What have the Romans ever (actually) done for us?

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

Here's the humour. Inspired by the song, it gave me the idea nonetheless: what -have- they -actually- done for us?

Things I can name of:
Aqueduct
Roman Law - A lot of it is still used (or taken reference to) today. Not just Britain (and her colonies) and Europe, even the yanks, bits of africa and even asia.
Romance Languages - All are forms of localized vulgar latin. Even english uses part french in it's lexicon.
Latin - We use it as the diplomatic tongue?

Anymore?

[Karel de Stoute]

I googled the question and this was one of the first results: they taught the world the very fashionable habbit of wearing socks and sandals: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...d-2062193.html

[QuintusSertorius]

All the roads and bridges built in Spain before the 20th century.

Roman Law - A lot of it is still used (or taken reference to) today. Not just Britain (and her colonies) and Europe, even the yanks, bits of africa and even asia.

No it isn't, Britain, much of the Commonwealth and the US have common law systems. Those are based on precedent of past cases, rather than reference to a central legal code, as civil law systems like Scotland and much of Continental Europe (courtesy of Napoleon) are.

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

No it isn't, Britain, much of the Commonwealth and the US have common law systems. Those are based on precedent of past cases, rather than reference to a central legal code, as civil law systems like Scotland and much of Continental Europe (courtesy of Napoleon) are.

It's true the common law system is based on past cases. But there's a trickle of these Roman Laws survived through Anglo-Saxon Law, whose rules served the early base of common law cases. In continental europe, the civil code used Roman Law as reference and it's basis.

[QuintusSertorius]

It's true the common law system is based on past cases. But there's a trickle of these Roman Laws survived through Anglo-Saxon Law, whose rules served the early base of common law cases. In continental europe, the civil code used Roman Law as reference and it's basis.

Again, that's not really accurate. Much of the law in Continental Europe used to be based on Roman law (up to the late 18th century), but it was absorbed and superceded by the Code Napoleon. Roman law is still in there in part, but it isn't the driving influence it once was.

[Duguntz]

NOTHING! Romans did nothing because They stole weaponry from celts and civilisation from greeks. so we owe much to THEM rather than to the Romans

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

NOTHING! Romans did nothing because They stole weaponry from celts and civilisation from greeks. so we owe much to THEM rather than to the Romans

But, as far as Britain and Western Europe is concerned, the Romans made better use of those weapons and civilisation than did the Greeks or Celts. The Greeks only established enclaves on the coast from which they traded to the locals, and the various Celtic tribes never stopped fighting each other long enough to build a stable, peaceful, prosperous empire.

That's why we have more traces of Roman language and civilisation than we do Celtic or Greek.

[Brennus]

Before anyone suggests them NOT ROADS! large wooden trackways had been in existence in northern Europe since the Bronze Age and in several places substantial wooden roads were already in use by the Celts before the Romans arrived. In addition to this the "Roman Road" as we know it is an Etruscan development which the Romans adopted.

[Karel de Stoute]

NOTHING! Romans did nothing because They stole weaponry from celts and civilisation from greeks. so we owe much to THEM rather than to the Romans

romans also made contributions to culture like in architecture or the art of making portraits

[Arjos]

What I find interesting is that almost all the "roman culture" was done by non-roman people ^^

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I think that the Roman's ability to learn from other cultures and absorb and build upon good ideas is what made them powerful and able to bring such large amounts of territory under their control for a long period. However, how they treated some of these same peoples is a different story entirely. That said the Romans were master imitators and were able to take a good idea and make it better.

[XSamatan]

Don't let this thread get into wrong directions.

Civilized and academic discussion is ok, but as soon as it comes to simple bashing...

[Atraphoenix]

in fact not the first but the concept of standing armies had effected many nations after her.
Think about janissaries.... until europe started to use their own standing armies they had no match for them.....
BTW for me ottomans were muslim romans... and nearly half of the janissaries were greek before their system became corrupted...

[CashMunny]

Ottomans were most certainly not Romans, or anything of the sort. They were central asian nomads who swept across Persia and Mesopotamia, as well as much of the Caucasus, migrated to Anatolia, conquered it, and settled there. Originally the Seljuq Turks or Great Seljuqs were rulers over the Turkish empire, but after Mongol invasions there were many tiny little Turkish states all over Anatolia, and Osman was Beylik of his Beydom in Northwest Asia Minor, expanded his Beydom and eventually the Ottomans became a world power after conquering Byzantium and Hungary, all the Black Sea Coast, Egypt, and more.

Romans made roads better, yes there were dirt tracks and cobblestone roads in a few places even, but nothing to compare with the roman highways that still survive and are used 2000 years later. They may have adopted much religion and culture from the Greeks, but they still retained purely Roman religion and culture as well, and were around a lot longer than the Hellenes. Byzantine Rome could be said to be more Greek than Roman in flavor, at least after 500 A.D., but they were not Hellenic Greeks in the same fashion as Aristotle and Pyrrhus, and still claimed to be Rome's Successor until 1453. The Romans did not build the first aqueducts, but they built the best and most effective aqueducts, and I believe they were the first to use aqueducts for individual household water usage. The Romans adopted certain battlefield equipment from Celts and Iberians, but this really does not matter too much. Celtic Helmets and shields were not groundbreaking enough that the Romans would have had trouble without using them, and Iberian weaponry was only adopted by the Romans because it was already similar to Roman equipment, and the Romans were doing just fine without the Iberian Gladius, since they had their own design. Yeah, new helmets and swords helped, but they didn't effect the Romans enough for it to be an issue, and besides, adaptability is a strength, not a weakness.

[Octavian I]

The Roman Empire adopted much from other countries, but in doing that, they passed Greek things over to "Barbarians" and "Barbarian" things to the Greeks. So especially culture and "civilized life" and such got spread through the whole Roman Empire. Maybe without the Roman Empire there would be even more difference between the specific cultures and countries?

[Lazy O]

THey had absoloutely no impact as far as Im concerned. HECK YEAH ROMANS GO TO HELL WE INVENTED THE ZERO :D

[Duguntz]

romans also made contributions to culture like in architecture or the art of making portraits

Absolutly not. sorry to contradict you, but mosaic, portrait, art, even their gods, were all (but two from etruscan orijins) was took from greeks!

[QuintusSertorius]

I can't remember where I first saw it said that a lot of the time in the ancient world the Greeks invented, then the Romans applied. There were all sorts of interesting Greek inventions* which were mere novelties with no thought as to what to actually do with the principles they represented or demonstrated. Then what followed were some very grounded and practical Roman thinking on making an everyday use out of the thing, thus underfloor heating, plumbing and so on.

*Such as the device that's two or three steps away from steam engines.

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

The Baths!

Their bathes were probably the first sauna/spa/jacuzzi! And not bad too, for only 2-3 denarii. :)

(how much stuff can the average pleb get for 10 denarii?)

[Ibrahim]

in fact not the first but the concept of standing armies had effected many nations after her.
Think about janissaries.... until europe started to use their own standing armies they had no match for them.....
BTW for me ottomans were muslim romans... and nearly half of the janissaries were greek before their system became corrupted...

well, the Janissaries had a different origin than that-nothing to do with standing armies of Rome. in fact, they were basically enslaved Christians (yes, usually greek) who were made into Muslims, and given a certain level of freedom at the price of serving in the army..they were of course as a reslt professionalized, as they had no other ties but to the Sultan himself (as opposed to the semi-feudal ties of other soldiers). of course, they ended up like the Praetorian guard.

muslims Romans? in terms of political effects and social ones within the empire, definitely. technology and culture itself? no. not totally. it's why Arabs still speak Arabic (ok, it's very different to say that in the 7th century, but you get the idea).

@ chasmummy: he was I suspect aware of all that: I think he was trying to compare the two.

[-Praetor-]

Roman Law - A lot of it is still used (or taken reference to) today. Not just Britain (and her colonies) and Europe, even the yanks, bits of africa and even asia.

No it isn't, Britain, much of the Commonwealth and the US have common law systems. Those are based on precedent of past cases, rather than reference to a central legal code, as civil law systems like Scotland and much of Continental Europe (courtesy of Napoleon) are.

That´s not entirely true. Both Civil Law and Common Law systems have a common denominator, meaning that both are at least in their origins heavily based on Roman Law. It does not mean that we still apply it, but when someone studies the Praetor´s Edicts one can find strong simmilarities with the fundamental principle of the precedent system of the Common Law, and when one studies the Codification process of the Corpus Iuris Civilis one can find immediate simmilarities with the Code Civil.

That´s just a draft, one could write books (as many already have) about the influence of roman law in both systems, and the reason why institutions like the "actio de in rem verso" can still be found in both systems.

[QuintusSertorius]

That´s not entirely true. Both Civil Law and Common Law systems have a common denominator, meaning that both are at least in their origins heavily based on Roman Law. It does not mean that we still apply it, but when someone studies the Praetor´s Edicts one can find strong simmilarities with the fundamental principle of the precedent system of the Common Law, and when one studies the Codification process of the Corpus Iuris Civilis one can find immediate simmilarities with the Code Civil.

That´s just a draft, one could write books (as many already have) about the influence of roman law in both systems, and the reason why institutions like the "actio de in rem verso" can still be found in both systems.

It's much more true to say the civil law has its roots in Roman law than the common law, which is not only a further step removed, but looks to a different place for its authority.

That they share common principles is as much because they were developed in parallel and attempting to achieve the same ends.

[VikingPower]

The greatest gift which the Romans have given us is the lesson about the human frailty based upon their history of empire.

Their civic virtue made them manage to aquire an empire, but its power and luxury made them stagnant.

Thay may have had much intelliegence in regard to technology but they neglected humanity as a fundamental issue for social reforms.

The reason why the Western culture has surpassed the Roman culture is because they did not cherish humanity after some other transient issues.

I hope we will not fall prey to the same neglegience.

[Maeran]

I suspect the greatest contribution of the Roman empire was given to us twice over. It was the idea of a greater state, over and above all the petty local divisions.

This vision of power (not original to Rome, see the Persians for the original copy) has gone through the ages and the minds of generations of warlords, kings and politicians and truly shaped our world.

On a second run, the Christian church used the same idea of an overarching power, via the papacy to unite disparate powers. This idea has led to scientific peer review and the united nations. And organised religion I suppose, but I'm not inclined to like that much myself.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

The greatest gift which the Romans have given us is the lesson about the human frailty based upon their history of empire.

Their civic virtue made them manage to aquire an empire, but its power and luxury made them stagnant.

Thay may have had much intelliegence in regard to technology but they neglected humanity as a fundamental issue for social reforms.

The reason why the Western culture has surpassed the Roman culture is because they did not cherish humanity after some other transient issues.

I hope we will not fall prey to the same neglegience.

I would agree with this; one might say that Rome gave us Capitalism. I mean Capitalism with a big C, not what is often passed off as being capitalism - trade. There was an elite in Rome whose wealth burgeoned with the expansion of the Republic's holdings, usually at the expense of the plebs. That eventually lead to the loyalty of armies to their paymasters, and so to the Principate. The Principate also lead to the linking of religious and secular authority, whereas previously there had been some distance between the two.

The elite saw, and used, the law as and when it suited them, and did not feel necessarily beholden to it - see the encroachment of public land, which the Gracchi (and others) attempted to address with land reform legislation. The pursuit of personal glory and wealth outstripped any notion of 'patriotism', and in pursuit of this the plebs were disenfranchised also.

Their expansion was based upon the enrichment of local elites, in whose interest it then was to uphold Roman authority. This is probably one of the reasons that the Germanic tribes were never really subdued, because there was an innate mistrust of too much influence falling into the hands of individuals within their cultures and societies. The same could be said of the Celts, but the assimilation of the noble class of the Aedui, and also of the powerful Arverni, into the trading interests of Rome weakened the Celtic/Gallic heartland.

We see such activities as high interest loans enforced upon provinces by wealthy factions within Rome's elite, tax-farming etc. Rome was all about utility, about everything being a factor of wealth; as you say here, it was about transient issues and paid little interest to humanity.

[SwissBarbar]

To "have done something for us" does not necessarily have to mean, that they invented things on their own (like Roads, weapons etc.) It can also mean, that they brought it to all of the known world by the growth of their empire, or that they evolved inventions of other peoples, or just: That they used other peoples inventions with success, while the other peoples didn't.

The romans undoubtedly hat a great influence on human history in Europe and even beyond. This can't be argued away even by those, wo do not like the romans.

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

I've been reading <The Hellenistic Age> By Peter Green. He argues that the diadochoi all have incredible technological and interlectual capabilities. However, these are all undermined by exhaustive wars, disfranchaising of substistance farming, piracy, and the ever burgeoning slave trade. Why use steam engines when you can use poor people and slaves?

In fact, Green suggests that it was within the interests of the Diadochoi to NOT implement these innovations (at least those that doesn't concern with sieges and war) into daily lives: replacing manual labour = more angry people = rebels. They already have their hands full dealing with each other, rebelleous natives/machimoi/greek poleis-krate. In fact, it's the fact they're too busy infighting that the keltoi invasions would be allowed to wreak so much havoc; that they would ignore the rising of the 'Barbaroi' in italia- The Romans.

What was originally perceived as Romans attempting to join the trading sphere of the Hellenes...by the time of Pydna,it was too late.

[Andronikos]

Yes, it's difficult to find something unique to Romans, because it had been invented by cultures before them, but they were able to expand it and they contributed to many aspects of life - politics, law, architecture, medicine, military... (they somewhat lacked in philosophy or mathematics, but I would say that they just liked practical things that could have been used immediately). Yes, Greeks had that, Celts had that, Etruscans had that, but Romans had all of it and better!

And by joining many nations and cultures under their rule and taking their best, they formed predecessor of common western culture. Something that Alexander and Diadochi wanted, but did not manage. That's why todays high school students learn about Alexander and Diadochi at one lecture and about Rome for months (at least I did).

But I still like Greeks and Celts more and I am a member of Romaioktonoi group.

[G. Septimus]

Absolutly not. sorry to contradict you, but mosaic, portrait, art, even their gods, were all (but two from etruscan orijins) was took from greeks!

Duguntz is right. Roman Gods were literally copies of Greek gods. not like they made it out.
but
Romans(Aeneas) were from Troy, that was fairly Greek.

Oh yeah, and I almost forgot:
Romans made early types of Pizza that they took from the Etruscans (and Romans were Etruscans Themselves)
I like Pizza

[Ca Putt]

right about the gods but:
the Aeneid is a myth that was mainly written to have an own great epic tale(btw Aeneas is probably the most pathetic classical hero that has been written about)
the trojans were not greeks, they were Hittites or at least were a vasal state of anatolian orgin, luwians or the like.
the early romans were mainly latins and sabines I've heard someone say that they were chalcidians but I doubt that one.
they actually got all their "civilisation" from the etruscans, as they picked out everything usefull that they were not able to come up with thereselves and left out those poisones by-producs that an advanced society comes up with eventually, exept for toilets, don't know why they left out on that. so while not explicitly beeing etruscans they were ruled by etruscans culturally and politically