 2 (dcmort failed on n1, then sasaki blocked me on n2)

Auto - could mafia have recruited away existing scooby / angel team members? we were very paranoid on the angel QT about revealing real names because we were concerned that an early recruit such as ATPG may be stolen by the mafia and info would leak out.

[autolycus]

There were a couple of other lucky breaks for the innocents. Oz was recruited night 4, the last night possible. If he reached night 5 unrecruited, he turned into a werewolf SK. Gunn remained vampable even after joining Angel. If Oz or Tara and any 2 other Scoobies died, Willow went Dark Willow and became a Mark Serial Killer.
The only scum recruit attempt that would result in reveal on failure was Wolfram's. The others just turned into kill attempts.
If Glory had managed to get off the ground, she would have been a lot more dangerous. Her first male recruit turned into Jinx and made her immune to lynches while he was alive, her first female recruit turned into Gronx and automatically role-blocked anyone who tried to kill Glory. Anyone converted would auto-sac to save Glory. Jinx was one of the 5 cut, which was a mistake in retrospect.
But yes, the morals of this story are too many masons spoil the soup and Vig killers are lethal.
I'll post more later.


Yaro:If Darla was recruited, she became an Angel scanner and if found could turn him. Atpg was susceptible to vampage even if recruited. Otherwise, no. Once they got on your team, they were on your team for good.


Renata: Anya and Faith were both recruited the final night. Anya would have become a killer if recruited by you. Jenny and Doc never did get recruited.

[Renata]

I'm curious about that too, though I think the answer is no. I told Link/Sprig to investigate Reenk for kicks two nights back (but no orders were sent until last night) and ATPG after that, again for kicks, since he'd implied he might have been recruitable by me originally (turns out not, apparently). But I don't think I would have gotten the "you're all out of recruits, almost" consolation prize if we could just have stolen away a bunch of already-recruited people from the town factions.

[Secura]

How many recruitments did the innocent factions manage?

At the end of the game, the two teams stood at:

The Scooby Gang
Secura - Buffy Summers (protector/vigilante)
robbiecon - Willow Rosenberg (scanner/recruiter)
Captain Blackadder - Rupert Giles (vigilante/roleblocker, two uses per ability)
Csargo - Daniel Osbourne (vanilla)
Nictel - Anya (vanilla)

Angel Investigations/Possible Recruits
Reenk Roink - Angel (protector/scanner)
Yaropolk - Allen Francis Doyle (recruiter)
Pizza - Charles Gunn (vigilante/protector)
johnhughthom - Cordelia Chase (vanilla)
Zack - Lorne (personal goal scanner)
pevergreen - Wesley Wyndam-Pryce (could buff either Slayer as long as they had no active Watcher)
Ironside - Faith Lehane (protector)

We would have recruited a few more, but robbiecon missed an order and I ended up a little paranoid about infiltrators so we didn't risk it from then onwards; Angel Investigations recruited everyone except the deceased Fred Burkle/Chaotix.

[Renata]

7 for the innocents, 1 for the mafia. *cry*

[classical_hero]

The balancing for this game was terrible, especially in a game where people can search for the player, the mafia need to have a cover role so they can go to the town and try and look townish. I tried my best to find someone who was respectable, but it was to no avail. With so many chance for the town to kill it put the mafia at a massive disadvantage. What would have been better for this game is to have one side of the game, like just have the Buffy series done and that way it would have been better balanced since less people could have good from the start and more neutrals around with the vampires around for the baddies to recruit.