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252 BC
Athenian motions:
(Yes)-Attack Sardis.
(Yes)-Train toxotai and peltastai to man the walls of Sardis.
(Yes)-Establish a Free Allied Kingdom in Sardis and that Sardis is to remain neutral in inter-koinon politics.
(Not yet)-Upon taking Sardis look into taking Halikarnassos next and establish a Democratic Kleroucheia (Type II) there.
(Already building barracks)-Build, in Kydonia, a shrine for Athena, goddess of warfare, civilization, wisdom, strength, strategy, crafts, justice and skill!
(Yes)-Build a small elite force (best units) to aid our troops in Mikra Asia against the Arche Seleukeia.
Spartan motions:
(Syrakousai under siege)-When the miltary forces reach Sikilia we immediately assault Syrakousai in order the be in a strategic position. We should blockade the area near Messana to prevent Romanoi from invading Sikilia as well.
(Not yet)-After conquering Syrakousoi one of the two armies must go on to Messana after some retraining.
(They ran away)-Send the alliance army to crush the Epirote army east of Serdike and Pella.
(Already done so)-Gain trades rights with Carthage if not already done so.
(Yes)-Spend less on military.
(Yes)-Establish diplomatic relations with Pontos. The fact that they are now a major player in Thraikia worries me, we should try to have them as friends rather than enemies.
(Yes)-Establish a level III government in Serdike.
(Yes)-Train one unit of Thorikitai Hoplitai.
(Didn't work)-Make an "anonymous donation" to the Averni Keltoi on the condition that they attack the Romanoi. That should halt their Illyrioi expansion.
(Yes in Pella)-Build economic buildings in Pella and Corinthos.
(Not yet)-Construct a native barracks (non-factional troops) in Pella.
(One fort built)-Build two forts north of Serdike to slow down any attack from Naissos.
(Yes)-Build the next level of walls in Serdike to fend of any invasion plans our Getic allies might try in future.
(Yes)-Spies in the northern Italy area to be sent south to see the situation in Rhegion and Sicily more clearly.
(Yes)-Begin training assassins, but we leave them in the cities to complete their training.
(Yes, but they rejected)-Offer an Alliance to Pontus in return for the polis of Sinope.
(Barracks are under construction, taxes at lowest)-Lower taxes and construct agriculture in Sparte.
Surpontosrise!
This polis session is now open.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
This polis session is now open.
Athenians, I come bearing news from the Gerousia. I would like to ask if Athenai would be willing to attack the treacherous Pontiacs in Bithynia. I am fairly certain that the Gerousia will pass a motion to liberate Byzantion, however we will just be bogged down there and unable to defend Hellas' Northern border due to inevitable Poniac attacks on Byzantion. If Nikomedia could be taken and Bithynia wrested from their control, then Byzantion would be much more secure. Now, under normal circumstaces we Spartiate would simply take Nikomedia ourselves, however Arthouros the Divider's law forbids Spartiate entrance to Mikra Asia. Therefore, only Athenai can take Nikomedia. I therefore humbly ask if you would be willing to hold off on your plans to liberate Halikarnassos for a year in order to defeat Pontos in Bithynia.
(I'm on a blackberry, so don't mind my tardiness and shloppyness)
Leumenes, a man that hadn't been seen either in the gerousia or the boule in years, was now at the doorstep of the entrance. He felt the joy and great sentiments he felt when he first stepped inside the honorable boule. He had troublesome time catching up to both assembly's actions.
His son was growing old (OOC: Arthur, could you please point out how old he is, I mentioned his birth in a post and I can't check it, kthx) and he had moved to Lakedaimonia. The land where he was born, his son was in the agoge, he was treated like a regular spartan, no different than both Leumenes or his father. He was, unlike other spartans however, being thaught athenian philosophy, when he would come to the city to steal food, his father also instructed him about life, and it's nature. Without giving him any assistance in his training.
He had left his wife with the kid, she also was studying philosphy, and like his spartan fellows, she had nore to say than she could in Athens. Chremonides was soon going to make his first step into the assembly.
After he finished reading he sat down to deliberate on his first proposals in years.
~Jirisys ()
Leumenes, a man that hadn't been seen either in the gerousia or the boule in years, was now at the doorstep of the entrance. He felt the joy and great sentiments he felt when he first stepped inside the honorable boule. He had troublesome time catching up to both assembly's actions.
His son was growing old (OOC: Arthur, could you please point out how old he is, I mentioned his birth in a post and I can't check it, kthx) and he had moved to Lakedaimonia. The land where he was born, his son was in the agoge, he was treated like a regular spartan, no different than both Leumenes or his father. He was, unlike other spartans however, being thaught athenian philosophy, when he would come to the city to steal food, his father also instructed him about life, and it's nature. Without giving him any assistance in his training.
He had left his wife with the kid, she also was studying philosphy, and like his spartan fellows, she had nore to say than she could in Athens. Chremonides was soon going to make his first step into the assembly.
After he finished reading he sat down to deliberate on his first proposals in years.
~Jirisys ()
Things turn out differently then we expected. To react against the new treat I have a few motions:
1: I propose we quicly attack the last Seleucid stronghold in the area, Ipsos. That way we will have more time to handle Pontos.
2: After (1): I propose that we swiftly attack Nikaia .
3a: After (1): I propose we send a enough reënforcements to Ipsos, including most of the troops that now defend Sardis.
(3b: If we don't manage to get hold on Nikaia or Ipsos, I propose we send the reënforcements to Sardis and Pergamon).
4: I propose we build walls in both Nikaia and Ipsos.
Edit: The Koinon exist 20 years!
1: I propose we quicly attack the last Seleucid stronghold in the area, Ipsos. That way we will have more time to handle Pontos.
2: After (1): I propose that we swiftly attack Nikaia .
3a: After (1): I propose we send a enough reënforcements to Ipsos, including most of the troops that now defend Sardis.
(3b: If we don't manage to get hold on Nikaia or Ipsos, I propose we send the reënforcements to Sardis and Pergamon).
4: I propose we build walls in both Nikaia and Ipsos.
Edit: The Koinon exist 20 years!
Has Green Lizard been bought by the pontic princes perhaps, or is it genuine cowardice we see on display? The seleukids has been broken with the loss of Sardis, Ipsos is protected by but a small garrison and does not pose a threat to the koinon. However, Pontos does and their clever attack through the Chersonesos Thraikia managed to reach Pella, not far from the heart of our beloved Koinon itself! We laid dormant when both Sinope and Byzantion fell to these persian-imitating bastards, and I'd be damned by Athena herself if I did not propose action. Therefore:
I propose that the army, the veterans who just fought the pontics at Pella, marches eastwards and lay siege to Byzantion.
I propose that the army, the veterans who just fought the pontics at Pella, marches eastwards and lay siege to Byzantion.
Originally Posted by Jaertecken:
Has Green Lizard been bought by the pontic princes perhaps, or is it genuine cowardice we see on display? The seleukids has been broken with the loss of Sardis, Ipsos is protected by but a small garrison and does not pose a threat to the koinon. However, Pontos does and their clever attack through the Chersonesos Thraikia managed to reach Pella, not far from the heart of our beloved Koinon itself! We laid dormant when both Sinope and Byzantion fell to these persian-imitating bastards, and I'd be damned by Athena herself if I did not propose action. Therefore:
I was just trying to be careful, perhaps a little too much. Yet I stil stand for my proposals, so we can concentrate fully on Pontos, without that small stronghold in between.Has Green Lizard been bought by the pontic princes perhaps, or is it genuine cowardice we see on display? The seleukids has been broken with the loss of Sardis, Ipsos is protected by but a small garrison and does not pose a threat to the koinon. However, Pontos does and their clever attack through the Chersonesos Thraikia managed to reach Pella, not far from the heart of our beloved Koinon itself! We laid dormant when both Sinope and Byzantion fell to these persian-imitating bastards, and I'd be damned by Athena herself if I did not propose action. Therefore:
Originally Posted by Jaertecken:
[I]]
I propose that the army, the veterans who just fought the pontics at Pella, marches eastwards and lay siege to Byzantion.
Isn't that a Spartan army and a aliance army? We can't command them, we have no Strategos. (Although, the Spartans will attack Byzantion, I think). If you meaned that reserve army we lend to them, you should make a motion to get them out of Spartan command.[I]]
I propose that the army, the veterans who just fought the pontics at Pella, marches eastwards and lay siege to Byzantion.
Besides, Ipsos and Nikaia may mean no treat to our cities, but taking them would not do dammage our position either. And these might be necessary if we want to attack their homelands.
Originally Posted by Populus Romanus:
Athenians, I come bearing news from the Gerousia. I would like to ask if Athenai would be willing to attack the treacherous Pontiacs in Bithynia. I am fairly certain that the Gerousia will pass a motion to liberate Byzantion, however we will just be bogged down there and unable to defend Hellas' Northern border due to inevitable Poniac attacks on Byzantion. If Nikomedia could be taken and Bithynia wrested from their control, then Byzantion would be much more secure. Now, under normal circumstaces we Spartiate would simply take Nikomedia ourselves, however Arthouros the Divider's law forbids Spartiate entrance to Mikra Asia. Therefore, only Athenai can take Nikomedia. I therefore humbly ask if you would be willing to hold off on your plans to liberate Halikarnassos for a year in order to defeat Pontos in Bithynia.
Our Spartan friend speaks sense, much sense. I PROPOSE that we Athenians leave a suitable garrison in Sardis and march upon Nikaia. I PROPOSE also that we send a team of saboteurs and scouts to infiltrate Sinope, destroying Pontic infrastructure therein. I believe that if we may cause enough unrest we may bring about a rebellion among our allies there. The Seleucids are weak upon our borders right now, weaker than I expected, and this latest act of aggression by Pontos cannot be left unanswered.Athenians, I come bearing news from the Gerousia. I would like to ask if Athenai would be willing to attack the treacherous Pontiacs in Bithynia. I am fairly certain that the Gerousia will pass a motion to liberate Byzantion, however we will just be bogged down there and unable to defend Hellas' Northern border due to inevitable Poniac attacks on Byzantion. If Nikomedia could be taken and Bithynia wrested from their control, then Byzantion would be much more secure. Now, under normal circumstaces we Spartiate would simply take Nikomedia ourselves, however Arthouros the Divider's law forbids Spartiate entrance to Mikra Asia. Therefore, only Athenai can take Nikomedia. I therefore humbly ask if you would be willing to hold off on your plans to liberate Halikarnassos for a year in order to defeat Pontos in Bithynia.
Green Lizard is a socialist?! To the Pit of Death with ye!
What did socialists kill your parents or something?
Originally Posted by Arthur, king of the Britons:
What did socialists kill your parents or something?
Yes.What did socialists kill your parents or something?
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
All socialists must DIE! Those Phoinikoi are socialists--DEATH! Those Seleukeis are socialists--DEATH! Hellenes are capitalists--LIFE! Romanoi are capitalists--LIFE!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
@Leumenes: You have a blackberry? I'm sooo jealous.
Please do not go that much off-topic in this thread.
Yes. Though do not do the 'oh-so-common' American analogy of Socialism = Communism = Dictatorship; that's very old hat. Personally I am an Anarchist - Freedom under responsibility (responsibility of the individual), which means that I unlike a *cough* 'liberal' or 'conservative' am distrustful to both governments and corporations regarding their reach and power. In regards of party politics I am a Social Democrat, which means that I do not support planned economy.
And yes, let's end this off-topic derailing.
And yes, let's end this off-topic derailing.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
To slightly redeem myself, I will point out this to the Boule: If you are going to go into the business of breaking Pontos, look at the strength of all their garrisons. All three that we can see are very, very weak. Byzantion is weak. Nikaia is weak. And Ankyra is weak. This means that we could potentially cripple Pontos in a similar lightning strike assault to the opening of the Epeirote Wars, where we almost annihlated them in one year. Theoretically, we could render Pontos completely invalid in a year or two. Not that to attack Ankyra, one would first have to take Ipsos. Fortunately for us, the garrison of Ipsos is also a paltry force! The time is right to strike at the heart of Mikra Asia, men of Athenai!
Originally Posted by Populus Romanus:
Yes.
All socialists must DIE! Those Phoinikoi are socialists--DEATH! Those Seleukeis are socialists--DEATH! Hellenes are capitalists--LIFE! Romanoi are capitalists--LIFE!
But wait: are you a socialist?
@Leumenes: You have a blackberry? I'm sooo jealous.
Yes.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
All socialists must DIE! Those Phoinikoi are socialists--DEATH! Those Seleukeis are socialists--DEATH! Hellenes are capitalists--LIFE! Romanoi are capitalists--LIFE!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
@Leumenes: You have a blackberry? I'm sooo jealous.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Originally Posted by Arthur, king of the Britons:
Yes. Though do not do the 'oh-so-common' American analogy of Socialism = Communism = Dictatorship; that's very old hat. Personally I am an Anarchist - Freedom under responsibility (responsibility of the individual), which means that I unlike a *cough* 'liberal' or 'conservative' am distrustful to both governments and corporations regarding their reach and power. In regards of party politics I am a Social Democrat, which means that I do not support planned economy.
And yes, let's end this off-topic derailing.
Yes. Though do not do the 'oh-so-common' American analogy of Socialism = Communism = Dictatorship; that's very old hat. Personally I am an Anarchist - Freedom under responsibility (responsibility of the individual), which means that I unlike a *cough* 'liberal' or 'conservative' am distrustful to both governments and corporations regarding their reach and power. In regards of party politics I am a Social Democrat, which means that I do not support planned economy.
And yes, let's end this off-topic derailing.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Chremonides, age 7 will join the boule in only 9 years.
~Jirisys ()
I would also like to point out that you (Athenai) may want to check out the political situation of Asia. You have a quite adequate network of spies reporting on the affairs of Mikra Asia, however just beyond that frontier we have no intelligence whatsoever. We must find out the situation in the interior. Who is winning the epic Wars of the Diadochi? Who controls Syria, Our Seleukid enemies or our Ptolemaioi allies? We must know this in order to predict the behavior of the Seleukeis. If they are winning against the Ptolemaioi, then we can expect a lot of trouble if we snatch a few of their Mikra Asian possessions. However, if they are losing then we can expand (relatively) safely in that direction. This is key inteligence we are lacking, men of Athenai!
Hey, I don't have time to participate much right now, but remember that The Recognition of Zones of Interest and Expansion between the Poleis Athenai and Sparte (RZIEPAS?) states that Byzantion shall be neutral.
Originally Posted by Paltmull:
Hey, I don't have time to participate much right now, but remember that The Recognition of Zones of Interest and Expansion between the Poleis Athenai and Sparte (RZIEPAS?) states that Byzantion shall be neutral.
Yes, however the Stratia ton Sparte can still conquer it as long as A) the Stratia ton Koinon is accompanying it or B) it is decared to be a neutral polis. I believe that is the course of action we will take if the motion to conquer Byzantion is passed.Hey, I don't have time to participate much right now, but remember that The Recognition of Zones of Interest and Expansion between the Poleis Athenai and Sparte (RZIEPAS?) states that Byzantion shall be neutral.
@Leumenes: Nikolas Classis (aka ArtoriusRex) has requested that I send you greetings on his behalf.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Originally Posted by Gaius Sempronius Gracchus:
Our Spartan friend speaks sense, much sense. I PROPOSE that we Athenians leave a suitable garrison in Sardis and march upon Nikaia. I PROPOSE also that we send a team of saboteurs and scouts to infiltrate Sinope, destroying Pontic infrastructure therein. I believe that if we may cause enough unrest we may bring about a rebellion among our allies there. The Seleucids are weak upon our borders right now, weaker than I expected, and this latest act of aggression by Pontos cannot be left unanswered.
I AGREE to these proposals.Our Spartan friend speaks sense, much sense. I PROPOSE that we Athenians leave a suitable garrison in Sardis and march upon Nikaia. I PROPOSE also that we send a team of saboteurs and scouts to infiltrate Sinope, destroying Pontic infrastructure therein. I believe that if we may cause enough unrest we may bring about a rebellion among our allies there. The Seleucids are weak upon our borders right now, weaker than I expected, and this latest act of aggression by Pontos cannot be left unanswered.
I PROPOSE that we make Nikaia a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV), Nikaia is not to be neutral.
I PROPOSE that when/if we take Ipsos, it shall be neutral in inter-koinon politics.
I PROPOSE that we expand the military barracks in Pergamon, so that we do not have to recruit all reinforcements to our Mikra Asia Stratia in Athenai.
I PROPOSE that we recruit two units of the best Pergamon has to offer.
I PROPOSE that we expand the trade docks in Athenai.
I PROPOSE that we expand the trade docks in Rhodes.
I PROPOSE that we raise a fleet of Triereis in Rhodes. This fleet shall stay under our command.
I PROPOSE that we make contact with Hayasdan and begin trading with them.
I PROPOSE that we send a spy to the Levant to update us on the situation there.
@Molinaargh, what is the population of Athenai and Sparte respectively?
also regarding:
Is the three squares the base tension between Athenai and Sparte or can it go down further?
Originally Posted by Arthur, king of the Britons:
I AGREE to these proposals.
I PROPOSE that we make Nikaia a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV), Nikaia is not to be neutral.
I PROPOSE that when/if we take Ipsos, it shall be neutral in inter-koinon politics.
I PROPOSE that we expand the military barracks in Pergamon, so that we do not have to recruit all reinforcements to our Mikra Asia Stratia in Athenai.
I PROPOSE that we recruit two units of the best Pergamon has to offer.
I PROPOSE that we expand the trade docks in Athenai.
I PROPOSE that we I expand the trade docks in Rhodes.
I PROPOSE that we raise a fleet of Triereis in Rhodes. This fleet shall stay under our command.
I PROPOSE that we make contact with Hayasdan and begin trading with them.
I PROPOSE that we send a spy to the Levant to update us on the situation there.
@Molinaargh, what is the population of Athenai and Sparte respectively?
also regarding:
Is the three squares the base tension between Athenai and Sparte or can it go down further?
I AGREE with all of Arthouros' proposals.I AGREE to these proposals.
I PROPOSE that we make Nikaia a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV), Nikaia is not to be neutral.
I PROPOSE that when/if we take Ipsos, it shall be neutral in inter-koinon politics.
I PROPOSE that we expand the military barracks in Pergamon, so that we do not have to recruit all reinforcements to our Mikra Asia Stratia in Athenai.
I PROPOSE that we recruit two units of the best Pergamon has to offer.
I PROPOSE that we expand the trade docks in Athenai.
I PROPOSE that we I expand the trade docks in Rhodes.
I PROPOSE that we raise a fleet of Triereis in Rhodes. This fleet shall stay under our command.
I PROPOSE that we make contact with Hayasdan and begin trading with them.
I PROPOSE that we send a spy to the Levant to update us on the situation there.
@Molinaargh, what is the population of Athenai and Sparte respectively?
also regarding:
Is the three squares the base tension between Athenai and Sparte or can it go down further?
Originally Posted by :
Is the three squares the base tension between Athenai and Sparte or can it go down further?
It can go down further.Is the three squares the base tension between Athenai and Sparte or can it go down further?
This session is now over, thanks everyone.
Imageshack seems to be imploding (frozen frog images), so I have no idea how I'll make the next update.
251 BC
Athenian motions:
(Yes)-Attack Ipsos.
(Not yet)-Leave a suitable garrison in Sardis and march upon Nikaia.
(Not yet)-Make Nikaia a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV), Nikaia is not to be neutral.
(Yes)-Expand the military barracks in Pergamon, so that we do not have to recruit all reinforcements to our Mikra Asia Stratia in Athenai.
(Yes)-Recruit two units of the best Pergamon has to offer.
(Impossible)-Expand the trade docks in Athenai and Rhodos.
(Yes)-Raise a fleet of Triereis in Rhodes. This fleet shall stay under our command.
(Yes)-Make contact with Hayasdan and begin trading with them.
(Yes)-Send a spy to the Levant to update us on the situation there.
(On the way)-Send a team of saboteurs and scouts to infiltrate Sinope, destroying Pontic infrastructure therein.
Spartan motions:
(Yes)-Immediately assault Syrokousai.
(Yes)-March the Stratia ton Koinon and the Sparte Reserve Army on Byzantion.
(Already is)-Send the Fleet of the Koinon to blockade the Straight of Messana.
(Yes)-Train two units of Thorakitai Hoplitai and send the lot to reinforce the weakened Sparte Reserve Army.
(Yes)-Call for reinforcements for the Alliance Army, including from Athenai, although not exclusively (as that would make no sense).
The Sieges of Syrakousai and Ipsos
Polis session open!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Polis session open!
@ Molinaargh: My respects to you and this great AAR, please do not view me transferring my confusion from one forum to another as a slight on you.
@ Athenians:
High Priest of Zeus, Diomede rides into Athens at a feverish pace, not stopping for food, not rest, not even to pass bodily fluids, instead electing to do so while on the move. Taking advantage of his contacts and the monestary's wealth, he swiftly changes exhausted horse after horse, somehow shaving an entire day off the arduous journey from Sparte.
Exhausted, he appears among his Athenian peers; the speaker takes pity on him and allows him to interrupt the current discussion and flow of events.
"Athenians", he wheazs, " I note a great deal of unrest among the peoples of the Koinon Hellenon. The omens are bleak, the portents of sacrifice forbidding. I see a shameful end to our alliance, embraced in blood of Makedonians, shattered in the embrace of each others. How do we stop this? What is to be done? Moreover, why have we reached such a catastrophic prelude?
It appears that the gods conspire against us. I do not know why, for I pray daily, as do the many among us, but they seem to have forsaken us. The poisonous nature of the Sparte Nationalist Party and the Arche Athenia seems to be taking hold, twisting, bending facts, making friendship appear to be rivalry, making rivalry appear to be false friendship causing yet more anguish and pain in the long run.
Athenians, allow me to propose the following, in preparation for the next Koinon Hellenon Elections.
Following the law of Arthouros the Divider, allow me to propose that:
Any conquest, under this law's proposal, shall not effect civil unrest within either party as it has already been agreed to;
that, to ensure the above remains true, the Alliance Army remains in maindland Hellas to protect and serve, and to act as a vital pivot in which Spartan and Athenian interests can act without worry for the homeland;
that, as an exception to the above, the Alliance Army may act further affeild providing there is an adequate military presence within Greece.
I am aware this law can not be properly voted on until the appropriate time. Please provide supportive comments that improve this law to an extent that you may vote in favour of it. If you refuse to vote in favouur of it at all, regardless of the shape it finally takes... well, I hope you enjoy your death at the hands of a fellow Athenian during civil war.
@ Athenians:
High Priest of Zeus, Diomede rides into Athens at a feverish pace, not stopping for food, not rest, not even to pass bodily fluids, instead electing to do so while on the move. Taking advantage of his contacts and the monestary's wealth, he swiftly changes exhausted horse after horse, somehow shaving an entire day off the arduous journey from Sparte.
Exhausted, he appears among his Athenian peers; the speaker takes pity on him and allows him to interrupt the current discussion and flow of events.
"Athenians", he wheazs, " I note a great deal of unrest among the peoples of the Koinon Hellenon. The omens are bleak, the portents of sacrifice forbidding. I see a shameful end to our alliance, embraced in blood of Makedonians, shattered in the embrace of each others. How do we stop this? What is to be done? Moreover, why have we reached such a catastrophic prelude?
It appears that the gods conspire against us. I do not know why, for I pray daily, as do the many among us, but they seem to have forsaken us. The poisonous nature of the Sparte Nationalist Party and the Arche Athenia seems to be taking hold, twisting, bending facts, making friendship appear to be rivalry, making rivalry appear to be false friendship causing yet more anguish and pain in the long run.
Athenians, allow me to propose the following, in preparation for the next Koinon Hellenon Elections.
Following the law of Arthouros the Divider, allow me to propose that:
Any conquest, under this law's proposal, shall not effect civil unrest within either party as it has already been agreed to;
that, to ensure the above remains true, the Alliance Army remains in maindland Hellas to protect and serve, and to act as a vital pivot in which Spartan and Athenian interests can act without worry for the homeland;
that, as an exception to the above, the Alliance Army may act further affeild providing there is an adequate military presence within Greece.
I am aware this law can not be properly voted on until the appropriate time. Please provide supportive comments that improve this law to an extent that you may vote in favour of it. If you refuse to vote in favouur of it at all, regardless of the shape it finally takes... well, I hope you enjoy your death at the hands of a fellow Athenian during civil war.
OOC: I'm probably gonna get flamed for this: I know that most people like the way the civil war meter works, but I really don't understand it. Arthuros' dividing law was made to avoid conflicts. Also, as there are still quite a lot of threats towards Greece, such as Pontos and the Getai (?) and as both Athens and Sparta are busy fighting their separate wars, I don't really think it makes sense that a civil war would suddenly break out. Furthermore and most importantly, if no member of either council wants a civil war; why would there be one? Shouldn't a civil war begin when (if) one of the councils decide to declare war? It just seems weird to me that some kind of magic meter should decide our foreign policies.
I hope this didn't sound rude or anything. I really like this AAR, but I just don't understand this particular feature.
I hope this didn't sound rude or anything. I really like this AAR, but I just don't understand this particular feature.
Still no proposals eh? 
Originally Posted by Populus Romanus:
Still proposals eh?
I believe you missed a 'No' there friend. :PStill proposals eh?
I PROPOSE that we raise a Second Athenian Stratia, comprised of proffesional troops and place Periklymenos Naxios as its commander.
I PROPOSE that when fully recruited this army is to take Nikaia from Pontos.
I PROPOSE that we expand the theatron in Athenai.
I PROPOSE that we build a theatron in Rhodes, to keep the inhabitants entertained.
I PROPOSE that we make contact with the Pahlava and begin trading with them.
Originally Posted by Paltmull:
OOC: I'm probably gonna get flamed for this: I know that most people like the way the civil war meter works, but I really don't understand it. Arthuros' dividing law was made to avoid conflicts. Also, as there are still quite a lot of threats towards Greece, such as Pontos and the Getai (?) and as both Athens and Sparta are busy fighting their separate wars, I don't really think it makes sense that a civil war would suddenly break out. Furthermore and most importantly, if no member of either council wants a civil war; why would there be one? Shouldn't a civil war begin when (if) one of the councils decide to declare war? It just seems weird to me that some kind of magic meter should decide our foreign policies.
I hope this didn't sound rude or anything. I really like this AAR, but I just don't understand this particular feature.
I partially agree with this. What I find most disconcerting is that the majority of the increases and decreases take me and (I think, at least) most of the rest of us off guard. I do like the feature, but it is definitely confusing.OOC: I'm probably gonna get flamed for this: I know that most people like the way the civil war meter works, but I really don't understand it. Arthuros' dividing law was made to avoid conflicts. Also, as there are still quite a lot of threats towards Greece, such as Pontos and the Getai (?) and as both Athens and Sparta are busy fighting their separate wars, I don't really think it makes sense that a civil war would suddenly break out. Furthermore and most importantly, if no member of either council wants a civil war; why would there be one? Shouldn't a civil war begin when (if) one of the councils decide to declare war? It just seems weird to me that some kind of magic meter should decide our foreign policies.
I hope this didn't sound rude or anything. I really like this AAR, but I just don't understand this particular feature.
Originally Posted by diomede:
High Priest of Zeus, Diomede rides into Athens at a feverish pace, not stopping for food, not rest, not even to pass bodily fluids, instead electing to do so while on the move. Taking advantage of his contacts and the monestary's wealth, he swiftly changes exhausted horse after horse, somehow shaving an entire day off the arduous journey from Sparte.
Exhausted, he appears among his Athenian peers; the speaker takes pity on him and allows him to interrupt the current discussion and flow of events.
"Athenians", he wheazs, " I note a great deal of unrest among the peoples of the Koinon Hellenon. The omens are bleak, the portents of sacrifice forbidding. I see a shameful end to our alliance, embraced in blood of Makedonians, shattered in the embrace of each others. How do we stop this? What is to be done? Moreover, why have we reached such a catastrophic prelude?
It appears that the gods conspire against us. I do not know why, for I pray daily, as do the many among us, but they seem to have forsaken us. The poisonous nature of the Sparte Nationalist Party and the Arche Athenia seems to be taking hold, twisting, bending facts, making friendship appear to be rivalry, making rivalry appear to be false friendship causing yet more anguish and pain in the long run.
Athenians, allow me to propose the following, in preparation for the next Koinon Hellenon Elections.
Following the law of Arthouros the Divider, allow me to propose that:
Any conquest, under this law's proposal, shall not effect civil unrest within either party as it has already been agreed to;
that, to ensure the above remains true, the Alliance Army remains in maindland Hellas to protect and serve, and to act as a vital pivot in which Spartan and Athenian interests can act without worry for the homeland;
that, as an exception to the above, the Alliance Army may act further affeild providing there is an adequate military presence within Greece.
I am aware this law can not be properly voted on until the appropriate time. Please provide supportive comments that improve this law to an extent that you may vote in favour of it. If you refuse to vote in favouur of it at all, regardless of the shape it finally takes... well, I hope you enjoy your death at the hands of a fellow Athenian during civil war.
"Fellow Athenoi, this proposal is very wise indeed, and something that will surely only be of benefit to us all, both Spartans and Athenians.High Priest of Zeus, Diomede rides into Athens at a feverish pace, not stopping for food, not rest, not even to pass bodily fluids, instead electing to do so while on the move. Taking advantage of his contacts and the monestary's wealth, he swiftly changes exhausted horse after horse, somehow shaving an entire day off the arduous journey from Sparte.
Exhausted, he appears among his Athenian peers; the speaker takes pity on him and allows him to interrupt the current discussion and flow of events.
"Athenians", he wheazs, " I note a great deal of unrest among the peoples of the Koinon Hellenon. The omens are bleak, the portents of sacrifice forbidding. I see a shameful end to our alliance, embraced in blood of Makedonians, shattered in the embrace of each others. How do we stop this? What is to be done? Moreover, why have we reached such a catastrophic prelude?
It appears that the gods conspire against us. I do not know why, for I pray daily, as do the many among us, but they seem to have forsaken us. The poisonous nature of the Sparte Nationalist Party and the Arche Athenia seems to be taking hold, twisting, bending facts, making friendship appear to be rivalry, making rivalry appear to be false friendship causing yet more anguish and pain in the long run.
Athenians, allow me to propose the following, in preparation for the next Koinon Hellenon Elections.
Following the law of Arthouros the Divider, allow me to propose that:
Any conquest, under this law's proposal, shall not effect civil unrest within either party as it has already been agreed to;
that, to ensure the above remains true, the Alliance Army remains in maindland Hellas to protect and serve, and to act as a vital pivot in which Spartan and Athenian interests can act without worry for the homeland;
that, as an exception to the above, the Alliance Army may act further affeild providing there is an adequate military presence within Greece.
I am aware this law can not be properly voted on until the appropriate time. Please provide supportive comments that improve this law to an extent that you may vote in favour of it. If you refuse to vote in favouur of it at all, regardless of the shape it finally takes... well, I hope you enjoy your death at the hands of a fellow Athenian during civil war.
Therefore I support this law amendment and advice you all to do the same, for the good of the Koinon Hellenon."
I PROPOSE that we actively try to piss off the inhabitants of Sardis and Ipsos so that they are no longer aligned towards us, Poublious shall insult them, calling them Barbaroi and claim that they have no honour, so that the Civil War metre goes down. At the same time these poleis shall not align towards Sparte, if they attempt doing so then we will claim that the Spartiatai also view them as weaklings and women in disguise. Which shall force them to become neutral in inter-koinon politics, whether they like it or not.
I PROPOSE that we expand the trading docks in Kydonia
I PROPOSE that we send scouts to search for any large Seleucid force in Mikra Asia.
I PROPOSE that we expand the trading docks in Kydonia
I PROPOSE that we send scouts to search for any large Seleucid force in Mikra Asia.
I AGREE with Arthouros Attike's motions
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