Koinon Hellenon: Athens X Sparta (.org X TWCenter), a participative AAR - Athenai

[jirisys]

I DISAGREE with the first proposal. It's not fair that all Spartans should suffer for ones incompetence. They should have the same starting position in the elections as we have. I believe that only an individuals merits should count.
Regarding the fifth proposal. What do you mean by "councilors"?

Leumenes arrived late, his philosphy class carried him on, as he would not leave until he had to. Besides, he met with a beautiful woman, whom he spend some time with. As it appears he is growing up, and growing a proud beard on his chin too. Grabbed couselor Walle's note and proceeded to adress it.

"Fellow men, I see that we have been splitting with this radical changes, some against and some for, yet Areus the brave spartan commander, fled like a coward, what a shame to the alliance. All spartan men would rather fight to the death and destroy our armies than run and fight another day (which all spartans would not do), I see no joy in the fact that we cannot allow the Strategos not to go to spartan hands, yet, if only I would be allowed in the spartan assembly, then it would bring unity and vision to our next orders, to both cooperate in our survival. Yet the cowardice of the strategos should be handed by his own men, it shames me deeply. But it is true we need to work together, but if our own army is smaller than the allied one; who will give men to it? Who will reinforce it when time of most need? Who will defend our city if the army is not available? We need more men, levies are the only thing we have, as I said, pay a visit to the Kretai so we will have the resources to train volunteers, proud athenian men, bearing the proud and watchful eye on their shield."

He sat down, yet he forgot to add something.

"Fear not, my spartan friends, for you are welcome in this assembly, but you are no longer welcome to lead our men."

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Councilors=Councilmen or Counselor

He could not bear the shame, he had renounced his childhood friends' fathers the right to lead the most powerful army in hellas. He went outside and wept in sorrow, for he was told his friend, Arkotelos, son of Solokes Lakedaimonios, died protecting Areus, before he fled like a coward, leaving him to his death. He would not leave the spartans to blame the athenians, or them (athenians) to help the spartans, unless it would be convenient for him.

~Jirisys ()

[Populus Romanus]

I do believe that the proposal to ban Spartans from election was just killed. After all, we Spartans would have to approve of it.

[Molinaargh]

This session is now over, an update will be made soon.

[Molinaargh]

Athenian orders:
-Fort to be built in the north of Attike and a small garrison placed there (Yes).
-Alliance army under Areus not allowed to march through Attike (Yes).
-Recruit more men (Yes).
-Improve recruitment in Athenai (Not yet).
-Improve the economy of Rhodes (Not yet).
-Economic analysis of the cities and the Koinon to be made (Yes).
-Consult mercenary availability (Yes).

Spartan orders:
-Retrain the Army in Sparta (Yes).
-Merge the Alliance Army with the Spartan Army (Yes).

268 BC



As per orders of the poleis, Chremonides built a fort to the north of Athens to block any Macedonian armies, while Areus left Attika, returning to Sparta to retrain the army.


Reinforcements were recruited in both Sparte and Athens.


In Sparte, the troops were heavily reinforced, in an attempt to bring back the Alliance Army to full strength.


Akrotatos, currently governor of Korinthos, participated in the Olympic games, but failed to win anything.


In that city, as well as in Chalkis, the new hellenic governments were fully instituted.


The Koinon Hellenon was now composed of 5 independent poleis.


Its treasury wasn't doing so well, especially since the retraining of the Alliance Army.


Many mercenaries were available for hire, but the Alliance couldn't afford any of them. The Alliance currently owes money, having nothing in its coffers.


The Athenian fort was eventually besieged by the Makedonians.


In Athens, reinforcements kept being levied to help with a possible confrontation.


When the Makedonians attacked, the 20 Athenian skirmishers stood no chance.





Reinforcements were quickly levied once again, but...


...the Macedonians didn't take long to reach Athens after the fort fell. Athenai was besieged.


And Athenai was alone for now, as any army led by Areus was forbidden of entering Attike. He could easily ignore this order - it was an Athenian order and not a Koinon one - but with the current relations between the two cities, he much rather not help the Athenians. Either way, he was about to lose command of the Alliance Army. 4 years had passed, and it was time for the Koinon Elections, which would happen in this year, 268 BC, despite the siege of Athens.

KOINON ELECTIONS




Possible candidates for both cities:

I recommend waiting for the elections to be over before proposing any polis motions, as the situation is likely to change after the offices are decided.

Offices to be voted for:
-Strategos Autokrator
-Hegemon

Athenian possible candidates:
-Chremonides Aithalidos Attikos
(Sadly there is only one candidate for Athens. He can only run for 1 of the 2 offices).

[jirisys]

Leumenes arrived to the assembly, but not before going to the wall and seeing the besieging army. With a smirk on his face, he saw the two skirmishers enter the city, he was confident, and glad to see his plan worked, the poor 18 skirmishers gained him enough time to levy a decent army to protect the city, he went down and apologized to the families and escorted the two men to their homes.

His face was sweaty, and all the assemblymen were sitting, he was the last one. He saw a few Korinthians having a nice chat with the Euobians, he would keep that on his mind and remember it when most needed. Yet he knew they only talked to the Euobians because of their neutrality. He knew they supported sparta like if they were spartans themselves. He knew there was only a man electable for a single office, yet they didn't have that many support.

He knew that the position of strategos was of high importance (and was very convinced that another spartan would be the end af the polis), that and since the Athenian council offices and parties were going to be elected soon, he went to his protectee.

He asked the orator, who had paused from delivering the economical report of the poleis and the Koinon. He took the stand.

"My fellow councilmen, spartan and korinthian invitees. Welcome all. These are dire times, especially for Athenai, our city, besieged in a few hours, and without supplies, Sparta (and the allied army) not able (and if able, not willing), we must stand and fight, in the walls and in the streets, let us ask of our fellow slaves and willing men to throw rocks and arrows and anything at the incoming attackers, they will find themselves outnumbered if they dare climb the walls or enter our city, fools will they be, and we will prove that we are brave men."

"Yet, our strategies have worked, sadly, eighteen men have died, and the survivors may not live through their wounds, but their great sacrifice has brought a lot of time to levy men for the defense of the city, I would like to thank them, personally. We must prepare for the supply shortage and the defense of our polis. But other matters at hand. If we would earn, supported by all our hellenic friends, from Rhodoi to the Pelopponesos, to support us, for my respectable councilman and my elder Polemarchos, Chremonides Aithalidos Attikos, to run for the Strategos Autokrator position. For if he wins, the spartans would have to give the men and we would start to defend our city and our borders, so the Makedonian force be depleted in-detail, but we must have an athenian, one who will know when and where to strike, and is not afraid to fight another day, one wise, and of course, Chremonides is the chosen for this, as he will bring great victories to the alliance. We ask your support, so that we may prosper even more."

It was one of the few speeches he said when he was not choleric. It seems to have gone well. He sat down on his usual seat, and waited for the assembly to finish the report, then to decide on his motions.

But not before the creation of his own party...

I PROPOSE Chremonides to run for Strategos Autokrator.

~Jirisys (You should adopt somebody)

[Molinaargh]

Athenian Council - Offices and Parties

Prytaneis: These men are the best among the Athenians. Every Party Leader is a Prytanis.

Epistates: This is the most important position in the council. The Epistates is the supervisor of the council, being the most important of the Athenian councilors. This position will be voted for amongst all members of the Athenian Council, but only Party Leaders can be voted for this position.
Party Leaders: This is the leader of a given party in the poleis. Only these men can run for the position of Epistates. Only those who belong to the party may vote or be voted for this position.

The Moderate Party is the standard party. All those who don’t belong to other parties belong to it. Until new parties are created, everyone is a Moderate.

You can form a new party by posting in the thread!The party must have at least 2 members in order to be accepted, so at least 1 more member will have to join you.

Parties may be created now. The founder of the party will be its Party Leader for the first 4 years.

[jirisys]

I will found the Σμβαλλόμενο μέρος των σοφού και δίκαιου (Sumballomeno meros ton sophou kai dikaiou (Party of the wise and just (PWJ))

To spread the word of great Aristoteles and Clistenes, Platon and Euclides, all the men that are Athenian or not, may them be wise and they shall receive their due right. We will fight ignorance, impulsivity and injustice, with wisdom, deliberation and fairness. We must join, join the men in Hellas to a greater life, as part of the powerful and free Demos, for them not to be called idiotes, that they vote, like free men. To join all of Hellas in intellectual panhellenism and to be proud and strong, like all Hellas should be. Yet, if they so wish, allow full autonomy, but to unite the people as one, as the people from Hellas.

What better symbol for our cause than that of the owl of Athena?

The owl to be black and the shield to be dark blue

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(Maybe same as of the faction symbol but with a black owl)

~Jirisys ()

[Populus Romanus]

I want to start the Sparte Nationalist Party. I am sure Diomede, a fellow Spartan, will join.

[jirisys]

I want to start the Sparte Nationalist Party. I am sure Diomede, a fellow Spartan, will join.

ATHENIAN council parties lol

~Jirisys (Do it on twc )

[Vaginacles]

I want to start an Arche Athene party, with the goal of Athens being the dominant power of the KH. This means doing everything in our power to further the power of Athens, rather than pursuing the idea of Pan-Hellenism that the KH represents.

I recommend the other party be one that supports the ideals of theKH and desires a unified greek nation, supporting Pan-hellenism.

Colour: Blue

Athena will be our flag

[Molinaargh]

Yes, a few things that would be nice to inform together with the name of the party:
-Ideals of the party (like Vaginacles said, what ideals the party will defend).
-Color(s).
-Symbol (supply an image or just describe it).

[jirisys]

I want to start an Arche Athene party, with the goal of Athens being the dominant power of the KH. This means doing everything in our power to further the power of Athens, rather than pursuing the idea of Pan-Hellenism that the KH represents.

I recommend the other party be one that supports the ideals of theKH and desires a unified greek nation, supporting Pan-hellenism.

That's pretty much what the Σμβαλλόμενο μέρος των σοφού και δίκαιου is about, besides, Arche means kingdom IIRC. Why don't you join us, to spread the word of great aristoteles and clistenes, platon and euclides, all the men that are Athenian or not, may them be wise and they shall receive their due right. We will fight ignorance, impulsivity and injustice, with wisdom, deliberation and justice. We must join, join the men in Hellas to a greater life, as part of the Demos.

~Jirisys ()

[Vaginacles]

I don't like your name, it doesn't succinctly capture our ideals. Arche in greek means beginnings, base, or soverignty, domination, not necessarly kingdom. Considering that Basileus means king, i'd imagine the ancient greek word for kingdom would be basilon or something similar.

I support our party name to be the Arche Athena, because of the power of the word Arche. It suggests that all things greek, its culture, ideas, etc, derives from the base of Athens. We can bicker about the symbols later ;)

[Molinaargh]

If there are 2 founders, like it seems will be the case for Jirisys and Vaginacles, the members of the party can vote for who will be the Party Leader, instead of it being the 1 founder (since there might be 2 founders in this situation).

[jirisys]

I don't like your name, it doesn't succinctly capture our ideals. Arche in greek means beginnings, base, or soverignty, domination, not necessarly kingdom. Considering that Basileus means king, i'd imagine the ancient greek word for kingdom would be basilon or something similar.

I support our party name to be the Arche Athena, because of the power of the word Arche. It suggests that all things greek, its culture, ideas, etc, derives from the base of Athens. We can bicker about the symbols later ;)

Arche Athenaia I believe, I already updated my post, hope more people join for the cause.

~Jirisys ()

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

So..... while the Makedonians are massed around our walls are we to bicker over whose glory is to be the greatest? What remnants of glory will be left to us or the Spartans if our will is subordinate to the whims of a Makedonian King? Shall we bicker over the crumbs that are scattered for us? Shall we learn nothing from our shared history? Perhaps, then, we should replace the owl as our symbol - a symbol of strength and of wisdom - with that of a pigeon; strutting, preening stupidity, living off the scraps from greater beasts' kills.

I propose a party of Koinon Hellenon, whose symbol, Pegasus, is known to us all. Greek unity is where Athens' real greatness lies.

What should we learn from the previous wars between our great cities? What greatness did that conflict bring to us Greeks? What it did was weaken us. What it did was strip us of our finest men. What it did was turn us into barbarian savages, unworthy of our consideration of ourselves as the flowering of civilisation in its grandest form. What it did was allowed those barbarians from the North to strip us of our independence, our freedom.

I am for Athens, but I am for the Greeks. We, good men of Greece, must put aside these petty rivalries and work together. Athens will stand for nought unless it stands within its own power, but that power must be as part of a greater confederacy - of free Greek states, of free Greek men. While we turn toward each other and jab sticks at each other, the Makedonians will stand at our flank and jab spears at us. Our glory will come from our deeds, from the future results of our actions now. History will judge those who sought the appearance of glory over those who sought real Greek unity and success. Let us not repeat the errors of our past. Let us not fall into the power of barbarians because we cannot see or share our oneness as Greeks.

[Populus Romanus]

We Spartans believe that the Arche Athenaia represents the greatest threat the Koinoin Hellenon has ever faced. If the Arche Athenaia wishes to enslave Sparte by dominating us, you can say goodbye to that. Neither Sparte nor Rhodos will ever accept this, and would rather secede (thus killing the AAR) than accept your evil ambitions. The Sparte Nationalist Party will never accept this, and will have all Arche Athenaia members caught showing their faces in the Sparte Council executed for treason and crimes against Koinoin Hellenon.

[jirisys]

So..... while the Makedonians are massed around our walls are we to bicker over whose glory is to be the greatest? What remnants of glory will be left to us or the Spartans if our will is subordinate to the whims of a Makedonian King? Shall we bicker over the crumbs that are scattered for us? Shall we learn nothing from our shared history? Perhaps, then, we should replace the owl as our symbol - a symbol of strength and of wisdom - with that of a pigeon; strutting, preening stupidity, living off the scraps from greater beasts' kills.

I propose a party of Koinon Hellenon, whose symbol, Pegasus, is known to us all. Greek unity is where Athens' real greatness lies.

What should we learn from the previous wars between our great cities? What greatness did that conflict bring to us Greeks? What it did was weaken us. What it did was strip us of our finest men. What it did was turn us into barbarian savages, unworthy of our consideration of ourselves as the flowering of civilisation in its grandest form. What it did was allowed those barbarians from the North to strip us of our independence, our freedom.

I am for Athens, but I am for the Greeks. We, good men of Greece, must put aside these petty rivalries and work together. Athens will stand for nought unless it stands within its own power, but that power must be as part of a greater confederacy - of free Greek states, of free Greek men. While we turn toward each other and jab sticks at each other, the Makedonians will stand at our flank and jab spears at us. Our glory will come from our deeds, from the future results of our actions now. History will judge those who sought the appearance of glory over those who sought real Greek unity and success. Let us not repeat the errors of our past. Let us not fall into the power of barbarians because we cannot see or share our oneness as Greeks.

Leumenes stood up when he finished, he felt every word in his heart, as he, a child from a spartan, who he, as an athenian, spent years in Lakedaimonia, was heartbroken, to see that spartans were now more bloodthirsty and impulsive, and athenians were too controlling and had a sense of egolatry themselves. He trusted the spartans, but what they did was a clear violation of what they agreed to with the athenians. Of course he supports Athenai, because it's his polis, and agrees with most of their policies, he is still torn that the spartans have become so reckless and uninterested. He still admired them and loved them like brothers, yet his anger was blinding him. Gaius, a man he only heard remotly and hardly ever saw in the assembly, but he was calming him down, with kind words, his friends' death was affecting him, even beyond his rationality. Maybe Gaius would become a good friend... Or a terrible enemy.

He stood up, with bloody eyes, yet retaining his composture, and uttered these words loudly and firmly: "Fellow councilmen; this man speaks words of truth. We cannot allow our own ego to stand in the way, we must repel these laws, that stop the spartans from showing support to us, I am sorry, but we must let them cross through Attike, even when the elections may not come into our favour. We must cooperate, I just hope that they do the same thing. Do not see us as athenians or book lovers, but see us as the Sumballomeno meros ton sophou kai dikaiou (Party of the wise and just) sees you, like fellow Hellenos."

Handed a written note to the orator, which read:

I PROPOSE we allow the spartan army to traverse our lands. Yes, the SPARTAN army.
I PROPOSE we do not ask for spartan help until they become more kind to us.
I PROPOSE we give them and unit standing either in Rhodoi or Chalkis, to the ally army, to show our support and willingness to cooperate.
I PROPOSE we give a formal forgivness to Areus, yet still not allow him to run as a Strategos.
I PROPOSE we give a provisional seat to one of the spartan councilors and one of the korinthian councilors.
I PROPOSE we give a formal apology to Sparte for our usurpation and ask for theirs too.
I PROPOSE I go and apologize to the Spartan assembly about my very radical measures, even if it might cost me my life.

Leumenes sat down again, knowing that this meant much, but the spartans would like to profit from it, it was as easy to put them back on line.

~Jirisys ()

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

If I might assure our visitor from Sparta that the party named do not represent the Athenian position on our alliance. Given the somewhat...ermm..., erratic advice that has been offered by Leumenes in our Council I shudder to think what 'advice' he might have offered your own council. It surprises me not in the least that you were inclined to remove him. I might suggest that he add a little more water to his wine, lest he should poison himself as much as he poisons relations between our peoples.

We should not forget, fellow Athenians, that Athens is free because Areus took it upon himself to ignore the isolationist proposition that Spartans not enter Attike. Now we rely upon our allies to once again defend our freedom with their sons, while some of our number deride them and talk of our hegemony over them. I offer my apologies to our visitor from Sparta for the crassness and short-sightedness (and perhaps a hint of Makedonian drunkeness) of some of the Council members here. I believe in the ideals that Chremonides pursues and that our Koinon is based upon.

[diomede]

Athenians, I request a confirmation. Is it just Attica we are not permitted to traverse?
Also, are we allowed to save your ass (again)? :P

[Populus Romanus]

Leumenes stood up when he finished, he felt every word in his heart, as he, a child from a spartan, who he, as an athenian, spent years in Lakedaimonia, was heartbroken, to see that spartans were now more bloodthirsty and impulsive, and athenians were too controlling and had a sense of egolatry themselves. He trusted the spartans, but what they did was a clear violation of what they agreed to with the athenians. Of course he supports Athenai, because it's his polis, and agrees with most of their policies, he is still torn that the spartans have become so reckless and uninterested. He still admired them and loved them like brothers, yet his anger was blinding him. Gaius, a man he only heard remotly and hardly ever saw in the assembly, but he was calming him down, with kind words, his friends' death was affecting him, even beyond his rationality. Maybe Gaius would become a good friend.

He stood up, with bloody eyes, yet retaining his composture, and uttered these words loudly and firmly: "Fellow councilmen, this man speaks words of truth. We cannot allow our own ego to stand in the way, we must repell these laws, that stop the spartans from showing support to us, I am sorry, but we must let them cross through Attike, even when the elections may not come into our favour. We must cooperate, I just hope that they do the same thing."

Handed a written note to the orator, which read:

I PROPOSE we allow the spartan army to traverse our lands. Yes, the SPARTAN army.
I PROPOSE we do not ask for spartan help until they become more kind to us.
I PROPOSE we give them and unit standing either in Rhodoi or Chalkis, to the ally army, to show our support and willingness to cooperate.
I PROPOSE we give a formal forgivness to Areus, yet still not allow him to run as a Strategos.
I PROPOSE we give a provisional seat to one of the spartan councilors and one of the korinthian councilors.
I PROPOSE we give a formal apology to Sparte for our usurpation and ask for theirs too.

Leumenes sat down again, knowing that this meant much, but the spartans would like to profit from it, it was as easy to put them back on line.

~Jirisys ()

Hip-hip-hoorah! Jirisys and the Spartans are finally seeing things the same way! This, this is a huge step in the right direction for Athenai-Sparte relations. We members of the Sparte Nationalist Party promise to do our part.

P.S. Diomede join the SNP!

[jirisys]

Athenians, I request a confirmation. Is it just Attica we are not permitted to traverse?
Also, are we allowed to save your ass (again)? :P

Don't cuss.
The measure is still in place, I proposed for a removal.

~Jirisys ()

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

With new information, Gaius arose. "I must offer my apologies to my comrade and colleague Leumenes. I have attributed his venom to an excess of drink. To my shame, it is rather an excess of grief, and none drink of that by choice, nor can it be watered down. But Spartans grieve too. We all have lost, but we will not aid our position by bickering among ourselves as to who is to blame; nor should future elections be decided upon such emotion. We Athenians pride ourselves upon our logic. Let us then be logical, and strong, and let us try to avoid such mistakes as have been already made from being repeated. Again, my apologies for my ignorant slur upon Leumenes."

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Thank you for your typical Laconic wit, diomede. A well known trait of the Spartans. Perhaps a little rash in context but then, as Areus demonstrated, this might be seen as another well known Spartan trait.

[jirisys]

With new information, Gaius arose. "I must offer my apologies to my comrade and colleague Leumenes. I have attributed his venom to an excess of drink. To my shame, it is rather an excess of grief, and none drink of that by choice, nor can it be watered down. But Spartans grieve too. We all have lost, but we will not aid our position by bickering among ourselves as to who is to blame; nor should future elections be decided upon such emotion. We Athenians pride ourselves upon our logic. Let us then be logical, and strong, and let us try to avoid such mistakes as have been already made from being repeated. Again, my apologies for my ignorant slur upon Leumenes."

Leumenes, very happy, yet confused () asking himself desperately how did he know he was grieving, there must be something, he was desperate, on conmotion, yet in the outside, he stood still, like a corpse, nobody noticed this, yet he was still asking himself how was that possible, who was he? How did he knew? He kept rambling on, yet, he had a moment of clarity. Stood up and told the assembly (in which spartans were considerably delighted):
"Fellow men, this, is how the Sumballomeno meros ton sophou kai dikaiou (Party of the wise and just) stands up for their fellow citiziens and warriors, slaves and klerouchs, all of them, as fellow hellenos, for maybe Sparte and Athenai have a rivalry, but it can always be settled with drinks and music and fighting, like brothers, side by side, spartan, athenian, euboians, rhodoi, kretoi, korinthian, hellenos all. Let the Party of the wise and just prevail, FOR UNITY AND GLORY OF HELLAS IN ALL OF THE WORLD!"

He sat down, not thinking about the mind-boggling affair of which he was deluding himself over it, yet he knew what was missing...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Nobody knew his friend Arkotelos was his friend... However this may be interesting...

~Jirisys ()

[diomede]

Don't cuss.
The measure is still in place, I proposed for a removal.

~Jirisys ()

No literally, he needs help

(Sorry)

Thank you for your typical Laconic wit, diomede. A well known trait of the Spartans. Perhaps a little rash in context but then, as Areus demonstrated, this might be seen as another well known Spartan trait.

I appreciate this post, both for the rhetoric and the use of "laconic" so appropriately. Have a balloon.
(Are Spartans allowed to give balloons?)

[Molinaargh]

KOINON ELECTION RESULTS - 268 BC



Chremonides has, as expected, won the election for the position of Strategos. Normally he would march to the position of the Alliance Army, but since he is in Athens, under siege, the Alliance Army has to go to him. It is up to the Athenians to decide if the Alliance Army will come commanded by an athenian captain or by the Spartan generals (and the Spartan hoplites that accompany them!). The Spartans must abide to the decision of the Athenians, since there is a new Strategos. The tables have turned.

This council must now decide the actions for the following year. With the current set of offices, the Athenians have more control of the military while the Spartans control buildings and recruitment of units.

[Walle]

So..... while the Makedonians are massed around our walls are we to bicker over whose glory is to be the greatest? What remnants of glory will be left to us or the Spartans if our will is subordinate to the whims of a Makedonian King? Shall we bicker over the crumbs that are scattered for us? Shall we learn nothing from our shared history? Perhaps, then, we should replace the owl as our symbol - a symbol of strength and of wisdom - with that of a pigeon; strutting, preening stupidity, living off the scraps from greater beasts' kills.

I propose a party of Koinon Hellenon, whose symbol, Pegasus, is known to us all. Greek unity is where Athens' real greatness lies.

What should we learn from the previous wars between our great cities? What greatness did that conflict bring to us Greeks? What it did was weaken us. What it did was strip us of our finest men. What it did was turn us into barbarian savages, unworthy of our consideration of ourselves as the flowering of civilisation in its grandest form. What it did was allowed those barbarians from the North to strip us of our independence, our freedom.

I am for Athens, but I am for the Greeks. We, good men of Greece, must put aside these petty rivalries and work together. Athens will stand for nought unless it stands within its own power, but that power must be as part of a greater confederacy - of free Greek states, of free Greek men. While we turn toward each other and jab sticks at each other, the Makedonians will stand at our flank and jab spears at us. Our glory will come from our deeds, from the future results of our actions now. History will judge those who sought the appearance of glory over those who sought real Greek unity and success. Let us not repeat the errors of our past. Let us not fall into the power of barbarians because we cannot see or share our oneness as Greeks.

I wish to join your party, this is exactly the kind of ideals the Koinon Hellenon needs.

Also, I PROPOSE that we let the Alliance army come and help us, even if it is led by Areus.

[fireblade]

1) I PROPOSE we allow the spartan army to traverse our lands. Yes, the SPARTAN army.
II) I PROPOSE we do not ask for spartan help until they become more kind to us.
III) I PROPOSE we give them and unit standing either in Rhodoi or Chalkis, to the ally army, to show our support and willingness to cooperate.
IV) I PROPOSE we give a formal forgivness to Areus, yet still not allow him to run as a Strategos.
V) I PROPOSE we give a provisional seat to one of the spartan councilors and one of the korinthian councilors.
VI) I PROPOSE we give a formal apology to Sparte for our usurpation and ask for theirs too.
VII)I PROPOSE I go and apologize to the Spartan assembly about my very radical measures, even if it might cost me my life.

I, DISAGREE with motion II, IV, V, VI. Areus needs to redeem himself on the battlefield before having a chance at being forgiven. Also, the Athenian Council does not apologise, you can go and apologise in your name, councillor Leumenes, but on behalf of the Athenian Council, you can not. Also, why should we allow a spartan and corinthian seat on our council. There ambassadors can speak freely, but surely, we won't give them the right to vote! This city has been managed by athenian citizens for centuries now, are we suddenly not up to the task anymore?

I SUPPORT Motion I, III and VII
I also SUPPORT Walle's proposal

I PROPOSE
I) Our fleet to move and blockade the port of Demetrias.
II) To gather more intelligence in the region of Pella (as in, send the spy to the north)
III) To move, once Athens is liberated, the alliance army to a position threatening Demetrias, yet refrain from attacking it for now.

I myself will remain among the moderates, as I see merit in both other parties, but refuse to commit myself for now.

[Walle]

I AGREE with everything Fireblade said.

Also, I PROPOSE that we merge the Athenian army with the Alliance army, once the siege at Athenai has been fought. Then move north towards Demetrias, while we keep recruiting more men at Athenai.